Why aren't trans women allowed models only access?

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I always assumed that MO was for posts that potentially contianed
personally identifiable information.

Well now you know it's where we all talk about our vulvas in great detail.

 

[SaffronBurke]

I always assumed that MO was for posts that potentially contianed
personally identifiable information.

It's actually highly recommended that we DON'T include such information, because of the potential of someone leaking it, since people are people and leaks do happen.

There is, however, period talk in almost every subforum, because folks with vaginas tend to bleed from them pretty often.

 

[Guy]

It's actually highly recommended that we DON'T include such information, because of the potential of someone leaking it, since people are people and leaks do happen.

Have there been cases of models outing other models? (I mean anywhere on the internet)

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Have there been cases of models outing other models? (I mean anywhere on the internet)

Definitely absolutely 100%.

 

[Issa]

I feel like a huge majority of the verified models on ACF feel the same as you. Hence my hesitance to jump right into it, and taking so long to try to find a hard solution. I hate to say I feel like I am disrupting a large crowd to appease a smaller crowd, but in the end I it's something that has to be done for the changing modern times.

Stripperweb is much different than ACF in that ALL model posts are publicly viewable. I know they have a verified cam girl group but there's like, what, 20 girls in that? A different feel than the hundreds we've had active at any given time here. So I am sorry if anyone feels that dynamic is changing. We will still have a lot of the same aspects in the revised models only areas, I promise. Just a little adjustment will be necessary.

It's a consideration to simply move every MO post to an archive, and only repost certain super-helpful posts over anonymously to their coordinating cam site subforums. I'm not completely confirmed on that process, I'll ask for more input soon.

As far as completely female-only areas, the MyFreeCams subforum would technically be the only space for that.

Something like 200 models in the SW verified section and fairly active these days, but you are correct in your assumption that it's not anywhere near the activity level of ACF's MO section. Also, the verified section of SW allows both cis- and trans-female models, but no male members.

To be completely frank with you, I think that you're taking a bit too much of an either/or approach to this. The inclusion of a handful of trans-female models in the current section is far less disruptive to me (and other models I've spoken to) than is a complete overhaul of the forum that would mix male and female models together.

With the exception of MFC (which only allows cis-females to stream), you're suggesting that all subforums by site would allow both female and male models. I think that poses a couple of problems. One (and most obvious) is that it's likely to drive away female models (and I include trans-women here, btw) from the forums altogether because they'll feel their safe spaces have been destroyed. Two, outside of platform and tech, there's not a huge overlap between male and female model experiences. The client base, hustle, physical requirements, etc., are very different, and I think those differences deserve their own subsections by gender.

It might help drive the discussion more pointedly if you could give us your working outline of what the new subsections would be and who would be allowed in each. Right now, I think I'm making suggestions based on incomplete information.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Well from what it sounds like, she wasn't ready to drive the discussion at the moment lol.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

I don't know how this fits into the previous discussion

that's why I was hoping to explore it in the appropriate place (see comment re PM/subforum). no one likes notifications for off-topic replies

 

[Shia]

It's a consideration to simply move every MO post to an archive, and only repost certain super-helpful posts over anonymously to their coordinating cam site subforums.

I honestly think that is the best solution for the majority of models who are stressed about this. I am all for allowing trans and male cam models in but I would feel comfortable with a clean slate.

 

[Keziah]

I honestly think that is the best solution for the majority of models who are stressed about this. I am all for allowing trans and male cam models in but I would feel comfortable with a clean slate.

Seconding the clean slate. I think it would be easier on Amber and make everyone more comfortable.

Plus shiny new forums

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Reorganizing 7 years of posts. You're going to need to stock up on more wine Amber.

I would be happy to volunteer my time to help re-organize exclusive content from MO. I am even willing to wear a dress while I do it, if that makes everyone more comfortable.

Small price to pay to find out if any of my usernames are on that ban list...

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

I would be happy to volunteer my time to help re-organize exclusive content from MO. I am even willing to wear a dress while I do it, if that makes everyone more comfortable.

me, too. except, maybe just a teddy and some cute panties, not a dress. I'm more slutty than classy

 

[maria herna]

Im a trans, MTF, im so happy about this thread.
Trans women ARE women and genitals don't define gender!!!!!
Im a camgirl like every girl here!
Look my ass in pic! do you think is it different from anyother camgirl!? do you think im a man?
yes I have a very little cock..and.. just because of it..am I a man?!
this is not correct.. I think its not correct that MTF like me cant have access to "model section" or cant brodcast in MFC.
I totally respect the decision, but its not correct.
there is a huge difference between a crossdress ( man that hope to be a woman) and a real MTF ( a real girl!!!)
genitals don't define gender!!!!! my body, my feet, my eyes, my minds, my legs, my ass, my thought define my gender.


It should be given the opportunity to be recognized as a model.
the boundary line should be the answer to the question: how much are you femine and girly?
if MTF is objectively very beautiful, with an incredibly feminine body and face it should be recognized as a model.
but if it's in front of a man who in the morning you woke up and want to wear a bra, then it is obvious that what can not be recognized as a model! this is the "line"
but to the very feminine trans it should be given the opportunity

 

[MFCGod]

The great thing about the internet is there's nothing stopping you from creating your own forum and running it exactly how you think it should be run

If the technical process of setting up and running a forum is too much, you might consider creating a subreddit

If I was really unhappy with how this forum was run, I would leave

If I really wanted somewhere run exactly how I wanted it to run, I would make it myself

 

[MiaFoxUK]

I LOVE the current set up, it sounds like a massive job to reorganise everything! I hadnt actually realised trans women were not in the MO section and I feel a bit shitty for that, sorry ladies! If the MO section is women only then I do believe that ALL women should be allowed in, so long as they can pass verification, and obviously that goes for anyone applying.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

the boundary line should be the answer to the question: how much are you femine and girly?
if MTF is objectively very beautiful, with an incredibly feminine body and face it should be recognized as a model.
but if it's in front of a man who in the morning you woke up and want to wear a bra, then it is obvious that what can not be recognized as a model! this is the "line"
but to the very feminine trans it should be given the opportunity

Curious...how masculine/tomboyish is a woman allowed to appear before she will no longer qualify? (by that I mean women who were born with vaginas)

If the genitalia are no longer suitable as an indication of gender, well I don't see why the hell any other physical characteristics should count either.

 

[MFCGod]

Why do we continually peg trans women as being possibly dangerous?.

I think for most people it's not the legitimate trans women who are seen as dangerous, it's the men who would pretend to be trans women

Men are the villains of the piece, not trans women

 

[maria herna]

Curious...how masculine/tomboyish is a woman allowed to appear before she will no longer qualify? (by that I mean women who were born with vaginas)

If the genitalia are no longer suitable as an indication of gender, well I don't see why the hell any other physical characteristics should count either.

its not only genitals that make a girl a girl, or a man a man, or MTF a girl...or a FTM a man!!
genitals are the last thing! 1%!!
woman is a woman beacuse she has feminine face, legs, hairs, hands, smile, minds..!!!
so.. a man with a thong cant be considered a woman, or a man with bra, or a man with wig. he's not a woman.
a man with masculine body and maybe also plastic surgery tits.. its not a woman!!
damn!
its a woman a person that when wears a thong, or a skirt, or heels is incredibly sexy and hot. this is a woman in webcam!!!
and this should be line to define a girl model.
its just my opinion.


for example years ago, before starting CB, I did many private show like "real girl".. I didnt say to customer that I was a MTF.. I didnt show never my genitals..and every customer was so happy just for my smile or tits or lips... I did it just for curiosity... and to prove to myself how much can be a woman...and this is the line...

naturally we speak about cam..about internet... where only body is important (99%)... in reality its naturally different..

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I think for most people it's not the legitimate trans women who are seen as dangerous, it's the men who would pretend to be trans women

Men are the villains of the piece, not trans women

Hahaha I originally, flippantly replied to this thread saying, "Blame men. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" but tbh...

This thread notwithstanding.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

I don't think it has ever been about excluding trans women, or any gender-identifying people who exist, regardless of that identity. It has been about a definitive way to verify someone as a performer versus an overly-curious (and potentially ill-intentioned) ...non-performer.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

its not only genitals that make a girl a girl, or a man a man, or MTF a girl...or a FTM a man!!
genitals are the last thing! 1%!!
woman is a woman beacuse she has feminine face, legs, hairs, hands, smile, minds..!!!
so.. a man with a thong cant be considered a woman, or a man with bra, or a man with wig. he's not a woman.
a man with masculine body and maybe also plastic surgery tits.. its not a woman!!
damn!
its a woman a person that when wears a thong, or a skirt, or heels is incredibly sexy and hot. this is a woman in webcam!!!
and this should be line to define a girl model.
its just my opinion.


for example years ago, before starting CB, I did many private show like "real girl".. I didnt say to customer that I was a MTF.. I didnt show never my genitals..and every customer was so happy just for my smile or tits or lips... I did it just for curiosity... and to prove to myself how much can be a woman...and this is the line...

naturally we speak about cam..about internet... where only body is important (99%)... in reality its naturally different..

Yes. I understand. Only it seems strange to me to reject genitals, and then use smile or tits or lips as defining factors. Seems hypocritical.

So if is "passable", is a girl. If is not "incredibly sexy and hot", is not a girl.

 

[Lexi Emerson]

I would be happy to volunteer my time to help re-organize exclusive content from MO. I am even willing to wear a dress while I do it, if that makes everyone more comfortable.

Small price to pay to find out if any of my usernames are on that ban list...

I know you're making a funny but I feel like I should mention that Amber doesn't allow "ban lists". We don't have a masterlist of baddies or anything, it wouldn't be fair without members getting to share their side of the story.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

Im a trans, MTF, im so happy about this thread.
Trans women ARE women and genitals don't define gender!!!!!

what does? (it's such a simply stated question you could read the wrong tone into it, but it doesn't really need to be drawn out any more than that.)

Look my ass in pic! do you think is it different from anyother camgirl!? do you think im a man?

if my butt look better in panties than some girls do does that mean I'm no longer a man? does the way an ass looks in a pic define what a man is and thereby disqualify the very possibility of my being one? I'm not saying I am a man (my profile pic is me), I just don't know what word to use.

 

[Magnolia]

I am of the belief that all sex workers are equal and deserve equal access regardless of gender identities and genitalia. That being said, models post in model's only with the expectation that ONLY fellow female models will be reading them, and there lies the problem. To open up years of posts with those expectations already placed I think would be wrong and against what any model had in mind when making those posts, essentially betraying the trust of expected privacy.

I think all the important industry information, discussions, and resources should absolutely be available for all sex workers who care to get verified. I don't run a forum and I'm not experienced in such things, but I feel like maybe a solution would be to create a NEW model's only. Include all the important threads and such from the current one, but allow those who expected privacy to be able to keep it locked away. Or even whole different sections for Trans Model's Only and Male Model's Only, where women cannot go.

While I personally wouldn't mind sex workers of all types having access to model's only, it's been clearly stated that some other ladies do. I respect @AmberCutie for keeping her word about maintaining access to model's only to just women, because that's what the women posting there expected at the time.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

...Or even whole different sections for Trans Model's Only and Male Model's Only, where women cannot go.

the only reason I'm against that idea is because I can't think of what I could (never mind would) possibly say that I should feel I have to hide from all women.

something about grabbing them by the pussy?

 

[MiaFoxUK]

This forum still needs a safe place for women, this is the main reason I post here if im honest, even if the old part is archived, if men can access all future sections I know for a fact my site activity would significantly decrease

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

what does? (it's such a simply stated question you could read the wrong tone into it, but it doesn't really need to be drawn out any more than that.)



if my butt look better in panties than some girls do does that mean I'm no longer a man? does the way an ass looks in a pic define what a man is and thereby disqualify the very possibility of my being one? I'm not saying I am a man (my profile pic is me), I just don't know what word to use.

Excuse what I expect to be a misformatted response but,

What defines gender identity is someone's identity. It. Is. Personal. If someone identifies as a woman, they are a woman. If they identify as something else, that is what they identify as. They are the only person who can tell you what their identity is. For someone who is arguing so hard for individual gender identity, you seem to miss the concept entirely in application.

To touch on the point regarding your ass in panties vs. anyone else's ass in panties... How is that relevant? Subjective level of attractiveness in an item of clothing has nothing to do with gender identity.

You are not winning yourself any points in favor of the argument you think you are making.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

What defines gender identity is someone's identity. It. Is. Personal. If someone identifies as a woman, they are a woman. If they identify as something else, that is what they identify as. They are the only person who can tell you what their identity is. For someone who is arguing so hard for individual gender identity, you seem to miss the concept entirely in application.

that sounds terribly tautological (you all but repeated yourself save for falsely generalizing (unless you really mean to imply national identity and racial identity other such identities do not exist and that the totality of a person's identity is their gender identity...'my identity defines my gender identity' to rephrase your assertion (not terribly helpful, but at least not a tautology)).
what does that meaning? What is this 'woman' (or 'man') that is being identified with? If I was talking to some backwater simpleton who said vagina=woman I would know exactly what this 'man' being spoken about was, whether or not I agree with him, I would comprehend his sentences. But that is not the kind of perspective you have, nor the one that interests and mystifies me.

I can't identify as flassinfelber until that German-looking noise I transcribed off the top of my head actually has some sort of linguistic cognition for me. Is there any reason to assert 'man' is not a noise that holds to the same basic expectations? that 'man' is somehow arbitrary and meaningless, yet vital!?

is being a marxist or a racist not personal? it's a part of a person's identity- or, by contrast, you can say 'no, you are wrong to claim that is part of my identity, and here is why...I believe such and such about race/politics, therefore I cannot be what you claim...'. It's well established that many people in mental asylums have the identity of being Jesus Christ. We, however, feel no compunctions about saying that, though they believe they are that, they are wrong in claiming that identity. Likewise, we would feel comfortable in saying 'you're right' if you told us you are not Jesus Christ. I've never heard an account of what the woman's identity is (except for the simpleton's 1950s account), nor this taxonomy where one cannot be wrong in asserting one is one.

To touch on the point regarding your ass in panties vs. anyone else's ass in panties... How is that relevant?

it was proposed that I could determine someone's gender based on the appearance of their rear end...
I see now they didn't mean aesthetics. what variable was being hinted towards? (this is the problem of being vague, you leave it up to the audience to try to guess what you mean because you don't say what you mean.)

You are not winning yourself any points in favor of the argument you think you are making.

I suspect you think I'm arguing something I'm not (I'd rather dialogue in PM/appropriate place than take this thread off topic)

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

that sounds terribly tautological (you all but repeated yourself save for falsely generalizing (unless you really mean to imply national identity and racial identity other such identities do not exist and that the totality of a person's identity is their gender identity...'my identity defines my gender identity' to rephrase your assertion (not terribly helpful, but at least not a tautology)).
what does that meaning? What is this 'woman' (or 'man') that is being identified with? If I was talking to some backwater simpleton who said vagina=woman I would know exactly what this 'man' being spoken about was, whether or not I agree with him, I would comprehend his sentences. But that is not the kind of perspective you have, nor the one that interests and mystifies me.

I can't identify as flassinfelber until that German-looking noise I transcribed off the top of my head actually has some sort of linguistic cognition for me. Is there any reason to assert 'man' is not a noise that holds to the same basic expectations? that 'man' is somehow arbitrary and meaningless, yet vital!?

is being a marxist or a racist not personal? it's a part of a person's identity- or, by contrast, you can say 'no, you are wrong to claim that is part of my identity, and here is why...I believe such and such about race/politics, therefore I cannot be what you claim...'. It's well established that many people in mental asylums have the identity of being Jesus Christ. We, however, feel no compunctions about saying that, though they believe they are that, they are wrong in claiming that identity. Likewise, we would feel comfortable in saying 'you're right' if you told us you are not Jesus Christ. I've never heard an account of what the woman's identity is (except for the simpleton's 1950s account), nor this taxonomy where one cannot be wrong in asserting one is one.


it was proposed that I could determine someone's gender based on the appearance of their rear end...
I see now they didn't mean aesthetics. what variable was being hinted towards? (this is the problem of being vague, you leave it up to the audience to try to guess what you mean because you don't say what you mean.)


I suspect you think I'm arguing something I'm not (I'd rather dialogue in PM/appropriate place than take this thread off topic)

I don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry that you feel excluded because you are nonbinary and sexwork often defines us by a gender binary? I can't rewrite the world for you here. My point the entire time was, trans women identify as women and are women...

 

[BiancaBaker]

This forum still needs a safe place for women, this is the main reason I post here if im honest, even if the old part is archived, if men can access all future sections I know for a fact my site activity would significantly decrease

THIS.

There are certain threads where I will probably never post again and it saddens me because I know the helpful information I give but I can't risk certain things getting leaked. I probably won't post ANY thing personal at all anymore and that saddens me immensely.

 

[Nikola Tesla]

some backwater simpleton who said vagina=woman

Not everyone that has this belief is a backwater simpleton.
Now you are becoming insulting.