Is Chaturbate in a State of Decline?

[Lelo1]

Add in the fact that the paying members are growing tired of getting the feeling that they are subsidizing the freeloaders, and you get what you have now...a decline in revenue.

If you don't feel valued in a group show, why are you doing them? why not start buying privates?

 

[Mila_]

The problem, @Smores, is no matter how much you try to make it sound palatable and good right now, your wording betrays you. You have been speaking about “creating a model who does A or B” and “I could move her up on the site faster if she wasn’t so lazy” talking about “moving” models like they were furniture, speaking about them like they were objects to be manipulated or played with by you for months, the thing that makes me and many other models here feel creeped out. I personally believe you are a psychopath. To you the models you help are not people but toys in your toy box. It’s creepy as all fuck and often the stories you tell here of your interactions are invasive, smothering, blindly inappropriate, your behavior as a mod is exhibit 2481. And you are on every thread here with this psychopathic bullshit. I wish you quit ACF because you creep me out

 

[Smores]

The problem, @Smores, is no matter how much you try to make it sound palatable and good right now, your wording betrays you. You have been speaking about “creating a model who does A or B” and “I could move her up on the site faster if she wasn’t so lazy”

How would you like to make the point that someone could progress faster if they were involved more seriously in their own outcomes? I can learn. What words would show better consideration for the model?

talking about “moving” models like they were furniture, speaking about them like they were objects to be manipulated or played with by you for months, the thing that makes me and many other models here feel creeped out. I personally believe you are a psychopath.

There you are just a terrible judge of personality. I am calm, always stable, and I actually do listen to the other person. If someone says "This is too much" then I stop. If someone says "I want to go a different direction" I listen and adjust. Once I have clear communication, okay I am aggressive. But that is not carved in stone, and when someone says "stop" or "slow down" or "quit" I do that.

To you the models you help are not people but toys in your toy box.

Mila, how would you know what any of these people mean to me? When did I invite you into my heart to see that? Why would I share my feelings on a forum like this, where no one ever has anything positive to say about anyone?

Just a lot of cheap shots here.

 

[AmberCutie]

How would you like to make the point that someone could progress faster if they were involved more seriously in their own outcomes? I can learn. What words would show better consideration for the model?



There you are just a terrible judge of personality. I am calm, always stable, and I actually do listen to the other person. If someone says "This is too much" then I stop. If someone says "I want to go a different direction" I listen and adjust. Once I have clear communication, okay I am aggressive. But that is not carved in stone, and when someone says "stop" or "slow down" or "quit" I do that.



Mila, how would you know what any of these people mean to me? When did I invite you into my heart to see that? Why would I share my feelings on a forum like this, where no one ever has anything positive to say about anyone?

Just a lot of cheap shots here.

Just another example of how you’re terrible with words.

 

[Smores]

Just another example of how you’re terrible with words.

So I granted her point and asked her for help with the choice of words, and what did I get back?

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

There you are just a terrible judge of personality. I am calm, always stable, and I actually do listen to the other person. If someone says "This is too much" then I stop. If someone says "I want to go a different direction" I listen and adjust. Once I have clear communication, okay I am aggressive. But that is not carved in stone, and when someone says "stop" or "slow down" or "quit" I do that.

I think that the problem is not that you don't listen but that you put yourself in a position, but that you end up in a position where they have to tell you to stop. If you want to direct models to do what you want the respectful thing to do is to ask them what their boundaries are and if they line up with what you do you take them private, that way you can direct them to do as much as you like without you ending up looking creepy.

Why would I share my feelings on a forum like this, where no one ever has anything positive to say about anyone?

Just a lot of cheap shots here.

I have spent over two decades on the internet and this forum is one of the friendliest places I have encountered, if that is not your experience perhaps you should take a look at what you write and think about how people perceive you based on that. At the moment to me you look like someone who are under the impression that you are the only one that can uplift these models who are doing things the wrong way from their currently miserable position in the camming world. This might not be the case but that is the perception that I currently have off you and your last few posts has done nothing to change it. The help that we members can offer models apart from tipping is not going to change their business in a significant way, it is not going to be like Kitchen nightmares where Gordon Ramsay steps in and saves failing restaurants because we don't have the first hand experience in camming that would be necessary for us to be able to do that.

 

[Gen]

I think that the problem is not that you don't listen but that you put yourself in a position, but that you end up in a position where they have to tell you to stop. If you want to direct models to do what you want the respectful thing to do is to ask them what their boundaries are and if they line up with what you do you take them private, that way you can direct them to do as much as you like without you ending up looking creepy.


I have spent over two decades on the internet and this forum is one of the friendliest places I have encountered, if that is not your experience perhaps you should take a look at what you write and think about how people perceive you based on that. At the moment to me you look like someone who are under the impression that you are the only one that can uplift these models who are doing things the wrong way from their currently miserable position in the camming world. This might not be the case but that is the perception that I currently have off you and your last few posts has done nothing to change it. The help that we members can offer models apart from tipping is not going to change their business in a significant way, it is not going to be like Kitchen nightmares where Gordon Ramsay steps in and saves failing restaurants because we don't have the first hand experience in camming that would be necessary for us to be able to do that.

You are great.

 

[Smores]

I think that the problem is not that you don't listen but that you put yourself in a position, but that you end up in a position where they have to tell you to stop. If you want to direct models to do what you want the respectful thing to do is to ask them what their boundaries are and if they line up with what you do you take them private, that way you can direct them to do as much as you like without you ending up looking creepy.

There is no project anywhere where two people involved in that project do not need to reset goals and expectations and reset tactics along the way. If I say "would you like to work on the items x, y, and z for your menu?" and she replies "no, stop, I don't want to do y at all. Let's do z later. Let's work on x today." That is all normal project conversation. I heard the word 'stop' and I let her set the direction. No foul and no harm. You have to be open to the other person's objections. And in the big picture the model is the boss, not me. I'm the worker, albeit I have a lot of ideas. But she has to be comfortable with everything and agree to it in advance.

There is no sex in any of the above. This isn't about sexual boundaries or going private. The model is trying to improve her show. It's a project for her business.

At the moment to me you look like someone who are under the impression that you are the only one that can uplift these models who are doing things the wrong way from their currently miserable position in the camming world. This might not be the case but that is the perception that I currently have off you and your last few posts has done nothing to change it.

That is useful feedback and that is sad that I come across that way. My own impression is that virtually anyone could help the models to do what I am doing, and no one else cares enough to try. It is not about my having unique knowledge. It is about my caring enough to help. I get something out of this too, so it is not pure charity work either.

 

[curvyredhead]

why are you on a forum you think is so negative? or "where no one ever has anything positive to say about anyone"

 

[AudriTwo]

So I granted her point and asked her for help with the choice of words, and what did I get back?

An honest reaction on how you choose to express yourself on a forum. Don't be a drama queen.

 

[Smores]

why are you on a forum you think is so negative? or "where no one ever has anything positive to say about anyone"

Because I wanted to learn about the webcam business, but I also wanted to understand how models think about these issues and what kinds of issues are hot buttons. The fact that I set people off so easily here is actually part of my education. I'm struggling to make adjustments, but I do want to make adjustments to how I show empathy.

 

[curvyredhead]

wanted...as in....past dense?

 

[Smores]

wanted...as in....past dense?

Wanted and still want

 

[Lintilla]

no one else cares enough to try

Nah, dude. Most people know better and have appropriate boundaries.

 

[curvyredhead]

Why?

 

[Gen]

Nah, dude. Most people know better and have appropriate boundaries.

Also it’s not like this is some noble pursuit. You aren’t teaching illiterate kids to read or helping old ladies across the street. Don’t act like holier-than-thou for helping girls get naked in a new way, lol.

 

[AmberCutie]

So I granted her point and asked her for help with the choice of words, and what did I get back?

Wat.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

You are great.

Thank you, you are very nice for saying that and I like you too.

There is no project anywhere where two people involved in that project do not need to reset goals and expectations and reset tactics along the way. If I say "would you like to work on the items x, y, and z for your menu?" and she replies "no, stop, I don't want to do y at all. Let's do z later. Let's work on x today." That is all normal project conversation. I heard the word 'stop' and I let her set the direction. No foul and no harm. You have to be open to the other person's objections. And in the big picture the model is the boss, not me. I'm the worker, albeit I have a lot of ideas. But she has to be comfortable with everything and agree to it in advance.

There is no sex in any of the above. This isn't about sexual boundaries or going private. The model is trying to improve her show. It's a project for her business.

It feels like you are treating her as a project and if she is the boss she shouldn't need to agree to anything, she should be the one who is setting goals. You are not very good at explaining what you are doing for these models that is beneficial to them.

That is useful feedback and that is sad that I come across that way. My own impression is that virtually anyone could help the models to do what I am doing, and no one else cares enough to try. It is not about my having unique knowledge. It is about my caring enough to help. I get something out of this too, so it is not pure charity work either.

What are you getting of it then if you are just teaching basic stuff that anyone could teach them but they are too lazy to learn by themselves? It doesn't sound like there is a whole lot to learn from them. Are they giving you money or content for your services?

 

[Smores]

It feels like you are treating her as a project and if she is the boss she shouldn't need to agree to anything, she should be the one who is setting goals. You are not very good at explaining what you are doing for these models that is beneficial to them.

Typically we are growing viewer traffic in the room from 20 to 50 viewers up to north of 500 and finding the best ways to monetize that traffic. Why do we need to go into the 20 detailed steps from point A to point B? It was not even supposed to be the topic of this thread. Yet another derailment.

What are you getting of it then if you are just teaching basic stuff that anyone could teach them but they are too lazy to learn by themselves? It doesn't sound like there is a whole lot to learn from them. Are they giving you money or content for your services?

For everything that works well, you do five things that do not work at all. That reflects my lack of experience. I learn the things that work and the things that do not work. I get some valuable experience from that. But it's experience about the customer behavior and what triggers that behavior.

I have never asked for payment, and I don't think any entry-level model has anything that would be interesting to me financially. I am usually one of her top 20 customers on a regular basis. Going into these projects, I would say it was 1/4 for fun, 1/4 because I really liked the models I helped and saw that they had huge talent but unrealized as financial success, and 1/2 because I wanted the experience.to use in the future on a possible project.

 

[Smores]

Wat.

She is saying the way I express the ideas I make creeps her out. I am asking her how I could express those ideas with empathy and respect towards the model. But no one actually wants to solve any real problem or help me to be more empathetic. Most of this conversation is just about setting up cheap shots on me with no real intention to fix anything. I would be more than happy to learn how to express the ideas I was trying to make in a more empathetic way.

 

[curvyredhead]

I think you may have missed my question @Smores .... why? Why do you wana "learn about the webcam business, but I also wanted to understand how models think about these issues and what kinds of issues are hot buttons"

Typically we are growing viewer traffic.

Also...lol @ we

 

[a_haze420]

Dude. Stop saying models are "projects" ugh so creepy.

 

[Smores]

I think you may have missed my question @Smores .... why? Why do you wana "learn about the webcam business, but I also wanted to understand how models think about these issues and what kinds of issues are hot buttons"

It was already in this thread. I have a business idea I would like to try out that will require me to understand those things.

 

[Smores]

Dude. Stop saying models are "projects" ugh so creepy.

The model is not a project. The work we do together toward some shared goal is the project. What words should I be using?

 

[Smores]

Nah, dude. Most people know better and have appropriate boundaries.

If the model asks me to help improve her results, I should always refuse? No one should ever help other people? Really?

I think there is a really good point here on boundaries, but the boundary is not about do you help or not help someone who asks for help. The boundary problem is once she asks me to help, then how do I set appropriate boundaries around what I am and am not allowed to do. That requires really good communication both ways, and I feel like those boundaries are not being well communicated to me in some cases. How do I help the model to communicate and set those boundaries? I am all ears. I want to set appropriate boundaries after I start helping someone.

 

[Osyrus]

I have tried to think of a more invasive, inappropriate, annoying boner killer than getting a PM from some random dude when I’m making it rain on a girl...and I can’t. That would make me quit the room immediately. I can’t imagine I’m alone in this?

yeaaaa, this is spot on, more importantly I wonder if the model knows about these "how would you rate" PM's

 

[curvyredhead]

It was already in this thread. I have a business idea I would like to try out that will require me to understand those things.

And do you think that given how negative you think this forum is...its a source for the information you desire?

The model is not a project. The work we do together toward some shared goal is the project. What words should I be using?

none

 

[Smores]

yeaaaa, this is spot on, more importantly I wonder if the model knows about these "how would you rate" PM's

Of course the model knows! That would be a huge violation of trust to ask questions behind her back.

Let me give an example of one of those interactions and how it was a positive experience all around. The member had been coming in regularly and throwing typically 500 to 1500 tokens per session. He obviously likes her a lot and she has told me she really enjoys the conversations with him. He and I have great and friendly conversations in the public room. I contacted him at the end of a show and I asked him did he have any ideas on how she could improve her show. What he told me was invaluable. He loved interacting with her but hated how she was constantly going into private chats in the middle of the show. He felt it was hurting the continuity of her show and made it hard to have the extended conversations he wanted to have. I am not agreeing or disagreeing. I just listened and got his permission to share it with her and he agreed to that.

She heard that story, and she and I discussed it. She decided to raise her private rate in order to give more time in her chat room and that seems to have addressed the concern. All of that mirrors what other models here on ACF have stated in various threads about the same issue.

In any business, you learn about what customers want by talking to customers. Should the model do that? Yes. Do all models do that? No. This model did not really have the experience to do that well, and she saw the value in it. So far there has not been a single negative experience, but maybe the reason for that is that I am being very careful to only talk to people who have a very positive vibe and seem open to lots of different types of conversations. Who knows. Batting 5 for 5 so far.

 

[Smores]

And do you think that given how negative you think this forum is...its a source for the information you desire?

That's you putting negative spins on my words. ACF is a fine place to get information about webcam modeling.

I need to work on my empathy. I need to work on how I express certain ideas. If no one wants to help me do that, then that becomes my problem alone to solve.

none

So if you do not have a better word for two people working together on steps toward a common goal, then why criticize the word that 99% of people use to describe such goal based collaborations? 'Project' is not a dirty word.

 

[dark_mermaid]

If the model asks me to help improve her results, I should always refuse? No one should ever help other people? Really?

In the case of Eastern European studio models, yes, you and everyone else should say no. I've told you before in another thread how I can hear the studio owner who doesn't care and invest one bit into how these girls make their money laughing in the background and counting his cash.

You just do not realize how the whole system is designed for guys like you. The girls are just the pretty looking and clueless tool that are there to create exactly the emotional dilemma that you just described perfectly. You're not "helping" the girl, you're helping the guy in the background. As a former girl from that system I'm telling you, we are specificially trained to attract "heroes" (look a bit sad, ask for help etc.). You're totally caught by this. In your defense you're not the only one, plenty of guys wanna "help" us. There are even more here in the forum than I expected when I signed up. Yes, the system works.

Do what you wanna do with independent girls. If you have a regional preference for Eastern Europe, there are plenty of independent girls from the region too.

The girls WILL survive and WILL find another job or cam independently. They're just too lazy if they don't. We don't starve in Eastern Europe.

In a best case scenario that particular studio goes out of business or invests in really helping the girls and not just putting them there. From what I've heard and read there are better and worse studios in the region and it looks like you're supporting the bad one. Stop that.