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Overspending members and camgirl ethics.

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Do Camgirls have an moral duty to discourage members from ruinous overspending on them?

  • No. The members are adults.

    Votes: 80 63.5%
  • No. But they should tell them it is ok cut back on tipping you.

    Votes: 36 28.6%
  • Yes. They should tell them please stop giving me large tips, I'll feel bad.

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Yes. They should ban or threaten to ban them if they don't stop and encourage them to get help.

    Votes: 9 7.1%

  • Total voters
    126
  • Poll closed .
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You may have point about women. I'll say for me personally, the guy running the poker game who banned "Vegas", the compulsive gambler I applauded. I bitched and stopped patronizing the guys running games that continued to let him play. Cause I believed they had a moral responsibility to stop enabling his addiction. He fled the island owing close to 100K to lots of people who couldn't afford the losses.

Likewise, I think lots of execs at Purdue and other pharmaceuticals companies who sold obscene amounts of opioids into small towns in middle America, should be locked up right beside cartel leaders. At some point, once you become aware of the indirect consequences of your actions, I think you have a responsibility to stop. Now where you draw the line is worthy of debate.
I think businesses like bars and casinos, generally, only get rid of people when they begin to affect or endanger others which will also hurt business. The angry drunk and the desperate gambler really get banned for acting a fool and ruining the party. Doubtful that that ethics comes into it too much.

I agree fully with the pharmaceutical companies. That probably influences my cynicism over "camgirl addiction" or "porn addiction" or "money addiction". If the key to ending someone's addiction is just them putting their credit card down and joining a meeting or a therapist, they are very fortunate. How much pity do they need on top of the solution being to spend less? An opiate addiction, conversely, is expensive to end. On top of wanting to change, that addict has to have the financial means to do so. You'd think help would cost less than pills or heroin, but in our country, it definitely doesn't. Two weeks in a crappy, county rehab is easily over 20k. A suboxone maintenance plan without insurance can be over $50/day, and methadone clinics are close to $20/day. When there are real people suffering life altering addictions and fighting to make it work, babying some dweeb who can't seem to block himself from a website seems silly.
 
CLEARLY sephora should ban me. I mean... They can see I've spent like 3k in the last year on makeup. I tell them everytime I'm in the store I spend too much there. I tell them I have a problem as they assist me and I fill my basket.

Clearly they should look at my account and be like "Miss your beauty Insider account shows you have TWELVE high end shadow palettes and that's just too much already so put down the too faced matte peach palette and leave the store."

Obviously I can't be held responsible for my own stupid behavior.


Side note I just left without that palette because I'm a grown ass bitch that knows shouldn't buy it after buying a gimbal and paying for a lash fill today and I'm grumpy about it.
 
The people at Hot Topic and Barnes and Noble all recognize me and I never spend less than $100 when I go in there - which is a lot.

I'm also fully aware I have a shopping addiction (it's actually tied to my BPD and I'm grateful that's the only non-caffeine addiction I have cus it could be a lot worse).

But I don't blame the HT and B&N employees for not stopping me from buying ten more books I probably won't be trading any time soon cus we both know I'm a grown adult making choices.
 
Bitch you know you're buying that peach palette. Let's be real.

Hold up, gotta get more dumbass smokes and energy drinks.

Probably at the same time I go back and buy the clarisonic kit lol.

HOW DARE THEY SELL ME SOMETHING SO EXPENSIVE.
 
Sure in an ideal world people are responsible for their own actions, but we don't live in that world. As a society, we support a lot of people who make foolish choices. In the 21st century, we don't expect everybody who has an addiction be it tobacco, alcohol, gambling, shopping, drugs, to solve their addiction all by their own. We provide resources to help them. In many cases, like the bar owner cutting off the alcoholic or the casino manager cutting off the compulsive gambler we expect these people to do this despite it being against their economic self-interest. In fact, we take a very dim view of the drug dealer who continues to sell drugs to an addict, the bookie who continue to extend credit, or the payday lender who rolls over payday loans. It's called compassion.

This is cracking me up, since when do corporations have compassion? the only reason they provide these resources is for optics, not because they actually give a shit. That bartender is cutting you off because you're starting shit in the bar or laying your head down, which looks trashy. It deters more spending overall from other customers. You just gave me a great idea- if i ever have a member with a spending problem alert me it is MY responsibility to cut them off, I'll raise their show price to deter them from taking me to show. Or, it won't. Either way, problem not solved until they adult up and stop expecting other people to babysit them. You can't help those that refuse to help themselves. Period.
 
It is not punishable by law to continue selling someone an intimate or sexual service which has begun to do them financial or emotional harm. The only substance/service that I know of which does have that law is alcohol. Anyone asserting 'shoulds' or 'shouldn'ts' is obviously speaking to their own value system and not a concrete, punishable system.

For me, this situation presents itself as a many layered value problem.
1. The member is responsible for deducing how much his money contributes to the model's survival. Too much of it and he is now entering a manipulative zone where he can ask for anything from her and she's going to probably give it to him.
2. The model is responsible for understanding the member's underlying desires beyond just what he says out loud. If she has good reason to believe he is in love with her, she should make sure he is not spending every dime he has trying to attain her. If he's spending play money, I have no moral quandary with love games. He can continue to play elsewhere later on so long as you don't sink him financially.
3. A member is responsible for reserving his financial support to those models who demonstrate good values. A dollar is a vote in the free market and people will conform to follow the money trail. Vote for qualities that you'd like to see flourish in the opposite sex.
 
That probably influences my cynicism over "camgirl addiction" or "porn addiction" or "money addiction". If the key to ending someone's addiction is just them putting their credit card down and joining a meeting or a therapist, they are very fortunate.

See, this is going a bit off topic, but I disagree with this statement. It is very easy to point the finger at one addiction and say one is worse or harder to get over than another. This does not seem to be the case though. We know much more about alcoholism, or addiction to opiates, and there are expensive rehab facilities set up to tackle these problems, but there are lots of more obscure addictions which are just as harmful, if not more. I wouldn't class porn addiction as being as physically harmful as alcoholism or heroin addiction, though it can financially have huge repercussions and cause a lot of harm to the person with the addiction. It definitely shouldn't be disregarded as simply putting their credit card down and getting therapy.
 
See, this is going a bit off topic, but I disagree with this statement. It is very easy to point the finger at one addiction and say one is worse or harder to get over than another. This does not seem to be the case though. We know much more about alcoholism, or addiction to opiates, and there are expensive rehab facilities set up to tackle these problems, but there are lots of more obscure addictions which are just as harmful, if not more. I wouldn't class porn addiction as being as physically harmful as alcoholism or heroin addiction, though it can financially have huge repercussions and cause a lot of harm to the person with the addiction. It definitely shouldn't be disregarded as simply putting their credit card down and getting therapy.

On top of this, as a society we have begun to change our view of people who seek and receive therapy for alcohol or drug addiction. Going to Alcoholics Anonymous or therapy is seen as the addict taking positive steps in their life, and is likely to receive support for their rehabilitation by their family and friends. On the other hand, I don't think porn addiction has gotten to the same point. A person with a porn addiction and seeking help may face a daunting reality to open up about it publicly - people still view this as a moral weakness or perversion. Not to mention the possible destruction of their closest support structure of family if this person is in a committed relationship/marriage. I imagine this leaves many porn addicts who want to rehabilitate to struggle in silence and solitude. If the addict is into watching cams, perhaps the model is their safest and most immediate confidante. I'm not saying it's the model's responsibility to aid in the rehabilitation, but surely there's room for some compassion and understanding on the part of the addict too.
 
I wouldn't class porn addiction as being as physically harmful as alcoholism or heroin addiction, though it can financially have huge repercussions and cause a lot of harm to the person with the addiction. It definitely shouldn't be disregarded as simply putting their credit card down and getting therapy.
100% nope. Any addiction is going to cost money and likely social standing while you're in it. I'm talking about the cost of overcoming it. The cost of overcoming porn addiction (or any addiction that does not include bodily dependency/bodily harm) IS going to be less than not overcoming it at all. There is financial benefit to dealing with a porn addiction instead of continuing it. The same is not true of opiate addiction. All addictions are not equal. That is not reality.
 
100% nope. Any addiction is going to cost money and likely social standing while you're in it. I'm talking about the cost of overcoming it. The cost of overcoming porn addiction (or any addiction that does not include bodily dependency/bodily harm) IS going to be less than not overcoming it at all. There is financial benefit to dealing with a porn addiction instead of continuing it. The same is not true of opiate addiction. All addictions are not equal. That is not reality.

Except addictions appear to affect the same neurological areas, and cause physical harm by doing so, whether they're taking a drug or taking part in a physical activity to gain the high. Some of the most addictive substances, such as crack cocaine, do not have a physical dependency. Gaming and social media addiction for example deteriorates grey matter, showing that there are implications. Or what about an addiction to food? There are real neurological differences in those with obesity who compulsively eat which makes it near impossible for them to stop, and the costs in treating the addiction and becoming healthy again are definitely there, as well as the risks involved with the addiction. Addictions for sure are not the same, they are complicated in individual ways, but I believe it is wrong to start talking about equality when what may seem like a silly addiction to one person, is a very real, horrific and life altering compulsion for another person. Stopping porn addiction may also not have a financial benefit as not all people pay for their porn. I guess I just think it's insensitive and incorrect to devalue one addiction versus another. That's like saying that people with BPD, anxiety or major depressive disorder deserve skepticism because Schizophrenia is "worse". There are negatives to all of them, and all can be completely life altering and expensive mental illnesses potentially leading to suicide. There are a huge range of addictions, and sure, they range in severity and physiological implications, but it is not helpful to start comparing them or disregarding one over another. Addiction and mental health already has such a negative stigma attached without us judging what deserves attention over what, or what is worse. I believe one day in the not too distant future, more treatment options will be offered for these other addictions which will have similar or the same cost implications as any alcohol or drug addiction, so while perhaps costs seem higher now for the more conventional addictions, remember that so long as there are less effective or available treatments for more obscure addictions, the addictions may continue longer and create more overall costs.

By porn addiction I am also not talking so much about the people who are using porn/camgirls as escapism and aren't genuinely addicted and are then claiming to be addicted for attention, I do not know what it is like to be inside anyone else's heads, but this may not actually be a porn or camgirl addiction but an obsession/habit which they don't wish to stop. Same as how some people over eat but they are not addicted to food, or you might love sex but not be addicted to it. I'm talking about people who are genuinely addicted to the high that watching camgirls/porn gives them, and genuinely cannot control themselves and get withdrawals if they cannot access it. People who would genuinely do anything possible to feed their high, even if it means losing people they love and everything they own. I guess you might as well say gambling addiction isn't worth sympathy, seeing as this has been discussed already on this thread, because you could "just quit and get counselling", except gambling addiction is a pretty major issue and very hard to quit.

Personally I have not been aware of coming across a member who is this addicted to camgirls, except possibly one, so it is likely not that common. I also feel like someone this addicted to camgirls would not ask individual camgirls to block them if they genuinely decided to quit for real and were seeking help, they would just delete their accounts and make sure they couldn't open another. That's just my hunch mind, I honestly haven't got a clue how they would react beyond my own bias.
 
I guess I just think it's insensitive and incorrect to devalue one addiction versus another.
Again, I totally disagree. Addiction and addictive behaviors can be the same, come from the same emotional places, but someone whose body becomes addicted to a substance is in a more dire and difficult situation than someone who is only going to need behavioral therapy to conquer their vice. The fact that porn or food can light up the same areas of the brain as a drug, isn't the same as someone who has created new receptors in their brain. There is no comparison, and there's no reason to pretend that addictions are equal. Maybe coming from a place with accessible healthcare makes it easier to perceive mental and physical problems equally solvable? In America, that's just not true. Here, your chances of overcoming a chemical addiction depend very much on your bank account. No one who is making bad decisions in relation to porn is going to go through withdrawals. Their wife isn't going to hold their head while they scream and have seizures. They don't have to scrape together money to continue recovery or schlep themselves an hour away to stand in line with the other recovering addicts before they go to their job and hope no one notices. Not equal. Not insensitive to call them unequal. Even if we step away from the opiate addiction concept, porn addiction is not equal to even food addiction. A food addict can't completey cut herself off from food. Her behavioral therapy is going to be a lot more difficult. I'm all for being PC and respecting other peoples' struggles, but I don't think that means we pretend that all struggles are the same or even require the same amount of respect or empathy.
 
CLEARLY sephora should ban me. I mean... They can see I've spent like 3k in the last year on makeup. I tell them everytime I'm in the store I spend too much there. I tell them I have a problem as they assist me and I fill my basket.

Clearly they should look at my account and be like "Miss your beauty Insider account shows you have TWELVE high end shadow palettes and that's just too much already so put down the too faced matte peach palette and leave the store."

Obviously I can't be held responsible for my own stupid behavior.


Side note I just left without that palette because I'm a grown ass bitch that knows shouldn't buy it after buying a gimbal and paying for a lash fill today and I'm grumpy about it.

Let's not even talk about how many palettes I own.... I mean. sure, they're mostly BH Cosmetics and ELF, so they weren't expensive, but I own almost every 28-shade palette from BH, their entire galaxy collection, and 90% of ELF's Palettes. They should have cut me off ages ago!


And I'm not even going to start on lip products. I should clearly be banned from NYX.com, I can't stop buying lipstick from them!
 
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isn't the same as someone who has created new receptors in their brain.

I am pretty certain that this does not happen and is not why physical addictions happen, where did you get this information as I would love to have a read? Your cells can become dependent on a drug and it can mess up your neurotransmitter release and re-uptake, but I've not heard of new neurons being created in the brain due to drug use.
 
@IsabellaSnow This is from https://americanaddictioncenters.org/heroin-treatment/effects/
Damage to thinking, decision-making, and behavior are the short-term mental effects of heroin abuse, but from the early days of the habit, the seeds are planted for what can happen in the long-term. One of the mechanics behind the rising tolerance for heroin in chronic users is that the brain is forced to create additional opiate receptors to accommodate the continuous flood of the drug. This is primarily why repeated blasts of heroin can’t duplicate the initial, novel experience of the drug; there is no way for the user’s brain to go back to the standard amount of opiate receptors. It is the process by which the user is compelled to take more and more heroin because there are always more new opiate receptors than there is heroin available.
The page is a lot longer if this kind of thing interests you. Kind of fascinating. I just snipped one part. Some of it is probably up for debate among doctors, but my husband's specialist has said pretty much this exact thing to him and encouraged him to accept that remaining on a treatment program will likely be a forever thing because of it.
 
@IsabellaSnow This is from https://americanaddictioncenters.org/heroin-treatment/effects/

The page is a lot longer if this kind of thing interests you. Kind of fascinating. I just snipped one part. Some of it is probably up for debate among doctors, but my husband's specialist has said pretty much this exact thing to him and encouraged him to accept that remaining on a treatment program will likely be a forever thing because of it.

Interesting read, I quickly read a few medical type articles about the same sort of thing to get more of an idea as that article is fairly simplified which makes some of it a bit misleading. I haven't got time to look into the depth of it just yet though, but interesting all the same.
The main gist of it though which seems to be one of the reasons you are arguing that an opiate addiction is particularly different to any other addiction, is pretty much the same as other addictions. The article seems to be focusing much more on the neurological reaction rather than the physical dependency, i.e. the release of neurotransmitters when a drug is taken, and then the eventual burnout of the receptors. But this part of addiction is not just with opiates or even with taking a physical drug, the high for sure is very different with say cocaine compared to a gambling addiction, but that need to constantly get the same high is still there, possibly to a more overwhelming level of compulsion. People seem to compare physical and psychological addictions as though they aren't both physical needs for that high, we consider psychological conditions as something we should be in control of, even though everything psychological is related to our physical brains, not just some abstract idea of the mind. What I am trying to emphasize is that this is not a healthy way to think. I do agree that any addiction that has physical dependency has a particularly harsh result of quitting, especially when if you relapse you have to deal with those physical issues over again, and some drugs have particularly awful physical side effects. I just disagree that this should rank any addiction as worse than another, or allow others to judge more trivial seeming addictions, everyone experiences things differently, and even addictions to the same drug or action can be completely different and varying in strength depending on the person. You are particularly close to this area having seen very real experiences first hand of someone struggling with a physical addiction, so I can see why you feel that this experience is worse than others. You know lots about these particular addictions, and I am definitely not discrediting the genuine pain you have experienced. All I am saying is not to discredit others, as their addictions are just as real to them. It may seem laughable to you that someone addicted to porn might be sweating and freaking out without access, sadly this is genuinely a reality for some. Even people with social media addictions can get severe levels of anxiety including panic attacks, which may not be due to physical dependency, but they have very physiological symptoms which are terrifying for the person feeling them.

I do wonder though, if part of the reason porn addiction seems so trivial and non important, is because there is such huge stigma around sex and watching porn. While this being a camgirl forum you would hope people would be more understanding, we are all raised and living in the same societies. There's an element that if a man's porn addiction ruins his marriage you might think "well mate, you shouldn't have been there anyway". Yet it's not the watching of the porn which is a problem, it's the addiction which comes from it which causes issues. When it becomes compulsive and completely out of control. I used to be addicted to sex, and it was a very real and actually pretty dangerous addiction, one which caused huge amounts of harm to myself. I don't have an addictive personality and seem fairly immune to physical addiction so I don't think it was that bad as far as addictions go, but I definitely got what at least felt like very physical reactions when I went without. I also have OCD, which some psychological disorders involving addiction are linked to, and there is basically no way you could stop yourself no matter how much counselling you do. Not the same as a heroin addiction, but very scary, especially if your addiction involved spending huge amounts of money compulsively. Each disorder comes with its own individual set of issues to overcome, and trying to pin one down over another as worse just isn't helpful. I'm not being politically correct either, I'm just stating that even scientists don't know much about some of these addictions, so what's the use in speculating and categorizing them?
 
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I'm obviously not camming my way through medical school over here. For me (and many other affected loved ones), the effects of chemical dependency and addiction are clear. I'm not speculating in order to categorize. I've watched my husband through 12 years of recovery. He does not receive compassion. No matter what he does in life, he'll have an expensive prescription for maintenance and be called a junkie. The world doesn't stop to help him, and it shouldn't. I'm trying to put some perspective on the idea that members who become addicted to camgirls have an addiction that requires the world around them to pause and take notice or provide relief. An addiction that ONLY requires behavioral therapy is as easy as it gets. We all have them, and they don't get fixed without taking responsibility for our own behavior. I disagree that a stigma on watching porn would create further problems for a "porn addict". Most Americans watch porn. There's no real stigma there if people are honest. If you put a camgirl on the street and make her confess that she provides porn and a member on the street professing that he's "addicted" to her, who is really going to get more shit for it? I'll put all my money on the camgirl. All of it. If it is insensitive to point out that some addictions are simpler to fix and rely only on the addict him/herself, is it insensitive to point out that a skinned knee is less painful than a broken arm? What kind of world are we living in that everyone's every issue calls for reverence and seriousness? I can't do that. I'm going to pipe down now. I don't think I have anything further to add without derailing things completely, and I don't really understand or respect your stance on this one.
 
All of it. If it is insensitive to point out that some addictions are simpler to fix and rely only on the addict him/herself, is it insensitive to point out that a skinned knee is less painful than a broken arm? What kind of world are we living in that everyone's every issue calls for reverence and seriousness? I can't do that.

There is an obsession with equality, it stems from an ideology that is all encompassing and very hard to fight. Like every ideology when the truth confronts it what the believer tends to do is fight to dismiss it. Reality must be banned to protect the ideology because picking reality would come at a great cost which is having to admit you were wrong and rebuilding your entire world view. This idea that everything must be equal to everything else makes it impossible to use reason. After all discrimination is necessary in order to reason (you need to be able to discern differences and create hierarchies in order to classify objects into systems).

To anyone outside the equalist religion is very easy to see that every addiction is different and some of them are worse than others. It is easy to see that some illnesses are worse than others. That some people are worse than others and some are better. I also have dealt with heroin addicts in my personal life and I was myself addicted to nicotine. While I could quit without too much effort after 10 years of using cigarettes my very close friend died of an overdose after trying rehab twice at the age of 27. It was really sad to see someone I loved wither and die because of a substance that took control of his mind and his body. This simply doesn’t happen with a tobacco habit or a porn vice. It is in its own league. And if anyone said Cigsrettes are as bad as heroin I would laugh.
 
This is a situation that I believe most successful camgirls have experienced a few times in their career.
One of your top 3 tippers for the last 6 months or more, tells you that he is running out of money.
This is because he has lost his job, or because he is tipping beyond his means and going through his inheritance, kids college funds, or accident payout etc.

To your surprise, over the next month or two, you really don't notice a big decrease in tipping. He does tell you about the financial stress this is causing, huge credit card bills, falling behind on mortgage payments, tuition payments, or wife threatened divorce.

So what are the ethics in this situation?
 
@Ambers Troll ^Your post is only showing you quoting HiGirlsRHot's post. Did you mean to post an emoticon in response to what he said, or are you just wanting to reiterate what he said?
 
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Thankfully I haven't been through this, so it's hard to say what I'd do for sure, but I think I'd personally suggest he cut back significantly or stop if that didn't work. But once you say that... I dunno, what else can you do? You could ban them, but it feels MORE immoral to tell someone what to do with their money in my opinion. What right do you have? I think the only reason to ban in that situation is if you're too uncomfortable hearing about it, not for his own sake. I don't think a model has any obligation. Models shouldn't manipulate members [in general, but especially] for money, but that doesn't mean she should be his financial adviser either.

On the flip side, damn, what a cruel person to tell a model this and continue to tip her huge amounts. :/ Do one or the other, not both.
Please understand as a member we don't mean to bring up financial situations. But in my case I did because I was lead to believe we were special friends and always had each others back. I lost 20k and a friend because I said I was in debt but still want to be close friends. She blocked and banned me to the point I can't even buy a video on MV. Please don't do this to your regulars. Talk it out offline and come to an agreement on there spending and what you expect from them. My situation almost lead to suicide. I supported this model and her sister going to college for 9 month. Talked daily on snap. Know won't even talk to me.
 
Please understand as a member we don't mean to bring up financial situations. But in my case I did because I was lead to believe we were special friends and always had each others back. I lost 20k and a friend because I said I was in debt but still want to be close friends. She blocked and banned me to the point I can't even buy a video on MV. Please don't do this to your regulars. Talk it out offline and come to an agreement on there spending and what you expect from them. My situation almost lead to suicide. I supported this model and her sister going to college for 9 month. Talked daily on snap. Know won't even talk to me.
I'm sorry you're hurt by this but I'm sure there's 2 sides to this story.
 
Please understand as a member we don't mean to bring up financial situations. But in my case I did because I was lead to believe we were special friends and always had each others back. I lost 20k and a friend because I said I was in debt but still want to be close friends. She blocked and banned me to the point I can't even buy a video on MV. Please don't do this to your regulars. Talk it out offline and come to an agreement on there spending and what you expect from them. My situation almost lead to suicide. I supported this model and her sister going to college for 9 month. Talked daily on snap. Know won't even talk to me.

You misjudged her character. Stop thinking that outward beauty indicates good inner qualities. Some beautiful people behave terribly.
 
I feel no, the viewers can do what they want. Although if someone starts tipping WAY too much then I slow things down a bit. xx
 
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