Do some Cam Models use real Tinder dates to love scam them?

[MarieElise]

I agree. I hope you don't want say that I was exploiting. I was naive, yes. i was honest, I treated her very sensitive, and I cared for her. I asked her all the time if she feels well and that I can order an Uber as soon as she would want to go. Also, becoming sexual was at least as much motivated from her side then it was from my side. I always gave her room and space and she came to me and pushed it a little further. We were the almost the same age, optically on the same level (of course, my opinion...), and I didn't come with the intention to buy love or sex.


I can't agree more.

No you seem like a nice guy, and I think this situation is probably so much more complex than it even seems in this thread.

If I wanted to say I thought that of you I would say it. I think a guy that feels so confused he’s seeing a counselor and trying to find answers and closure (ie you), probably just got into something way over his head. And I really truly am sorry for the anguish and pain you are clearly experiencing. Genuinely.

 

[misterical]

It's not just the gringos either. Something as simple as taking a taxi there as a woman can be a bit sketchy. I've seen the contents of a friends handbag and I was horrified at some of the things she needed in there just to protect herself from taxi drivers.

 

[MarieElise]

It's not just the gringos either. Something as simple as taking a taxi there as a woman can be a bit sketchy. I've seen the contents of a friends handbag and I was horrified at some of the things she needed in there just to protect herself from taxi drivers.

All women everywhere have to do that.

 

[Vixxen81]

Guys trauma fucking dump on me all the goddamned time. I rarely do it back. But when I do, I always win.

 

[misterical]

All women everywhere have to do that.

Yeah. I didn't mean to play down the risk to women everywhere.

 

[MarieElise]

Yeah. I didn't mean to play down the risk to women everywhere.

Oh yeah I didn’t take it that way that you were.

Where I live in the US there are tons of parts of the city that are super dangerous for me to go into alone, even during the day, as a woman. I’ve had Togo into businesses before and ask the staff to tell men to stop following me. I can’t use public transport anymore, because men I don’t know, come and sit across from me and bar everyone else from sitting near me. Then get off at my stop, and start following me. I swear to God. That’s how bad it is being a woman everywhere. It’s scary as fuck!

Maybe not small wealthy towns, but everywhere else it’s bad.

 

[AussieCosplay]

I agree. I hope you don't want say that I was exploiting. I was naive, yes. i was honest, I treated her very sensitive, and I cared for her. I asked her all the time if she feels well and that I can order an Uber as soon as she would want to go. Also, becoming sexual was at least as much motivated from her side then it was from my side. I always gave her room and space and she came to me and pushed it a little further. It was like she wanted to absorb my love and caring energy and enjoyed it during our dates. We were the almost the same age, optically on the same level (of course, my opinion...), and I didn't come with the intention to buy love or sex. "Nobody ever has treated me as good as you do" "I just love how you treat me" "you are a good person", her words during our dates... Reminding me of a meme


I can't agree more.

They haven't said you were exploiting a situation but I will.
You may not know at the time but that doesn't negate the power imbalance that you have in this situation.
Naivete doesn't change underlying facts.

Also if you don't understand why sex tourism is problematic please do read up on it. It's problematic not just when it's pedophiles, but also when it's guys who are able to give free cards or financial benefits to women who are struggling to make ends meet or in a dangerous situation.

The power imbalances are HUGE.

Misterical, any man who decides to import a wife from a country where life is really hard should educate themselves and honestly THEY KNOW, they're just in denial. If she's 10yrs younger, looks after herself, in a shit situation and he's an older, overweight, white man with not much going for him in life ....they might want to believe that it's not a marriage of convenience but she's clearly not with him because of his personality. And he didn't go all the way to another country to get a hotty by accident, the local women can see through his shit and won't date him.

Denial is a strong thing.

And Sex Tourism is almost always exploitative of the locals where you're going. (Unless it's a wealthy country with decrim)

 

[MarieElise]

Yeah, to be fair women in general are not sitting around waiting for the perfect guy to come and fill the friends with benefits spot. Every guy is willing to fill that; married, single, all of them; we don’t need to sit around and wait for a foreigner to come do it. Theyre everywhere, everywhere we go, offering themselves up willingly, for that position.

I think sometimes guys can have a hard time understanding that. Because it’s not the same for you all. But for women, that’s how it goes. We don’t need to sit and scheme and plan our summers and be like “oh wow I wonder if the perfect friends with benefits guy will come along this Summer”. We already know that there are hundreds of them, right outside our front door, everywhere. We can pluck up pretty much whoever we want. And any guy that doesn’t believe that, is lying to himself. On the flipside if a woman has chosen to be devoted to you, then that is really cool, because she has literally chose you above thousands of other guys.

I kid you not as a woman you can literally go into a bar with one guy and there will still be three or four other guys hitting on you, regardless of the fact that you’re on a date with a guy that you came in with. It really is that easy for us.

 

[RainForest]

They may not want money, they may be after Green Cards (or equivalent if not US). This is a common (or at least not un-common) scam in Columbia. Having an American husband and baby really speeds up the green card process. These women are playing a long game as it will be years before they can dump their husbands without losing the green card. I thought we had a victim here in the past, but I can't find the post(s) now.

I hope the OP wore a condom he brought with him...

Where exactly did you get your "facts" about Colombian women and green card scams?

 

[RainForest]

sorry again. I mean I already said several times that I know that it was a bad decision using tinder but other than that I don't see a big problem/mistake in dating there, other than the risk of being drugged. I will not do it again as I said. I was 100% direct and honest while dating. I was treating her really good. I was naive, so yes, some bad decisions.


I mean I can tell more about it. But in general I poured a lot of love and attention into her. I could give more examples of what happened. I agree, it is always two sides. My intention of my post is to find out, if that could be a love scam or something else. I mean I was ready to give her anything (well, maybe not braindead sending money...), but it hurts when suddenly you are not good enough, you are being ignored for some days, you are breadcrummed with some little pieces of "love", getting more and more addicted until you get "discarded" as if the person never really cared. And she told me that she cares a lot, but it was only words. no actions. When I wanted something, like doing a video call (not sexual), it turned from being a good idea to a bad idea to a topic that is not even responded to, like ignored, within days.


She definitely suffers a lot. But she also hurt me a lot. She seemed to enjoy having control over my emotions. I am not here to point her out as the bad guy. I am here to find answers. And most answers are good and helpful. It is good to hear opinions about how it is in the cam-industry, how it is in Medellin and so on. I am trying to get closure. In my head I am talking to her every day and I try to move on and it gets better. It is just super hard. And it is not like with a regular heart break. It is a knot of "not understanding the situation" that I would like to resolve.

A therapist and a educator. I never specified what information I got from what source. So we talked about general behavior, not about narcissism. Some of the examples of what my therapist contact told me like 3 weeks after I have left Colombia: "She always creates one drama after the other for you to resolve" or "she always talks about that other guy she dated. If she does again, don't respond to it and see what she will do. It seems like she wants to trigger you somehow with it and uses you as the shoulder to cry on". And I always said "no it is just her being honest. we agreed on telling each other everything and I believe her. She was always honest".

One of the so far most helpful resources was the book Riemann - Grundformen der Angst [Basic Forms of Anxiety]

The fear of being drugged in Colombia is directly proportional to how much you allow racist idiots in the United States to influence your life.

 

[misterical]

They may not want money, they may be after Green Cards (or equivalent if not US). This is a common (or at least not un-common) scam in Columbia. Having an American husband and baby really speeds up the green card process. These women are playing a long game as it will be years before they can dump their husbands without losing the green card. I thought we had a victim here in the past, but I can't find the post(s) now.

I hope the OP wore a condom he brought with him...

OK. I don't want to be that guy. But I'm going to be that guy. That is such an American centric view of Colombia and indeed how some Americans tend to view the world at large. The assumption that everyone wants a green card because America is like some kind of paradise to Colombians/insert other nationality here/delete as applicable.

I will be the first to admit that I knew very little about Colombia before I ventured into the world of webcams. However, I've come to know quite a few Colombians as a result of my time with cams. They are incredibly decent people who work hard and are polite and friendly. Yes, the economy isn't great compared to other parts of the world and income is lower than some parts of the world, but so are costs. I could argue with you all day about how the cost of things seems much more realistic in Colombia than the overinflated prices we pay in Europe for instance.

None of the Colombians I know has any desire to move to America. They have access to some of the best healthcare and hospitals in the Americas, housing is affordable and the education system is good. They can send their kids to school without fear of them being slaughtered in the playground. The idea that all latinas are just human scambots just trying to get to America is insulting and simply the product of the racist rhetoric pushed by American political grifters.

If you don't know enough about the country to know that it is "Colombia" and not "Columbia" then maybe you shouldn't be here commenting on the virtues of it's women. Your comment about the condom was fucking shameful.

 

[AudriTwo]

I kid you not as a woman you can literally go into a bar with one guy and there will still be three or four other guys hitting on you, regardless of the fact that you’re on a date with a guy that you came in with. It really is that easy for us.

So fucking true. It doesnt even have to be a bar. I had some repair guy give me his personal number while my husband is home and ask me out. Men can be like freaking gnats

 

[cbhours]

None of the Colombians I know has any desire to move to America. They have access to some of the best healthcare and hospitals in the Americas, housing is affordable and the education system is good.

Visa wait times are like 2 years right now in colombia lots of them want to come to the US but many do have strong family ties and have never lived without family. Don't have the best hospitals or healthcare but if you know what procedure you want it's fine, you should probably have an idea of what the aftercare instructions should be though because things are a bit unorganized. Diagnosing and testing is weak and sometimes there's long delays for results. Mental health is pretty bad.

What do you mean education system is good? The public schools in some of the worst parts of the US blow away many of the private schools here.

 

[Slapstick]

Where exactly did you get your "facts" about Colombian women and green card scams?

Google "colombia love scam green card". You will find pages and pages of stories. All of them sound very similar to what the OP experienced.

OK. I don't want to be that guy.

Then don't be that guy. Where did I say that all models from Colombia are running scams? But the number is non-zero and Medellin is a hot spot.

BTW - I am not American and I know several people at Columbia University so occasionally mix the two.

Visa wait times are like 2 years right now in colombia

A model I know has been waiting over two years just for an interview at the US consulate. Not sure how long the process is after the interview.

 

[misterical]

Visa wait times are like 2 years right now in colombia lots of them want to come to the US but many do have strong family ties and have never lived without family. Don't have the best hospitals or healthcare but if you know what procedure you want it's fine, you should probably have an idea of what the aftercare instructions should be though because things are a bit unorganized. Diagnosing and testing is weak and sometimes there's long delays for results. Mental health is pretty bad.

What do you mean education system is good? The public schools in some of the worst parts of the US blow away many of the private schools here.

I can only go on the experience I have with the Colombians I know. One of them has some medical complexities and the level of care she receives is very good. In fact, the WHO rates the Colombian Health system considerably higher than that of the US and many developed European nations, being almost on a par with that of the UK. I know when it comes to comparing universal healthcare, it can be a bit like trying to tell the difference between turds but the fact of the matter is that it still ranks higher than that of many so called "developed" nations.

Like any user of universal healthcare, your experience may vary depending on how long the queue for your particular procedure is I guess.

 

[misterical]

Then don't be that guy. Where did I say that all models from Colombia are running scams? But the number is non-zero and Medellin is a hot spot.

I didn't say it was zero, but love scams happen the world over. Google can find information on scams from just about any corner of the earth. Medellin is a much bigger hotspot for gringos and sex tourists than it ever is for cam girl scammers.

 

[misterical]

Then don't be that guy. Where did I say that all models from Colombia are running scams? But the number is non-zero and Medellin is a hot spot.

And regardless of anything else, the condom comment was still disgraceful.

 

[cbhours]

In fact, the WHO rates the Colombian Health system considerably higher than that of the US and many developed European nations, being almost on a par with that of the UK.

I don't know anything about WHO rates but I assume it's something related to accessibility of healthcare?

 

[Deleted member 85132]

All of them sound very similar to what the OP experienced.

Well honestly, none of the stories I found was similar to mine. That is why I was asking. Mine involved a lot of push/pull, double psychology and I would again state it as a trauma-bonding cycle. But the interesting part is, she never told me that she loves me. Closest thing was "te quiero" one time when I first did a short contact-brake. But our agreement always involved that we both had to have other dates, that we don't know what the future brings and a lot of self-sabotage on her part. "This is no love story, we will never be together" followed by "i don't know what I think, I am confused, lots of contradictory thoughts" followed by "we could try something open" (open relationship). Or sentences like "I am the most disgusting person I know"... The self-sabotage just made me wanting to help even more. Also some emotional black-mailing. I said "if we want to be friends I need to get my feelings for you under control". She said "yes". I said "I don't know what to do, I should take a break (contact) to get my feelings under control" and she said "You know it better, if you take a break again I will block and delete you everywhere". Well, not a good thing to hear when you are emotionally so highly invested and kinda dependent. When it escalated in the process of me being discarded she told me "you should have worked harder on controling your feelings. I don't know if we ever have been friends."

Before anybody tells me again that I just want to hear she is a bad person. No I don't want to hear that. I know that she is suffering a lot. That is why I wanted to be good to her. But at the same time being pushed away and controlled (something I would identify as double-binds), is really really emotional damaging and hard. I couldn't take it anymore so I went away. And I still feel bad. Bad for her, bad for how it ended. Hoping everyday she reaches out to me - which I know it is stupid in every regard. I mean I was obsessed to some degree. I went to her cam-sites sometimes, not to be a fan or customer, but because I was so trapped and of course, tried to find some truth or control like "what is going on?". And noticing that I thought: "what if she wants me to just go to her sides? To become her simp that pays her one way or another?" "What if it is a dark-psychology scam?" "What if I am actually not chatting with her but her cam-studio or other accomplices?"

(Edit: Not that it is bad to be a cam-model or a fan/customer. It was just that I thought that we both wanted a "real friendship and real dates")

Yes, it is a conspiracy on my part. yes, it is unlikely. But as I can not get the thoughts out of my head or find answers in stories on the internet I thought I would ask here. Maybe someone knows something.
I think she is just chaotic in a way and was confused of what she wants, it was nice to have control over me and my feelings, but she was also honest enough not to make false love confessions. Only things like "i am afraid that I might feel too much, thats why I sometimes just go away and don't text". While at the same time she needed me to stay in that stage of control so that I would be an emotional backup option while she has all her freedom.

 

[AussieCosplay]

I have a USA citizenship....I don't live there.
No man in my country has ever even wanted a green card from me....including the one I was engaged to...he did want an Australian permanent residency though lol.

USA is literally the only developed nation without proper healthcare.
The water isn't drinkable in many parts.
Kids are murdered in shools.

I think I'd rather move to Colombia tbch.

 

[misterical]

I don't know anything about WHO rates but I assume it's something related to accessibility of healthcare?

Apparently this:

The quality of healthcare is determined by considering a wide range of factors, including the care process (preventative care measures, safe care, coordinated care, and engagement and patient preferences), access (affordability and timeliness), administrative efficiency, equity, and healthcare outcomes (population health, mortality amenable to healthcare, and disease-specific health outcomes).

 

[misterical]

I have a USA citizenship....I don't live there.
No man in my country has ever even wanted a green card from me....including the one I was engaged to...he did want an Australian permanent residency though lol.

USA is literally the only developed nation without proper healthcare.
The water isn't drinkable in many parts.
Kids are murdered in shools.

I think I'd rather move to Colombia tbch.

I would agree with you.

 

[cbhours]

If you wake up with bad abdominal pain and you have the choice between a Colombian hospital and a usa hospital (not factoring in cost) you better pick a usa hospital. You'll be diagnosed much faster, you'll be charged an arm and a leg for it but it's the safer bet.

In Colombia I've never had a boil water advisory each time there was a line break it was fixed and sometimes I wasn't even notified. I wouldn't trust it more than usa water.

followed by "we could try something open" (open relationship).

...I thought you are the one that suggested that?

she said "You know it better, if you take a break again I will block and delete you everywhere". Well, not a good thing to hear when you are emotionally so highly invested and kinda dependent.

Why did you invest after only 5 dates though, next time invest after living together for 3 months xD

 

[Slapstick]

I didn't say it was zero, but love scams happen the world over. Google can find information on scams from just about any corner of the earth. Medellin is a much bigger hotspot for gringos and sex tourists than it ever is for cam girl scammers.

I know love scams happen all over, but we are talking about a specific case that happened in Medellin Colombia. Aussie asked why someone would bother when "you can just log on and men give you money". I simply pointed out that money is not the only object and it may be a green card scam.

And regardless of anything else, the condom comment was still disgraceful.

Oh grow up. If you were so offended by that comment then maybe the internet isn't the place for you.

 

[Deleted member 85132]

...I thought you are the one that suggested that?

Well, after her saying "we could try something open" I replied "You mean an open relationship?" she: "yes". I: "okay then we have an open relationship now, then I will call you my novia from now on" she: "yes you can make it official". So in case I was not clear before, thats how it happened. Still, never told me about she loves me or anything. Per chat of course...

Why did you invest after only 5 dates though, next time invest after living together for 3 months xD

I learned my lesson. If that would have happend to me in Europe, I would have quit earlier. But I thought I am in the position to help her.

I told her during our dates "I want to be friends and see you again some day, but I don't want us to be needy for each other and not a long-distance relationship". She agreed on it and said that is what she also wants and it makes sense.

Well, one week later her trauma-dump started and I felt so much empathy for her that I wanted to help her, couldn't think of anything else. She always came back to those topics that hurt me and made me emotionol in the following weeks: making me jealous, making me worried, making hints of her going deeper and deeper into the sex-work that -- she made me belief she hates so much but she has no other options. So like I said, trauma-bonding. And I believed her. During our dates she appeared to be quiet and shy but lovingly and needy of love, very empathic and kind. That was my perception of her. And that is why I turned my defense down and became more and more sentimental and invested. But the longer we had contact, the more she went rude, silent (like stonewalling) and guilt-tripped me. Lots of "red flags" that she slowly started to show more and more... But while I was more and more trapped in the love-trauma-bond, until it was too much and I "woke up".

I mean 5 dates are not a lot but they were intense and close. And we chatted every day and it felt very intimate and like a strong bond. Again, I don't want to label her, but what I wrote in the last two posts is what covert-narcisissts would do according to my research to some extend. It would be a fitting explanation. But again, not here to find that out, I am here to find out if it could be a planned, structured scam, maybe involving a team.

 

[Marceline]

OP, a few things.

1. I don't think her being a cam model is relevant to any of this. You didn't meet through a camsite. She straight up told you she didn't want you to go to her cam room. You met through a dating app and none of the issues you've had with her are connected to her status as a cam model/sex worker imo.

For example, these two things:

On some days she told me how bad she feels and how worried she is, like her vibrator broke or how much debt she still has. But she never asked for money or came back to the same problem / topic.

- For her it would be a great opportunity to go out, getting a free meal (saving groceries) each date and having a fun time, while on the long run if her dates like me catch feelings she might can profit of it

Neither of these are exclusive to cam models/sex workers.

I've seen it countless times on this forum where a guy brings up how a cam model complained about her finances, and even if she didn't ask for money, he still thinks it is a covert scam where she's playing mind tricks so that he can give her money. Then has the nerve to claim she's a friend or that they care about each other. Like sure, maybe sometimes it's some kind of covert money grab. But honestly, friends complain to friends about money. If I have a big, unexpected bill come up, I'll bitch about it to someone I'm close with. It doesn't mean that I want them to pay that bill or give me money, just means I wanted to vent.

And for the second one, I've had quite a few friends irl, none of who ever did sex work, who used dating apps simply to get free meals. Or used dating apps so they could find a guy who they could date who would then financially take care of them so they wouldn't have to work. It was actually kind of common, where I'm originally from, for women to want to find a man who would be the sole breadwinner so she could be a stay at home girlfriend/wife/mother. And vice versa, it was pretty common for the men to want to find a woman who would keep the house tidy and have a hot meal cooked for him when he got home from work. This is mostly because oil rig/refinery jobs are pretty common and those guys make really good money, but they also work insane hours. But I digress, people using dating sites to "profit" in one way or another isn't exclusive to cam models. People just prefer to not think about the transactional aspect of a lot of relationships.


2. I'm not trying to be an asshole by saying this, but I think you're the main problem here.

I was 100% honest from the beginning, I was only short term there and I told her I wanted to be friends, but no long-distance relationship and I didn't want us to be needy for each other. I wanted her to date other men and I was worried that she might feel too much for me.

When she told me about her job as a cam model after I left and that she basically has a very sad life, I felt so bad that I couldn't think about anything else but her. So I fell in love

You told her in the beginning that you didn't want anything serious and that you didn't want to do long distance or to be needy. You completely flip flopped on that. Sure, there's times when a fling or hookup situation can turn into something more serious, but I know for me personally, if a guy tells me right at the beginning he doesn't want a serious relationship, that's how the relationship gets categorized in my head from there on out.

I also think it's concerning that you "fell in love" only after she told you about her life problems. If you had said that the two of you had such an amazing time while you were physically with her, that it was so fun and romantic you couldn't help but fall in love at that time, that'd be one thing. But, it seems like you were more in love with the idea of being her savior than you actually were with her.

I was addicted to her

I noticed how my confidence got completely attached to her "love"

I mean I was obsessed to some degree.

All of this is extremely worrisome, and indicates there's problems that you need to work on within yourself that in the end, don't actually have anything to do with her. Healthy, stable people don't get to this level over someone they went on a couple dates with and slept with a few times. I'm sorry to say this, but if it wasn't with her, there more than likely would have been another woman that would have brought about these same issues within you. Keep doing therapy, but instead of focusing on her, focus on you and how to not fall into these same pitfalls.

Even though she told me not to go to her cam-sites, you could find her by googling her whatsapp profile picture and most other pictures from her social media. At one point I even admitted that I found her profiles and she guilt tripped me again.

I went to her cam-sites sometimes, not to be a fan or customer, but because I was so trapped and of course, tried to find some truth or control

This is extremely fucked up. You disrespected her boundaries and invaded her privacy. Not everyone realizes that their cam persona can be found if they use the same pictures on their cam sites as they do their personal social media sites. A lot of cam models don't like to mix their private life with their work life. There's safety/privacy issues as well as the fact that it can just be plain uncomfortable knowing that someone you know irl is watching you while you work. Honestly, I would block anyone in my personal life if they disrespected my boundaries this badly.

3. Sometimes people do things that we don't necessarily understand and we may not ever understand. Instead of wracking your brain trying to figure out "why did they do this?" instead think "why am I reacting this way?" The answer to the latter isn't always so cut and dry like it may seem. But, I'll try to help you understand some things.

Also some emotional black-mailing. I said "if we want to be friends I need to get my feelings for you under control". She said "yes". I said "I don't know what to do, I should take a break (contact) to get my feelings under control" and she said "You know it better, if you take a break again I will block and delete you everywhere".

I wouldn't say this is necessarily emotional blackmailing. Sorry, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but give blunt and honest feedback, you seem like you came off as extremely needy, which can be tiring and off-putting. The fact that she said "If you take a break again" makes it seem like you brought up taking a break multiple times before. I'd respond similarly to how she did. I can see how that comes off as a threat, but honestly, dealing with someone who constantly needs "space" or a "break" is exhausting and I'd be like "Okay, do it. But, I'm tired of this back and forth so it'd be better for both of us to just cut contact completely". I know some people may see that as immature, but honestly, I think it's more mature to completely cut ties when a situation becomes toxic than to keep some avenues of communication open.

I could not understand how she disposed me so quickly after I thought I was important to her and she was so important to me. And that is messing with my head a lot.

Things just happen this way sometimes. No matter how you met, the circumstances surrounding the situation or previous feelings. Like I said in the previous paragraph, when some people are done they just want to be completely done and move on.


And for my final note:

When it escalated in the process of me being discarded she told me "you should have worked harder on controling your feelings. I don't know if we ever have been friends."

I 10000% agree with the part of that quote I bolded. It doesn't seem like you were actually, genuinely friends with her.

She started off as someone you met on Tinder while on vacation. You went on a few dates and slept together. You told her that you didn't want a serious relationship, that you wanted her to date other guys, that you didn't want her getting too attached. Only after you left and she told you more about her life problems, you "fell in love". You became "addicted" and "obsessed", per your own words. You say you cared about her, but it seems to me like you cared more about the way she made you felt (or could have made you feel if you were able to "rescue" her). I think had she been a happy go lucky girl with no big problems, or if you had been able to "rescue" her in the way you thought you could, you would have lost interest.

I don't think any of this makes you a bad person. However, I do think that you need to work with a therapist to find out the root of these issues, work on your savior complex, so that you can eventually be in a happy, healthy, non-codependent relationship.

 

[MarieElise]

OP, a few things.

1. I don't think her being a cam model is relevant to any of this. You didn't meet through a camsite. She straight up told you she didn't want you to go to her cam room. You met through a dating app and none of the issues you've had with her are connected to her status as a cam model/sex worker imo.

For example, these two things:





Neither of these are exclusive to cam models/sex workers.

I've seen it countless times on this forum where a guy brings up how a cam model complained about her finances, and even if she didn't ask for money, he still thinks it is a covert scam where she's playing mind tricks so that he can give her money. Then has the nerve to claim she's a friend or that they care about each other. Like sure, maybe sometimes it's some kind of covert money grab. But honestly, friends complain to friends about money. If I have a big, unexpected bill come up, I'll bitch about it to someone I'm close with. It doesn't mean that I want them to pay that bill or give me money, just means I wanted to vent.

And for the second one, I've had quite a few friends irl, none of who ever did sex work, who used dating apps simply to get free meals. Or used dating apps so they could find a guy who they could date who would then financially take care of them so they wouldn't have to work. It was actually kind of common, where I'm originally from, for women to want to find a man who would be the sole breadwinner so she could be a stay at home girlfriend/wife/mother. And vice versa, it was pretty common for the men to want to find a woman who would keep the house tidy and have a hot meal cooked for him when he got home from work. This is mostly because oil rig/refinery jobs are pretty common and those guys make really good money, but they also work insane hours. But I digress, people using dating sites to "profit" in one way or another isn't exclusive to cam models. People just prefer to not think about the transactional aspect of a lot of relationships.


2. I'm not trying to be an asshole by saying this, but I think you're the main problem here.





You told her in the beginning that you didn't want anything serious and that you didn't want to do long distance or to be needy. You completely flip flopped on that. Sure, there's times when a fling or hookup situation can turn into something more serious, but I know for me personally, if a guy tells me right at the beginning he doesn't want a serious relationship, that's how the relationship gets categorized in my head from there on out.

I also think it's concerning that you "fell in love" only after she told you about her life problems. If you had said that the two of you had such an amazing time while you were physically with her, that it was so fun and romantic you couldn't help but fall in love at that time, that'd be one thing. But, it seems like you were more in love with the idea of being her savior than you actually were with her.







All of this is extremely worrisome, and indicates there's problems that you need to work on within yourself that in the end, don't actually have anything to do with her. Healthy, stable people don't get to this level over someone they went on a couple dates with and slept with a few times. I'm sorry to say this, but if it wasn't with her, there more than likely would have been another woman that would have brought about these same issues within you. Keep doing therapy, but instead of focusing on her, focus on you and how to not fall into these same pitfalls.





This is extremely fucked up. You disrespected her boundaries and invaded her privacy. Not everyone realizes that their cam persona can be found if they use the same pictures on their cam sites as they do their personal social media sites. A lot of cam models don't like to mix their private life with their work life. There's safety/privacy issues as well as the fact that it can just be plain uncomfortable knowing that someone you know irl is watching you while you work. Honestly, I would block anyone in my personal life if they disrespected my boundaries this badly.

3. Sometimes people do things that we don't necessarily understand and we may not ever understand. Instead of wracking your brain trying to figure out "why did they do this?" instead think "why am I reacting this way?" The answer to the latter isn't always so cut and dry like it may seem. But, I'll try to help you understand some things.



I wouldn't say this is necessarily emotional blackmailing. Sorry, I'm really not trying to be an asshole, but give blunt and honest feedback, you seem like you came off as extremely needy, which can be tiring and off-putting. The fact that she said "If you take a break again" makes it seem like you brought up taking a break multiple times before. I'd respond similarly to how she did. I can see how that comes off as a threat, but honestly, dealing with someone who constantly needs "space" or a "break" is exhausting and I'd be like "Okay, do it. But, I'm tired of this back and forth so it'd be better for both of us to just cut contact completely". I know some people may see that as immature, but honestly, I think it's more mature to completely cut ties when a situation becomes toxic than to keep some avenues of communication open.



Things just happen this way sometimes. No matter how you met, the circumstances surrounding the situation or previous feelings. Like I said in the previous paragraph, when some people are done they just want to be completely done and move on.


And for my final note:



I 10000% agree with the part of that quote I bolded. It doesn't seem like you were actually, genuinely friends with her.

She started off as someone you met on Tinder while on vacation. You went on a few dates and slept together. You told her that you didn't want a serious relationship, that you wanted her to date other guys, that you didn't want her getting too attached. Only after you left and she told you more about her life problems, you "fell in love". You became "addicted" and "obsessed", per your own words. You say you cared about her, but it seems to me like you cared more about the way she made you felt (or could have made you feel if you were able to "rescue" her). I think had she been a happy go lucky girl with no big problems, or if you had been able to "rescue" her in the way you thought you could, you would have lost interest.

I don't think any of this makes you a bad person. However, I do think that you need to work with a therapist to find out the root of these issues, work on your savior complex, so that you can eventually be in a happy, healthy, non-codependent relationship.

This is a fucking wonderful post. OP pay attention to it.

 

[Deleted member 85132]

I do think that you need to work with a therapist to find out the root of these issues, work on your savior complex, so that you can eventually be in a happy, healthy, non-codependent relationship.

I agree to some degree. But now I need to defend myself again. It is always a 2-way thing. Like you said, co-dependent. But what you are missing in your post, is the other partner of that co-dependency. Like Trauma-Dumping while telling you "Look at all the other dates I have that are better than you" but shortly after "i miss you so much" "this other guy is only playing with me" (I stayed because I was a friend and not a lover at that point, but the jealousy and push/pull affected my emotions of course. It was much more but that was one core part at the start). And "did you fall in love? well, if you were it would be so beautiful, i never thought that could happen on this app".-> This is some crazy manipulation. Playing the victim is manipulation. Not stepping away and thinking "I can help" is naive and you are right with that, will also become toxic.

Its my fault I fell for it. I fell for it because it was a different culture and she came from a poor, abusive background (sorry. But it is true). And me having the instinct to want to help is toxic? Yes my fault is not seeing those red flags and not stepping away immediately. But covert-binds are so cruel because the person is disguised. They play a role to get public recognition as a good person, play the victim and slowly drop the mask to control you, bind you and hurt you. They want you to make mistakes, they want you to step on their toes so that they can guilt trip you. So of course, my texts are one-sided. But yours is the opposite, it is also one-sided.

Lets say she was pretty covert-narcissistic (just as a assumption and a point of view to bring to the argumentation, no diagnosis). Before you tell me that I am to blame for everything, look up what they are capable of and what they are actually doing. They surprise you, they overwhelm you. You don't even know that something like this exists until it's too late. Toxic behavior always brings forth toxic behavior in the other person. They start a toxic cycle unless one person steps away. One toxic reaction followed by another. Very passive-agressive. Until the love-bombing comes back (which does not necessarily mean someone saying "I love you"). By the way her quote about her ex boyfriend: "we both destroyed each other". She left home with 18 years old because "it was hell" "her mother beat her" "her father left when she was a small child" "they had sometimes not enough food" "she lived with her aunt for most". She comes from a toxic environment. It is just the fact, if it was not all lies. And when they unleash that toxic environment upon you, you also get more and more toxic. The co-dependency starts. It was after three months that I quit because I could not handle it anymore and I noticed how toxic everything became. I gave her full control over my feelings and she knew it and played with it. A person with empathy would not play with other peoples emotions and control them in that sense. While she COMPLETELY ignored all my needs. Don't forget the part of the story where she didn't invest anything in me other than liking stuff I post or send her, remaining basic contact "how are you? what are you doing?" But I was not even worth it that she looks up a song she liked and sends it to me (closer to the end but during a non-toxic conversation).

I am a very empathic person, we all are very different. That is why being a rescuer is attractive to me. Some can relate more to her, some maybe more to me. But don't leave out the fact that covert-toxic tactics can easily affect many "healthy" people that are strongly empathic. They know perfectly how to push your buttons and turn everything against you. They want you to bring out reactions and make mistakes to use those against you. Don't forget that.

Yes, I felt attacked by the fact that you wrote only from her perspective. Maybe I deserved it because I obviously am not objective as it is my story and I am telling it. But yours is also not objective. I also set boundaries she never respected. But she made it that I felt like it was my fault, that my boundaries were egoistic, and I felt was to blame so it was ok that she did broke them. Until it was walking on eggshells for me. She never reflected on her behavior and only reacted on things to bring the blame to me again, while I addmited my fault

My original post was never about me wanting to blame her or wanting to know who is to blame. It was about: "Can there be dark psychology love scams in the colombian cam-industry involving real Tinder dates?". But of course I also feel the urge to defend my view. I probably should never have started the topic in the first place.

Thank you for your response and honest opinion though. Everybody at least seemed very clear about that it is not likely that it was a scam, only a co-dependent psychologically fked up situation. I am really grateful for everyone listening and responding. It was really emotional for me, but I think I really found some more closure. Thank you.

 

[Marceline]

I agree to some degree. But now I need to defend myself again. It is always a 2-way thing. Like you said, co-dependent. But what you are missing in your post, is the other partner of that co-dependency. Like Trauma-Dumping while telling you "Look at all the other dates I have that are better than you" but shortly after "i miss you so much" "this other guy is only playing with me" (I stayed because I was a friend and not a lover at that point, but the jealousy and push/pull affected my emotions of course. It was much more but that was one core part at the start). And "did you fall in love? well, if you were it would be so beautiful, i never thought that could happen on this app".-> This is some crazy manipulation. Playing the victim is manipulation. Not stepping away and thinking "I can help" is naive and you are right with that, will also become toxic.

Its my fault I fell for it. I fell for it because it was a different culture and she came from a poor, abusive background (sorry. But it is true). And me having the instinct to want to help is toxic? Yes my fault is not seeing those red flags and not stepping away immediately. But covert-binds are so cruel because the person is disguised. They play a role to get public recognition as a good person, play the victim and slowly drop the mask to control you, bind you and hurt you. They want you to make mistakes, they want you to step on their toes so that they can guilt trip you. So of course, my texts are one-sided. But yours is the opposite, it is also one-sided.

Lets say she was pretty covert-narcissistic (just as a assumption and a point of view to bring to the argumentation, no diagnosis). Before you tell me that I am to blame for everything, look up what they are capable of and what they are actually doing. They surprise you, they overwhelm you. You don't even know that something like this exists until it's too late. Toxic behavior always brings forth toxic behavior in the other person. They start a toxic cycle unless one person steps away. One toxic reaction followed by another. Very passive-agressive. Until the love-bombing comes back (which does not necessarily mean someone saying "I love you"). By the way her quote about her ex boyfriend: "we both destroyed each other". She left home with 18 years old because "it was hell" "her mother beat her" "her father left when she was a small child" "they had sometimes not enough food" "she lived with her aunt for most". She comes from a toxic environment. It is just the fact, if it was not all lies. And when they unleash that toxic environment upon you, you also get more and more toxic. The co-dependency starts. It was after three months that I quit because I could not handle it anymore and I noticed how toxic everything became. I gave her full control over my feelings and she knew it and played with it. A person with empathy would not play with other peoples emotions and control them in that sense. While she COMPLETELY ignored all my needs. Don't forget the part of the story where she didn't invest anything in me other than liking stuff I post or send her, remaining basic contact "how are you? what are you doing?" But I was not even worth it that she looks up a song she liked and sends it to me (closer to the end but during a non-toxic conversation).

I am a very empathic person, we all are very different. That is why being a rescuer is attractive to me. Some can relate more to her, some maybe more to me. But don't leave out the fact that covert-toxic tactics can easily affect many "healthy" people that are strongly empathic. They know perfectly how to push your buttons and turn everything against you. They want you to bring out reactions and make mistakes to use those against you. Don't forget that.

Yes, I felt attacked by the fact that you wrote only from her perspective. Maybe I deserved it because I obviously am not objective as it is my story and I am telling it. But yours is also not objective. I also set boundaries she never respected. But she made it that I felt like it was my fault, that my boundaries were egoistic, and I felt was to blame so it was ok that she did broke them. Until it was walking on eggshells for me. She never reflected on her behavior and only reacted on things to bring the blame to me again, while I addmited my fault

My original post was never about me wanting to blame her or wanting to know who is to blame. It was about: "Can there be dark psychology love scams in the colombian cam-industry involving real Tinder dates?". But of course I also feel the urge to defend my view. I probably should never have started the topic in the first place.

Thank you for your response and honest opinion though. Everybody at least seemed very clear about that it is not likely that it was a scam, only a co-dependent psychologically fked up situation. I am really grateful for everyone listening and responding. It was really emotional for me, but I think I really found some more closure. Thank you.

It wasn't my intention to attack you, but to give you a different perspective on the situation. You seem very caught up on being the "victim" in this whole situation, while glossing over the things you have said in this thread that jumped out to me as problematic. I'm not taking her side and my post was meant to be as objective as possible.

I don't think being empathetic or wanting to help someone is toxic. What is toxic is when you "fall in love" with someone not because of the fun times you've had together, but because you had a strong reaction to hearing about their trauma. That is not a normal reaction. And like I said, it is worrisome that you yourself admitted to becoming obsessed and addicted. No matter how empathetic a person is or how manipulative the other person is, if they are healthy and stable, they will not have that type of reaction. You apparently spent many hours researching narcissistic traits/psychology to try to "understand" this situation. You went so far as to search out her cam sites and then lurked in her room, despite her asking you not to. Even if she crossed your boundaries, it doesn't excuse you crossing hers. If she doesn't want to reflect on her behavior, that's on her. That doesn't mean you also shouldn't reflect on the way you reacted to all of this.

Also, you're very caught up on her not investing in you or giving you the attention you wanted. However, you two weren't in a relationship. You wanted her to date other men. You told her you didn't want her feeling too strongly about the situation. You can't be mad that she gave you what you initially wanted. You laid out the expectations and she followed them. You were not owed any attention from her. If she trauma dumped on you without any warning or without you asking, yes, that's not okay. It's not cool when someone unloads on another person without considering how it will make them feel. However, I just don't think it's reasonable to get so upset that someone you're not in a serious relationship with, isn't giving you the attention they would give a serious romantic partner.

One of my favorite saying "You can't control how people act, only how you react." And I think that's very fitting to this situation.

In the end, you posted the full story on here. If you wanted to simply know "Can there be dark psychology love scams in the colombian cam-industry involving real Tinder dates?" You could have asked without going into the minutiae of your situation. But you did, so people are going to give you more feedback, since this is a discussion forum.

One last thing, but I'll put this in a spoiler since it's very, very heavy/dark:

Spoiler: Narcissism/Suicide TW

I think it's a bit messed up to even insinuate someone is a covert narcissist and that they're a horrible person like that. OP, if you're reading this, even though you say you weren't trying to make her out to be the bad person, you did do that and anyone who looked at this thread from an objective perspective could see that. My honest opinion based off what you've said, is that she acts like a lot of 20-something year olds. Dramatic and probably a bit self absorbed. But like I said, that's kinda how a lot of younger people are these days. This behavior is kinda praised and seen as a quirk on Instagram and TikTok. Is it okay? No. Does that mean it's not toxic? No. But, to insinuate someone has a deeply fucked up personality disorder isn't okay.

I've known ONE person who was a genuine narcissist. Like, genuine personality disorder, down to her bones troubled.

That person drove her daughter to suicide after years of mental and physical abuse.

That same person years later took her own life, and in the process purposefully set it up so that her son (who she hadn't been on good terms with) would find her body. She also tried to hurt as many people as she could before and even with her suicide.

It gets tiring seeing people complain about somewhat toxic behavior and equate it to behavior such as what I just described. That's not to say that what you went through wasn't hard on you and that you're not entitled to your hurt feelings. You have every right to be hurt and upset, I'm not trying to diminish that. That's why I said, you should continue talking to a therapist. However, instead of talking about solely this situation, recognize what it is inside of you that drew you to falling for someone who exhibited toxic behavior and work on that so that it won't happen again in the future.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Yeah, to be fair women in general are not sitting around waiting for the perfect guy to come and fill the friends with benefits spot. Every guy is willing to fill that; married, single, all of them; we don’t need to sit around and wait for a foreigner to come do it. Theyre everywhere, everywhere we go, offering themselves up willingly, for that position.

I think sometimes guys can have a hard time understanding that. Because it’s not the same for you all. But for women, that’s how it goes. We don’t need to sit and scheme and plan our summers and be like “oh wow I wonder if the perfect friends with benefits guy will come along this Summer”. We already know that there are hundreds of them, right outside our front door, everywhere. We can pluck up pretty much whoever we want. And any guy that doesn’t believe that, is lying to himself. On the flipside if a woman has chosen to be devoted to you, then that is really cool, because she has literally chose you above thousands of other guys.

I kid you not as a woman you can literally go into a bar with one guy and there will still be three or four other guys hitting on you, regardless of the fact that you’re on a date with a guy that you came in with. It really is that easy for us.

I’ve been in a bar with a boyfriend, and when he’d stepped out for a minute…some creep came up to me and asked “Is that your boyfriend? Do you two take showers together?” Wtf.