Members guilt-tripping models about breast implants

[VeronicaChaos]

Welp, I guess she speaks for women everywhere then.

:roll:

Saying "women should be able to do what they want as part of the feminist revolution" isn't really that novel of a concept, bro.

Who said it was? I just said that other women don't agree with with everything you say. Understand Bro?

OK, so if a female can't talk about feminism unless she speaks for EVERY WOMAN ALIVE she can't talk about feminism...and therefor...we can't talk about feminism? Because that's never going to happen. Women WILL disagree with feminism...that's why we talk about it. The more we talk about it, the clearer of an idea we have about it. It's evolved a lot due to rational conversation.

For the record, I argue about feminism with women all the time. If a woman wants to argue with me saying that "women modifying their bodies for themselves is relevant to the feminist movement, whether it's breast implants or tattoos" than by all means, I'll engage in debate.

 

[JickyJuly]

I think the MFC problem is that members aren't thinking through a camgirl's reasoning for mentioning her plans to get cosmetic surgery. Most women can get work done then show up at their place of employment fully clothed and not hear anything from patrons or coworkers. Maybe coworkers will speculate via gossip, but whatever has been done isn't really going to have to be discussed. We, however, get naked for a living. Whatever we do will be seen full on, and members already feel comfortable enough with us to talk about personal things. Any procedure will be seen and eventually be addressed. SO... some girls probably think it's a better plan to jump the bullet and mention surgical plans beforehand. These girls aren't bringing it up for the sake of discussion or to get input. They're attempting to give you dudes a heads up as not to shock you.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

I can't think of a woman that would argue that another woman getting breast implants to satisfy her own personal desires for her own body as 'horrible for the feminist revolution' as a woman making choices for herself is sort of the point of a feminist revolution, is it not?

They might argue that having your body cut open simply to satisfy your own personal desires is a step back for females. They might also argue that the reason some make these choices is part of the problem. They would also argue lots of other girly stuff I don't get. All women are different. Women I know in real life are strongly against implants, women here seem strongly for them. I can't say either is right or wrong.

 

[JickyJuly]

I can't think of a woman that would argue that another woman getting breast implants to satisfy her own personal desires for her own body as 'horrible for the feminist revolution' as a woman making choices for herself is sort of the point of a feminist revolution, is it not?

They might argue that having your body cut open simply to satisfy your own personal desires is a step back for females. They might also argue that the reason some make these choices is part of the problem. They would also argue lots of other girly stuff I don't get. All women are different. Women I know in real life are strongly against implants, women here seem strongly for them. I can't say either is right or wrong.

Women judging one another is the only step backward I can see. Some girls think being a feminist means denying female sexuality completely. Those women are confused, and it's not anyones' job to make decisions in order to placate society's inaccurate view of what a strong woman looks like.

 

[Nordling]

I don't think women on here are necessarily "for" implants; the gist I get--and it seems to be pretty much uniform among the women on here--is that when a woman decides that SHE wants implants, she is NOT inviting criticism. She's simply being informative. In other words, STFU. lol

Body modification is probably among the most personal of decisions a person can make. It is not on the same level as "I like fried okra." Personal decisions are just that--personal, and unless they ask for opinions, the classy thing to do is not volunteer your 2 cents.

 

[bob]

These girls aren't bringing it up for the sake of discussion or to get input. They're attempting to give you dudes a heads up as not to shock you.

this just struck my funnybone......it's not meant to stir the pot...

but the assumption here seems to be that all us guys are SO visual that we'll freak if we aren't giving the time for words to percolate into our intelligence and adjust our visual cortex.....like that's the safest way to avoid a trainwreck

i'm reminded of this gif....it doesn't matter what you do to a cow's reality....they just stand up and are still cows.....

http://gifsoup.com/view5/4390302/cows-h.gif

mooo :lol:

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I was not making an analogy about drunks and getting plastic surgery. I was giving two example of peer pressure working,one involving myself.

Also to be clear if model says, my surgery scheduled is next month. Then the only thing to do is STFU, and wish them well. But most of the time it is a long process from thinking about plastic surgery to committing to do it. It is this decision phase I am talking about giving input on.

I am confident that almost all models do lots of research prior to getting surgery. In any event I haven't done any research on the subject so I am sure they know more than myself about the medical aspects.

A big reason woman get breast implants is to improve their perceived appearance. In the case of adult models this is most often to attract guys, on the belief that big boobs equal big bucks. I think there is a probably some truth to this assumption, but honestly I don't know. What I don't think many models are aware of is how many guys are vehemently anti implant. Guys like girls talk differently when they are talk primarily to other guys. After reading 15 years of the Playboy cyberclub forum, I can say I have seen thousands of posts along these lines. "I was going vote for this girl for cyberclub of month/year, join her website etc. but she got implants and I hate implants so much I've changed my mind. . Two things to note about these guys, who I'll say have a natural fetish. Unlike most guys on MFC, they do spend money on porn, and they probably will never tip a model if they know she has implants.

If you are successful model on MFC with small boobs, it is pretty likely that you don't have regulars with big boob fetish, cause if they did they wouldn't be tipping you. What you don't know is how many of your regulars have a natural fetish. Simply saying "I think you are perfect the way you are", does a disservice to a girl, if you feel so strongly about implants that there is a good chance after she gets implants that you'll find a different natural model to tip. If a models top regulars all let her know that they really don't think she needs implants, then she should realize that that some of these guys will stop tipping her and probably so will others who felt uncomfortable telling her. If a primary motivation for getting implants is to make more money, than she should rethink her decision based on this feedback.

Now most guys like big boobs, and most of us aren't fanatical about implants. So the new regulars a busty model gains may more than compensate for the natural fetish guys she loses.
Like many things on MFCs, I think it is tradeoff between receiving honest feedback, which very well may hurt your feelings, and making more money. Different models I am sure will have different priorities.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

OK, so if a female can't talk about feminism unless she speaks for EVERY WOMAN ALIVE she can't talk about feminism...and therefor...we can't talk about feminism?

Where did I say anything like that? Your post just seemed to imply that your idea of feminism is the widely accepted/right one and that kinda bothered me.

 

[Wabi_Sabi]

She wasn't saying "we need to all get boob jobs to support woman's rights!" she was saying that it is our right to have a boob job if we wish to. If a feminist argues with that, then they're no feminist.

It's an awkward one, and encompasses the "can a man be a feminist" debate, but I recall Germaine Greer arguing that women shaving, slimming down, getting plastic surgery etc was essentially her becoming less of a woman and something to be criticised from her pov - this was some years ago. It's certainly not unheard of for a self professed female feminist to criticise what other women do with their bodies, it starts to come down to "I'm a feminist", "No you're not". Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs comes to mind, a quote from the The Grauniad article a while back:

"The whole argument that women are choosing this path themselves, and that that makes it OK, doesn't particularly make sense to me," says Levy. "I mean," she pauses, "I suppose it is a tiny nugget of progress, but it's like we have taken the cage away from women and none of us is trying to escape, we're just behaving exactly as we think men want us to. In terms of the Cake parties, I just didn't think that they were really about women's sexual pleasure at all. It was like being at your average strip club. And if you're going to try to sell that to me as feminist, then I'm just going to laugh at you."

Whilst anyone arguing with the right to have a boob job may look like a bit of tit, it's different from calling someone a tit for doing it.

 

[Ariel_Moon]

I can't think of a woman that would argue that another woman getting breast implants to satisfy her own personal desires for her own body as 'horrible for the feminist revolution' as a woman making choices for herself is sort of the point of a feminist revolution, is it not?

They might argue that having your body cut open simply to satisfy your own personal desires is a step back for females. They might also argue that the reason some make these choices is part of the problem. They would also argue lots of other girly stuff I don't get. All women are different. Women I know in real life are strongly against implants, women here seem strongly for them. I can't say either is right or wrong.

I am not pro implants at all. I don't want them, I would feel weird if I had them and MY personal preference of what I generally find attractive in females is usually natural, I'm a bit of a hippy at heart.

But I would never, ever, EVER argue that someone should not get them if they wanted them. as has been stated millions of times on this thread IT IS UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL.

And if someone I fancied loads wanted to get bigger breasts and got them done well and was happy, jesus fucking christ I'd just get over it. They're just breasts. Fucking hell.

Lumps of fat or plastic. Who the fuck cares. We all need to grow up and get over this.

Re: Feminism...Veronicas idea of feminism is what feminism should be. Sadly it's not yet because everyone gets caught up over stupid shit and ends up having circular debates about nothing. Like this.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Women judging one another is the only step backward I can see.

Humans judging one another based on choices they make is human nature. If a guy I know gets a huge nazi sign tattooed on his face, I think of him differently then others.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

She wasn't saying "we need to all get boob jobs to support woman's rights!" she was saying that it is our right to have a boob job if we wish to. If a feminist argues with that, then they're no feminist.

It's an awkward one, and encompasses the "can a man be a feminist" debate, but I recall Germaine Greer arguing that women shaving, slimming down, getting plastic surgery etc was essentially her becoming less of a woman and something to be criticised from her pov - this was some years ago. It's certainly not unheard of for a self professed female feminist to criticise what other women do with their bodies, it starts to come down to "I'm a feminist", "No you're not". Levy's Female Chauvinist Pigs comes to mind, a quote from the The Grauniad article a while back:

"The whole argument that women are choosing this path themselves, and that that makes it OK, doesn't particularly make sense to me," says Levy. "I mean," she pauses, "I suppose it is a tiny nugget of progress, but it's like we have taken the cage away from women and none of us is trying to escape, we're just behaving exactly as we think men want us to. In terms of the Cake parties, I just didn't think that they were really about women's sexual pleasure at all. It was like being at your average strip club. And if you're going to try to sell that to me as feminist, then I'm just going to laugh at you."

Whilst anyone arguing with the right to have a boob job may look like a bit of tit, it's different from calling someone a tit for doing it.

This is a really outdated view of feminism that is in the process of becoming extinct. Feminism, like all parts of humanity, is constantly evolving. I don't think that second-wave feminism is BAD; it was a reaction to the world and culture from whence it came. However, in the modern time we've grown past that. From wiki on third-wave feminism:

Third-wave theory usually incorporates elements of queer theory; anti-racism and women-of-color consciousness; womanism; girl power; post-colonial theory; postmodernism; transnationalism; cyberfeminism; ecofeminism; individualist feminism; new feminist theory, transgender politics, and a rejection of the gender binary. Also considered part of the third wave is sex-positivity, a celebration of sexuality as a positive aspect of life, with broader definitions of what sex means and what oppression and empowerment may imply in the context of sex. For example, many third-wave feminists have reconsidered the opposition to pornography and sex work of the second wave, and challenge existing beliefs that participants in pornography and sex work are always being exploited.[3]

(edit)
Also, THIS:

Proponents of third-wave feminism claim that it allows women to define feminism for themselves by incorporating their own identities into the belief system of what feminism is and what it can become through one's own perspective. In the introduction to the idea of third-wave feminism in Manifesta, authors Jennifer Baumgardner and Amy Richards suggest that feminism can change with every generation and individual:
The fact that feminism is no longer limited to arenas where we expect to see it — NOW, Ms., women's studies, and redsuited Congresswomen — perhaps means that young women today have really reaped what feminism has sown. Raised after Title IX and William Wants a Doll [sic], young women emerged from college or high school or two years of marriage or their first job and began challenging some of the received wisdom of the past ten or twenty years of feminism. We're not doing feminism the same way that the seventies feminists did it; being liberated doesn't mean copying what came before but finding one's own way-- a way that is genuine to one's own generation.[8]

 

[Wabi_Sabi]

I appreciate the sentiments from Greer are somewhat outdated but Levy's work is fairly current and whilst being feminist doesn't seem to be a huge fan of third wave feminism, current feminism doesn't seem to be a monolithic block under the third wave banner.

 

[Nordling]

Yes, feminism is a very diverse movement. Read Camille Paglia (who I don't always agree with) to get a radically different view.

 

[NoelleBright]

Women judging one another is the only step backward I can see.

Humans judging one another based on choices they make is human nature. If a guy I know gets a huge nazi sign tattooed on his face, I think of him differently then others.

How are these things even comparable?
Getting a universally recognized symbol of hate tattooed on your face is a far cry from having your cup size expanded.

 

[JickyJuly]

Women judging one another is the only step backward I can see.

Humans judging one another based on choices they make is human nature. If a guy I know gets a huge nazi sign tattooed on his face, I think of him differently then others.

and you're free to judge him, but you're not free to decide whether he can be a feminist or not based on how stupidly he decorates his body. Just because women have twats doesn't mean they can decide which women qualify as good feminists. Any woman who keeps on trucking and does what she wants to do ( despite what society, men and some uptight women may say about it) is a fine representation of feminism. This "feminists can't wear make up, shave, have fake tits, suck cock, love men" "feminists can't ever be submissive" etc. is just bullshit propaganda put out there to continue controlling women. The fact that many women fall for it doesn't make it right.

 

[Evvie]

:confused1:

 

[RoxieRed]

I read the first few posts of this thread, came back and just read the last 3.. and I kinda don't wanna read the rest. I think I'm just gonna get pissed.

 

[Ariel_Moon]

Why are we even arguing about the definition of feminism again?

Because I'm pretty sure that most of the dudes who are getting upset and bitching about their fave model getting new boobs aren't doing it because they want to aid the fight against the patriarchy.

 

[Evvie]

I read the first few posts of this thread, came back and just read the last 3.. and I kinda don't wanna read the rest. I think I'm just gonna get pissed.

Here is the best I can tell:

OP: Why do members guilt-trip models about their breast implants?
*some posts about why it is okay to comment on a model's breasts, and some other posts talking about why there is a difference between guilt-tripping and commenting*
*comment about how feminism is a thing*
*feminism argument*

 

[PunkInDrublic]

How are these things even comparable?

Both are choices people make that others judge them by.

 

[Ariel_Moon]

I AM GOING TO STOP POSTING NOW BECAUSE IT'S ALL RIDICULOUS. But just needed to state that also while it's true that a lot of dudes do prefer natural, and a lot of you guys here do...probably because a lot of you came here because you are fans of the gorgeous Amber who has beautiful, natural, big bazoomas.

However it can't be denied that a lot of ladies who cam and get new boobs have stated that their incomes have doubled/tripled/quadrupled. And a lot of the top 20 and top 100 girls have fake boobs and millions of fans. So do a lot of popular pornstars.

Theres definitely a huge market for it.

It's no like it's always a huge freakazoid WTF but SHE'LL LOSE HER FANS decision.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I didn't read through the entire thread. I apologize if this has been stated before.
I find it hilarious that so many guys say they hate fake boobs, but most of them can't even tell the difference (with a natural looking augmentation)
Playboy has a test where they show a bunch of boobs and people can guess which are real or fake. I got a 30% on the test and I know many guys who said they did just as poorly as me. I had a friend who had a boob job and went from an AA to a B cup. A guy we worked with said to her, " I don't know why girls get fake tits. Yours are so natural and perfect, they should just stick with natural, like you did." She agreed with him and we both laughed our asses off after.
Anyways, so many guys can't tell the difference. The fake boobs they say they don't like are the ones that LOOK fake, but so many don't. Also, many girls have said their income has increased greatly with a boob job. So I guess it goes to show that many guys like NICE boobs, real or fake.

 

[Rose]

How are these things even comparable?

Both are choices people make that others judge them by.

If you're content to judge other people, then that probably explains why all of your posts sound incredibly dickish.

It would also answer my question that this isn't something you seem to be able to help.

Breast augmentation, tattoos, body modifications of any kind are not grounds for judgement at all imo. What a person chooses to do to their body is their business. I do not live in their body so I cannot judge them. When a camgirl friend of mine on here got her implants, I simply said, "yay! I'm so happy that you're happy!" That's about the only thing that should be said to a camgirl (or any person) when she (or he) opts for body modifications of any kind. Guilt tripping any person for what they did to their body is tactless, disgusting and rude beyond comprehension. Unless that person is a minor that you're legally in charge of caring for, then you don't get a say so in what they do to their body. :twocents-02cents:

 

[PlayboyMegan]

To answer the OP. Guys criticize other women because they are so narcissistic they believe their unwanted opinion actually matters. News flash, no one gives a flying fuck what you think, asshole.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Now see, this is sort of what I was talking about in an earlier post when I said guys react this way because many believe women are getting boob jobs to become more sexually attractive to men.

This was something I actually witnessed while lurking in an mfc room. The model was talking about getting a boob job, the members were universally reacting negatively, and the model said(not a direct quote, but close) "you guys say that now, but I know guys like big boobs."

This is a misconception that women seem to have about men. If you took a poll of men, I would be willing to bet my soul that the order of preference consensus would be something like Natural C-D cups - Natural smaller than C cups - Natural larger than D cup - Fake of any size.

Generally, in my experience as a man, and knowing men, men do not like fake boobs over natural boobs. Period. And like crappuccino said, this is what guys say. We're not lying. Yet for some reason women seem to think the opposite and I am honestly confused as to why.

I don't think it is a clear cut as this. But there is a large group of guys who do feel exactly the way you do and these guys aren't lying. Personally, I have seen example of models started of as A cups, who were enhanced to a B/C who's appearance improved IMO. So I personally would say I rather see very good implants than a girl with small boobs. Plus if we are being honest sometimes the boob jobs are good enough that we aren't sure or if they are real or fake. Still woman shouldn't think men are stupid about these things. Playboy had done a zillion real or fake quizzes over the years and lots of guys score 70%+. Also while no girl thinks her surgeon is going give her a bad boob job,they happen a lot, and everybody hates them.

So most of the time when guys tell girls don't get a boob job. It isn't because we think you are stupid girls who are doing this on a whim. They cost a lot of money and are painful and we assume you know all of that. It is the assumption that bigger boobs will make you more desirable. Sure we may mention all of the issues involved with plastic surgery, and this is stupid on our part, but we become frustrated. Girls think guys think bigger is better when it comes to boobs, it isn't that simple.

 

[Shaun__]

I didn't read through the entire thread. I apologize if this has been stated before.
I find it hilarious that so many guys say they hate fake boobs, but most of them can't even tell the difference (with a natural looking augmentation)
Playboy has a test where they show a bunch of boobs and people can guess which are real or fake. I got a 30% on the test and I know many guys who said they did just as poorly as me. I had a friend who had a boob job and went from an AA to a B cup. A guy we worked with said to her, " I don't know why girls get fake tits. Yours are so natural and perfect, they should just stick with natural, like you did." She agreed with him and we both laughed our asses off after.
Anyways, so many guys can't tell the difference. The fake boobs they say they don't like are the ones that LOOK fake, but so many don't. Also, many girls have said their income has increased greatly with a boob job. So I guess it goes to show that many guys like NICE boobs, real or fake.

I have seen great breast augmentation that looked real as can be, but I have also seen good ones that were noticeable. The implant seemed to poke out on the sides whenever they lift their arms. I do not know if it is the type, size, implant location, or the surgeon at fault.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Now see, this is sort of what I was talking about in an earlier post when I said guys react this way because many believe women are getting boob jobs to become more sexually attractive to men.

This was something I actually witnessed while lurking in an mfc room. The model was talking about getting a boob job, the members were universally reacting negatively, and the model said(not a direct quote, but close) "you guys say that now, but I know guys like big boobs."

This is a misconception that women seem to have about men. If you took a poll of men, I would be willing to bet my soul that the order of preference consensus would be something like Natural C-D cups - Natural smaller than C cups - Natural larger than D cup - Fake of any size.

Generally, in my experience as a man, and knowing men, men do not like fake boobs over natural boobs. Period. And like crappuccino said, this is what guys say. We're not lying. Yet for some reason women seem to think the opposite and I am honestly confused as to why.

I don't think it is a clear cut as this. But there is a large group of guys who do feel exactly the way you do and these guys aren't lying. Personally, I have seen example of models started of as A cups, who were enhanced to a B/C who's appearance improved IMO. So I personally would say I rather see very good implants than a girl with small boobs. Plus if we are being honest sometimes the boob jobs are good enough that we aren't sure or if they are real or fake. Still woman shouldn't think men are stupid about these things. Playboy had done a zillion real or fake quizzes over the years and lots of guys score 70%+. Also while no girl thinks her surgeon is going give her a bad boob job,they happen a lot, and everybody hates them.

So most of the time when guys tell girls don't get a boob job. It isn't because we think you are stupid girls who are doing this on a whim. They cost a lot of money and are painful and we assume you know all of that. It is the assumption that bigger boobs will make you more desirable. Sure we may mention all of the issues involved with plastic surgery, and this is stupid on our part, but we become frustrated. Girls think guys think bigger is better when it comes to boobs, it isn't that simple.

I thanked the part where you said some girls appearances have improved.
...and the narcissism continues...
The part that I disagree with is that you think we get boob jobs to make us more desirable. Hahaha!!!!! Although, that may be true for SOME women, many make body mods for themselves. It has nothing to do with how guys view them. The thought that we change ourselves to please you, is laughable. Many of us make desisions because WE like the way it looks!

 

[PunkInDrublic]

What a person chooses to do to their body is their business. I do not live in their body so I cannot judge them. When a camgirl friend of mine on here got her implants, I simply said, "yay! I'm so happy that you're happy!" That's about the only thing that should be said to a camgirl (or any person) when she (or he) opts for body modifications of any kind. Guilt tripping any person for what they did to their body is tactless, disgusting and rude beyond comprehension. Unless that person is a minor that you're legally in charge of caring for, then you don't get a say so in what they do to their body. :twocents-02cents:

I agree.

 

[Trav]

Now see, this is sort of what I was talking about in an earlier post when I said guys react this way because many believe women are getting boob jobs to become more sexually attractive to men.

This was something I actually witnessed while lurking in an mfc room. The model was talking about getting a boob job, the members were universally reacting negatively, and the model said(not a direct quote, but close) "you guys say that now, but I know guys like big boobs."

This is a misconception that women seem to have about men. If you took a poll of men, I would be willing to bet my soul that the order of preference consensus would be something like Natural C-D cups - Natural smaller than C cups - Natural larger than D cup - Fake of any size.

Generally, in my experience as a man, and knowing men, men do not like fake boobs over natural boobs. Period. And like crappuccino said, this is what guys say. We're not lying. Yet for some reason women seem to think the opposite and I am honestly confused as to why.

I don't think it is a clear cut as this. But there is a large group of guys who do feel exactly the way you do and these guys aren't lying. Personally, I have seen example of models started of as A cups, who were enhanced to a B/C who's appearance improved IMO. So I personally would say I rather see very good implants than a girl with small boobs. Plus if we are being honest sometimes the boob jobs are good enough that we aren't sure or if they are real or fake. Still woman shouldn't think men are stupid about these things. Playboy had done a zillion real or fake quizzes over the years and lots of guys score 70%+. Also while no girl thinks her surgeon is going give her a bad boob job,they happen a lot, and everybody hates them.

That's a good point, and one I should have mentioned. My argument was based around a scenario where the implants are obvious. There are certainly boob jobs that look real, but I'd argue those are a very low percentage of the whole. It might be difficult to tell a very good boob job from real breasts, especially in a test where the selections are picked to be difficult, but in general I'd say it's not hard to tell fake breasts from real ones.