Was I in the wrong or was she? PVT set as Ticket Show on other site...

[SMuser69]

To the OP. If you don't like how a model is handling a situation leave. There's probably 100 models for 1 member. I personally don't do business with split streaming models as I don't pay for half the attention I should be getting for my tips. When I become aware a model is doing that even if the TOS allows it I don't pay for it and simple move on. They can message you if they wonder what happened.

At the same time don't believe you're a core portion of a models income that you can feel so free to 'suggest' anything. If you leave and they start messaging you why you left or ask you what was an issue THEN you can offer suggestions. You only see what the model allows you to see. Models might have of income sources and being on your site isn't so important at all.

Also if you feel you didn't get what was agreed to ask for a refund from the site support (not the model).

 

[misterical]

The difference here as I have said was that she was inviting others in that would interact, tip for activities and chat on a DIFFERENT site, which isn't a private...it's a group or ticket show.

Well that certainly differs from the "Spy" mode but sounds similar to the Streamate approach (and I think Stripchat too).

 

[misterical]

To the OP. If you don't like how a model is handling a situation leave. There's probably 100 models for 1 member. I personally don't do business with split streaming models as I don't pay for half the attention I should be getting for my tips. When I become aware a model is doing that even if the TOS allows it I don't pay for it and simple move on. They can message you if they wonder what happened.

Quite narrow minded and prejudiced. Most models split stream and most are diligent when it comes to turning off other streams when they go private in one. In the case we are discussing, it sounds like the model made a decision in desperation. I'd say that unless you've sat in a room on your own all day looking at a screen while people beg you for free shit then you should probably be a bit more understanding.

Some models, especially those in Latin America don't have the economic security you do so trying to make a few extra dollars is hardly the crime of the century.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I do agree with vixen that pointing her over here could be super helpful.

Depends who replies, I've seen some pretty cynical advice being given at times.

OP definitely is emotionally entangled here but at the same time, lying to someone who's paying you is just not a good plan. I'd be pissed off if someone did that to me.

Yeah maybe a little, I suppose seeing her in tears the last few days got me in the feels. I know the work can be emotionally taxing, especially when the rooms are dead quiet.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

Some models, especially those in Latin America don't have the economic security you do so trying to make a few extra dollars is hardly the crime of the century.

I agree, I've seen very few models that only stream on one platform, if they do they already have a dedicated fan base and I suppose have no need to divide their time.

I can't imagine trying to manage more than 3 sites at once though, stress!

 

[MarieElise]

Depends who replies, I've seen some pretty cynical advice being given at times

Let’s qualify that part by saying from your experience level in life, and spot on the other side of the camera they are cynical, or in your opinion, from your perspective they are cynical. Whether they truly are, is a different thing.

I’ve seen realistic (yet undesirable or grittily true) responses here be called cynical by clearly less experienced individuals. Bless their innocence and idealism (and hearts) but the accuracy of the label is questionable.

Some of the things that go on in this world (of sex work) are ugly, and dark. It sucks, I know. But rose tinted glasses and/or sugar coating denial, is harmful in the long run.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

At the same time don't believe you're a core portion of a models income that you can feel so free to 'suggest' anything. If you leave and they start messaging you why you left or ask you what was an issue THEN you can offer suggestions. You only see what the model allows you to see. Models might have of income sources and being on your site isn't so important at all.

There are times where I have been the only person in her room that interacts and tips for long periods during a stream. I was recently away on holiday for a couple of weeks and since returning, theres almost no visitors anymore.

One regular guy that tipped quite a lot almost every day had his account hacked, thousands stolen in tokens so left the site for good, such bad luck!

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I’ve seen realistic (yet undesirable or grittily true) responses here be calledcynical by less experienced individuals. Bless their innocence and idealism, but the accuracy of the label is questionable.

That's fair and I understand your point, I have been around on the sites long enough to see and experience a lot of the grittiness, I'm no spring chicken myself!

 

[MarieElise]

I agree, I've seen very few models that only stream on one platform, if they do they already have a dedicated fan base and I suppose have no need to divide their time.

True point. I’ve been doing this 9 years and have a super loyal circle of close Regs. But with the economy even I’ve had to start split camming.

The goal is always (for me) to turn the camera on all other sites off whenever paid action on one of them begins. But noone’s perfect, errors happen. However, in this case sounds more planned.

I think in this economy, for anyone who is not a cam model, to judge cam models for split camming, is extremely narrow minded and self centered ( to a level of being unfair). But hey, those guys can keep on doing themselves anyways. They surely will lol. Again, very narrow perspective. However your case is different because it was purposefully advertised on another site.

 

[SMuser69]

Quite narrow minded and prejudiced. Most models split stream and most are diligent when it comes to turning off other streams when they go private in one. In the case we are discussing, it sounds like the model made a decision in desperation. I'd say that unless you've sat in a room on your own all day looking at a screen while people beg you for free shit then you should probably be a bit more understanding.

Some models, especially those in Latin America don't have the economic security you do so trying to make a few extra dollars is hardly the crime of the century.

I'm not a white knight, I don't view camsite or the models on them as charity cases that I need to economically uplift with my spending. This is entertainment and fun and sometimes you meet models that you use long term and some you don't. Calling me narrow minded for not liking something make you look small not me. Me not staying with a model that's doing something I don't respond to doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't exist or make the model a person a bad person for indulging in it, it just means it's not for ME.

You'd have less site drama if you thought of it my way and wasn't taking a worldview that you're 'saving' models with your tips and just enjoy yourself like the site is intended for. Models rooms are businesses, if they succeed or fail is completely on the model's choices not mine.

 

[misterical]

I'm not a white knight, I don't view camsite or the models on them as charity cases that I need to economically uplift with my spending. This is entertainment and fun and sometimes you meet models that you use long term and some you don't. Calling me narrow minded for not liking something make you look small not me. Me not staying with a model that's doing something I don't respond to doesn't automatically mean it shouldn't exist or make the model a person a bad person for indulging in it, it just means it's not for ME.

You'd have less site drama if you thought of it my way and wasn't taking a worldview that you're 'saving' models with your tips and just enjoy yourself like the site is intended for. Models rooms are businesses, if they succeed or fail is completely on the model's choices not mine.

First of all, using the word "use" when referring to models or just women in general is a pretty bad look dude.

Secondly, when did I say anything about being a white knight or saving anyone? I'm just talking about being an all round decent human being. A principle that could apply equally to someone working in your local shop as well as a cam model.

 

[misterical]

if they succeed or fail is completely on the model's choices not mine.

A very simplistic view. A lot of models fail because their rooms are full of guys who would rather watch for free than pay for a service. If we were talking about a store where everyone walked off the street and helped themselves to the produce then you wouldn't be saying that. Or illegal music downloads. Why is it any different?

 

[Vixxen81]

Let’s qualify that part by saying from your experience level in life, and spot on the other side of the camera they are cynical, or in your opinion, from your perspective they are cynical. Whether they truly are, is a different thing.

I’ve seen realistic (yet undesirable or grittily true) responses here be called cynical by clearly less experienced individuals. Bless their innocence and idealism (and hearts) but the accuracy of the label is questionable.

Some of the things that go on in this world (of sex work) are ugly, and dark. It sucks, I know. But rose tinted glasses and/or sugar coating denial, is harmful in the long run.

Yeah, thanks for this. To confuse cynicism with experience is pretty common when they've never been where we have. And I'll just leave it at that.

 

[SMuser69]

A very simplistic view. A lot of models fail because their rooms are full of guys who would rather watch for free than pay for a service. If we were talking about a store where everyone walked off the street and helped themselves to the produce then you wouldn't be saying that. Or illegal music downloads. Why is it any different?

It's not a simple view, it's that camsites are simple in purpose. You and the model agree to something and it happens. What's the complexity?

Everyone's NOT in agreement when you steal whether it's music or items from a store. Freeloaders aren't STEALING anything but they aren't help either that's why models have way to ignore them or they can use sites that make it harder to be a freeloader like SM.

 

[Nigerian Prince]

The difference here as I have said was that she was inviting others in that would interact, tip for activities and chat on a DIFFERENT site, which isn't a private...it's a group or ticket show.

I don't think your initial post made this clear, it seemed more like they were just allowed to watch, and not interact with the model

 

[yummybrownfox]

First of all, using the word "use" when referring to models or just women in general is a pretty bad look dude.

Secondly, when did I say anything about being a white knight or saving anyone? I'm just talking about being an all round decent human being. A principle that could apply equally to someone working in your local shop as well as a cam model.

You are really on here lecturing SMuser69 about what's a "bad look?" Interesting.....

Anyway, it feels like you're just nitpicking at everything he says, trying to make him out to be some jerk...while you are the "nice guy" spokesperson for cam models. He doesn't need advice on how to be a decent human being. He already is.

Maybe tone it down a bit with the virtue signaling, dude.

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Quite narrow minded and prejudiced. Most models split stream and most are diligent when it comes to turning off other streams when they go private in one. In the case we are discussing, it sounds like the model made a decision in desperation. I'd say that unless you've sat in a room on your own all day looking at a screen while people beg you for free shit then you should probably be a bit more understanding.

Some models, especially those in Latin America don't have the economic security you do so trying to make a few extra dollars is hardly the crime of the century.

It's not really that complicated. Models offer a service and customers can choose whether it is for them or not. No one has an obligation to pay for something they don't like. If someone wants to pay for a model's undivided attention there is nothing wrong with that, it's just up to the model to decide how much that is worth.

 

[dinnerforbreakfast]

I don't think your initial post made this clear, it seemed more like they were just allowed to watch, and not interact with the model

Ah perhaps, I guess I assumed people would glean that when I said 'ticket show' forgetting there are so many sites and one thing can mean another depending on the platform.

 

[KingMarti]

Ah perhaps, I guess I assumed people would glean that when I said 'ticket show' forgetting there are so many sites and one thing can mean another depending on the platform.

Just because there was a ticket show it dosnt necessarily mean that the model would be taking requests from chat, they would be able to tip during and see the show, but it dosnt mean that she would be acknowledging the chat until the pvt is over, of course it also dosnt mean the opposite either. Since you stopped the show (which ofc you should be free to do) you cant say with certainty which way it would have gone unless she has specifically told you.

 

[Marceline]

A very simplistic view. A lot of models fail because their rooms are full of guys who would rather watch for free than pay for a service. If we were talking about a store where everyone walked off the street and helped themselves to the produce then you wouldn't be saying that. Or illegal music downloads. Why is it any different?

No, it really is that simple. Models fail or succeed based on their own decisions. If a model is constantly having a room full of guys who aren't paying, then obviously it's something that she is or isn't doing to have them there, not paying.

I do believe that luck is a factor when it comes to major success in camming, but you can have all the luck in the world, have members with hundreds of thousands of tokens enter your room, and if you're not able to entice them to tip, they won't. And that's on the model, not the member. Because in the end, members don't owe any models anything and are able to spend their money however and wherever they please. It's your job as a model to get them to spend that money on you and be happy to do it.

Your analogies aren't comparable to the situation. No one is stealing anything when they go to a model's public show. If you're doing public shows, then you're doing so with the knowledge that you may not get tipped from it, and that's just the way camming goes on public/token sites.

And one little anecdote. I've had my content pirated A LOT over the multiple years I've been in this industry. Something which I think is a lot worse than just having people sit in your room not tipping, since that's actual theft. But anyway, over the years, I've had random dudes tip me, buy a few videos and then message me about how they originally found my content "elsewhere". Even saw a comment on Reddit where someone said they liked one of my pirated videos so much they went and bought it (it was a $40 video). It's super fucking annoying to be reminded that I have pirated shit out there despite sending out DMCAs and all, but, it does go to show that just because someone starts out not wanting to spend money or being a "freeloader" (or in this case someone who is legitimately stealing or enabling the theft of my content) if they find the right model they will spend money.

 

[Ozzie_]

Well that certainly differs from the "Spy" mode but sounds similar to the Streamate approach (and I think Stripchat too).

Not Stripchat.

A private is private, just you and the model although the model may allow spying. Exclusive Private is no spying.

SC's TOS is very clear: once a model accepts a private or exclusive show on SC, they MUST end any and all public streams on all other platforms. Either initiating a non-interactive spy mode or if that is not possible, closing the stream entirely.

This has been stated many times by many people here on ACF including the SC rep Charlie.

The only valid issue I see the OP having is that the stream on the other platform was still interactive, to me *that* is the breach of faith. But that depends on what a "private" show actually is on the platform he was using, I do not think he still has told us this important fact.

 

[mika_kedi]

Not Stripchat.

A private is private, just you and the model although the model may allow spying. Exclusive Private is no spying.

SC's TOS is very clear: once a model accepts a private or exclusive show on SC, they MUST end any and all public streams on all other platforms. Either initiating a non-interactive spy mode or if that is not possible, closing the stream entirely.

This has been stated many times by many people here on ACF including the SC rep Charlie.

The only valid issue I see the OP having is that the stream on the other platform was still interactive, to me *that* is the breach of faith. But that depends on what a "private" show actually is on the platform he was using, I do not think he still has told us this important fact.

Since you're talking about stripchat's TOS and about shows being "interactive" - I had spies on stripchat tip during my private with someone else on stripchat and activate my vibe toy. That's pretty interactive to me and it is build into stripchat's functionality.

 

[Ozzie_]

You are really on here lecturing SMuser69 about what's a "bad look?" Interesting.....

I gotta side with @misterical here.

This is entertainment and fun and sometimes you meet models that you use long term and some you don't.

I get that SMuser69 is a long-term Amberlander, but where I am from, you do NOT use people, you use objects. Saying what they said is certainly a bad look, IMO objectifying models.

 

[Vixxen81]

Kind of wish I knew who the model is so I can send her a tip note telling her how to password her room. If she was indeed on CB and SC at the same time...

 

[Ozzie_]

Since you're talking about stripchat's TOS and about shows being "interactive" - I had spies on stripchat tip during my private with someone else on stripchat and activate my vibe toy. That's pretty interactive to me and it is build into stripchat's functionality.

This is interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[Ozzie_]

Kind of wish I knew who the model is so I can send her a tip note telling her how to password her room. If she was indeed on CB and SC at the same time...

The thing is that I do not think the OP has told us which 2 sites, so a lot of the comments here (my own included) are kind of just stabbing in the dark.

 

[Vixxen81]

The thing is that I do not think the OP has told us which 2 sites, so a lot of the comments here (my own included) are kind of just stabbing in the dark.

Yep. I'm still reeling on the idea that she was token poor to begin with and he wanted exclusitivy even though she could have made money doing both but ya know, what the fuck do I know? Only been doing this for 10 years.

 

[Ozzie_]

Yep. I'm still reeling on the idea that she was token poor to begin with and he wanted exclusitivy even though she could have made money doing both but ya know, what the fuck do I know? Only been doing this for 10 years.

I understand her need and situation. I do not feel comfortable talking too specifically as I know that "private" means different things on different sites, and my only experience is SC. If what was described happened on SC she has broken terms of service.

If it was me, I'd have just tipped the tokens in the public show.

 

[Vixxen81]

I understand her need and situation. I do not feel comfortable talking too specifically as I know that "private" means different things on different sites, and my only experience is SC. If what was described happened on SC she has broken terms of service.

If it was me, I'd have just tipped the tokens in the public show.

That's where I'm stuck. He said he knows her on both sites so why not offer to tip where she had the ticket show or did she go into the ticket show thinking she was complying or...I really don't like only having his side of this situation.

Kind of reminds me of a person I knew who said she fell asleep while driving and ran into a ditch and almost froze to death but failed to disclose to the entire room that she was drink driving when it happened. Like that's a HUGE detail, sis.

Edit to add: so it can't be SC or SM because how would he know both sites? You can't give that info out, right? Not even a Twitter...now I'm even more confused.

 

[yummybrownfox]

I gotta side with @misterical here.



I get that SMuser69 is a long-term Amberlander, but where I am from, you do NOT use people, you use objects. Saying what they said is certainly a bad look, IMO objectifying models.

"This is entertainment and fun and sometimes you meet models that you use long term and some you don't."

^I hadn't even noticed that he said "use" in his post earlier. I do understand how the wording of that statement sounds bad, but I believe that what he was trying to say is that sometimes you meet models that you enjoy long term. And misterical was already on his case even before that comment was even made.....

Yeah, that's cool and all about SMuser69 being a long-term member of the forum, as you pointed out. But that had nothing to do with why I said what I said.