Is Chaturbate in a State of Decline?

[curvyredhead]

She's laughing at that "exploitation" all the way to the bank.

She sure as hell fucking is buddy
Or at least the studio who is taken advantage of her is.

 

[LittleLei]

Except...the model is getting back more than I do. She is the one who financially benefits from more viewers. She is the one who benefits from higher retention rates on big spenders. How can you be so one sided and unfair?

Out of this whole situation, we are only getting your side. I, and I’m sure many people in this thread, would love to get the model’s feedback on your help and presence in their room. I don’t think my opinion is unfair. The majority of the opinion along with mine, rubs off the wrong way. Don’t you think that’s something to step back and think about?

All the models you’ve taken on as projects they have all refused coming onto a forum with sex work industry people? So they prefer your help over finding information for themselves with people in their same line of work? Not trying to be snarky, genuine questions.

 

[SaffronBurke]

I am there for high quality conversation

....so you want a girlfriend......

Why do I need to pay over $250 per hour to take her private and have a conversation with someone?

Because you want her undivided attention and emotional labor, and/or GFE. That costs big money.

 

[Smores]

All the models you’ve taken on as projects they have all refused coming onto a forum with sex work industry people?

That is right. And I have problems getting them to even read references or individual threads here. For example, one of the models had terrible lighting. That has since been corrected and it nearly doubled her viewer count. I couldn't get her to read a single thread on ACF on lighting. I couldn't get her to listen to a single three-point lighting video on Youtube. I tried for months. People get mad at me here for using the word 'lazy' but what is that? Can people have some empathy for me and understand why that would frustrate me? I mean someone is asking me for help and this is low-hanging fruit to improve the show, and they do nothing to help themselves.

Finally, one day in exasperation, I asked her if she had just a table lamp in her room that she could use as a fill light. She walked over to a lamp and turned it on, and the lighting was great almost immediately. I couldn't believe it. She had three point lighting in her room all the time and just never thought to turn on the fill light.

So they prefer your help over finding information for themselves with people in their same line of work? Not trying to be snarky, genuine questions.

That's a fair question. I think many of these girls saw me as the path of least resistance. I was in the room and was trusted after months of interaction. I was offering help with no strings attached after they indicated they wanted to improve their shows. It was just easier to say yes to that than to really dig to find a better resource.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Out of this whole situation, we are only getting your side. I, and I’m sure many people in this thread, would love to get the model’s feedback on your help and presence in their room. I don’t think my opinion is unfair. The majority of the opinion along with mine, rubs off the wrong way. Don’t you think that’s something to step back and think about?

All the models you’ve taken on as projects they have all refused coming onto a forum with sex work industry people? So they prefer your help over finding information for themselves with people in their same line of work? Not trying to be snarky, genuine questions.

I've been avoiding this shit storm, but I did want to comment about "why don't you send them over to ACF to learn about camming".

Don't get me wrong ACF is a great place, and Amber's done a terrific job building up a community, I've certainly learned a lot being here, and I sure it's been invaluable to many camgirls. But it is really not for every model or even most. I've sent maybe 20 models over to ACF over the years, almost all checked it out and more than 1/2 made accounts. But AFAIK not a single one remains. I talked a few about their experience, most complained about it being hard to find information. They are right, forum search function is no Google. A couple of other models found the place clique and negative. Which is very typical of forums, there is a social element to the forums which is very important to keeping folks engaged but frustrating to someone who is just here trying to get their question answered. Right now ACF has about 90 members and guest logged vs ~1500 models on ACF and ~3000 and probably thousand of models on other cam sites.
This is not a knock on ACF, this true of all forum. I found out sending people to forums on everything from aquariums, and art marketing to investing that's a forums aren't a great information source for most people. People learned differently, some like to watch youtube videos, others read wiki pages, some want books, some need hands-on instruction, and other just want to be able to ask a knowledgeable person questions. Those of us find engaging in conversation on a forum to be a terrific way of learning are in a minority.

Now I have no idea what information Smore provides, but in an industry with no formal training system., where 3/4 of the models quit after 3 months. I think there is a need.

 

[Smores]

....so you want a girlfriend......

High quality conversation does not necessarily imply sexual conversation. I would say I want friendships that have a lot of earned trust going both ways. Given that these are webcam systems I would expect that both sides of that conversation can talk about what they value in sex without the conversation necessarily implying potential dating behavior.

 

[curvyredhead]

while I think its total bullshit to say that its hard to find information on the forum .... let's say that true

What about the wiki? That is as simple and straightforward as it gets when it comes to information and includes other links
What about the studio she is working for (who at the end of the day do want her to make money)
What about the other girls who work at the studio

You yourself are coming to the forum for information....you are a middleman and its time to cut the middleman.

 

[Smores]

Now I have no idea what information Smore provides, but in an industry with no formal training system., where 3/4 of the models quit after 3 months. I think there is a need.

This is like the understatement of the century. Some of these studio girls live in a complete information vacuum. They want to succeed but have zero guidance from anyone about how to build a show and how to build a business.

I am starting to understand better from dark_mermaid's posts that this is all part of the studio system design. They are hiring girls who they see as good performers but unambitious or incapable of breaking out of the holds of the studio system. So they keep those girls in the dark and never train them or develop any skills. Then the "heroes" come along and try to rescue them, but it's actually very very difficult to do that, as some of my examples should illustrate. Most heroes don't have the patience to wait months for a girl to discover that she has a light in her room that she did not think to turn on. So the heroes give up in frustration, and the girls for the most part just fade away and get replaced by new girls.

In the end I will have some very expensive education, and I am pretty sure anyone I have helped will pretty much forget what I did for them and just quit the studio and apply the skills on their own. If she and I both took things of value out of the experience, I don't think the model is worse for that interaction.

 

[AudriTwo]

Now I have no idea what information Smore provides, but in an industry with no formal training system., where 3/4 of the models quit after 3 months. I think there is a need.

Yeahhhhhhh gonna nope this in the butts.

it is an independent gig that is very VERY laboring. this isn't a standard job where you can be trained. end of the day you cannot train likeability or luck. a lot of sites offer plenty of tools and help when first starting up. girls are quitting because they aren't being formally trained. there is a PLETHORA of information. not just this little forum. blog posts, youtube tutorials, discord servers, twitter accounts, wikis, even sites structured around helping newbs. every young person who grew up on the internet should have been taught in schools to research information on the internet. even in my late 90's early 2000's education we were taught that. same can be said in the EE. the EE has better and faster internet than the states and rest of europe. there they are quitting because a lot of different variables. the biggest is it aint easy. the wear you put on your physical and mental health can burn out the most seasoned veteran.

just like how there only special types of people who can handle certain jobs. camming is 100% one of them.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Yeahhhhhhh gonna nope this in the butts.

it is an independent gig that is very VERY laboring. this isn't a standard job where you can be trained. end of the day you cannot train likeability or luck. a lot of sites offer plenty of tools and help when first starting up. girls are quitting because they aren't being formally trained. there is a PLETHORA of information. not just this little forum. blog posts, youtube tutorials, discord servers, twitter accounts, wikis, even sites structured around helping newbs. every young person who grew up on the internet should have been taught in schools to research information on the internet. even in my late 90's early 2000's education we were taught that. same can be said in the EE. the EE has better and faster internet than the states and rest of europe. there they are quitting because a lot of different variables. the biggest is it aint easy. the wear you put on your physical and mental health can burn out the most seasoned veteran.

just like how there only special types of people who can handle certain jobs. camming is 100% one of them.

BS, you can train people to do in any job: actor, acrobat, adult actress, assassin, astronaut... zerg-destroyer and zoologist. You can absolutely train likeability and maybe even luck. In fact, plenty, of models on this forum have trained other girls on how to be cam models, and the teach them things like how to increase their likability such as thanking tippers. Yes, there are other sources of information, which if you got good internet skills, and are fluent in English, you can access. But plenty of folks don't have either. I think because of stigma and newness there are lot less resources for learning how to be cam models than most other jobs. If all that information was easy to find as you say, how come so many new models, post on this forum, "I tried looking on the internet, but I had no idea what I was doing when I first started"?

There is plenty of information on how to any job on the internet, and yet for some mysterious reason, most companies spend a lot of money, using live humans to train new employees, instead of just saying "have questions, Google it. Either they are wasting a ton of money, or they found that some people learned better with live or one-one instruction.

There is no question that camming isn't easy and not everybody can do it. But the universe of potentially high-paying jobs that are also easy to is pretty much zero. There lot of jobs that I'd be awful at, as well I discovered a number of jobs that I turned out to be pretty good at, but if you had asked me at age 19 or 20, which ones I'd be good and bad at I'd have gotten a lot wrong. Lots of reasons camgirls, but I'm sure plenty quit because nobody ever told them what they were doing wrong.

 

[Mila_]

There is plenty of information on how to any job on the internet, and yet for some mysterious reason, most companies spend a lot of money, using live humans to train new employees, instead of just saying "have questions, Google it. Either they are wasting a ton of money, or they found that some people learned better with live or one-one instruction.

Something tells me Snores wouldn’t be interested in this mentoring program of his if his victim was a cook or a store clerk instead of a camgirl. Which tells you something about the nature of his interactions with these models. In my professional opinion he isn’t starting a business and he isn’t interested in helping people, he really wants to believe he is though so I won’t bust his bubble directly. Nobody spends 3 hours a day or more obsessing over helping another person. In my experience there are members who go on camsites to get sexual fixes, to fap basically, members who want a romantic connection, members who want entertainment and then.. then there are members who have a very different type of need.. a need for control and power exchanges or who need to sort out personal childhood issues and they want to use models as props to work them out. Our man Snores here is type D.

The models Snores targets sound like the type of girl who wouldn’t ban a guy like him because they are gullible and desperate for income, so that measly $1000 he splits among the 5 models he “helps” they see as something they shouldn’t refuse and keep putting up with his bullshit for it. That model he claims became popular thanks to his advice won’t even continue to talk to him, she just goes through the motions so she doesn’t have to deal with an upset member

 

[a_haze420]

I have learned a shit ton of information here. From searching. I came here and began using it as a resource 1.5 years ago and have greatly improved my stream and videos since with the help of this forum.

If you want to do this job put the work in do your own research if you don't a choose to quit that is on you. I don't think there is a "need" for being begged to change your lighting. Or spoon fed simple things.

If you aren't even gonna put in effort to put in an extra lamp then the work ethic clearly isn't there.

 

[SaffronBurke]

High quality conversation does not necessarily imply sexual conversation.

I didn't say that it did, but if you're demanding that level of emotional labor from a lady on a camsite, you should be paying her for the minute. And, maybe I've been relationshipping wrong, but you can ABSOLUTELY have a conversation with a girlfriend that is deep and intellectually stimulating without it being remotely sexual. I'm just one woman, but I rather appreciate when people I'm in a relationship with, or even just a friends with benefits or casual hookup, wants to engage in some deep conversation, it says "hey, I see you as a person, not a breathing fleshlight". At work, though? I charge people who ask me to stand up/blow a kiss/smile big, I would sure as shit require someone who wants an intense conversation - which might alienate my other customers - to take me exclusive.

I would say I want friendships that have a lot of earned trust going both ways.

Then stop bothering girls who are at work, leave the house, and make some friends in your community.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Something tells me Snores wouldn’t be interested in this mentoring program of his if his victim was a cook or a store clerk instead of a camgirl. Which tells you something about the nature of his interactions with these models. In my professional opinion he isn’t starting a business and he isn’t interested in helping people, he really wants to believe he is though so I won’t bust his bubble directly. Nobody spends 3 hours a day or more obsessing over helping another person. In my experience there are members who go on camsites to get sexual fixes, to fap basically, members who want a romantic connection, members who want entertainment and then.. then there are members who have a very different type of need.. a need for control and power exchanges or who need to sort out personal childhood issues and they want to use models as props to work them out. Our man Snores here is type D.

I think there is a good chance you are right about this. Where I disagree is that "nobody spends 3 hours a day helping people." There are altruistic people in the world, who derive great pleasure and satisfaction helping or serving others. I actually think it describes a fair number of large tippers. Certainly, the hot camgirl is a much more appealing person to help that the homeless 40 year old junkie turning tricks. So yes, I think it more likely he is your Type D, than Mother Teresa. But after all these decades on the internet, I've found people greatly over-estimate their ability to assess motives of folks they "know" on-line. So I could easily be wrong. But you sound very confident of your mind-reading skills. So I'll stop.

 

[Smores]

The models Snores targets sound like the type of girl who wouldn’t ban a guy like him because they are gullible and desperate for income, so that measly $1000 he splits among the 5 models he “helps” they see as something they shouldn’t refuse and keep putting up with his bullshit for it. That model he claims became popular thanks to his advice won’t even continue to talk to him, she just goes through the motions so she doesn’t have to deal with an upset member

The problem with that version is they asked me to help them. So they have a very weak story to tell people if they want to talk out of both sides of their mouth and say "I asked him to spend time with me and help me" but "I also just put up with him and wish he would go away". If you want to just put up with a person to milk him for money, then spend the minimum time required to get that money. They had - and still have - the option to do that. It's incoherent psycho-babble to say the model hates me but then additionally puts herself in a position where she has even more interaction that makes her no additional money. She didn't get a dime more or less money directly from me from her decision to ask for help. So if my time with them has no value for them, they should just take my dollars and minimize their interactions.

On the other hand, if they "put up with me" because they want their show to do better financially, then we are both getting our needs met. I am getting my education. They are getting their additional viewers and money. Great. And if one of them wants to complain about that "guy who made me think about lighting and forced me to turn on the lamp in my room" well hey, she can just deal with it. I did what any person should do in the role I am playing, and I don't think I owe her or you an apology for doing something with competence. Her viewer counts went from 200-300 to 500-700 in the blink of an eye because of lighting. It is so not right if the performer wants to complain or have a bad thought about that interaction.

Why are you so aggressively negative with people? You run around this website picking fights with everyone. And in my case you try to construct all of these weird psychological angles on things just so you can stick your knife into me and try to twist it. You have some deep-seated need to destroy people.

 

[Smores]

If you aren't even gonna put in effort to put in an extra lamp then the work ethic clearly isn't there.

Right! So when a person asks me to help them, and I persistently bring up this kind of issue, I am not the bad guy. And when I complain openly here that the person I am helping may have a work ethic problem, it might actually be the case that the person I am helping has a work ethic problem. I put up with that work ethic problem because I want to measure how the viewer counts change when I finally get her to turn on the light that was standing there the whole time.

When I started this, I never actually imagined that such trivial tasks would take so much time and effort. But they do, so my appetite for handing out free help is pretty quickly fading. And I guess people here will see that as a good thing, and maybe I am just a slow and stubborn learner.

 

[curvyredhead]

I don't think you have a business idea

 

[AudriTwo]

BS, you can train people to do in any job: actor, acrobat, adult actress, assassin, astronaut... zerg-destroyer and zoologist. You can absolutely train likeability and maybe even luck. In fact, plenty, of models on this forum have trained other girls on how to be cam models, and the teach them things like how to increase their likability such as thanking tippers. Yes, there are other sources of information, which if you got good internet skills, and are fluent in English, you can access. But plenty of folks don't have either. I think because of stigma and newness there are lot less resources for learning how to be cam models than most other jobs. If all that information was easy to find as you say, how come so many new models, post on this forum, "I tried looking on the internet, but I had no idea what I was doing when I first started"?

There is plenty of information on how to any job on the internet, and yet for some mysterious reason, most companies spend a lot of money, using live humans to train new employees, instead of just saying "have questions, Google it. Either they are wasting a ton of money, or they found that some people learned better with live or one-one instruction.

There is no question that camming isn't easy and not everybody can do it. But the universe of potentially high-paying jobs that are also easy to is pretty much zero. There lot of jobs that I'd be awful at, as well I discovered a number of jobs that I turned out to be pretty good at, but if you had asked me at age 19 or 20, which ones I'd be good and bad at I'd have gotten a lot wrong. Lots of reasons camgirls, but I'm sure plenty quit because nobody ever told them what they were doing wrong.

You really really really should stick to jerking off. You are incredibly ignorant on this topic. And at this point you are validating op's predatory behavior.


I want to know why it is anybody's responsibility to tell them what they are doing wrong? If they want to better, that is their responsiblity. This is the real world. 18 and 19 yos need to learn to adult. You men cannot teach them that by creating a dependency. If they don't have the skills to figure out, this job clearly isn't for them.

Google translate works. I'm fairly certain I remember smores saying he uses it. So I'm not buying the "they don't speak fluent english". I speak to several people on daily basis who arent fluent in English. I've had models who don't speak it reach out to me and was able to communicate.
----



All I hear is excuses to make you dudes feel good about your predatory tactics. It's gross. Seriously send these models over. I want to hear their side and I want to make sure they a safe. I'm genuinely worried for them.

 

[Dan Epstein]

Every time someone goes into similarweb (they're Israeli guys by the way, seen their offices once), Alexa, or Google Trends, they become the experts.
If traffic was everything, we could all just make a living by staring at the highway.

 

[Mila_]

. But after all these decades on the internet, I've found people greatly over-estimate their ability to assess motives of folks they "know" on-line. So I could easily be wrong. But you sound very confident of your mind-reading skills. So I'll stop.

I am not a random person on the internet with a facebook account followed by her mother and 2 friends from high school, me and many other camgirls interact with 1000s of people every single day, and it's not just "hello-goodbye" type of interactions, it's transactional. So while this doesn't give me mind-reading skills it does give me a lot of insight into the motivations of camsite members, I see patterns you don't see from prolonged exposition and repetition.

Altruism does exist, but it's not what's driving Snores to action here. He is looking for power transactions, even here on this forum, that's what motivates him.

 

[a_haze420]

Right! So when a person asks me to help them, and I persistently bring up this kind of issue, I am not the bad guy. And when I complain openly here that the person I am helping may have a work ethic problem, it might actually be the case that the person I am helping has a work ethic problem. I put up with that work ethic problem because I want to measure how the viewer counts change when I finally get her to turn on the light that was standing there the whole time.

When I started this, I never actually imagined that such trivial tasks would take so much time and effort. But they do, so my appetite for handing out free help is pretty quickly fading. And I guess people here will see that as a good thing, and maybe I am just a slow and stubborn learner.

So stop? Why try so hard for people who clearly don't want the help?

 

[curvyredhead]

So stop? Why try so hard for people who clearly don't want the help?

he has to collect data for his business idea that is not real

 

[a_haze420]

he has to collect data for his business idea that is not real

Yeah I really can't see any "business idea" involved with spending your time begging a girl to turn a damn light on lmao

 

[Dan Epstein]

I can't help him, I just learned that Lovense is not the name of an anti-aging cream about a week ago, and I'm in the business

 

[Deleted member 37064]

 

[Lintilla]

he has to collect data for his business idea that is not real

Clearly he's planning to begin camming, himself. He states that he's not interested in taking on new "projects", so I can't see any other reason for getting and improving knowledge about camming, which he states as one of his main goals, and obviously would have no other use for.

 

[Yavin4MFC]

Unless adult streamers are prepared to do completely non nude gaming and other entertaining streams, no. This is a farfetched idea.

Also, MFC is already on its way to offering a nonnude option with camyou, it's just on a backburner while they work out other more important things like getting away from flash dependency.

I don't see them moving away from flash dependency; they'd have to replatform. They may build up a different streaming service option in MFC Share, but the main site will continue to exist until it's turned off or the MFC brand is sold off to Pornhub or someone else.

 

[AmberCutie]

I don't see them moving away from flash dependency; they'd have to replatform. They may build up a different streaming service option in MFC Share, but the main site will continue to exist until it's turned off or the MFC brand is sold off to Pornhub or someone else.

They are working on it, what are you smoking? Lol. It takes time.

We can already stream using OBS without flash. And members are able to watch it without flash. No idea why you would make the comment that you did.

 

[Yavin4MFC]

They are working on it, what are you smoking? Lol. It takes time.

We can already stream using OBS without flash. And members are able to watch it without flash. No idea why you would make the comment that you did.

Possibly because I guess we're both seeing and experiencing two different things. How has OBS been lately? Does this seem like the same service or an extension, something they can move the majority of the site off of?

 

[AmberCutie]

Possibly because I guess we're both seeing and experiencing two different things. How has OBS been lately? Does this seem like the same service or an extension, something they can move the majority of the site off of?

The entirety of the site will eventually be non-defendant on flash. Not sure what exactly you’re asking me. They aren’t going to just let this site die because flash is becoming obsolete, that’s the part of the comment I was very curious what you were thinking.