Was I Out Of Line?

[mutantdonut]

Meh!! When in business for yourself, I find set prices a little overrated. A topic that reads: "Vids for sale, pm me for prices" then negotiate when they do may actually generate more interest. I am not saying sell your b/b/b/b/b/g gangbang vid for 20 tokens obviously. But a vid you think is worth 300 tokens is probably ok for 200 as well. Coming from the travel industry, I can tell ya that no one pays the same rate, and the employee is never to discuss one customers rate to another, nor is the employee to say it out loud. So, I would also require this tip, when made, to be suppressed from the others in the room. I believe in camming/nerd lingo we call these "ninja tips". Maybe you'll sell 5 of these at 200 and make 1000 rather than just 1 at 300. If by chance the member decides to be funny and tell the room what he paid anyways...dont worry about it. Maybe others will pm ya looking for the same rate and ya sell more vids..who knows. Those who paid more...just tell them thanks again. If youre worried that your vid might be going out to too many people, just realize that the moment you send it out once..youve sent it out 1000 times...more even!!

You hafta consider the seller.

You, the customer, want the best deal for yourself is understandable, but the seller is only willing to put up so much, as the business of haggling can be a headache. Remember, models deal with a myriad of stupid bullshit, and haggling just adds to that.

It’s also been established on this forum that haggling is also a cultural thing in other nations. With that said, set-pricing and the idea of haggling as disrespectful is also cultural thing, which is what many of us here are accustomed to. You don’t walk into Walmart attempting to negotiate the purchase of a TV. So don’t haggle if it’s gonna irritate the hell out of the seller. The business has every right to set their standards, which includes never bending to the will of the customers.

 

[RogueWarrior]

I want to make it clear that in the OP I was not haggling over the price of anything. I was simply trying to get the name of band, there was nothing set about that kind of info.

As far as haggling goes, in the real definition of what goes on, I don't do it. I don't buy content, but in the respect of tokens for song requests, flashes, countdowns, spins, whatever, I don't do it. That's the price? OK. I'll pay it or I won't. I'm not there to be a business adviser. I'm there to have fun. If the fun factor is cost prohibitive to me, I'll move on. Have a great session.

If a model has priced herself out, that's none of my business. If she can't figure it out? That's on her. There are resources, like this site, available.

To stay with the theme, if a model wants to set a price of 250 tokens for a song request, if she gets it, good for her. Not getting it from me. But I'm not going to try to haggle the price down. For one thing, how do I know that the model did not intentionally out-price something that she didn't really want to do, but would if the payment was enough?

 

[PunkInDrublic]

prostitute negotiating with a John

I've seen dudes haggling with women in red light districts before and I don't know man, just weird to me. In the middle of crowded tourist areas and dudes just standing in the street trying to get a deal is something that always blows my sheltered American mind. Not something I'm interested in or even allowed to do, but potentially annoying/disrespecting someone who is about to be handling your genitalia doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[Nordling]

prostitute negotiating with a John

I've seen dudes haggling with women in red light districts before and I don't know man, just weird to me. In the middle of crowded tourist areas and dudes just standing in the street trying to get a deal is something that always blows my sheltered American mind. Not something I'm interested in or even allowed to do, but potentially annoying/disrespecting someone who is about to be handling your genitalia doesn't seem like a good idea.

Yeah, same with food handlers. I'm always as polite as possible with people who are about to touch food that I'm going to eat.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

@RougeWarrior I don't think you did anything wrong in the OP! That model sounds a bit greedy or confused. I even sell my playlist (the list, not the songs themselves) and Id still tell someone the name of a song. My comment was geared toward the haggling debate this turned into.

 

[RogueWarrior]

@RougeWarrior I don't think you did anything wrong in the OP! That model sounds a bit greedy or confused. I even sell my playlist (the list, not the songs themselves) and Id still tell someone the name of a song. My comment was geared toward the haggling debate this turned into.

I know. Nothing was directed at you. Just clarifying and adding.

 

[NicoleRiley]

Re: Haggling

I personally find haggling insulting. In the past week I've had a few VERY insulting offers.

Example: I was having a half off solo content sale. I also have a 37 min HD G/G video listed at 500 tkns, yes that's a lot, but the other model and I agreed on a set price. Someone asked me if I'd sell the G/G video and a solo video (list price before the sale was 200 tkns) for 300 tkns. I'm sorry, but that's insulting. You want 700 tkns worth of videos for less than half the price?? Nope. :naughty:

I think it's especially insulting for those of us who allow double dipping with tokens. If you're getting tokens off the countdown and a video I think my prices are more than fair.

(edit because words are hard)

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Yeah, same with food handlers. I'm always as polite as possible with people who are about to touch food that I'm going to eat.

The worst is when you're with a buddy at a drive thru and he acts like a douchebag while ordering. Why give people a reason ya know.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I want to make it clear that in the OP I was not haggling over the price of anything. I was simply trying to get the name of band, there was nothing set about that kind of info.

From her perspective you were haggling. There are two aspects to haggling one is the price and the other is content. I'll pay 500 tokens for g/g video if you throw in a solo video is haggling. You wanted both a song request and the band name, that is two fer. In theory, you should have tipped when you requested the name. In practice of course its silly. I think throwing the haggle word out is code for being a dick, which for me would be the point I'd move on.

 

[RogueWarrior]

I want to make it clear that in the OP I was not haggling over the price of anything. I was simply trying to get the name of band, there was nothing set about that kind of info.

From her perspective you were haggling. There are two aspects to haggling one is the price and the other is content. I'll pay 500 tokens for g/g video if you throw in a solo video is haggling. You wanted both a song request and the band name, that is two fer. In theory, you should have tipped when you requested the name. In practice of course its silly. I think throwing the haggle word out is code for being a dick, which for me would be the point I'd move on.

Technically, sir, you are correct. Thanks for pointing that out. That's why I initially threw that out here.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I want to make it clear that in the OP I was not haggling over the price of anything. I was simply trying to get the name of band, there was nothing set about that kind of info.

From her perspective you were haggling. There are two aspects to haggling one is the price and the other is content. I'll pay 500 tokens for g/g video if you throw in a solo video is haggling. You wanted both a song request and the band name, that is two fer. In theory, you should have tipped when you requested the name. In practice of course its silly. I think throwing the haggle word out is code for being a dick, which for me would be the point I'd move on.

If she didn't have a set price on asking questions, I don't see how anyone could consider that haggling.

Oh, and I'll get to your first post later.

 

[Jillybean]

Rogue-I don't think you did anything wrong. This thread turned into a haggling discussion when HiGirlsRHot brought it there.

In my experience (on SM, C4S, and in general in other industries) the people who haggle are USUALLY the ones who will take up the most time, and are also the hardest ones to close a sale with. And somehow after all the work you've put into the deal, you walk away with less than you were comfortable with and feeling like you wasted time.

In camming, I never haggle. Ever. If you want to haggle, find another girl who's willing to. Because that's not what I do. And if I lose a potential sale, I have enough business that I'm fine with that. Everything has value. The time and effort it takes to haggle is valued much higher than the money being dangled in front of me. :twocents-02cents:

 

[bsurs]

[...]
Models understandably complain when guys put them on pedestals. Yet the reason given on why negotiate is somehow verboten with camgirls, is it is a special profession and the intimate nature makes it wrong to negotiate. I am baffled why camming is more intimate than prostitute negotiating with a John, a porn star negotiating pay for a scene with the producer, or Stripper negotiating what goes in the private room. I'd be happy to reconsider my position if someone would explain what makes camming unique.
[...]

I don't think anyone here said that reason not to allow haggling was because of the "intimate nature" of camming.

Anyway, in all the other examples you mention, there is a single consumer for the service being performed. Also, the negotiation occurs before any work on the seller's part. The seller can adjust based on the negotiated price.

In the case of a model selling a (non-custom) video, the seller is providing the exact same thing to multiple consumers. Also, the work is already done. (In response to someone asking for a 20% discount on a video, I saw someone joke that the model should provide the video with 20% cut out.)

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

Anyway, I really meant to quote the post and mention what I think is the problem with what it suggests.

I many cases (I would guess most cases) the models consider their prices for things to be set and not subject to negotiation. Some consider it insulting to try to haggle about it. Sometimes they'll offer special deals, but usually, they will post it in the topic, say it public chat, or tweet it if they do, and it's going to be an equal amount for every person that goes for the deal.

The biggest problem though is, even if haggling were considered okay, it would disrupt the flow of her room with everyone else sitting bored while someone tried to work out a deal. Nobody's going to tip for the privilege of seeing someone else try to buy a video, and any conversation, game, show, etc. would have to grind to a halt. That's bound to cost the model something and make her members enjoy their time there less. It's just not something that makes sense for the models.

I think some models will negotiate on certain things like Skypes or custom stuff, but that's generally done privately in order to avoid disrupting the room.

I agree in public chat it is disruptive. However, Rogue said he PM her and didn't sound like the room was super busy.

I didn't think Rogue was trying to negotiate at all. He didn't even realize (and understandably so) that there was anything to negotiate (and we're still not sure that there was). As I understood him, he asked the name of a song (not uncommon) and for whatever reason the model didn't want to tell him (which seems weird since it's a perfectly civil and impersonal question). He, generously in my opinion, offered to tip for more songs if she'd tell him, and she didn't like that. Perhaps she took that to be negotiation. It's not clear what she thought.

I appreciate that many models like Megan find it insulting. I find off-putting that models are insulted by anything that appears to be haggling like in this case. If you don't want to negotiate a simple "I don't bargain" or my prices are my fixed is fine. If the guy persist by all means be insulted or ban him. But to me to be insulted when someone simply offers you a price lower than you are asking, displays a thin skin. It is not a good lesson to learn in your life beyond camming.

Nobody likes to have their prices questioned, but the flip side is that nobody likes to be ripped off. The negotiation process is allows both buyers and sellers to reach a compromise both sides can live with. Now I agree if the model is selling videos for 25 tokens and you offer 15 trying to get to 20 that is just dickish. But many camgirls service represent several hours of labor for the buyer, to be insulted simply cause the guy is trying to save himself an hour of OT, for the video you made and already sold 40 times... I don't get it.

Models understandably complain when guys put them on pedestals. Yet the reason given on why negotiate is somehow verboten with camgirls, is it is a special profession and the intimate nature makes it wrong to negotiate. I am baffled why camming is more intimate than prostitute negotiating with a John, a porn star negotiating pay for a scene with the producer, or Stripper negotiating what goes in the private room. I'd be happy to reconsider my position if someone would explain what makes camming unique.

Finally , I'd point out that any many cultures it is an insult to not haggle with seller. So the Qatar prince would be insulting you if he didn't try to negotiate even if he is worth 100 million.

As to the cultural issue, that's actually kind of one of the points here. There exists, as we see on this forum, what amounts to a camgirl culture. In that culture, the majority considers it rude to haggle. And in their rooms, we're basically on their turf, so we follow their customs. If a particular model has "customs" that piss us off, we go somewhere else (or that's what we should do, anyway).

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Anyway, I really meant to quote the post and mention what I think is the problem with what it suggests.

I many cases (I would guess most cases) the models consider their prices for things to be set and not subject to negotiation. Some consider it insulting to try to haggle about it. Sometimes they'll offer special deals, but usually, they will post it in the topic, say it public chat, or tweet it if they do, and it's going to be an equal amount for every person that goes for the deal.

The biggest problem though is, even if haggling were considered okay, it would disrupt the flow of her room with everyone else sitting bored while someone tried to work out a deal. Nobody's going to tip for the privilege of seeing someone else try to buy a video, and any conversation, game, show, etc. would have to grind to a halt. That's bound to cost the model something and make her members enjoy their time there less. It's just not something that makes sense for the models.

I think some models will negotiate on certain things like Skypes or custom stuff, but that's generally done privately in order to avoid disrupting the room.

I agree in public chat it is disruptive. However, Rogue said he PM her and didn't sound like the room was super busy.

I appreciate that many models like Megan find it insulting. I find off-putting that models are insulted by anything that appears to be haggling like in this case. If you don't want to negotiate a simple "I don't bargain" or my prices are my fixed is fine. If the guy persist by all means be insulted or ban him. But to me to be insulted when someone simply offers you a price lower than you are asking, displays a thin skin. It is not a good lesson to learn in your life beyond camming.

Nobody likes to have their prices questioned, but the flip side is that nobody likes to be ripped off. The negotiation process is allows both buyers and sellers to reach a compromise both sides can live with. Now I agree if the model is selling videos for 25 tokens and you offer 15 trying to get to 20 that is just dickish. But many camgirls service represent several hours of labor for the buyer, to be insulted simply cause the guy is trying to save himself an hour of OT, for the video you made and already sold 40 times... I don't get it.

Models understandably complain when guys put them on pedestals. Yet the reason given on why negotiate is somehow verboten with camgirls, is it is a special profession and the intimate nature makes it wrong to negotiate. I am baffled why camming is more intimate than prostitute negotiating with a John, a porn star negotiating pay for a scene with the producer, or Stripper negotiating what goes in the private room. I'd be happy to reconsider my position if someone would explain what makes camming unique.

Finally , I'd point out that any many cultures it is an insult to not haggle with seller. So the Qatar prince would be insulting you if he didn't try to negotiate even if he is worth 100 million.

I'm writing this after putting some special lotion on my skin to make it thicker for you.

Being insulted does not mean you have thin skin. It's how you handle it and how it effects you, that shows how thick/thin your skin is.

Ex:
A troll comes in a models room and says, "you're fat."
The comment was made to be negative, therefore insulting.
The model can ban the guy and laugh it off, showing she has thick skin.
Or she can cry and log off, showing she had thin skin.
Either way, she was insulted, but her ACTIONS towards the insult is really all that matters.

I've never let haggling effect my performance on cam, therefore, I don't think it's fair to insinuate I have thin skin.
Honestly, I'm shocked that anyone could think I have thin skin. Especially someone, like yourself, who has seen me deal with trolls many times in a good manor.

"Nobody likes to be ripped off."
SO GO TO A DIFFERENT ROOM where the prices seem more fair to you!
If you REALLY believe a model is ripping people off, WHY THE FUCK would you want to be apart of that room???

As for the other types of sex work, I think they are exactly the same thing. I would be equally offended if I was a prostitute and a guy tried to haggle with my vagina price. There is no difference.

Now, with that being said, I think there is a slight difference between negotiating and haggling.
The time where I think negotiation is appropriate, is usually when the model herself brings it up. Another time may be when the model is very familiar with the member and the member has been generous or loyal to her.

 

[HarmlessSquirrel]

Ex:
A troll comes in a models room and says, "you're fat."

Most trolls would probably say "your fat."

 

[AllisonWilder]

In the case of a model selling a (non-custom) video, the seller is providing the exact same thing to multiple consumers. Also, the work is already done. (In response to someone asking for a 20% discount on a video, I saw someone joke that the model should provide the video with 20% cut out.)

I don't really understand the 'work is already done' logic. Like, if I went into a store to buy a DVD I couldn't try to get it at a lower price since the work is already done and all they'd have to do is scan it and hand it over, I'd have to pay whatever it's listed at, despite my preference to pay less, or I wouldn't leave with a DVD.

I don't find haggling/negotiating insulting at all, but I do find it incredibly annoying because as it has already been mentioned, it's a waste of time. I might make a sale or two that way, but I'd rather not have to jump through hoops trying to make a sale and potentially drive away other members while I focus on negotiation.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Just a suggestion for members who want to negotiate but not piss off the model.
IMO, it's best to let HER come up with the number.

For example:
"I was looking into possibly purchasing all of your videos at once, what would you charge me?"
This lets the model know you're looking for a discount, but doesn't put pressure on her to actually do it. She can just add them up and reply with the full amount, or give you a discount.
After that, take it, or don't. Don't bargain with another number.

"Can I get all of your videos for 5,000tokens even though they add up to 8,000tokens?"
That number might be too low for the model and she could find it insulting. Then it starts feeling like a yard sale where you bargain back and forth.

 

[LilyEvans]

Not something I'd personally ever do, but I can see why some guys would haggle, or attempt to. Videos, pic sets and the like aren't physical products and they don't (typically) cost the model anything (other than her time and effort) to manufacture (I'm assuming things like cameras, lighting, costumes, toys, etc. are things they already have and aren't buying specifically for the videos) and distribution is free, so it's impossible for a model to lose money on this content (generally speaking) and whatever they sell at, it's all profit for the model. So with no manufacturing/distribution costs, model's content is either priced in line with the market or another pricing strategy is used, which no doubt will make complete sense to the model, but to the buyer may as well be completely arbitrary. "Your video's 750 tokens? Why not 700? Or 500?". And just like that, you have a haggler, who you can either ignore, or enter into the haggling process with.

Emphasis mine. There's a reason they say "time is money". If I spend three hours making a video that's $150-$300 I could have made live camming in the same amount of time. I would never expect anyone to go to work for a lower wage and then tell them they aren't out anything because all they spend was time and effort. ( I don't necessarily think that's the sentiment you're trying to convey, Bob, just throwing in my :twocents-02cents: .)

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not something I'd personally ever do, but I can see why some guys would haggle, or attempt to. Videos, pic sets and the like aren't physical products and they don't (typically) cost the model anything (other than her time and effort) to manufacture (I'm assuming things like cameras, lighting, costumes, toys, etc. are things they already have and aren't buying specifically for the videos) and distribution is free, so it's impossible for a model to lose money on this content (generally speaking) and whatever they sell at, it's all profit for the model. So with no manufacturing/distribution costs, model's content is either priced in line with the market or another pricing strategy is used, which no doubt will make complete sense to the model, but to the buyer may as well be completely arbitrary. "Your video's 750 tokens? Why not 700? Or 500?". And just like that, you have a haggler, who you can either ignore, or enter into the haggling process with.

Emphasis mine. There's a reason they say "time is money". If I spend three hours making a video that's $150-$300 I could have made live camming in the same amount of time. I would never expect anyone to go to work for a lower wage and then tell them they aren't out anything because all they spend was time and effort. ( I don't necessarily think that's the sentiment you're trying to convey, Bob, just throwing in my :twocents-02cents: .)

If it's a video the model only intends to sell to one person (like an exclusive custom), then I agree. Generally though, videos are intended to be sold to as many people as possible, which is what makes spending those hours making a video as opposed to being online ultimately worthwhile (or not, depending how many videos she ultimately sells). I'm essentially just playing devil's advocate at this point though. Personally, I think haggling over content is a bit tacky, but looking at things completely objectively and stripped of all that empathy stuff, I can see how members who aren't interested in models on a personal level and view them solely as service (or in this case, content) providers , could easily justify haggling for a better price.

 

[Poker_Babe]

I am baffled why camming is more intimate than prostitute negotiating with a John, a porn star negotiating pay for a scene with the producer, or Stripper negotiating what goes in the private room. I'd be happy to reconsider my position if someone would explain what makes camming unique.

All of the sex workers I've known have always considered it to be bad etiquette to haggle with them over prices. The biggest complaint I hear about hagglers from sex workers are that the hagglers usually end up being "boundary pushers". I'm not saying that you or anyone one else here that tries negotiating with us are boundary pushers, just that is usually the complaint I hear about the most.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I actually don't negotiate that much and very little with camgirls. I understand lots of people are uncomfortable negotiating, and if you don't want to do it as either a buyer or seller I understand perfectly. But I think if you go through life being insulted anytime somebody offers less than price you want, you are going to spend a lot of your life feeling hurt.

I'm overly aware of this, but my twitter feed has plenty of posts from models complaining about guys trying to negotiate. I've heard models rant about it in public chat, and gotten plenty of PMs from models venting about it. Megan has used the expression "yard sale" a couple of times in this thread. I'll point out there is some really nice stuff at yard sales often with sentimental value. Folks who hold yard sales who get insulted at low ball offers and have a bad experience. Maybe I'm getting you wrong but the implication is that your videos, content, panties etc. is somehow different than stuff at a yard sale and my and other people behavior should be different than at a yard sale. All business complain about cheap customer trying negotiate every last dime out them. It just seems to me unique camgirl culture that merely the act of negotiating seems to be taken as an insult.

Obviously successful camgirls don't have thin skin. I am constantly amazed how few girls complained about being asked to anal fist themselves, while barking like a dog,and covered in chocolate pudding. More often they seem to find it funny and not insulting. But suggesting that something is too expensive, or perhaps including the name of band in addition to a song request is considered insulting I do find it to be too thin skinned. More importantly I think the attitude is counter productive for making money.

I'd think in general camgirls don't get much useful feedback (the bb you look so hot, and marry me is good for the ego but not much else). If nobody every complains about your price, than odds are your prices are too low, and if people constantly complain than they maybe too high. We have to stigmatized even asking about price so heavily that camgirls are basically camming blind. Is my camscore dropping because my prices are too high or too low? good luck figuring that out.

Yes, the haggler who doesn't buy is both a time waster and source of frustration. I think there maybe a bit of chicken and egg of problem. If you spent more than few months on the site and certainly on the forum. You get the messages don't haggle. So I am imagine at the this point the only guys who try to negotiate are the deliberate time wastes,newbies, or guys who are just really dense. The rest of us if we don't like the price,we simply leave the room resulting in a lose lose situation for both model and the member.

Regular merchants as well as people provide a service have regular opportunity to get feedback on price. From the subtle, "I like but its out of my price ranges", to the blatant "you realize Amazon has almost the same thing for 1/2 the price, and the direct I'd like to use your services Mary, but your bid was 50% more expensive. Internet merchant have amazingly sophisticated tools for learning about pricing. How do camgirl get similar feedback?

Back to the OP. The camgirl who pissed off RogueWarrior, lost a potentially valuable tipper. We all agree intentionally or not she came across greedy. How does she learn from her mistake? I submit that once she invoked " "I'm not here to haggle" i.e. you insulted me she lost any opportunity to learn.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Back to the OP. The camgirl who pissed off RogueWarrior, lost a potentially valuable tipper. We all agree intentionally or not she came across greedy. How does she learn from her mistake? I submit that once she invoked " "I'm not here to haggle" i.e. you insulted me she lost any opportunity to learn.

Well I'm of the opinion that she most likely isn't interested in learning if she acts that like. And if she does decide to start doing some research into what can make her better at cam modeling, chances are she'll come across this forum and start learning from the other girls here. She may even come across this thread and learn from it.