How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible?

[IsabellaSnow]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I disagree that camgirls don't make members' lives better. I mean, obviously not ALL camgirls improve the lives of their members, and not ALL members have their lives improved by camgirls. But you seem to be implying that men who watch camgirls only do it for lack of other human interaction which is certainly not the case for every member.

But in all the cases you gave the member ventured out into the real world which made his life better. Life isn't on a computer, it's in the real world. A member enjoying the time of a model and then getting the confidence boost to go into the real world and change things isn't the model making his life better, that's all him. She was just the one who helped him through a harder time and gave him the extra push, but at the end of the day it was him who made his own life better. If he'd stuck around camsites forever then his life wouldn't have become better. Does that make any sense?
Kind of like a counsellor doesn't make your life better, they just help you reach the conclusions that you need. It's you who can either take it or leave it.

If you are on a camsite it is because you're craving human interaction. That doesn't mean you're some basement dweller who has no real life friends. For example I am regularly lonely, yet I have an active social life and plenty of people around me a lot of the time. Sometimes we just crave that little bit more, whether you're married/in a relationship or are single. It's completely natural, especially in todays world where we're all so distant from each other rather than living in small communities. Some members use camsites as souly wank material which is different, but I wouldn't really say wank material makes your life better. In fact porn can de-sensitise you and can make sex actually worse.

One negative of camsites is that they're online (obviously it's a benefit too). Spending long periods of time on a computer isn't healthy. Your brain works differently when using a computer. It's not natural. Sitting still indoors staring at a computer for long periods of time with no physical interaction is going to take its toll on you. Don't get me wrong, I spend wayy too long on my laptop and it makes me feel like shit but I'm still addicted to it.

Cases like Reds are different as it's gone past the member/model relationship and has ventured into real life.

 

[DeezNA]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I'm a little late to the party here, so I'll try not to derail too much.

Any debate of ethics is a purely subjective matter. Our ethics, morals, comfort-levels, etc. all vary from person-to-person. Given that, the only person who can answer the questions that CutieSnugler asked in this thread is... you guessed it... CutieSnugler!

"But Deez, what does that mean? Who's right and who's wrong here? What about the studios?"

Hold on, I'm getting to that.

We are all responsible and accountable for our own decisions, we're all adults. On the member side of camsites, we are expected to participate actively in rooms when we can, show appreciation for models and compensate them as we see fit for the services they have provided us and just generally not be a douchebag. Members and regulars are not ethically obligated to do anything; their patronage, presentation and attendance in rooms is entirely up to individual choice. Choosing not to be a dickwad is as much an ethical decision as hanging out with a drunk model.

"Oh shit, he mentioned drunk models!"

Looks like it's time to talk about the other side of the camera...

Models are not only ethically but contractually responsible for their behavior on screen. Every model *always* has the option to turn the camera off. Period. If she/he is choosing to work in an inebriated state (which most sites have policies against, how strictly they are enforced is another question entirely), the model has made that decision. They are not a victim, they knowingly hit the broadcast button and they can hit it again at any point. The risk for the model is WELL beyond losing a few regulars, they could potentially get booted from the site as "excessive consumption of alcohol" is in fact a breach of contract (though that could easily be contested).

"Alright, but what about those studio models that they keep in cages in countries who's names I can't pronounce?"

Studios are also contractually obligated under specific terms and conditions to treat their models fairly. I don't know much about how official they need to make their "studio" to have it actually recognized as a studio, but I am assuming they would need to register and would be required to treat their employees fairly, depending on the laws of the country in question (as discussed earlier). Yes, trafficking and exploitation is a scary possibility. We have laws and policies in place to try to prevent that as much as possible, all we can do is report suspicious behavior to be looked into further and I *highly* encourage everyone to do this. If the studio is legitimate, the models signed their contracts fully aware of the pay cuts, hours and expectations of them.

".........Wat?"

Okay, I've been typing a while, let me break it down.

Camsites have policies in place to restrict or prevent behavior that has been deemed "unethical" on a legal level. It's up to all of us to report breaches of policy that we deem unethical (everything from abusive members to models who's health or safety we would be concerned about). This is a surprisingly uncommon thing and it is extremely disconcerting. You don't have to have a melt-down or try to be a hero, just report the event and let someone who's job it is to handle these things take care of it.

If you are uncomfortable on an ethical level in a model's room, politely leave. I have done this more times than I can count. For me, visiting models is not really a sexual thing, I'm going to hang out with the gang. If I get uncomfortable by the direction the room has gone, I will politely show myself out. You *always* have the option to leave. If you stay in a room past the point where your personal ethical boundaries have been breached, you did that to yourself.

 

[Leon_Omega]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

So... it was a dig at the forum?

8 hours a day 6 days a week is pretty intense. My ex has I think a 47.5 hour contract which doesn't include his breaks which means he has to work 10 hours a day 5 days a week. In fact he rarely even gets to take a break during these shifts, maybe 5/10 mins. It's not legal but hard to monitor. Doing those sorts of shifts on cam is crazy. Thing is with camming, though some girls seem to have crazy amounts of energy and can act like hyperactive sexy, cute, interesting sexbots for 8 hours straight most people just cannot handle that without going mad! In a regular job I don't have to act like I'm having the time of my life without actually having any interaction with others besides words on a screen and some background music.

We make our customers lives better and that's all we do.

I'm guessing from the use of "we" in this comment that you're part of running a studio or you are a model? You don't really sound like a model though from how you're coming across.

I'm not entirely sure camsites do make customer's lives better. I think we live in a world that has become so over populated that it's become lonely. People shy away from strangers and making connections is not as easy as perhaps it once was. We have these screens in our houses where inside is a wealth of information and miraculously, other people! So we go on these screens trying to form connections as of course we're lonely, anyone sat at home alone will be lonely as we are naturally social creatures. Places like MFC take advantage of this.
Problem is, it masks the symptoms of loneliness rather than dealing with the root of the problem. This can be an incredible thing, but it can also be people's worst enemy.

Do camgirls make a member's life better? No I would say they don't. Your life is outside the computer and camgirls can either distract someone from the real world or they can help give them the confidence to venture into the real world.
Do camgirls help combat the sting of loneliness? Yes they do.
Suicide is a major killer in men at the moment. I think possibly a large part is because loneliness and depression go hand in hand. Having someone on the other side of the computer screen who's fun, chatty and is interested in talking to you I imagine helps make life easier to live if you're going through a rough patch.

I disagree that camgirls don't make members' lives better. I mean, obviously not ALL camgirls improve the lives of their members, and not ALL members have their lives improved by camgirls. But you seem to be implying that men who watch camgirls only do it for lack of other human interaction which is certainly not the case for every member.

I have had members who moved on from me because, according to one, I helped them regain their "mojo"; that is, interaction with me helped them understand that talking to women IRL doesn't have to be daunting or scary. This is a member I had grown particularly close to so his absence hurt a bit but I was so glad to hear that the hours (literally) we had spent together on camsites had changed his life for the better! I have also had married couples, or dudes who use cams as a surrogate for intimacy they don't get in their real life relationships (ex: a man whose wife is alive but cannot engage sexually, who uses cams to that end because an IRL sexual relationship outside his marriage is not in the cards.) Many more members just use cams as a form of entertainment, like TV or video games. I get Snaps from members like this full of friends, concerts, pets, jobs, and family, so they are clearly not lacking in the social department.

Obviously there are some members to whom cam sites can be detrimental but I do not believe they are the majority.

I fully agree with Lily, camgirls do definitely make my life better simply because they provide interaction with people who have very different lives to mine. Admittedly, I use MFC less as an escape and more as a source of entertainment when I have a few minutes/hours to kill. It doesn't interfere with my social life nor does it make my life any less interesting. If I had not made an MFC account, the time spent there would have gone into watching movies, reading books or playing games.

Camgirls provide an outlet for me to explore parts of my being that I don't get to explore and share with "traditional" friends. I'm currently sitting on my best friend's couch as I write this, and despite the fact that we share pretty much everything else, my sexual interests/fetishes seem to be off-limits. I don't know why, but we just never seem comfortable talking about stuff like that (despite or maybe because of the fact that neither of us is interested in anything but a purely patonic relationship).

I'll bet that the majority of cam-pervs are doing it for entertainment, with only a fraction of members actually using these sites as a substitute for human contact.

But in all the cases you gave the member ventured out into the real world which made his life better. Life isn't on a computer, it's in the real world.

You seem to have a very black-and-white view of how this works. I'm a communication major and part of becoming one means that there have been long stretches of time where I effectively lived on the internet/my laptop. Implying that the time spent living like that didn't count as "real life" or didn't improve my life would diminish the wonderful people who ended up geting me to explore new forms of art, new lines of thinking or who simply gave me a look into a wildly different culture, making me more knowledgeable about the world as a result. Everything I learned from strangers on the internet whom I will never meet face-to-face has helped me become a more (for lack of a better term) interesting person. Interacting in that unusual kind of way has helped me come out of my shell much further than I had previously, when interaction was still fairly daunting because I had a much smaller reference pool.

Speaking of which, with the internet at my fingertips, it has become much easier to immerse oneself into any subject, again fueling further interaction by granting new avenues of potential conversation topics. This past Saturday I finally came face-to-face with two people I had met through the internet (or technically through the aforementioned best friend), despite the fact that we had never met before, the three of us had a blast talking as peers and mrore importantly, like people who had known each other for years.

A member enjoying the time of a model and then getting the confidence boost to go into the real world and change things isn't the model making his life better, that's all him. She was just the one who helped him through a harder time and gave him the extra push, but at the end of the day it was him who made his own life better. If he'd stuck around camsites forever then his life wouldn't have become better. Does that make any sense?

It does, and I do agree that a large part of it is the fact that that member took the step to put what he'd gained by talking to the model into practice. But that does not mean that the camgirl's effort in making his life better no longer counts. Without the camgirl's interaction, his life would not have developed in such a way at that time, so she most certainly did make his life better, simply by being the force that put him (back) on track towards an improved life.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are a bunch of camgirls out there whom I know I would be buddies with had we met in the conventional way. But this would have never happened if not for the camsite, which facilitated the meeting of two people who had similar interests. These girls definitely enriched my life through talking back and forth and being there to bounce ideas off of (in addition to the regular fapper-fappee camgirl interaction, of course), but I would not have met them normally because I don't generally go to the US for shits and giggles, and even then I'd have to have the massive luck that I'd gone to the place where they lived, went out at a time where they decided to do the same, etc. A LOT of chance goes into a meeting of two people and with the internet making the world smaller, the chance to meet people who will make a positive difference in your life increases, because we're no longer bound by the limits of conventional communication.

Speaking of communication, I cannot begin to tell you how much my life has improved simply by having 75-80% of my daily communication having been in English for several years. It may seem silly, but that time spent interacting with people in a different language got me a LOT of practice that ended up helping me get a girlfriend in both Scotland and the US, neither of which I'd have met without the internet. Not just that, but the best friend I mentioned? She's English. As are the guys I met last Saturday, as is the friend I visited durign the Halloween weekend where I met my best friend, as is her 8 year-old daughter who got me out of a fairly gloomy time in my life back in the summer of 2008, the list goes on for quite a bit, but my point remains that all of these things were possible because my communication skills were kept up by my daily interaction with people from 6 different countries in a language that is not my mother tongue.

I am adamant that my life has improved as a direct result of my having discovered camsites. Not just in terms of interaction, but also because the past two years taught me more about my own sexuality than the rest of my life put together. Something I would have only found out otherwise in a stable relationship with the right partner.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I think it's just a different interpretation of the term "making members lives better". I believe that the interaction with camgirls can by all means help lead to a members life being better. I guess it's like I enjoy reading books, books enrich my life, but they don't make my life better, more enjoyable yes, but when I put the book down my life is still the same. Books can teach you things you never would have learned alone. There is a wealth of knowledge in them which you can take or leave. If you never choose to make those changes then nothing will change. If you spend too long reading books and you'll never accomplish anything. Same as watching television, playing games and watching camgirls.
I guess I see the word "make" as being the wrong word to use. I know it's being pedantic but it implies something different to what you seem to mean. A better phrase would be that camgirls can enrich the lives of members. As in they can make their lives fuller, give them something extra etc, or maybe that camgirls can change the lives of members.
But then blanket statements are never good. Lots of member's end up being worse off from viewing camgirls, whether by spending too much money or too much time. I wouldn't say that models make members lives worse either just because some members end up in lousy situations. It works both ways. People at the end of the day are responsible for their own lives.

The learning a language one though is an awesome thing to learn while doing something fun! I'm actually jealous that I don't have a hobby which forces me to learn another language.

 

[Leon_Omega]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I think it's just a different interpretation of the term "making members lives better". I believe that the interaction with camgirls can by all means help lead to a members life being better. I guess it's like I enjoy reading books, books enrich my life, but they don't make my life better, more enjoyable yes, but when I put the book down my life is still the same. Books can teach you things you never would have learned alone. There is a wealth of knowledge in them which you can take or leave. If you never choose to make those changes then nothing will change. If you spend too long reading books and you'll never accomplish anything. Same as watching television, playing games and watching camgirls.
I guess I see the word "make" as being the wrong word to use. I know it's being pedantic but it implies something different to what you seem to mean. A better phrase would be that camgirls can enrich the lives of members. As in they can make their lives fuller, give them something extra etc, or maybe that camgirls can change the lives of members.
But then blanket statements are never good. Lots of member's end up being worse off from viewing camgirls, whether by spending too much money or too much time. I wouldn't say that models make members lives worse either just because some members end up in lousy situations. It works both ways. People at the end of the day are responsible for their own lives.

The learning a language one though is an awesome thing to learn while doing something fun! I'm actually jealous that I don't have a hobby which forces me to learn another language.

Fair enough, I was indeed talking about enrichment of a member's life as a result of interaction with camgirls, yes.

And I fully agree, people are responsible for their own actions. You can warn them all you want, but in the end it's their mistake to make.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

As a member there are a few ethical issues I consider.
When it comes to my own behaviour they include; rules on consent, model selection/ fair spending rules, site selection, and rules on interactions.
When it comes to model behaviour they include; how she sets boundaries, how she trades with spending members, etiquette, and my ethical judgement of her every thought or action.
When it comes to camming itself, ethical issues include; the gambling style addiction to it many members go through, issues on sexuality (men and women), issues on power (sexual/ financial/ psychological), and some issues of fairness (models being paid fairly, that they are not being exploited and so on).

Our own choices and behaviour we can control, all the rest we either choose to accept or not accept depending on our ethical position. How a member chooses to spend does have an ethical position to it. For myself some ethical positions I take in regard to spending are;
1. Not to spend in ways that push interaction or consent rules too far. This involves such things as giving a model appropriate time for private shows, not leaving too fast after a show, not playing certain psychological games with models and so on.
2. If I enjoy a model I keep her in mind for spending, to respect the model for her work.
3. I don't censor my own model choice in any way before meeting her. Fairness ethic.
4. I choose to spend freely based on interest/ how I like or enjoy a model, and never based on obligation, loyalty, or habit. If I am unsure, I don't spend. Following my own instinct/ heart ethic.
5. I don't allow any extra influence to the amount spent based on ranking/ camscore/ country of origin/ studio model etc., because to do so feels disrespectful, the same beauty deserves the same appreciation in my view.
6. I do not spend in any way that a model can rely on me as a regular. As much as I may like the idea/ feeling of it, ethically it does not fit well for me. Independence ethic.
7. I do not spend to encourage non-members to join. I don't find it wrong in spending to encourage other members to spend though.

 

[JubalCobb]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

7. I do not spend to encourage non-members to join. I don't find it wrong in spending to encourage other members to spend though.

How could your spending encourage non-members to join?
by buy advertising?
or saying you'll tip 1000 for every basic who converts to a full member (through your affiliate link so its easier to track?

Neither of those seem likely so I guess I'm missing something.
At first I though you meant, tipping to encourage other people to tip. (ie. tip sound reminds the users that tips are allowed. and they wont be the only one doing it. Or even tip matching). But you say you dont find it wrong to encourage other members to spend.

So I'm confused by that point. could you expand?
thanks

 

[Ambers Troll]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

7. I do not spend to encourage non-members to join. I don't find it wrong in spending to encourage other members to spend though.

How could your spending encourage non-members to join?
by buy advertising?
or saying you'll tip 1000 for every basic who converts to a full member (through your affiliate link so its easier to track?

Neither of those seem likely so I guess I'm missing something.
At first I though you meant, tipping to encourage other people to tip. (ie. tip sound reminds the users that tips are allowed. and they wont be the only one doing it. Or even tip matching). But you say you dont find it wrong to encourage other members to spend.

So I'm confused by that point. could you expand?
thanks

Was simply talking of paying for non-member attention, as you can imagine this is easily done, and in a variety of ways. I also disapprove of taking BAF (bring a friend) credit.

Having said that ban a basic game is tempting, have had fun with it , and in some ways is non-member attention that might be seen as encouraging membership. But might hate myself in the morning for enjoying it

 

[tubecamgirl]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Just one note here. I am the director of a cam site and I often get to know horror stories from studio models about studio issues, including studio delaying payments (excuse being site did not paid studio for example, which further upsets us as blames site unfairly), asking to work lots of hours and so on. So the question "is it ethical to work with studios" it is valid for sites, not only for customers. However the question should be about "what studios", not "the studios". In fact, not all the studios (owners of studios) are the same, their conditions it varies a lot. Some studios are so nice and helpful that often the models first quit studio thinking they'll do that much better at home, then figure they earn less and have to fix or pay lots of stuff themselves, then return back to studio and keep there years, I mean she choice studio over home model having tried both, should be safe to work with this studio.
Also depends by the country, studios it can be very bad in the philippines (models live there 24/7 and can't go out at any time), that's one of the reasons mfc kicked out most filipina and we also work with very few, that we know (as far as we know) they are not exploited like this. Cam site guys are called bad pimps anyway but the average person, as well as cam girls are called whores by the average person, still between us we do know there's some ethics there, no matter the average person believes it or not.

 

[KatVonnegut]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

MFC is like Etsy for boobs

Best way to refer to it ever.
:lol:

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

There's been some discussion in this thread of "tip matching." Could someone please define it for me? Because I've come across a practice that seems to resemble tip matching, but which I feel is actually very negative and harmful.

 

[JimsX]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

There's been some discussion in this thread of "tip matching." Could someone please define it for me? Because I've come across a practice that seems to resemble tip matching, but which I feel is actually very negative and harmful.

It's simply when one member will tell the room that he will match anything others tip. You tip 50, he tips 50. Happens fairly often when a countdown is going slowly and one member has the cash and likes the model enough.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Usually a member may want to tip, but doesn't want to be the only tipper.The member may say something like I'll tip 50 towards the countdown, if another tips 50. That's really all it is. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

There's been some discussion in this thread of "tip matching." Could someone please define it for me? Because I've come across a practice that seems to resemble tip matching, but which I feel is actually very negative and harmful.

It's simply when one member will tell the room that he will match anything others tip. You tip 50, he tips 50. Happens fairly often when a countdown is going slowly and one member has the cash and likes the model enough.

Thank you, this brings out four important points: 1) the person has the cash, 2) he announces it in advance, 3) he matches *any* tip, and 4) he's *matching* the tips. So the practice I've seen actually isn't tip matching, but something else.

In the practice I've seen: 1) the person has the cash, 2) doesn't announce what he's going to do in advance, 3) doesn't match *every* tip, but only the largest ones, 4) instead of matching the tips exactly, he'll usually tip one token less, and 5) once the other person has exhausted their tokens, he'll then tip an additional 100 or 200 tokens. This person claims that what he's doing is "tip matching" that helps the model, but what it really feels like is a douchebag move that keeps him in the center of attention and ensures that no one else ever tips more than he does.

Opinions?

 

[ACFFAN69]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

There's been some discussion in this thread of "tip matching." Could someone please define it for me? Because I've come across a practice that seems to resemble tip matching, but which I feel is actually very negative and harmful.

It's simply when one member will tell the room that he will match anything others tip. You tip 50, he tips 50. Happens fairly often when a countdown is going slowly and one member has the cash and likes the model enough.

Thank you, this brings out four important points: 1) the person has the cash, 2) he announces it in advance, 3) he matches *any* tip, and 4) he's *matching* the tips. So the practice I've seen actually isn't tip matching, but something else.

In the practice I've seen: 1) the person has the cash, 2) doesn't announce what he's going to do in advance, 3) doesn't match *every* tip, but only the largest ones, 4) instead of matching the tips exactly, he'll usually tip one token less, and 5) once the other person has exhausted their tokens, he'll then tip an additional 100 or 200 tokens. This person claims that what he's doing is "tip matching" that helps the model, but what it really feels like is a douchebag move that keeps him in the center of attention and ensures that no one else ever tips more than he does.

Opinions?

I've had that happen a few times. I think without knowing the person, it is reaching to come to such a negative conclusion with such little evidence.
I always treat it like a game, and we'll do a little back and forth and I'll intentionally lower the tip on my last tip, or "let him win" then make a lighthearded comment on how I can't compete with him.

It's really a good thing. I actually always enjoy it, because it means the model is getting rewarded on someone else's dime, meaning she will stick around longer and be happier, while also allowing me to save tokens so I can stay around longer as well! Everyone's a winner!!!!11!1!!

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I've had that happen a few times. I think without knowing the person, it is reaching to come to such a negative conclusion with such little evidence.
I always treat it like a game, and we'll do a little back and forth and I'll intentionally lower the tip on my last tip, or "let him win" then make a lighthearded comment on how I can't compete with him.

That's what this person says. He claims he's letting the other guy win, but he doesn't, because he *always* throws in that extra tip at the end. To me, it sounds like what you're saying is that you *don't* make that extra tip and actually let the other guy win once in a while.

 

[Sevrin]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

That's what this person says. He claims he's letting the other guy win, but he doesn't, because he *always* throws in that extra tip at the end. To me, it sounds like what you're saying is that you *don't* make that extra tip and actually let the other guy win once in a while.

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

That's what this person says. He claims he's letting the other guy win, but he doesn't, because he *always* throws in that extra tip at the end. To me, it sounds like what you're saying is that you *don't* make that extra tip and actually let the other guy win once in a while.

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. But thanks for proving the old adage about making assumptions.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

That's what this person says. He claims he's letting the other guy win, but he doesn't, because he *always* throws in that extra tip at the end. To me, it sounds like what you're saying is that you *don't* make that extra tip and actually let the other guy win once in a while.

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. But thanks for proving the old adage about making assumptions.

That may not be what you are saying, but it IS what you are doing.

I fail to see the issue with what the other guy is doing. I don't cam on MFC, but I do have a premium account and perv semi-frequently. I would have no problem if I saw someone doing that in the room of a model I was watching, for many reasons:
- She's getting more money in less time
- It's not my money, why should I care how it's spent
- Her countdowns are happening sooner and with less stress
- It's not my money, why should I care how it's spent
- There's less stress on other viewers to help out
- It's not my money, why should I care how it's spent
- There's a possibility that more people will join in with the tipping, because it'll feel like their tip is making a difference and/or because it can be a fun game to play
- It's not my money, why should I care how it's spent
- This is likely to boost the model's camscore/Miss MFC rank
And Finally,
- It's not my money, why should I care how it's spent

If this guy's behavior is making you THAT uncomfortable, though.... Leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in a room you're not enjoying, browse until you find a model/room combination that feels welcoming to you.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Either way, generally the tippers who do that aren't so much trying to be center of attention as trying to make the countdown get done, without feeling like they're buying a round of free shows for every other member. They may say "Hey I'll tip xyz amount if someone else tips xyz amount first", but normally they don't care how much the other guy is tipping (they just normally want it to be a certain amount so it doesn't put them over budget, and often they'll tip smaller amounts too if those smaller tips are dropped). When I worked on MFC, I actually used to encourage tip matching. One thing you'll see frequently is a camgirl who has a topic and only a few contributors tip toward the topic. Normally, if you don't look out, one member tips the most towards the topic and everyone else in public chat gets a free/close to free show. It generally works well, and especially on a site where you're running against time/camscore like MFC and you need to try to earn those tokens faster.

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. But thanks for proving the old adage about making assumptions.

That may not be what you are saying, but it IS what you are doing.

I fail to see the issue with what the other guy is doing. I don't cam on MFC, but I do have a premium account and perv semi-frequently. I would have no problem if I saw someone doing that in the room of a model I was watching, for many reasons:
- She's getting more money in less time
- Her countdowns are happening sooner and with less stress
- There's less stress on other viewers to help out
- There's a possibility that more people will join in with the tipping, because it'll feel like their tip is making a difference and/or because it can be a fun game to play
- This is likely to boost the model's camscore/Miss MFC rank

If this guy's behavior is making you THAT uncomfortable, though.... Leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in a room you're not enjoying, browse until you find a model/room combination that feels welcoming to you.

Okay, in no particular order: This model's camscore is actually pretty "meh." And if you factor in how pretty she is, and how long she's been on MFC, then her camscore is actually pretty piss poor. As for "less stress on other viewers to help out," think about what you're saying for a moment. From my observations, this girl often struggles to get tips, and I have to wonder if it's because all of her regulars know that this one particular person can and will take care of most of the tipping pretty much every single night. So it actually seems to be a disincentive for others to tip. Her countdowns often take a long time, and people never join in when this is happening. My feeling, speaking as someone who has both been involved with the tipping and also observed it happening to others, is that it isn't fun at all, because it feels as if this other person is constantly trying to upstage anyone else who tips large. And judging by how rarely these people tend to return, I would say I'm not the only one who feels that way. So all things considered, she's actually getting less money.

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Either way, generally the tippers who do that aren't so much trying to be center of attention as trying to make the countdown get done, without feeling like they're buying a round of free shows for every other member. They may say "Hey I'll tip xyz amount if someone else tips xyz amount first", but normally they don't care how much the other guy is tipping (they just normally want it to be a certain amount so it doesn't put them over budget, and often they'll tip smaller amounts too if those smaller tips are dropped). When I worked on MFC, I actually used to encourage tip matching. One thing you'll see frequently is a camgirl who has a topic and only a few contributors tip toward the topic. Normally, if you don't look out, one member tips the most towards the topic and everyone else in public chat gets a free/close to free show. It generally works well, and especially on a site where you're running against time/camscore like MFC and you need to try to earn those tokens faster.

I understand what you're saying, but the situation I'm referring to doesn't match what you're describing. First of all, because this person never announces that he is "tip matching." Also, because he never matches smaller tips, or even medium sized tips, so I doubt he cares much about the countdowns. In fact, the last time I saw this happen, one new member in the room finished a count with a 1,000 token tip when there was just 300 left in the count. And that immediately set off a tip war, where the person I'm referring to basically kept matching tips until the other person gave up; whereas, on many other occasions, I've seen this model go offline with just a few hundred tokens left on the count and this person never did anything to help her out, and certainly never offered to "match tips."

 

[SaffronBurke]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. But thanks for proving the old adage about making assumptions.

That may not be what you are saying, but it IS what you are doing.

I fail to see the issue with what the other guy is doing. I don't cam on MFC, but I do have a premium account and perv semi-frequently. I would have no problem if I saw someone doing that in the room of a model I was watching, for many reasons:
- She's getting more money in less time
- Her countdowns are happening sooner and with less stress
- There's less stress on other viewers to help out
- There's a possibility that more people will join in with the tipping, because it'll feel like their tip is making a difference and/or because it can be a fun game to play
- This is likely to boost the model's camscore/Miss MFC rank

If this guy's behavior is making you THAT uncomfortable, though.... Leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in a room you're not enjoying, browse until you find a model/room combination that feels welcoming to you.

Okay, in no particular order: This model's camscore is actually pretty "meh." And if you factor in how pretty she is, and how long she's been on MFC, then her camscore is actually pretty piss poor. As for "less stress on other viewers to help out," think about what you're saying for a moment. From my observations, this girl often struggles to get tips, and I have to wonder if it's because all of her regulars know that this one particular person can and will take care of most of the tipping pretty much every single night. So it actually seems to be a disincentive for others to tip. Her countdowns often take a long time, and people never join in when this is happening. My feeling, speaking as someone who has both been involved with the tipping and also observed it happening to others, is that it isn't fun at all, because it feels as if this other person is constantly trying to upstage anyone else who tips large. And judging by how rarely these people tend to return, I would say I'm not the only one who feels that way. So all things considered, she's actually getting less money.

The entire point of my post was that you shouldn't be worrying about how someone else is spending their money, in case you didn't pick that up.

There's a wonderful, very simple solution to this whole situation.

Stop going to that room. If the way that someone else is behaving and spending their own money is bothering you, don't hang out there.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

I understand what you're saying, but the situation I'm referring to doesn't match what you're describing. First of all, because this person never announces that he is "tip matching." Also, because he never matches smaller tips, or even medium sized tips, so I doubt he cares much about the countdowns. In fact, the last time I saw this happen, one new member in the room finished a count with a 1,000 token tip when there was just 300 left in the count. And that immediately set off a tip war, where the person I'm referring to basically kept matching tips until the other person gave up; whereas, on many other occasions, I've seen this model go offline with just a few hundred tokens left on the count and this person never did anything to help her out, and certainly never offered to "match tips."

Ah ok, I didn't see any amounts, if you did mention any. I was imagining a guy saying he'd tip increments of 50 tokens or something. I hate to sound mean to her, but it sounds like she needs to have a talk with the guy about how her room can be run, or maybe just work out a deal with him where he can tip, and if the countdown doesn't happen she'll do a skype or video for him. As to the small amount left in the topic and her leaving...I've done it before, but I've always made it up to the tippers. I'd give out a video or I'd sometimes do a rollover of the topic for next time. Really she seems to just need to take charge if she wants to improve her score and camshows.

I would send her a message about it, and if she doesn't change then yeah just leave. No point in sticking around if it's only going to bug you.

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

The entire point of my post was that you shouldn't be worrying about how someone else is spending their money, in case you didn't pick that up.

There's a wonderful, very simple solution to this whole situation.

Stop going to that room. If the way that someone else is behaving and spending their own money is bothering you, don't hang out there.

And since you clearly didn't pick this up the first time I said it, I'm not worrying or complaining about how someone else spends their money. That's *your* interpretation, which takes me right back to my original comment about making assumptions.

This is a forum, correct? And forums are for discussions, correct? So the question I presented was simply this: I've observed some odd behavior. I've heard of something called "tip matching". I want to know if this odd behavior fits the description of tip matching. And based upon the few helpful responses I've received, I've determined that it isn't, in fact, tip matching. That should have been the end of the discussion.

But instead I've received "helpful responses" along the lines of, well, if you don't like the behavior, stop visiting the room. The only thing is though, I don't recall asking for anyone's opinion on whether I should stop visiting that particular room or not. But if that's the attitude certain people are going to take, I could just as easily respond that if you're going to get that upset or offended by the issues that someone else chooses to discuss on a forum, you're not going to have a good time. And I could also add, that if my behavior bothers you that much, you are perfectly free to leave the thread, or at the very least, to stop reading and responding to my posts.

See what I did there?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

See what I did there?

Yep. Turned into an asshat.

 

[ACFFAN69]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

(...)
In the practice I've seen: 1) the person has the cash, 2) doesn't announce what he's going to do in advance, 3) doesn't match *every* tip, but only the largest ones, 4) instead of matching the tips exactly, he'll usually tip one token less, and 5) once the other person has exhausted their tokens, he'll then tip an additional 100 or 200 tokens. This person claims that what he's doing is "tip matching" that helps the model, but what it really feels like is a douchebag move that keeps him in the center of attention and ensures that no one else ever tips more than he does.

Opinions?

(...)
I want to know if this odd behavior fits the description of tip matching. And based upon the few helpful responses I've received, I've determined that it isn't, in fact, tip matching. That should have been the end of the discussion.

But instead I've received "helpful responses" along the lines of, well, if you don't like the behavior, stop visiting the room. The only thing is though, I don't recall asking for anyone's opinion on whether I should stop visiting that particular room or not.
(...)

But you did ask for opinions on people who match tips from your experience. Our opinion was: If it bothered us, we would leave the room. :roll:
I'm noticing a trend of negativity in your posts to be honest. We aren't your enemy! I hazard to guess neither is this "tip match'er", nor the models you visit who seem to turn sour. :twocents-02cents:

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Let me get this straight: You're complaining about someone else tipping a model? If you're troubled by what other members do with their money, you're gonna have a bad time.

Nope, that's not what I was saying at all. But thanks for proving the old adage about making assumptions.

That may not be what you are saying, but it IS what you are doing.

I fail to see the issue with what the other guy is doing. I don't cam on MFC, but I do have a premium account and perv semi-frequently. I would have no problem if I saw someone doing that in the room of a model I was watching, for many reasons:
- She's getting more money in less time
- Her countdowns are happening sooner and with less stress
- There's less stress on other viewers to help out
- There's a possibility that more people will join in with the tipping, because it'll feel like their tip is making a difference and/or because it can be a fun game to play
- This is likely to boost the model's camscore/Miss MFC rank

If this guy's behavior is making you THAT uncomfortable, though.... Leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in a room you're not enjoying, browse until you find a model/room combination that feels welcoming to you.

Okay, in no particular order: This model's camscore is actually pretty "meh." And if you factor in how pretty she is, and how long she's been on MFC, then her camscore is actually pretty piss poor. As for "less stress on other viewers to help out," think about what you're saying for a moment. From my observations, this girl often struggles to get tips, and I have to wonder if it's because all of her regulars know that this one particular person can and will take care of most of the tipping pretty much every single night. So it actually seems to be a disincentive for others to tip. Her countdowns often take a long time, and people never join in when this is happening. My feeling, speaking as someone who has both been involved with the tipping and also observed it happening to others, is that it isn't fun at all, because it feels as if this other person is constantly trying to upstage anyone else who tips large. And judging by how rarely these people tend to return, I would say I'm not the only one who feels that way. So all things considered, she's actually getting less money.

Saffron pretty much nailed it to the wall with railroad spikes. All cam models struggle to get tips at times. The top 5-10 tippers generally account for 50-80% of most girls income. Increasingly MFC has become a site of whale tippers in most room with 1-3 guys tipping more than 1/2 of a countdown.

Honestly, I never felt anything but happy to have a whale in the room. If I'm not a regular in the room than the whale will make the countdown go faster. If I'm a regular and its me, and 5 other guys tipping (very typical) and the countdown is only 1/2 way done. Then I am debating damn why should I buy more tokens, WTF is wrong with the other 200 guys in the room why are they not tipping. If Mr whale walks in and finish the countdown, I am happy camper, a model whom I like has made her goal, I get to see a show, and I didn't have to spend any more money, that iswin/win/win in my book.. If he is doing any form of tip matching he is hero in my book, encouraging others to tip.

As other have said, if it bother you leave. Or even better ask MFC to raise your token limit, buy as much tokens as they'll let you and when the girl puts up a countdown, finish it off. Repeat until the show is over, and you'll be the hero. And you can bask in the appreciation of all the members who are grateful for you providing them with free entertainment. :-x

The problem with MFC isn't that a few tip too much it is that so few tip anything.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

Srs bsns :?

 

[Azhrarn]

Re: How can I use a camsite in the most ethical way possible

That may not be what you are saying, but it IS what you are doing.

I fail to see the issue with what the other guy is doing. I don't cam on MFC, but I do have a premium account and perv semi-frequently. I would have no problem if I saw someone doing that in the room of a model I was watching, for many reasons:
- She's getting more money in less time
- Her countdowns are happening sooner and with less stress
- There's less stress on other viewers to help out
- There's a possibility that more people will join in with the tipping, because it'll feel like their tip is making a difference and/or because it can be a fun game to play
- This is likely to boost the model's camscore/Miss MFC rank

If this guy's behavior is making you THAT uncomfortable, though.... Leave. Nobody is forcing you to stay in a room you're not enjoying, browse until you find a model/room combination that feels welcoming to you.

Okay, in no particular order: This model's camscore is actually pretty "meh." And if you factor in how pretty she is, and how long she's been on MFC, then her camscore is actually pretty piss poor. As for "less stress on other viewers to help out," think about what you're saying for a moment. From my observations, this girl often struggles to get tips, and I have to wonder if it's because all of her regulars know that this one particular person can and will take care of most of the tipping pretty much every single night. So it actually seems to be a disincentive for others to tip. Her countdowns often take a long time, and people never join in when this is happening. My feeling, speaking as someone who has both been involved with the tipping and also observed it happening to others, is that it isn't fun at all, because it feels as if this other person is constantly trying to upstage anyone else who tips large. And judging by how rarely these people tend to return, I would say I'm not the only one who feels that way. So all things considered, she's actually getting less money.

Saffron pretty much nailed it to the wall with railroad spikes. All cam models struggle to get tips at times. The top 5-10 tippers generally account for 50-80% of most girls income. Increasingly MFC has become a site of whale tippers in most room with 1-3 guys tipping more than 1/2 of a countdown.

Honestly, I never felt anything but happy to have a whale in the room. If I'm not a regular in the room than the whale will make the countdown go faster. If I'm a regular and its me, and 5 other guys tipping (very typical) and the countdown is only 1/2 way done. Then I am debating damn why should I buy more tokens, WTF is wrong with the other 200 guys in the room why are they not tipping. If Mr whale walks in and finish the countdown, I am happy camper, a model whom I like has made her goal, I get to see a show, and I didn't have to spend any more money, that iswin/win/win in my book.. If he is doing any form of tip matching he is hero in my book, encouraging others to tip.

As other have said, if it bother you leave. Or even better ask MFC to raise your token limit, buy as much tokens as they'll let you and when the girl puts up a countdown, finish it off. Repeat until the show is over, and you'll be the hero. And you can bask in the appreciation of all the members who are grateful for you providing them with free entertainment. :-x

The problem with MFC isn't that a few tip too much it is that so few tip anything.

I’m sort of getting sick of this whole “tip matching” discussion because I’m tired of repeating ad nauseam that what I’m referring to isn't tip matching. You just said it yourself, and so have many others, “tip matching” is supposed to encourage other people to tip, so obviously if someone is consistently having the opposite effect, it’s not tip matching. I can also add that I’ve been in rooms where tip matching was going on, without understanding what it was, and the mood of the room was completely different. People were happy, lots of guys were participating, and if that isn’t plain enough, then I don’t know what language to use because English clearly isn’t working.

But the point you make about a minority of tippers providing the majority of the tips again makes me question the emphasis on public shows. If only a handful of guys are doing the majority of the tipping in a room, then why not do a group show for them after the teasing and preliminaries are out of the way? I’ve seen situations where a cam girl is in a room with hundreds of people, and no one is tipping. And I’ve also seen situations where the room has less than a hundred people, but once the show starts, suddenly people start pouring in, and it’s not just basics and freeloaders. Often I’m surprised by the fact that many of the people are semi-regulars or even regulars in the room.