Suggestions for models from members

[IsabellaSnow]

And..... what I try and say and end up rambling for a whole page and completely falling off subject mynameisbob said in one short neat paragraph... with bullet points! Bob you're awesome! That is so it!

 

[Jessi]

Sort of off topic but I just wanna raise my hand and say I got my expensive phone second hand from a teenager whose dad made him sell it to pay off the enormous phone bill :lol:

 

[JerseyAnne]

Sort of off topic but I just wanna raise my hand and say I got my expensive phone second hand from a teenager whose dad made him sell it to pay off the enormous phone bill :lol:

Bahahaha! Epic.

 

[Evvie]

The OP's not the devil. I don't think his post was intended to offend anyone and I'm (relatively) sure that if he was to come back and participate in threads that don't focus on pointing out all the instances where a cam girl is doing her job "wrong", then this thread would be forgotten pretty quickly.

Here be the problem(s) with these threads (bulletpoints!)

- They're unsolicited. And unsolicited advice is rude, ya know?
- They assume that they're highlighting things that the majority of cam girls are unaware of, when that's generally not the case.
- They assume that cam girls lack the ability to seek out member advice independently and must have it thrust upon them if they are to succeed, which is generally not the case.
- They assume that what one member likes and wants to see and will tip for applies to all other members, which is not the case.
- They assume that cam girls don't already have access to a veritable shit-load of advice from models and other members available to them at the click of a button, which is also not the case.

It's not that member advice isn't valuable. It is. If members don't like what a cam girl is doing, they likely won't succeed. But there's a time and place to give that advice, ya know? Which is when you're directly asked. Otherwise, just keep it to yourself and console yourself with the notion that the majority of cam girls are already well aware of whatever nugget of invaluable information you feel you've stumbled upon. :twocents-02cents:

I just went and counted up every guide I've written, and it came out to forty thousand words - and that only includes the guides I was able to easily find. This excludes the time I spent making graphics and animated GIFs to help explain a subject, and it excludes all the posts I have made in response to threads I did not start. It excludes every single other guide or helpful post every other model has written. We have a LOT of information available to us - and this is only on ACF. I've written half a Harry Potter book full of advice (at least) and that is why it is frustrating to hear members say, "Oh, well I couldn't find any help at all for new models, so let me take it upon myself to enlighten you".

I do not want to offend any members, but I do not believe the advice members can give is as useful or valid as the advice models can give to each other.

Casually observing a few professional entertainers does not qualify you to give advice to all professional entertainers, and the fact that you are a fan does not mean your advice is "just as good as" the advice professionals can share amongst each other.

I think member advice can be extremely useful. I think that if a model wants to know what one specific member likes, she better ask him because nobody else could know better than he. I think that the average member can certainly share valid comments like, 'excuse me, model I am currently watching, but your audio is blowing out my speakers.' It is another thing all together to find a forum and say, "sit down, ladies, and get taught: Turn down your mic, and I'm going to repeat this because it's important, TURN DOWN YOUR MICROPHONES".

I get extremely irate at these threads because I'm tired of it. Being told how to do my job over and over by people who have no experience or understanding of what I have to deal with is grating. The majority of members who make these threads seem to have very little real understanding of what it takes to be a model, and I have never yet seen a collection of 'member advice' which did not contain incorrect or harmful information.

I understand what other people are saying - that the OP did not intend to be offensive, or rude, or that he just wasn't cognizant of what he was doing. I stand by all of my original statements regarding this - I am out of sympathy for people who waltz in to an industry and start barking out orders because they think we need their advice to survive.

 

[Shaun__]

I do not want to offend any members, but I do not believe the advice members can give is as useful or valid as the advice models can give to each other.

I am not offended by this in any way. I do not understand men or women, and I still often find myself thinking about my own actions to better understand my deeper motivations.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

When talking about members coming to acf to give advice to models to a regular the other day he piped up and said something along the lines of:

"well I do think it's important and there should be somewhere you can get all this feedback and information from every member! I mean do you speak to every member who buys your videos afterwards? Do you mail them offering them other videos? What about all those guys who tip you once and never come back? Why are they not coming back? It'd be good to find out why they didn't come back. Do you keep track of all the members who buy your videos? What about all the members who come to your room and never tip/leave? Why are they leaving?" The list went on....

Result: Super paranoid/upset camgirl sat in the corner horror struck, hugging her knees and shaking repeating "I never want to cam again" over and over again.

Unfortunately this member seemed oblivious to the fact that I add every member who buys videos onto my friendslist. Meaning I see when they're online, many of them I will pm afterwards just to chat and ask if they enjoyed the videos. Sometimes full time mfc members don't seem to get that the average mfc member pops on maybe once a week, sometimes once or twice a month when they're bored. They turn up, they tip, they chat, have fun and then continue with their lives. Most members do not spend day in day out obsessing over myfreecams. Pretty much I do have a vague idea of why members tip once and don't come back. Could be a number of things, but things I cannot really do too much about.

Best thing to do is focus on the members who do continue tipping you, work out what they like about you and why those people have stayed and play more on those things. Camming is a stressful job, focusing on the negatives is not good.
I mean this member might as well have turned around to me and said "and what about your split ends? What about the chub on your belly, and yeah, lets think about cellulite for a second... and what about the way your breasts aren't completely perky? Have you thought about these things before you get into a bikini? what about all those people who don't find you attractive, who'd rather have a skinnier girl. Let's just focus on all the negatives about yourself" Someone would have to be made of steel to not be given that little speech and not feel like curling in a ball and crying. Camming's not much different. Telling a girl everything that's wrong about her work and what she does wrong and then expecting her to get on cam, perform and be happy and sexy in front of 100's of strangers feeling like nothing she's doing is good enough? Don't be silly.

As Evvie said, member advice is often harmful, if the advice isn't personal to you then don't give it. Do not act like you know what members like and want about a certain model better than the model herself.

 

[Just Me]

I think many of these posts would go over much better if they were more transparent. Meaning, this is what this particular member feels is important to keep just THEM in the room. Rather than trying to make it a general advice post for all models, if it is couched as personal suggestions for that particular member, maybe we would not end up with pages of "how dare you tell me how to do my job" posts. :lol:

I might be giving the posters too much credit. Can they really have so much hubris to think these type of suggestions would go over well? Or narcissistic enough to think that what they like would apply to keeping the most tipping members in a models room? The more I think about, the more I think I am giving them too much credit.

Let this thread be a warning to future posters. :lol:

 

[mynameisbob84]

I do not want to offend any members, but I do not believe the advice members can give is as useful or valid as the advice models can give to each other.

Casually observing a few professional entertainers does not qualify you to give advice to all professional entertainers, and the fact that you are a fan does not mean your advice is "just as good as" the advice professionals can share amongst each other.

I think member advice can be extremely useful. I think that if a model wants to know what one specific member likes, she better ask him because nobody else could know better than he. I think that the average member can certainly share valid comments like, 'excuse me, model I am currently watching, but your audio is blowing out my speakers.' It is another thing all together to find a forum and say, "sit down, ladies, and get taught: Turn down your mic, and I'm going to repeat this because it's important, TURN DOWN YOUR MICROPHONES".

I would look at it thusly:

For the purposes of this analogy, models are filmmakers and members are the audience, yeah?

If you want technical advice when making your film, you'll go to other filmmakers for that advice. If you want advice about how to structure your film, shaping the narrative, defining the characters, you'll consult your fellow filmmakers again. If you want advice about distributing and marketing your film, once again, you'll consult your fellow filmmakers.

Once your film is in theaters, if you want to know what your audience liked or didn't like, or what they want to see more of, then you'll need to consult your audience.

The only thing members can comment on with authority, is what they do or do not like. And that's important, as if you're not on the same wavelength as the members you're trying to entertain, they won't tip. But for literally everything else, models are gonna be better equipped to provide advice than members will be :twocents-02cents:

 

[DudeExtreme]

here is my conclusion based on all those years of research and enjoyment: i don't know jack spit about BEING a model. and with my intellect, education and capabilities if i can't say that i do, then sure as hell no one who doesnt do it can, so nyah

I believe you understand a great truth: the more we think we know, the less we know.

He who thinks he has obtain all knowledge has no knowledge at all--MegansDude, Spring 2013

 

[Throbbin_One]

Certainly I'd be afraid to make any suggestions in this thread... :shock:
However, some of the models here are generalizing as much as the OP did. A member doesn't know 'our' industry. I think this is a little naive, imo. I think some models assume that all members are idiots, and treat Women badly. Heck, I'd be willing to bet I've been a member of MFC longer then anyone in this thread.

I guess my point is that Malek probably won't be coming to your room anytime soon, and he COULD be the next 100,000 tip you get, who knows? Maybe I COULD be, who knows. I don't think he said anything that bad, and I could link 10 posts I've seen here of models making fun of members that was worse.

I guess I will stick to what I said as well, and be surprised at some of the responses Malek has gotten.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I do not want to offend any members, but I do not believe the advice members can give is as useful or valid as the advice models can give to each other.

Casually observing a few professional entertainers does not qualify you to give advice to all professional entertainers, and the fact that you are a fan does not mean your advice is "just as good as" the advice professionals can share amongst each other.

I think member advice can be extremely useful. I think that if a model wants to know what one specific member likes, she better ask him because nobody else could know better than he. I think that the average member can certainly share valid comments like, 'excuse me, model I am currently watching, but your audio is blowing out my speakers.' It is another thing all together to find a forum and say, "sit down, ladies, and get taught: Turn down your mic, and I'm going to repeat this because it's important, TURN DOWN YOUR MICROPHONES".

I would look at it thusly:

For the purposes of this analogy, models are filmmakers and members are the audience, yeah?

If you want technical advice when making your film, you'll go to other filmmakers for that advice. If you want advice about how to structure your film, shaping the narrative, defining the characters, you'll consult your fellow filmmakers again. If you want advice about distributing and marketing your film, once again, you'll consult your fellow filmmakers.

Once your film is in theaters, if you want to know what your audience liked or didn't like, or what they want to see more of, then you'll need to consult your audience.

The only thing members can comment on with authority, is what they do or do not like. And that's important, as if you're not on the same wavelength as the members you're trying to entertain, they won't tip. But for literally everything else, models are gonna be better equipped to provide advice than members will be :twocents-02cents:

Okay might as well do a twofer here. I think maybe both of you are wrong, or at least have gone overboard in your thinking.

Evvie I realize most of the advice given by members is just as you described, given by people that just don't have a clue. And that can lead to that way of thinking very easily. But there can be valid advice from members who have seen more than the average model and have put some thought into things. You're pointing to people who casually observe a few models and using them to judge every member's opinion not worthy. I'd like you to think about the other extreme of the situation for a bit. There are members who have actually been 'observing' (i like that word so much better than perving) for quite some time and have noted several valid ideas that could genuinely be considered good advice.

One narrow example of what I am talking about: raffles. In the two years I've been on MFC I've probably seen over 1000 raffles done (not an exaggeration unfortunately). I've seen tickets sold at every price point for prizes ranging from a handwritten letter to new laptops and beyond with everything imaginable in between. They've run on time frames spanning from mere minutes to months. Basically I've seen more variations on raffles than I can even guesstimate right now at this late hour. Through talking to the models holding those raffles I've also learned which ones were working and which ones were slow to get people buying. And just to add to the mix, yes, I have ran a few raffles in my day as well. Some of which have not been done by any model that I've seen. (charity events and such).

If a model were to ask me for advice on raffles I think I could provide it just as good as other models, better in many cases where the other models may be new or not much exposure in that area. I'm not trying to raise hackles with this statement, but think about the opposite of what you say up above. I've seen and had experience with thousands of raffles, and have run them in my life. The average model that's been in the business for a couple years has done maybe a couple dozen at most? Maybe a few more. I could argue the point that my advice would be better than the models advice you rely on exclusively. I'm not trying to argue about it so don't take offence, I'm merely playing devil's advocate there and going in the opposite to the extreme to illustrate a point.

What makes my advice on the subject less valid or not as good? And this can apply to a whole slew of subjects. I know you're in the business. But members can have experiences related to various subjects and can provide insight based on their experiences that could prove just as useful.

And now to mynameisbob84's analogy on the film industry, and this relates into my above statements.
If you want advice on film making yes you do of course go to other film makers, but don't forget that REALLY long list of credits at the end of the movie. If you want advice on every aspect of film making then you also need to talk to the guys who JUST do lighting, and the team that JUST does computer effects, and the ones who do electrical rigging, and special effects..... That whole 8 minutes of credits, all those people, they all need to be consulted too. After all the guy who makes the exploding blood squibs may not know jack shit about film making but he can make the gunfight in your film look a lot better now can't he? Every one of those people who may not know anything about film making DO know their own field and can bring a skill or perspective to the project to make a better film.

Do you get the extended analogy? All those non-related areas of expertise can contribute to make a better whole.
Basically my point there is that by limiting what advice you wish to hear you really limit a lot of potential good advice. The diversity that people in other walks of life can bring shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand because we aren't models.

I've learned that from going back to college for Petroleum Engineering. If I have a question about petroleum, the overwhelming odds are I won't actually be talking to another petroleum engineer at all. Instead I might be talking to a geologist who can find the oil field in the first place, or the drilling company who drills the wellbore, the hydro team who comes in and hydraulically fractures the reservoir, or the offshore oil rig company who makes the platforms that I would have to rent by the day, or the guys who make the drill bits to get down there, or the pipeline company who hauls away the oil to the refinery , or..... The list is INCREDIBLY LONG filled with people outside of the petroleum profession who would be able to contribute in a very positive way to my job.

Just because a member isn't a cam model does not mean his (or her) advice cannot be useful in a meaningful way.

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

Certainly I'd be afraid to make any suggestions in this thread... :shock:
However, some of the models here are generalizing as much as the OP did. A member doesn't know 'our' industry. I think this is a little naive, imo. I think some models assume that all members are idiots, and treat Women badly. Heck, I'd be willing to bet I've been a member of MFC longer then anyone in this thread.

I guess my point is that Malek probably won't be coming to your room anytime soon, and he COULD be the next 100,000 tip you get, who knows? Maybe I COULD be, who knows. I don't think he said anything that bad, and I could link 10 posts I've seen here of models making fun of members that was worse.

I guess I will stick to what I said as well, and be surprised at some of the responses Malek has gotten.

Hi

How is it naive to say members dont know "our" industry? I dont care how long you've been on the other end of the computer, unless you've been a cam girl (for more than a day) you will not know the ins and outs like we do. That in no way means we think all/most members are idiots who treat women badly, where the heck did you even get that from?

And personal experience is a bit more valuable than experience watching cams. Does that mean members cant have good or useful ideas? NO, of course they can. But that doesnt change the fact that you will never know the industry the way we do unless you've been in it. :twocents-02cents:


Also, what does it matter if he couldve been the next 100,000 tip? Should we bite our tongues and never express our opinions just because the guy might tip big? If that was the case we would never say a damn thing because ANYONE could be the next big tip, lol.

Not at all meant to be snarky, just casual debate :thumbleft:

Oh and for the record, Im not saying what the OP said was anything necessarily mean but I stand by what Evvie said.

 

[Throbbin_One]

Having looked around a little, I've concluded that Malek probably would have been better to post here:

http://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11933#p289160

 

[Throbbin_One]

Certainly I'd be afraid to make any suggestions in this thread... :shock:
However, some of the models here are generalizing as much as the OP did. A member doesn't know 'our' industry. I think this is a little naive, imo. I think some models assume that all members are idiots, and treat Women badly. Heck, I'd be willing to bet I've been a member of MFC longer then anyone in this thread.

I guess my point is that Malek probably won't be coming to your room anytime soon, and he COULD be the next 100,000 tip you get, who knows? Maybe I COULD be, who knows. I don't think he said anything that bad, and I could link 10 posts I've seen here of models making fun of members that was worse.

I guess I will stick to what I said as well, and be surprised at some of the responses Malek has gotten.

Hi

How is it naive to say members dont know "our" industry? I dont care how long you've been on the other end of the computer, unless you've been a cam girl (for more than a day) you will not know the ins and outs like we do. That in no way means we think all/most members are idiots who treat women badly, where the heck did you even get that from?

And personal experience is a bit more valuable than experience watching cams. Does that mean members cant have good or useful ideas? NO, of course they can. But that doesnt change the fact that you will never know the industry the way we do unless you've been in it. :twocents-02cents:


Also, what does it matter if he couldve been the next 100,000 tip? Should we bite our tongues and never express our opinions just because the guy might tip big? If that was the case we would never say a damn thing because ANYONE could be the next big tip, lol.

Not at all meant to be snarky, just casual debate :thumbleft:

Oh and for the record, Im not saying what the OP said was anything necessarily mean but I stand by what Evvie said.

How is it naive to say members dont know "our" industry? I dont care how long you've been on the other end of the computer, unless you've been a cam girl (for more than a day) you will not know the ins and outs like we do. That in no way means we think all/most members are idiots who treat women badly, where the heck did you even get that from?

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

And personal experience is a bit more valuable than experience watching cams. Does that mean members cant have good or useful ideas? NO, of course they can. But that doesnt change the fact that you will never know the industry the way we do unless you've been in it. :twocents-02cents:

Same as above

Also, what does it matter if he couldve been the next 100,000 tip? Should we bite our tongues and never express our opinions just because the guy might tip big? If that was the case we would never say a damn thing because ANYONE could be the next big tip, lol.

:lol: What are you saying, members promise you tips if you do something?
That's actually kinda funny. You know what I meant.

Not at all meant to be snarky, just casual debate :thumbleft:

No worries, I like to debate. :thumbleft:

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

Ok, all of that was way too confusing to quote so I just wrote my replies in red :-D

How is it naive to say members dont know "our" industry? I dont care how long you've been on the other end of the computer, unless you've been a cam girl (for more than a day) you will not know the ins and outs like we do. That in no way means we think all/most members are idiots who treat women badly, where the heck did you even get that from?

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

Like I said before, of course members can suggest good ideas. Yes, members perspective is important, but to an extent. If we went by everything members suggested, we'd be doing free shows and double fisting ourselves whilst whistling the star spangled banner and doing a hand stand :lol:

Learning what your audience is into and what makes them tip is obviously important, but the types of suggestions malek posted werent exclusive to that sort of thing. What one member would buy is not always the same as what someone else would buy, and doing things the way some members want isnt going to be what everyone else wants, make sense?

We are good at our jobs and have experience doing them. We have learned what works on our audiences.

And lets not forget that a LOT of models are members as well and have been for quite some time (for some even before they started camming) so we do have that input as well.

And personal experience is a bit more valuable than experience watching cams. Does that mean members cant have good or useful ideas? NO, of course they can. But that doesnt change the fact that you will never know the industry the way we do unless you've been in it. :twocents-02cents:

Same as above

Also, what does it matter if he couldve been the next 100,000 tip? Should we bite our tongues and never express our opinions just because the guy might tip big? If that was the case we would never say a damn thing because ANYONE could be the next big tip, lol.

:lol: What are you saying, members promise you tips if you do something?
That's actually kinda funny. You know what I meant.

I actually dont know what you mean nor do I see the point. Did you mean because of how he was treated he wont be coming to our rooms and we might have lost out because he possibly could've been a big tipper? If so, I stand by what i said, lol.

Not at all meant to be snarky, just casual debate :thumbleft:

No worries, I like to debate. :thumbleft:

Thank you

 

[LadyLuna]

I just had a few things to add to this thread.

Firstly, Amber, I apologize if my post implied that you are lazy. What I was trying to do was show that with the amount of work that goes into making a new subforum, it would have to serve an important purpose for it to be worth you using it.

And, thank you for this forum, again.

Second point about this being "model's turf". If this were model's turf, then all we'd have to do is say "Amber, he offended me. Kick him out!" and off he'd go. But, I saw a couple instances where a longstanding model and a longstanding member on this forum were having problems (no names will be mentioned). And those instances showed that if a member here is one of Amber's friends, he'd have to do something really horrible to get kicked out.

Third point about the search feature. I've gotten really good at it. But there's a reason for that. See, I've been around almost since the start. And I tend to read any thread that seems like it might give me a better understanding of camming, or of the forum. So I *know* what I'm looking for. This means I actually know for a fact that if I search this subforum for "members" in the title and sort it by threads, I'll come up with "things members say that make you go WTF?" and "things members say that make you go LOL". I know that if I want to find that buried thread full of images that make fun of holiness, I need to search for "irreverent" in Random Discussion, titles only, sort by thread. What do you know, only one hit, and it was exactly the thread I was looking for!

My point here, is that I actually know what keyword to use, which forum to search, and whether that keyword should be in the thread titles, the thread posts, or both. Because I've been here awhile. A new guy is not going to be able to search for that. He has to put in a keyword and hope he finds something. He's not going to know that the "HELP!" thread by that one model focused on Cameras, while the "HELP!" thread by that other model focused on profile issues. And most of the keywords a new person will look for are going to turn up hundreds of thousands of posts. If he then tries to display results by thread, he'll overlook the ones he needs because they have titles that make them seem irrelevant.

My fourth point is that being annoyed by someone pointing out something you already knew is perfectly understandable. I'm still offended by people who assume they're being called stupid when someone points out something they already knew. STUPID != IGNORANCE. Ignorance is not knowing something. Just because you don't know something already doesn't mean you're not stupid. If you've never heard of snow, you're not going to understand the white stuff when you visit a place that has snow. That doesn't mean you're stupid, it just means you haven't come across it before!

If a person doesn't know much about camming, then he's not going to know how widespread certain things are and aren't. So, he sees something that a lot of people have trouble with, and some don't. He doesn't know who knows it and who doesn't. So, he's going to start telling it to everyone, in the hopes of helping some. It's like when you learn that corn is filler in dog food. You're going to tell everyone that corn does nothing for dogs. A lot of the people that you tell are going to already know that. Know when I learned that? I was 16, working in a pet store. That means for 16 years, I didn't know that corn does nothing for dogs. And if I hadn't been working in a pet store, I would *still* not know that. And the person that I heard it from was telling it to a 50 year old woman! It's not that the 50-year-old was stupid. She had just never heard that dogs can't digest corn before.

So, be annoyed all you want that someone is telling you something you already knew. Lack of knowledge is not the same thing as stupidity. It's NOT the same as telling you that you are stupid!

I really get annoyed with this. Because, I'm not stupid. I don't think anyone here thinks that I'm stupid. But I'm usually the last person to know. There are people who ARE stupid who know things that I don't know. When it comes out that I don't know something, I'm constantly being teased for my "stupidity". I constantly have to defend my lack of knowledge about things. Of course, you guys don't see this. You guys never know when you post something and I'm like "oh, cool! I didn't know that!" I don't post that usually. I just thank the post and move on. Why? Because too many people think that lack of knowledge is stupidity, and I don't want anyone here to think I'm stupid.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[LilyEvans]

I think perhaps the main reason this thread is upsetting so many models is not because a member is offering advice. I doubt there is a single model who has not accepted and appreciated a suggestion from a member at some point in her camming career.

The thing that bothers me (I'll say me since generalizations seem to be getting people into trouble here) is that this forum gets threads full of unsolicited advice all. the. time. This thread in particular came from a user who only joined nine days ago, who did not even bother to take a little while and see that there are dozens of other threads just like it full of responses just like these. Seriously, it does not take a long time to figure out this forum-- how models react to unsolicited advice, how many many MANY threads we have already discussing GOOD advice (from both models and members) and the threads mentioning camgirl no-nos.

I, and I'm sure many other models, appreciate help with our jobs-- when we ask for it. If Malek's post had been a reply to a woman asking, "Why can't I make my goals? What am I doing wrong? Why do people leave my room right after they come in?" it could have been appropriate. Unfortunately, he took a page from our favorite YouTuber's book and dove right in without bothering to see if something like this even existed on the forums yet. Even without understanding the search function, browsing back a few pages seems like the smart thing to do before posting a thread full of advice on a subject you only understand from one side.

It's not about whether he's a member, or a model, or even a studio owner. Gordon Ramsay is a world-class chef and restauranteur; the man knows what he's talking about from food to promotion. But he doesn't just barge into people's kitchens and tell them how to become more successful, unless they ask him to.

 

[southsamurai]

off topic!

hey, miss luna!... did you know that you get annoyed when people point out something obvious to you that you already know? i've noticed this seems to bug the bejeezus out of you.


sorry, had to do it lol

 

[Nordling]

Personally, I avoid people and their ideas when they have some form of the word penis or penis activity in their name. Bigoted of me I guess.

 

[LadyLuna]

off topic!

hey, miss luna!... did you know that you get annoyed when people point out something obvious to you that you already know? i've noticed this seems to bug the bejeezus out of you.


sorry, had to do it lol

I do get annoyed by it. But never offended!

Of course, a lot of people can't tell the difference, and say "sorry for offending you" when it was just annoyance... shit, I get that even when I wasn't annoyed! I'm like... "but, you didn't... I wasn't even annoyed... wtf?"

 

[IsabellaSnow]

If a model were to ask me for advice on raffles I think I could provide it just as good as other models,

Here is the exact point. If a model were to ask you. Going up to a model who's doing a little raffle for fun and saying "hey, I've done loads of raffles before and have watched loads of girls on mfc doing raffles, I clearly know more than you about it and can run this raffle better than you can so listen to my good advice" would be rude. If a model who you tip and talk to were running a raffle and you said casually "I've run loads of raffles before, if you'd like any help or suggestions just ask!" that would not be rude, that would be helpful. If she decides she wants your help then she can ask for it, otherwise you know to keep quiet.

I guess my point is that Malek probably won't be coming to your room anytime soon, and he COULD be the next 100,000 tip you get, who knows? Maybe I COULD be, who knows. I don't think he said anything that bad, and I could link 10 posts I've seen here of models making fun of members that was worse

Ok I'll just go on this little thing that as a model you learn about members on mfc. Most of the members I have come across who go around giving unsolicited advice, who try and "help" models with words are NOT big tippers. Actually getting this bothered about stuff like this requires quite a bit of time and boredom. Maybe some of these members are big tippers, but all the ones I've come across are either freeloaders or members who tip in the smaller category.

Now maybe it would be interesting to hear from a whale tipper what keeps them in a chat room and what makes them tip so much. It'd be a bit arrogant if he turned up here and said "hey! I'm a massive tipper on mfc! This is everything I like!" and most wouldn't believe him. I'm friends with a guy who has tipped a LOT on mfc including whale tips, he doesn't tend to tip like that anymore but poor guy gets the 3rd degree of very curious questions from me, I find it fascinating. Lol as they call big tippers whales it's as though I'm out whale watching and see one and get super excited! I'm not looking to poach it, I just want to learn as much about it as possible before it goes back into the sea! Or something like that...
Yes I do ask members questions. I do so all the time. I also ask models questions. I ask people opinions on my videos, I ask for suggestions. I take advice or suggestions that I feel might work well. I read loads on acf, from members and models alike. I have a members account on mfc and watch other models.

I also earn $90 an hour. If a member likes me, they like me. Personally I am not interested in a member who wishes to control me or gets obsessive. I'm not interested in members who have such little lives outside mfc that they're going to be difficult. I would rather earn less and enjoy my camming experience.

Funnily enough, this idea just seems to wash over members... a model might actually be happy with what she earns. She might actually be cool with what she makes and rather that than all the effort and other complications. A model might enjoy the way she cams, be comfortable, happy and be making the right amount for her. Sure extra money is always nice, but not everyone feels it's worth selling your soul over.

As for big tippers... I have a nightly aim of between 3000 tokens and 10,000 tokens. My highest tipping members don't spend more than 10,000 tokens a month. Now 10k tokens is a lot of money, but if the provider of those 10k tokens is causing me a load of grief and hassle, they can go. I will make that money back.
MFC see's it the same. If a top model leaves, someone else will take their place. They do not give a crap about members or models because they know that the money will come in regardless. I do care about members, but, I have made and lost loads of regulars, one regular leaves, more replace them. My income hasn't really changed much, if anything with some regulars leaving it often will go up! As a tipping member you are important, but unless you are actually tipping enough to make my camscore go up, you are not that important. If members choose to leave there's always the worry about lost income, but the sad part is losing a friend.

Basically my point is whether or not someone might be a high tipper, if they like you they like you, as you are. If you change for a member you will be fake and chances are that member won't tip you 100k. In fact, out of the millions of members who pass through mfc daily how many of them are even tippers let alone whale tippers? I think it's fairly safe to assume that this guy isn't going to be 1 in a million.

Like has been said before, sound, cam quality, all these things are individual cases. MOST girls are in HD. Out of the thousands of models online at each time the majority of them do not have these issues. Looking at the screen shots on the 1st page, all of those webcams are updated high quality cams. If you have an issue with one or two girls then tell them!

 

[NoelleBright]

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I know more than a few models who were members before they were models. I know I personally had a premium account that I perved and tipped from for an entire year before I was in a position where I could become a model myself. Wouldn't that give us the "members perspective" as well?
:confusion-shrug:

ETA:Even if a girl isn't a member herself, it's kind of rude to assume that we don't seek out input from them ever at all because we think they're all "idiots". I know I frequently ask for advice, but it's from long time trusted regulars who I enjoy talking to and whose opinions I value.

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I know more than a few models who were members before they were models. I know I personally had a premium account that I perved and tipped from for an entire year before I was in a position where I could become a model myself. Wouldn't that give us the "members perspective" as well?
:confusion-shrug:

I asked the same thing, waiting to hear the opinion. :-D

My boyfriend has an account as well and so do many cam girl S/O so we also get male members input that way too.

And anyone who has been camming for a good amount of time has had PLENTY of member perspective :twocents-02cents:

 

[NoelleBright]

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I know more than a few models who were members before they were models. I know I personally had a premium account that I perved and tipped from for an entire year before I was in a position where I could become a model myself. Wouldn't that give us the "members perspective" as well?
:confusion-shrug:

I asked the same thing, waiting to hear the opinion. :-D

My boyfriend has an account as well and so do many cam girl S/O so we also get male members input that way too.

And anyone who has been camming for a good amount of time has had PLENTY of member perspective :twocents-02cents:

Dang, I knew I would miss something.
I have a feeling that this is gonna boil down to "well you gotta have a dick to REALLY know"

 

[AnaVictoriaXO]

Well first, I believe smart people are smart. I don't believe that I'd have to sit behind a cam to be able to suggest something smart. I believe there are many quality members that have successful careers that could share experience. Most of all, I can give a 'members' perspective. NOT a 'models' perspective. Isn't the 'members' perspective more important?

I'm just gonna throw this out there, but I know more than a few models who were members before they were models. I know I personally had a premium account that I perved and tipped from for an entire year before I was in a position where I could become a model myself. Wouldn't that give us the "members perspective" as well?
:confusion-shrug:

I asked the same thing, waiting to hear the opinion. :-D

My boyfriend has an account as well and so do many cam girl S/O so we also get male members input that way too.

And anyone who has been camming for a good amount of time has had PLENTY of member perspective :twocents-02cents:

Dang, I knew I would miss something.
I have a feeling that this is gonna boil down to "well you gotta have a dick to REALLY know"

I thought the same thing! I mean, men and women do think differently but I dont see how having a dick would change what we like as members?

I mean, we've paid for cam shows, we've tipped etc so why would we be looking for different things when it comes down to it?



Were still paying for a service and expect the same things, am I wrong?

 

[southsamurai]

ya know, i used to give free advice to everyone all the time. surprisingly enough not only did people ignore it, but they seemed a bit miffed at my obviously superior intellect and education. (yes, i do know what a plethora is, and that really belongs in the movie quote thread, but this parenthetical is getting long)
after one extended row with my sister when i was so kind and helpful as to lead her ever so gently away from a bad dating decision i finally decided to keep my brilliance to myself, and thus the world lost a fount of wisdom and perspicacity.
now not only do my friends, family and assorted acquaintances have to ask for my opinion, i usually ask them if they really want it. if they claim to, then i ask them if they want the short form or the long form (for obvious reasons). then i tell them that if they take the advice it is free, but if they refuse to do so it will cost them 10 bucks the next time they ask.

believe it or not i now no longer have to worry about the hordes of feeble minded minions pestering me daily for my wit and erudition. plus i make 10 bucks about once or twice a year, so that is all to the good

 

[mynameisbob84]

And now to mynameisbob84's analogy on the film industry, and this relates into my above statements.
If you want advice on film making yes you do of course go to other film makers, but don't forget that REALLY long list of credits at the end of the movie. If you want advice on every aspect of film making then you also need to talk to the guys who JUST do lighting, and the team that JUST does computer effects, and the ones who do electrical rigging, and special effects..... That whole 8 minutes of credits, all those people, they all need to be consulted too. After all the guy who makes the exploding blood squibs may not know jack shit about film making but he can make the gunfight in your film look a lot better now can't he? Every one of those people who may not know anything about film making DO know their own field and can bring a skill or perspective to the project to make a better film.

Do you get the extended analogy? All those non-related areas of expertise can contribute to make a better whole.
Basically my point there is that by limiting what advice you wish to hear you really limit a lot of potential good advice. The diversity that people in other walks of life can bring shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand because we aren't models.

I've learned that from going back to college for Petroleum Engineering. If I have a question about petroleum, the overwhelming odds are I won't actually be talking to another petroleum engineer at all. Instead I might be talking to a geologist who can find the oil field in the first place, or the drilling company who drills the wellbore, the hydro team who comes in and hydraulically fractures the reservoir, or the offshore oil rig company who makes the platforms that I would have to rent by the day, or the guys who make the drill bits to get down there, or the pipeline company who hauls away the oil to the refinery , or..... The list is INCREDIBLY LONG filled with people outside of the petroleum profession who would be able to contribute in a very positive way to my job.

Just because a member isn't a cam model does not mean his (or her) advice cannot be useful in a meaningful way.

In an effort to refine my analogy, I'm lumping directors, producers, actors, cinematographers, SFX artists etc. together as "filmmakers". They're the people with the expertise and the people who actually make the films. The audience are the people who consume the end product and ultimately decide whether it's a success

But yeah, there's always gonna be exceptions to every rule. If a model is new to camming and wants to get together some photos for her profile and she knows a member who is also a photographer who specialises in photoshoots with glamour models, she'd probably be better off talking to them than she would with other models. And there are dozens of similar cases. But in all those instances, it's on the model to seek out the best advice she can find. The overwhelming majority of the time, the best advice available to her is gonna come from other models. Every once in a while there might be a member who's better equipped to help out and in those instances that member will (presumably) be asked for their advice.

Like I said a couple of posts back, member advice is important but there's a time and a place to share that advice. And that's when you're directly asked. Given that - except for rare circumstances - model advice is more balanced and weighted and therefore more valid than member advice (generally), these threads that periodically crop up are just a bit pointless, ya know? :twocents-02cents:

 

[AmberCutie]

See? This thread now has 4 pages and is still going. THIS is why I don't/won't be deleting posts and threads anymore unless there is something extremely harmful in it.

It may have upset the OP that he didn't get the response he wanted, but it created 4 pages of conversation and healthy debate. That, IMO, is what a good forum thrives on.

CARRY ON! :handgestures-salute:

 

[IsabellaSnow]

If a model is new to camming and wants to get together some photos for her profile and she knows a member who is also a photographer who specialises in photoshoots with glamour models, she'd probably be better off talking to them than she would with other models

Although I agree with your points, and that there are times when a model might be better off asking a member, this is not one of those moments.

A member who claims he specialises in photoshoots with glamour models quite possibly doesn't. Members lie to models all the time. Not all members are liars, but as a rule, models should never trust members fully. I personally do not trust any members who say they specialise in taking photos of glamour models. Maybe they do, but it just screams sleaze. Advice said member could give the model in question could be harmful and in fact dangerous.
Men also are less likely to think of all the dangers women can face in these situations. No I would much rather ask a group of models who've all done professional photoshoots and could help me choose who's legit and who's not, share help on safety, protection etc.
Choosing a photographer is often less about the photos, it's about safety. Most professional photographers can handle taking some good shots, but there are many out there who are sleazy and possibly dangerous.

Now, if it were a case of "which photo on my profile do you find most attractive?" then I would be more likely to ask a member for their opinion. Problem with that is, if I asked 10 men which picture they like the most, chances are they'll all choose different ones.

As much as this may sound biased against members, I know for a fact a model is a model. I can see her success very clearly, I can see how she cams. A member could be anyone. People often exaggerate over the internet. They also might consider themselves in a certain profession without actually being in one. Peoples opinions of themselves are useful to find out the kind of person they think they are, but not of the person they actually are.

Unfortunately the only situations I've ever wanted or needed help from members has been stuff like tech help. In these situations I've not come across a member who has been able to help me. It's always a thread I manage to dig up in the models only section that has been able to help me.

Essentially members coming to a camsite with expertise and trying to help is like a retired carer going into a hospital and trying to help, sometimes they might help or console a confused patient, but most of the time they would get in the way and possibly mess things up for everyone. The thought is there, but they might actually cause some serious damage. Your career, education, lifestyle is not important when coming into a place of work that is NOT your career path. If you go and eat in a restaurant after having years and years in restaurant experience you are still just another customer. It is no different on camsites.

I understand some members are bored, lonely, maybe some feel unfulfilled in life, maybe there is very little satisfaction and gratification in their jobs, or they might be unemployed or retired. These are the sort of situations people are usually in when they start trying to organise and help other people without it being asked or needed. Many of us are guilty of this, and anyone can get themselves into one of these situations and start trying to be useful and want their intelligence and skills to be recognised.
These kinds of members come to camsites for various reasons, enjoy them, start seeing how much money can be made and start analysing mistakes. It's the adding up fake numbers with an obliviousness to how things actually work. This isn't anything to do with whether camgirls need to get better at camming. This has something to do with the person offering the advice/help. They are missing something out of life and clearly want to feel needed or important, or just have too much time on their hands.

My solution is, anyone who starts thinking too much about how camgirls cam, enough that they start thinking of suggestions, start feeling their opinions are important, NEED to look at their own lives and make some changes. Camgirls are entertainment, we shouldn't be a hobby. Tv is entertainment. Not a hobby. If you're starting to put too much energy into camming without it actually being your job, you need to get a hobby or find a job/change job as somewhere along the line something is missing.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

If a model were to ask me for advice on raffles I think I could provide it just as good as other models,

Here is the exact point. If a model were to ask you. Going up to a model who's doing a little raffle for fun and saying "hey, I've done loads of raffles before and have watched loads of girls on mfc doing raffles, I clearly know more than you about it and can run this raffle better than you can so listen to my good advice" would be rude. If a model who you tip and talk to were running a raffle and you said casually "I've run loads of raffles before, if you'd like any help or suggestions just ask!" that would not be rude, that would be helpful. If she decides she wants your help then she can ask for it, otherwise you know to keep quiet.

Yes exactly. I do agree the OP should not have just barged in and posted that the way he did. Instead he should have just taken time read the various threads. There are plenty where models and members have already asked for advice on various subjects. Those are pretty much open to anyone's opinions since it was asked for. I was just concerned that the thought 'members haven't been models so their opinions aren't needed' was being taken a bit too far. Nothing I can do if someone truly feels that way of course. I don't tend give unwanted advice to people in any field, I'm far too lazy for that. Plus I just genuinely don't care about strangers lives that much to waste my time. :thumbleft:

In the time I've been signed up with mfc, as a member, I've heard other stupid idiots dismiss and denigrate models solely on the fact they are camgirls. You've all heard the trolls come into the room and say the mean shit, so you already know what things they say. To say member's opinions are not valid just because they are not models sounds similarly demeaning, just in the opposite direction.