Update on possible scam

[Riddler]

For those of you who remember my summer post, linked below.

I still don’t have the clip or a refund. I hadn’t heard from hear since mid-August. I paid in April.
So finally I unloaded on her in an email last week.
That actually prompted a responded in which she promises it will get done, she is just battling terrible health problems.

She points out that she hasn’t posted any news clips, been on OF or any stream site since before our agreement because she’s been sick. (I looked at her sites. That’s all true.)

I also found another guy on a fetish message board complaining that she used to get customs done in days and now he’s waiting 4 months for her to get his done. And he’s hearing the same things I am about her health, so I do believe she’s telling the truth.


She has agreed to refund the money, but asked me repeatedly to give her more time.

I would like the clip, but this has dragged on for six months with no end in sight. She still can’t give me an ETA for the clip. If she told me “just be patient, I’ll have it December.” I can deal. But the answer is always, “I don’t know. It depends on my health, which isn’t good right now.”

What does board think? Should I demand the refund or give her the time to get healthy?

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/did-i-get-scammed-and-what-do-i-do-about-it.39306/

 

[Helen Crimson]

This is a tricky one. If she’s having these serious health issues, she may not even have the money right now to refund you. It sounds like she gave you a timeframe of December, so I would see it out until then, but if she doesn’t deliver at that point I’d ask for a refund. I’ve been on her side of the coin where health issues hold me back from delivering, so I totally get where she’s coming from, but at the same time if I didn’t think I could deliver I’d be giving a refund.

 

[admjgg]

This is a tricky one. If she’s having these serious health issues, she may not even have the money right now to refund you. It sounds like she gave you a timeframe of December, so I would see it out until then, but if she doesn’t deliver at that point I’d ask for a refund. I’ve been on her side of the coin where health issues hold me back from delivering, so I totally get where she’s coming from, but at the same time if I didn’t think I could deliver I’d be giving a refund.

He said "if she told me she would have it done in December..." not that she would have it done by December.

I would still wait it out. You don't know what kind of health issues she's dealing with and she might have a mountain of medical bills waiting for her.

 

[throwawayacc71]

$800? her health problems aren't your problem. you didn't agree to loan her money, you paid for something and she didn't provide it. she has had more than a reasonable amount of time. Get a refund now.

 

[rockin_rod]

Yes it's definitely a tricky one. $800 is a lot of money to be down by for such a long time, with no clear revised date.
If she really can't give you a firm future date, then I'd think she would feel obliged to offer a refund, without you having to ask for it.

But something that stands out in your post above is that she has not been working, due to sickness, since before you both agreed to the custom.
And there is at least one other person (on the other forum) who has experienced this. So that would be of concern to me.
How you decide to move forward probably depends on how much trust you feel?

 

[MarieElise]

For those of you who remember my summer post, linked below.

I still don’t have the clip or a refund. I hadn’t heard from hear since mid-August. I paid in April.
So finally I unloaded on her in an email last week.
That actually prompted a responded in which she promises it will get done, she is just battling terrible health problems.

She points out that she hasn’t posted any news clips, been on OF or any stream site since before our agreement because she’s been sick. (I looked at her sites. That’s all true.)

I also found another guy on a fetish message board complaining that she used to get customs done in days and now he’s waiting 4 months for her to get his done. And he’s hearing the same things I am about her health, so I do believe she’s telling the truth.


She has agreed to refund the money, but asked me repeatedly to give her more time.

I would like the clip, but this has dragged on for six months with no end in sight. She still can’t give me an ETA for the clip. If she told me “just be patient, I’ll have it December.” I can deal. But the answer is always, “I don’t know. It depends on my health, which isn’t good right now.”

What does board think? Should I demand the refund or give her the time to get healthy?

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/did-i-get-scammed-and-what-do-i-do-about-it.39306/

Yeah, I really don't know enough about your financial situation to answer this. If $800 is nothing to you, and waiting longer isn't detrimental to your own life and well-being, then I would say wait it out. If you are struggling then I would say demand a refund now. It's a sucky situation, and I feel for both you and the model on this one. But it has been an awfully long time.

 

[Jbr]

TLDR; but...
Wait.
I know I am wading into something thats not my business here but I have an issue with this.

How come when we (customers) ask, expect, beg or even prostrate ourselves for anything more than a simple business transaction we are vilified but this model can take what amounts to a weeks wages (or more) for many people and leave her customer hanging for months?

This makes no sense.
No one has a right to take your money and not provide the goods, ever. Would you accept this from any other business? Is this business? or something else? Does the OP owe the model something? I would say if he is a regular then she owes him, not the other way around...
How is this ok? There is nothing "tricky" about this, she is ripping you off..
you paid your money, her health concerns are not your problem. She should refund you right away, not leave you hanging for weeks or months.There is a stench of double standards here.

I totally get where she’s coming from, but at the same time if I didn’t think I could deliver I’d be giving a refund.

these are the words of a professional person.
If this is business, then it is business, a strange business I admit but the rules should be the same, non?

If you go to the gorcery store, or buy something on eBay, would you pay your money and just sit and wait because the vendor isn't well?

Refund REfund REFUND! wtf?

 

[throwawayacc71]

TLDR; but...
Wait.
I know I am wading into something thats not my business here but I have an issue with this.

How come when we (customers) ask, expect, beg or even prostrate ourselves for anything more than a simple business transaction we are vilified but this model can take what amounts to a weeks wages (or more) for many people and leave her customer hanging for months?

This makes no sense.
No one has a right to take your money and not provide the goods, ever. Would you accept this from any other business? Is this business? or something else? Does the OP owe the model something? I would say if he is a regular then she owes him, not the other way around...
How is this ok? There is nothing "tricky" about this, she is ripping you off..
you paid your money, her health concerns are not your problem. She should refund you right away, not leave you hanging for weeks or months.There is a stench of double standards here.


these are the words of a professional person.
If this is business, then it is business, a strange business I admit but the rules should be the same, non?

If you go to the gorcery store, or buy something on eBay, would you pay your money and just sit and wait because the vendor isn't well?

Refund REfund REFUND! wtf?

I wasn't going to go into it, but from what i've seen i would agree with you.

 

[admjgg]

The obvious, simple solution here is to get your refund and tell her to message you when she's feeling better. Then you can decide if you still want the clip or not at that time. Don't know why that slipped my mind earlier.

 

[rockin_rod]

I hesitated to reply further, because (as noted) it's not really anyone's business than the OP and the model, but then again, they did ask for thoughts/comments.
However, while it is technically strictly business, it does involve people. And people sometimes have issues, that may need to be factored in.
The OP has already showed compassion and understanding by allowing extra time (more than reasonable IMHO) for the service to be provided.
But I do think it is to their credit that they continue to do so, and this recognises the human factor involved.
Could she be scamming him? Maybe. Who knows, except her.
But I know plenty of models who give a great deal of themselves, and their time, for free - be it in off-site messaging, sending videos/pictures, preparing for shows, and much more.
So it's not always so clear-cut.

 

[MarieElise]

I hesitated to reply further, because (as noted) it's not really anyone's business than the OP and the model, but then again, they did ask for thoughts/comments.
However, while it is technically strictly business, it does involve people. And people sometimes have issues, that may need to be factored in.
The OP has already showed compassion and understanding by allowing extra time (more than reasonable IMHO) for the service to be provided.
But I do think it is to their credit that they continue to do so, and this recognises the human factor involved.
Could she be scamming him? Maybe. Who knows, except her.
But I know plenty of models who give a great deal of themselves, and their time, for free - be it in off-site messaging, sending videos/pictures, preparing for shows, and much more.
So it's not always so clear-cut.

Even though I do fall more strongly on the side of demand a refund, and I like to think if I were her he would have got one month's ago w no further commitment and a sincere apology. I would like to also note though, that you really can't conflate sex work (buying time with another human being) with buying a cable on Amazon! It's not the same thing.

 

[Ozzie_]

I was a plumber in a previous life.

If I contract to do a job (provide a service), take a payment up front (as can happen on larger projects) and then get sick so that I can no longer meet the delivery schedule, I would be expected to refund the deposit. Even more so if it was a full up-front payment.

 

[MarieElise]

I was a plumber in a previous life.

Well let's hope your contracts didn't involve showing your genitals to strangers. This is a little bit more personal, but I do agree about the refund for a service.

However, in a long-standing relationship between seller and buyer, it's a bit different too vs a one-off purchase.
I'm not sure if OP is in this for the long game i.e. does this specific model perhaps do something or has something which is of high value to him, which he has an issue finding anywhere else? In that case, he may be hesitant to demand, even though he is justified to IMO. Because he's thinking of the future.

Also, I think a lot in business depends on the level of personal connection the buyer has. With some service providers, I have such a personal connection, and I see them as so valuable, that I will literally put up with nearly anything. Whereas others not so much. So as a buyer and user of services I do see his dilemma. Some people are just that good, and are irreplaceable, or at least extremely difficult and time-consuming to replace. Sometimes it's easier and less energy-consuming to put up with a little (or a lot) of their shit, if the good and potential for future pleasure outweigh it. Maybe she has him by the gonads, in that way.

 

[NotYou]

How about a partial (half?) refund, so then it shows you still want the video, and still have some trust in her?
Upon completion, you pay that half again for her or if by a specific deadline she still has yet to deliver, she gives back the rest of the money.

This way she is not having to give the full refund and be out of pocket so much money at once. i know $400 is still a lot to pay back, but it has been 6 months.

 

[yummybrownfox]

For those of you who remember my summer post, linked below.

I still don’t have the clip or a refund. I hadn’t heard from hear since mid-August. I paid in April.
So finally I unloaded on her in an email last week.
That actually prompted a responded in which she promises it will get done, she is just battling terrible health problems.

She points out that she hasn’t posted any news clips, been on OF or any stream site since before our agreement because she’s been sick. (I looked at her sites. That’s all true.)

I also found another guy on a fetish message board complaining that she used to get customs done in days and now he’s waiting 4 months for her to get his done. And he’s hearing the same things I am about her health, so I do believe she’s telling the truth.


She has agreed to refund the money, but asked me repeatedly to give her more time.

I would like the clip, but this has dragged on for six months with no end in sight. She still can’t give me an ETA for the clip. If she told me “just be patient, I’ll have it December.” I can deal. But the answer is always, “I don’t know. It depends on my health, which isn’t good right now.”

What does board think? Should I demand the refund or give her the time to get healthy?

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/did-i-get-scammed-and-what-do-i-do-about-it.39306/

I think you should just accept the refund, while also wishing her the best regarding her health issues. It does not make you a bad guy at all to want your money back. You've been patient long enough, imo. I, personally, would not have waited as long as you have, and I would've kindly asked for a refund a long time ago. If I was the model in this situation, I would've just given you the refund. April was six months ago. Imo, you've had the patience of a saint.

 

[Ozzie_]

Well let's hope your contracts didn't involve showing your genitals to strangers. This is a little bit more personal, but I do agree about the refund for a service.

However, in a long-standing relationship between seller and buyer, it's a bit different too vs a one-off purchase.
I'm not sure if OP is in this for the long game i.e. does this specific model perhaps do something or has something which is of high value to him, which he has an issue finding anywhere else? In that case, he may be hesitant to demand, even though he is justified to IMO. Because he's thinking of the future.

Also, I think a lot in business depends on the level of personal connection the buyer has. With some service providers, I have such a personal connection, and I see them as so valuable, that I will literally put up with nearly anything. Whereas others not so much. So as a buyer and user of services I do see his dilemma. Some people are just that good, and are irreplaceable, or at least extremely difficult and time-consuming to replace. Sometimes it's easier and less energy-consuming to put up with a little (or a lot) of their shit, if the good and potential for future pleasure outweigh it. Maybe she has him by the gonads, in that way.

Oh yes all very valid points. The relationship between client and service provider (not matter what the service is) can be a complex one. It si of course down to the OP what they do.

And I myself would certainly react differently depending on the person I was dealing with, like you, some people get a lot of slack cut for them, others maybe not so much.

 

[Brit]

TLDR; but...
Wait.
I know I am wading into something thats not my business here but I have an issue with this.

How come when we (customers) ask, expect, beg or even prostrate ourselves for anything more than a simple business transaction we are vilified but this model can take what amounts to a weeks wages (or more) for many people and leave her customer hanging for months?

This makes no sense.
No one has a right to take your money and not provide the goods, ever. Would you accept this from any other business? Is this business? or something else? Does the OP owe the model something? I would say if he is a regular then she owes him, not the other way around...
How is this ok? There is nothing "tricky" about this, she is ripping you off..
you paid your money, her health concerns are not your problem. She should refund you right away, not leave you hanging for weeks or months.There is a stench of double standards here.


these are the words of a professional person.
If this is business, then it is business, a strange business I admit but the rules should be the same, non?

If you go to the gorcery store, or buy something on eBay, would you pay your money and just sit and wait because the vendor isn't well?

Refund REfund REFUND! wtf?

The custom in question is over an hour long and features a niche fetish so yes, her health problems are kinda OP's problem since the fetish could be very taxing on her body, especially considering the length of the vid. Ordering a custom vid is not the same thing as buying groceries or ordering an already made product online. A custom means that it is something that is being made brand new just for you. I would kind of liken it to a shop on Etsy that will create customized jewelry or something like that or compare it to a movie being made. If comparing to Etsy, perhaps materials aren't available for the creator to make your item. In the case of this custom, her body (materials) aren't available right now. If comparing to a movie being made, well, movies get their release date pushed back all the time. People get sick on set, things go wrong on set, all sorts of things happen that can cause a delay just as something has happened to her that has caused a delay in this custom. I hope you're able to see how a custom is different than a premade product.

That being said, @Riddler based upon your previous posts, I'm pretty sure you're not going to get a refund. In the other thread, you said that she said she was going to send you a refund along with other clips and she didn't so what makes you think that this time will be any different? Definitely demand a refund if you're over it all and don't have any interest in her work anymore. But if you are still interested and willing to stick it out longer, then maybe you can request some sort of definite timeline, such as a year from when you first requested it. I have read stories from other models who had some health issues and weren't able to complete customs for a year+. It's rare, but does happen. They were, however, always communicating with the people who ordered them and she doesn't seem to be doing a very good job doing this with you soooo idk.

Is it possible she is trying to exit the industry? She claims to have a day job so perhaps that is taking up the time and energy she does have left over from being ill. If she's not trying to exit the industry and isn't trying to scam people, then this situation must really suck for her too.

 

[Riddler]

I have no guarantee I’ll get a refund, but o want to keep pushing for one. This has dragged on with April with no end in sight.

I’ve offered to accept my refund in installments and I’ve asked if she was healthy enough to do a clip that would be her just modeling and posing. Not what I paid her for, but I thought it would be easier for her to complete.

I’ve even thrown out the idea of setting up a timeline, giving her two or months or a I get a refund.


But she never addresses any idea. It’s just “I don’t have your money because I spent it and I’m not healthy to do your clip. I promise I will be soon.”

She came highly recommended on some Fetish sites, but I really just want nothing to do with her any more.

I don’t know how much more slack I can cut her here. I really don’t.

 

[Riddler]

But I know plenty of models who give a great deal of themselves, and their time, for free - be it in off-site messaging, sending videos/pictures, preparing for shows, and much more.
So it's not always so clear-cut.

I totally agree with this, but I’ve never asked her for anything beyond doing the clip I paid her to do. And respond to my requests for an ETA, which I only send once a month as to not be annoying.

 

[Riddler]

Well let's hope your contracts didn't involve showing your genitals to strangers. This is a little bit more personal, but I do agree about the refund for a service.

However, in a long-standing relationship between seller and buyer, it's a bit different too vs a one-off purchase.
I'm not sure if OP is in this for the long game i.e. does this specific model perhaps do something or has something which is of high value to him, which he has an issue finding anywhere else? In that case, he may be hesitant to demand, even though he is justified to IMO. Because he's thinking of the future.

Sometimes it's easier and less energy-consuming to put up with a little (or a lot) of their shit, if the good and potential for future pleasure outweigh it. Maybe she has him by the gonads, in that way.

She specializes in a niche fetish and is highly, highly recommended by those who follow this space. So, yes, she does excel at this compared to some others who do this niche.

I’ve downloaded the clips she’s done for others and they are fantastic. It’s why I’ve been so patient.

Maybe I’m naive, but I believe I reached out at the wrong time.

 

[rockin_rod]

I totally agree with this, but I’ve never asked her for anything beyond doing the clip I paid her to do. And respond to my requests for an ETA, which I only send once a month as to not be annoying.

Oh sure, I didn't mean to imply that these are things anyone - including you - requested (although plenty do), but that a lot of models will actually give their time off-site (which equals money) and more without being asked, especially to a regular.

 

[admjgg]

I have no guarantee I’ll get a refund, but o want to keep pushing for one. This has dragged on with April with no end in sight.

I’ve offered to accept my refund in installments and I’ve asked if she was healthy enough to do a clip that would be her just modeling and posing. Not what I paid her for, but I thought it would be easier for her to complete.

I’ve even thrown out the idea of setting up a timeline, giving her two or months or a I get a refund.


But she never addresses any idea. It’s just “I don’t have your money because I spent it and I’m not healthy to do your clip. I promise I will be soon.”

She came highly recommended on some Fetish sites, but I really just want nothing to do with her any more.

I don’t know how much more slack I can cut her here. I really don’t.

Oh geez that sucks. The more I hear about your situation the more I feel she accepted the custom for the money out of desperation/lack of income, and then her health declined further and she could no longer deliver the content she promised.

The only remotely positive spin I can put on it is she came recommended by members and that you've seen content that you enjoyed from her already. I doubt she's trying to scam you, she likely just legitimately can't film your custom, and used the money to cover bills from lost income from her illness.

This is just a shitty situation all around. Hopefully she gets better and delivers your custom, or you work out a way to get your money back.

 

[Sashayman]

I hesitated to reply further, because (as noted) it's not really anyone's business than the OP and the model, but then again, they did ask for thoughts/comments.
However, while it is technically strictly business, it does involve people. And people sometimes have issues, that may need to be factored in.
The OP has already showed compassion and understanding by allowing extra time (more than reasonable IMHO) for the service to be provided.
But I do think it is to their credit that they continue to do so, and this recognises the human factor involved.
Could she be scamming him? Maybe. Who knows, except her.
But I know plenty of models who give a great deal of themselves, and their time, for free - be it in off-site messaging, sending videos/pictures, preparing for shows, and much more.
So it's not always so clear-cut.

Many times one can discern much about an individual‘s business acumen by assessing their response to a prickly customer dispute. The context of this imbroglio would present itself in an altogether different light if the model-in-poor-health elected to build some customer (and reputational) goodwill by offering a product or enhanced service without further charge in addition to the custom that is now promised in December. In the absence of goodwill-building, customer tolerance arising from the failure to deliver within a reasonable time erodes more quickly.

 

[rockin_rod]

Many times one can discern much about an individual‘s business acumen by assessing their response to a prickly customer dispute. The context of this imbroglio would present itself in an altogether different light if the model-in-poor-health elected to build some customer (and reputational) goodwill by offering a product or enhanced service without further charge in addition to the custom that is now promised in December. In the absence of goodwill-building, customer tolerance arising from the failure to deliver within a reasonable time erodes more quickly.

I'm not really sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with the comment you quoted, or adding to it. But having good business acumen and demonstrating good customer service are not the same thing.
Personally, I think the model should have repaid the money long ago, when she realised she couldn't deliver on the deal. And I would not have been as patient as the OP, and would have escalated it sooner (BTW, the clip hasn't been promised in December, there is still no agreed new date based on the above comments).
But a lot depends on the method that was used to make payment, as to whether or not it is recoverable - and the OP has already been told it cannot be repaid at this time because she does not have it to return.

 

[admjgg]

But a lot depends on the method that was used to make payment, as to whether or not it is recoverable - and the OP has already been told it cannot be repaid at this time because she does not have it to return.

That's where I kinda get lost in all of this tbh. If it was done through all the legal channels through the website the money would have been refunded months ago. But because OP made his payment off site he may never get his money back. I'm guessing that it's the only reason she contacted him again in the first place. It has to be against TOS, right?

 

[rockin_rod]

That's where I kinda get lost in all of this tbh. If it was done through all the legal channels through the website the money would have been refunded months ago. But because OP made his payment off site he may never get his money back. I'm guessing that it's the only reason she contacted him again in the first place. It has to be against TOS, right?

Well, I thought from the first thread about this matter that it was done through clips4sale....... but re-reading it, seems payment went through a different method.
So, unsure what options would be available now. Even if a cc was used for payment, there may be a time limit for chargeback for non-provision of service.

 

[Riddler]

Well, I thought from the first thread about this matter that it was done through clips4sale....... but re-reading it, seems payment went through a different method.
So, unsure what options would be available now. Even if a cc was used for payment, there may be a time limit for chargeback for non-provision of service.

I did pay through CashApp. My choices were CashApp or PayPal.
I called CashApp in June and they were no help and my credit card company told me they can’t help me unless CashApp takes action. So this comes down to her either giving me my clip or a refund.
It’s not recoverable at the point.
Also this week we passed the six month mark with no ETA in sight.
Last I heard I’m behind a few other custom clips but I can’t get even a vague answer on when anything might be filmed. I ask and the question is always left unanswered.

 

[Riddler]

Just curious how many people on her believe she’s actually sick.