Transgender models can't get verified here?

[Rose]

I just wanted to point out that in the wiki rules, they don't specify. I understand why some choose (or not) to have surgery, but if you have had surgery and are legally female and have female anatomy, then you could cam on MFC. That was my point, just in very little words.

Actually according to that screenshot, they do specify it - both in the 'gender' section (stating that they don't accept transgender models) and also closing the door for post-op transgender models by adding one detail under the 'sexual orientation' header, by specifying that they only accept "natural-born female models" (they probably haven't used 'cisgendered' there because the term is not as widely known).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm fairly certain that means for those who aren't legally recognized as female and have not yet had any surgery. My interpretation of that rule means that if said person is legally recognized as female and has the parts to match, then they can cam on MFC.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I just wanted to point out that in the wiki rules, they don't specify. I understand why some choose (or not) to have surgery, but if you have had surgery and are legally female and have female anatomy, then you could cam on MFC. That was my point, just in very little words.

Actually according to that screenshot, they do specify it - both in the 'gender' section (stating that they don't accept transgender models) and also closing the door for post-op transgender models by adding one detail under the 'sexual orientation' header, by specifying that they only accept "natural-born female models" (they probably haven't used 'cisgendered' there because the term is not as widely known).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm fairly certain that means for those who aren't legally recognized as female and have not yet had any surgery. My interpretation of that rule means that if said person is legally recognized as female and has the parts to match, then they can cam on MFC.

I think what they are going for is 'born with a vag' but it doesn't say that specifically and I'd consider any transgender woman a natural born female. As a porn site, I think we all have to respect their basic 'no penis' rule though. It's superficial but let's face it, the adult industry is based almost entirely on superficial. In the business of sex, genitalia matters.

 

[KylieJacobs]

And if a verification process is super detailed, it takes some organization (cough cough the government) weeks or a month to do something like that, and this forum is run by one camgirl. It's a thousand times easier for her if she can just verify people who have already been verified by another site as female.

Right now there are two sections where people can mainly post, the General Camming Discussion and Ask-a-Model. I think if we, the models, collectively helped out a little bit more in those forums, it would give a better sense of place for anyone who can't make it into the Models Only section for whatever reason. :twocents-02cents:

I agree to both of these!

 

[Rose]

I just wanted to point out that in the wiki rules, they don't specify. I understand why some choose (or not) to have surgery, but if you have had surgery and are legally female and have female anatomy, then you could cam on MFC. That was my point, just in very little words.

Actually according to that screenshot, they do specify it - both in the 'gender' section (stating that they don't accept transgender models) and also closing the door for post-op transgender models by adding one detail under the 'sexual orientation' header, by specifying that they only accept "natural-born female models" (they probably haven't used 'cisgendered' there because the term is not as widely known).

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm fairly certain that means for those who aren't legally recognized as female and have not yet had any surgery. My interpretation of that rule means that if said person is legally recognized as female and has the parts to match, then they can cam on MFC.

I think what they are going for is 'born with a vag' but it doesn't say that specifically and I'd consider any transgender woman a natural born female. As a porn site, I think we all have to respect their basic 'no penis' rule though. It's superficial but let's face it, the adult industry is based almost entirely on superficial. In the business of sex, genitalia matters.

That's pretty much what I was saying and thinking as well, but I'm a lot worse with words. Hah. Thanks!

 

[DeezNA]

 

[SoTxBob]

So much PC banter .... seems like a simple "these are the rules, deal with it" would fit. Those that dont agree are always free to start their own forums. :confusion-shrug:

Sorry if my muddy boots have soiled your white carpet.... :whistle:

 

[Sevrin]

So much PC banter .... seems like a simple "these are the rules, deal with it" would fit. Those that dont agree are always free to start their own forums. :confusion-shrug:

Sorry if my muddy boots have soiled your white carpet.... :whistle:

Speaking of white...

Rules can and do change over time. That's why, on MFC's rule page, there is the language "NOT currently accepting trans-gendered models".

In the meantime, I have no doubt that some currently active models would have a problem with anyone but cisgendered females having access to MO.

 

[DeezNA]

Okay, I was gonna just make an appearance, slip in and out, thus the gifs above... but then, on second thought, here I am again.

As a fellow model who is not allowed in MO - If you need help, the models here are very helpful. Don't be afraid to ask questions, even if you don't have access to MO (which sucks, I know), that doesn't mean you are prohibited from assistance and are not accepted in the community. I'm living proof of this. If anything it's kind of a chore for the models *with* MO access to have to answer the same questions over and over again without being able to just send a link to an in-depth thread... but the information is there and easily transferable either by a new thread or by PM.

Yeah, it sucks that only specific models have direct access to MO. That doesn't reflect on who you are as a person or as a professional. I've received a LOT of incredibly helpful feedback that has helped me vastly through this forum with full acceptance that there is a good chance I will never be allowed into MO and that's completely okay with me.

In short - if you need help, suggestions, recommendations, etc, we're here for you in every capacity we can be. Regardless of gender identity or official model status, don't be afraid to ask for help.

 

[exclusivebabi]

You cannot fake a legal Transgender. They have the ID, he'll even the surgery. If they are LEGALLY female they should be allowed in the camgirl model only section. It doesn't make any sense to say you can fake that. Just ask for a valid government ID, check their twitter feed if legit.

 

[Gen]

So much PC banter .... seems like a simple "these are the rules, deal with it" would fit. Those that dont agree are always free to start their own forums. :confusion-shrug:

Sorry if my muddy boots have soiled your white carpet.... :whistle:

Starting a new forum is a good idea but this one is filled to the brim with information, tips & networking opportunities for models. We all suggest to our friends who start camming "come join ACF & get verified" because it's (imo) the most comprehensive, popular place for that stuff. That was built up over time by Amber & the help of other models. A new forum wouldn't have all the past info and the big membership that this one does, so while I think it'd be awesome if there was a forum for male or trans models, it isn't a substitute.

Also that "PC banter" is someones life - a lot of models (the ones who would be affected by any change to Amber's policy, whereas members wouldnt) have strong feelings about it and the ~banter~ is important to us. I appreciate that Amber was willing to reiterate & explain her reasoning and I imagine other models (hopefully including OP) were, too.

I agree with Lolli fullstop, but I also agree with Tallula that we can help beef up the public section by answering questions and making more threads like the Streamate and Clips4Sale ones! I'll make an effort to answer questions & help add more resources to the public section.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

You cannot fake a legal Transgender. They have the ID, he'll even the surgery. If they are LEGALLY female they should be allowed in the camgirl model only section. It doesn't make any sense to say you can fake that. Just ask for a valid government ID, check their twitter feed if legit.

Technically no surgery is required to change gender on most forms of ID. I believe the exception to that is a Birth Certificate. But simply having a doctor's written testimony saying you are transgender is enough to get a Driver's License and passport changed.

On June 9, 2010, the U.S. State Department stopped requiring proof of SRS for issuing passports and consular birth certificates to transgender people and began asking instead for proof of “appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition to the new gender”—better reflecting the individualized nature of treatment for gender transition

These rules are different from state to state as well. Departments of Motor Vehicles in about half the states have removed surgical requirements completely for those applying to change their gender marker on their drivers’ licenses.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/identity-document-faq

So a person, who currently has a penis, could have all the identification required to sign up on MFC as female.



Yes, I know this does not apply to the OP's case.

 

[caireen]

You cannot fake a legal Transgender. They have the ID, he'll even the surgery. If they are LEGALLY female they should be allowed in the camgirl model only section. It doesn't make any sense to say you can fake that. Just ask for a valid government ID, check their twitter feed if legit.

Technically no surgery is required to change gender on most forms of ID. I believe the exception to that is a Birth Certificate. But simply having a doctor's written testimony saying you are transgender is enough to get a Driver's License and passport changed.

On June 9, 2010, the U.S. State Department stopped requiring proof of SRS for issuing passports and consular birth certificates to transgender people and began asking instead for proof of “appropriate clinical treatment for gender transition to the new gender”—better reflecting the individualized nature of treatment for gender transition

These rules are different from state to state as well. Departments of Motor Vehicles in about half the states have removed surgical requirements completely for those applying to change their gender marker on their drivers’ licenses.

http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/identity-document-faq

So a person, who currently has a penis, could have all the identification required to sign up on MFC as female.



Yes, I know this does not apply to the OP's case.

I feel like, penis or no penis, anyone who has had their sex legally changed to female is female "enough". They are a woman, and that's it. No one is going to go through that process- it is not as easy as making an appointment at a walk-in clinic- if they are not female.

And as for the MFC rules- I think they are just really ignorant. The admins probably don't realize that many transwomen who have had surgery have a perfect vagina and can completely pass for a cisgendered female.

I am all for transwomen who are legally women having access to MO. I am all for ALL transwomen having access but I agree that verification gets a little tricky.

 

[Rose]

Linkage, for any gender looking to cam on Streamate and/or start a studio on Clips4sale. We DO have threads on these in the public section and the girls who started the threads are definitely willing to help answer any questions they can. Don't be afraid to ask questions, we'll do what we can to help. Both sites currently accept any and all genders and they're both high traffic sites with potential for high profit. Figured I'd repost these links for anyone newer to the forums and needing guidance. :thumbleft:

For Streamate cammers: https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=17239
For Clips4sale cammers: https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=17890

 

[JoleneBrody]

I am all for ALL transwomen having access but I agree that verification gets a little tricky.

This last part here, specifically in regards to ACF is the thing I think we all have to try and remember. We can come up with a million ideas for ways to verify transwomen for MO outside the current verification process but in the end, we are all just working up ideas for someone else's work load (Amber) and that's unfair to Amber.

 

[camstory]

I have been biting my lip for 2 days, and just have to say something. I'm not going to comment on how exactly I feel about the question, though I have some very strong feelings, I don't see what business it is of mine. And bottom line it's Ambers sandbox...

I had 3 paragraphs here, but I'll simply say security reasons are, in my deviant opinion not a good argument. Models only is not the Manhattan project.
And, there are easier ways in than trying to sneak in as a trans model.

 

[nzhere]

I remember way back when we were taught "Boys have a penis, Girls have a vagina" and that WAS all we needed to know....

Just sayin
:twocents-02cents:

 

[Gen]

I remember way back when we were taught "Boys have a penis, Girls have a vagina" and that WAS all we needed to know....

Just sayin
:twocents-02cents:

And thankfully that is changing, so hopefully the disproportionately massive suicide & violence rates affecting transgender people will be reduced.

 

[SexySteph]

I had 3 paragraphs here, but I'll simply say security reasons are, in my deviant opinion not a good argument. Models only is not the Manhattan project.

No, you're right, it's not. But it is a safe place for many women and having men there (which allowing trans models in increases the risk of) sort of destroys that safe place.

In a perfect world trans models could be verified without risks increasing, but as long as some members are willing to do anything to get in, it's just going to be a hard thing to pull off without Amber doing a TON of work.

 

[VallieBeuys]

Honestly, considering the trouble we've had with already verified models in MO I don't think security is a good enough reason. I totally hear what Jolene is saying, in that all we can do is brainstorm ideas but ultimately the work is on Amber's shoulders. I absolutely get that, and can appreciate all the work that goes into running this place and keeping us all as safe as possible. But saying "well men might try to get in" just isn't good enough to me. Men already try to get in. So do shitty, dishonest women. Why is a trans woman more of a risk than any other stranger we don't know who gets MO verification? Why is an image of a girl holding a sign with her name on it good enough for non MFC models to get verified, but not good enough for a trans model? I don't care what she has in her pants, genitals are totally irrelevant to womanhood. Every time a new girl is let into the sanctuary we're taking a risk. Saying trans women are MORE of a risk doesn't sit right with me at all.

I don't like the idea of being more trusted simply because I was born with genitals that are widely accepted as "female". I don't deserve more trust than a trans woman just because of my sex organs.

All this said, I don't hold this against Amber at all. It's her forum, and it's something she very graciously does in her free time. I am so grateful that this place exists. I just want to share that with other women who could benefit like I have from all the resources here.

In the mean time I think it's wonderful that so many new public threads on camming/clips/etc. have started popping up! That's part of what makes this place so wonderful. We try to find ways to help each other in all situations and that's magical.

 

[TacoBelle]

This is a very sensitive subject to some/most people, and for good reason. However, there are a few things that some of you are not thinking about.

1) This would make Amber's job way harder. She already spends multiple hours two days a week to verify models who already ARE camming and listed as female. If she had to institute a new way to approve trans, it would take her even longer. She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this. Basically, all of the time she spends approving models and doing administration work for ACF is time she could have spent on cam, filming videos, etc. She's actually losing money to make this site available to us.


2) I don't think it's a matter of "You're trans, so we don't trust you." It's a matter of "It's hard to tell who we can trust." And we can't break the rules to allow certain people in that we like/trust/admire, because then everyone would want to get in. Hell, Deez is a very highly admired and respected member of this forum. The models all love his brain. He would be a very welcome addition to Models Only. But that's only because we feel like we know him; he has proven himself. If we were to allow him in, then EVERY man/couple that cams on other sites would want in. So he's excluded. Because those are the pre-set rules.


Yes, hopefully one day, we (models of any gender) will be able to talk about lighting tricks. But until then, arguing about how easy it would be to change the approval process will not help. If it's so easy to make a forum ONLY FOR MODELS, in which models feel SAFE talking about whatever, go ahead and do it. Make your own. Approve whomever you want. But it takes a long time for a person to feel comfortable and safe. And without knowing that every person there had to jump through a determined amount of hoops to be verified, not many people are going to participate.





I'm not trying to pick on anyone or call anyone out. These are just some observations from which I feel everyone would benefit.

 

[Rose]

I think I've found the obvious solution here. Amber, you and Jawbs are never allowed to sleep ever again. It's clear that you must spend every waking minute of your day on the forum. Might as well sell your beds and pillows since you won't be needing them anymore. ;P

 

[JerryBoBerry]

If a woman is legally FEMALE and promotes herself as a woman on the cam site she works on, she's absolutely good to go. If the site she's working on verified her as female and she presents herself that way, I go based off of that. I think MFC was referred to before as an easy means to judge this due to them only accepting female models. If they can be approved on MFC, they're all set here! There are very likely already cam girls whom have been given model status here whom are actually trans, but were approved because they simply verified themselves with me and their cam site as a female.

Just posting this as a reminder for anyone still wanting to get riled up about all this. Amber has already said she'd allow them in. That criteria is simply based on other sites recognizing them as female.

Don't like that they can't get in to the MO section here? Start a letter writing campaign to all the camsites. Cause it's on them now.

 

[exclusivebabi]

She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this.

Except for the MFC sponsor and affiliate banner linking new users and new models to an affiliate earnings on MFC

 

[LilyMarie]

She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this.

Except for the MFC sponsor and affiliate banner linking new users and new models to an affiliate earnings on MFC

Well look who's talking :lol:
I really don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone for using affiliate links...
Amber only has a banner on her site. She doesn't spam people with her affiliate link on Twitter, like other people, for example.

http://i.imgur.com/fnfEiE1.png
http://i.imgur.com/5i7KWXj.png
http://i.imgur.com/2d66m3x.png
etc. etc.

 

[AmberCutie]

She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this.

Except for the MFC sponsor and affiliate banner linking new users and new models to an affiliate earnings on MFC

It's a "BringAFriend" link that may get me a few tokens to my premium account once in a great while, which I then use to tip other models.

So, please.

 

[JoleneBrody]

She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this.

Except for the MFC sponsor and affiliate banner linking new users and new models to an affiliate earnings on MFC

It is a BAF link, the very same BAF link each and every single person can use to get tokens added to a premium account. ACF is not 'Sponsored' by MFC!

Not a single one of us is entitled to be here or has any sort of right to Ambers time. She chooses to give it to us and we should respect it!

Maybe it's because I've been here since before the forum had blown up into the huge source it is today, when it was just a place for Ambers friends and some girl chat tea party time... but my heart is racing over here at the level of utter disrespect that Amber is being show and the COUNTLESS hours she and other models put into things, like the Wiki, for models who were unable to get access to MO. Hours and hours and hours of kindness extended so that people could complain it's still not good enough.

We are privileged to be here, not entitled for crying out loud!
I'm going to go breath into a fricken paper bag and eat some tacos.

 

[Sevrin]

She is not getting paid for the time she spends doing this.

Except for the MFC sponsor and affiliate banner linking new users and new models to an affiliate earnings on MFC

Well look who's talking :lol:
I really don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone for using affiliate links...
Amber only has a banner on her site. She doesn't spam people with her affiliate link on Twitter, like other people, for example.

http://i.imgur.com/fnfEiE1.png
http://i.imgur.com/5i7KWXj.png
http://i.imgur.com/2d66m3x.png
etc. etc.

 

[exclusivebabi]

Well look who's talking :lol:
I really don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone for using affiliate links...
Amber only has a banner on her site. She doesn't spam people with her affiliate link on Twitter, like other people, for example.

How did I criticize? Read my post over and see where I was criticizing.
If someone runs a site I better hope they also can make money doing it as well. Im all for it! I just figured since every page of the forum had a big MFC banner at the top, it was sponsored by MFC (and no other competitors)... Nothing wrong with that at all, its pretty much the only way to make money when you own a forum. LilyMarie stop trolling everything i post.

Dont know whats more sad, you trying to reply at everything I post, or you taking the time to make those screenshots, when I wasn't even being mean in the first place!

@Ambercutie, im not sure why you got so offended...If thats the case its not what I meant. As a newcomer, I see that banner i think you work with MFC or MFC sponsors the Forum to recruit models. If you see Tiger Woods only wearing NIKE, dont you assume he gets paid by NIKE?

 

[AmberCutie]

Well look who's talking :lol:
I really don't think you're in the position to criticize anyone for using affiliate links...
Amber only has a banner on her site. She doesn't spam people with her affiliate link on Twitter, like other people, for example.

How did I criticize? Read my post over and see where I was criticizing.
If someone runs a site I better hope they also can make money doing it as well. Im all for it! I just figured since every page of the forum had a big MFC banner at the top, it was sponsored by MFC (and no other competitors)... Nothing wrong with that at all, its pretty much the only way to make money when you own a forum. LilyMarie stop trolling everything i post.

Dont know whats more sad, you trying to reply at everything I post, or you taking the time to make those screenshots, when I wasn't even being mean in the first place!

@Ambercutie, im not sure why you got so offended...If thats the case its not what I meant. As a newcomer, I see that banner i think you work with MFC or MFC sponsors the Forum to recruit models. If you see Tiger Woods only wearing NIKE, dont you assume he gets paid by NIKE?

I corrected you, that's all. I do not make money from ACF. I pay to keep it up, both in time and money. Just wanted to make sure that's understood.

Not sure why you think I'm "so offended."

Moving on.

 

[weirdbr]

Derailing the topic back into topic ( :lol: )

Yes, hopefully one day, we (models of any gender) will be able to talk about lighting tricks.

I think that if we can take any conclusions out of this discussion is that topics of a technical/non-sensitive nature related to camming could be discussed in the public sections of the forum instead of being in the models only section, which would benefit models of all genders. I'm certain there will be a lot of overlap between what is already posted in MO and what isn't in the public sections, but this is a small price to pay (IMHO) to the benefits this could bring to the whole community while reducing the overhead to Amber. (Sure, there will be a gap initially on what is available on Models Only and what isn't available on the public sections, but this gives an opportunity for models and/or members who want to help out answering those questions)