Horrors of Stalinist concentration camps

[Gen]

So, this was of course worse than Hitler and Germany but history made sure you only focused on Hitler.
Who needed to do that and why?
While you're at it. Have you ever actually considered the 6 million Jews killed story? Even if they weren't all Jews,that number is impossible to accomplish in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had..but people just believe it at face value.
Most everything you think you know about the world is revisionism, propaganda and lies.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

He is here to screw threads up. Of that I am convinced.

Whether or not he is intelligent enough to realize it is a debate for another day.

 

[Cal_blue]

How childish are you people? It's called another viewpoint. It's called not everyone thinks like you. Can anyone think outside their tiny minded box about the world around them?

 

[Cal_blue]

He is here to screw threads up. Of that I am convinced.

Whether or not he is intelligent enough to realize it is a debate for another day.

He is here to screw threads up. Of that I am convinced.

Whether or not he is intelligent enough to realize it is a debate for another day.

Lol you fail to understand the 2 may actually be related. Did you not read where I said revisionism? Why make up stories about 6 million dead while ignoring the other tragedy?
I'm not here to screw anything up. I'm positively trying to get you to not be so shallow and open up your thought process.

 

[EspiKvlt]

How childish are you people? It's called another viewpoint. It's called not everyone thinks like you. Can anyone think outside their tiny minded box about the world around them?

You don't even realize how ironic this is, do you?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

AMBERCUTIE!!!!!

 

[Cal_blue]

Main reason I posted that was not an example of his empathy, but mine from afar. Can I put myself in his shoes?

Subjected to the social tensions, the hatred and anger, the fear, the propaganda...I wonder, what would I have done? Swung my machete when it was expected of me? Turned on those closest to me and accepted my place with the victims? It's a real headfuck alright.

I have considered that part. And I consider it silly quibbling over details. White supremacists I knew in the past were quite certain it meant something.

Suppose we prove beyond a shadow of doubt only 1 million Jews died in the Holocaust (not likely, this is just an example). What am I supposed to say? "whew, that's a relief!"?

You are posting like an idiot @Cal_blue.

You are thinkjng.like an idiot. If they are lying about the total ,who's doing the lying and why? The Germans or the Jews ?
It means the Holocaust didn't actually go down as every history book told you.
I'm not remotely saying anything about Hitler or people dying is good. I'm not lessening any tragedy.
I'm questioning the ultimate purpose and reality of all these factors.

 

[Cal_blue]

Holocaust denial. That's just what this thread needs.

Who said anything about denial?
I didn't say people didn't die or weren't killed.
What about the denial of Stalin/Russia in the history books?
That's not worse?

 

[EspiKvlt]

What about the denial of Stalin/Russia in the history books?
That's not worse?

Denial of any genocide is equally terrible.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

You are thinkjng.like an idiot. If they are lying about the total ,who's doing the lying and why? The Germans or the Jews ?
It means the Holocaust didn't actually go down as every history book told you.
I'm not remotely saying anything about Hitler or people dying is good. I'm not lessening any tragedy.
I'm questioning the ultimate purpose and reality of all these factors.

 

[Cal_blue]

Denial of any genocide is equally terrible.

Denial of wanting to know the actual truth about anything and everything is worse.

 

[zippypinhead]

Congratulations, @Cal_blue, you're the first person in years to make it onto my ignore list.

 

[eyeteach]

Denial of wanting to know the actual truth about anything and everything is worse.

You are obviously much more intelligent and learned than I, can you please expound more on this "in only four years theory."

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Really? Maybe its because I was in school during the tail end of the Cold War, but the brutality of Soviet punishment, especially during Stalin's despotism, was taught to the point of oversaturation in social studies when I was a kid. I still associate Siberia with the same sort of go-there-and-don't-come-back, openly-secret-horrors that Guantanamo is associated with today. Only worse, because Commies.

The amount of things they leave out of history lessons these days is horrendous.

I graduated high school in 2007. I loved history class and paid very good attention, so my gaps in knowledge are due to gaps in material, not inattention. When I left school, here's what I knew about modern (post-1900) history:

*WWI: Germany did something bad. The British told them no. Fighting happened, we helped the British.
*1920's: WOMEN CAN VOTE! Also, prohibition and flappers and speakeasies. BUT MOSTLY VOTING.
*1930's: Shitfuck Great Depression. Droughts and famine and everybody was poor. Hoover sucked, Roosevelt rocked. Also Hitler started doing shit.
*1940's: WWII. That's literally all that happened in the 40's despite it ending in 45. Nazis and the holocaust. GERMANS ARE BAD, KAY. Japan dropped normal bombs on our military base, so we nuked their civilians because 'MURICA. We also rounded up Japanese-Americans into internment camps, but it's OK because THE GERMAN CAMPS WERE WORSE and we only locked people up, we didn't kill and experiment on them. Also, Russia was there, but they're not important, because NAZIS.
*1950's - People made lots of babies. Rock & Roll happened. Also, Russia was there, some thing called Sputnik, but THE AMERICAN DREAM, LIFE WAS PERFECT.
*1960's: We went to the moon, bitches! Civil Rights Movement, MLK and JFK were shot, people were pissed about the Vietnam War. Russia was there - something about a space race? - but they weren't that important, because hippies, drugs, war protests.
*1970's - Watergate. That happened. It was a thing.
*1980's - The Berlin Wall came down! We're not going to bother teaching you much of anything about the significance of the wall or why it being taken down was such a big deal, but it happened.
*1990's - I mean, you lived it, you remember what happened, we're not going to remind you.


No Child Left Behind, folks. No Child Left Behind. I've literally learned more history from watching TV than I did in school. American History and World History was mainly focused on WWII, America's involvement, and ermagahd Nazis. And this was at a "good school" with "good test scores", a school that's so supposedly good that people are flooding to that town so that their kids can go to that school, and the town can't keep up with the expansion.

/derailment, yeah, Stalin was a POS.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

The amount of things they leave out of history lessons these days is horrendous.

I graduated high school in 2007. I loved history class and paid very good attention, so my gaps in knowledge are due to gaps in material, not inattention. When I left school, here's what I knew about modern (post-1900) history:

*WWI: Germany did something bad. The British told them no. Fighting happened, we helped the British.
*1920's: WOMEN CAN VOTE! Also, prohibition and flappers and speakeasies. BUT MOSTLY VOTING.
*1930's: Shitfuck Great Depression. Droughts and famine and everybody was poor. Hoover sucked, Roosevelt rocked. Also Hitler started doing shit.
*1940's: WWII. That's literally all that happened in the 40's despite it ending in 45. Nazis and the holocaust. GERMANS ARE BAD, KAY. Japan dropped normal bombs on our military base, so we nuked their civilians because 'MURICA. We also rounded up Japanese-Americans into internment camps, but it's OK because THE GERMAN CAMPS WERE WORSE and we only locked people up, we didn't kill and experiment on them. Also, Russia was there, but they're not important, because NAZIS.
*1950's - People made lots of babies. Rock & Roll happened. Also, Russia was there, some thing called Sputnik, but THE AMERICAN DREAM, LIFE WAS PERFECT.
*1960's: We went to the moon, bitches! Civil Rights Movement, MLK and JFK were shot, people were pissed about the Vietnam War. Russia was there - something about a space race? - but they weren't that important, because hippies, drugs, war protests.
*1970's - Watergate. That happened. It was a thing.
*1980's - The Berlin Wall came down! We're not going to bother teaching you much of anything about the significance of the wall or why it being taken down was such a big deal, but it happened.
*1990's - I mean, you lived it, you remember what happened, we're not going to remind you.


No Child Left Behind, folks. No Child Left Behind. I've literally learned more history from watching TV than I did in school. American History and World History was mainly focused on WWII, America's involvement, and ermagahd Nazis. And this was at a "good school" with "good test scores", a school that's so supposedly good that people are flooding to that town so that their kids can go to that school, and the town can't keep up with the expansion.

/derailment, yeah, Stalin was a POS.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Cossacks_after_World_War_II#Lienz

Left out of the Stalin is a monster story (at least in my education).

I guess if numbers and statistics are how justice are going to be determined, 2500 people being served up to him isn't a lot when you consider 50-80(?) million casualties total.

 

[Cal_blue]

You are obviously much more intelligent and learned than I, can you please expound more on this "in only four years theory."

Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Oh sheesh, I have not said I was more intelligent then you or anyone.
What's hard to understand? You can't kill 6 million in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had, no matter how hard you try to crunch the number.
That aside...America, England and France were allies with Russia. They had to cover up what Russia did to keep people focused on hating Germany.
How could this be? Oh how could you not know? You are half way across the world and believe what your trusted govt tells you.its pretty simple.
Propaganda and revisionist history are how the world is run.

I don't claim to know more than you or anyone. I just give a different viewpoint and people choose to put emotion to it and pick sides.
I could be wrong about anything and everything.im not obligated to not be able to change my mind..but apparently not thinking like everyone else is taboo and confusing to a majority.
Interesting ,coming from a site that promotes freedom of expression ,doing something others frown upon.

 

[eyeteach]

Oh sheesh, I have not said I was more intelligent then you or anyone.
What's hard to understand? You can't kill 6 million in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had, no matter how hard you try to crunch the number.
That aside...America, England and France were allies with Russia. They had to cover up what Russia did to keep people focused on hating Germany.
How could this be? Oh how could you not know? You are half way across the world and believe what your trusted govt tells you.its pretty simple.
Propaganda and revisionist history are how the world is run.

I don't claim to know more than you or anyone. I just give a different viewpoint and people choose to put emotion to it and pick sides.
I could be wrong about anything and everything.im not obligated to not be able to change my mind..but apparently not thinking like everyone else is taboo and confusing to a majority.
Interesting ,coming from a site that promotes freedom of expression ,doing something others frown upon.

So Germany's concentration camps existed for only four years? This is what I'd like clarification on.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

So, this was of course worse than Hitler and Germany but history made sure you only focused on Hitler.
Who needed to do that and why?
While you're at it. Have you ever actually considered the 6 million Jews killed story? Even if they weren't all Jews,that number is impossible to accomplish in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had..but people just believe it at face value.
Most everything you think you know about the world is revisionism, propaganda and lies.

I've never used the facepalm rating, cause I think they are stupid but if any post would qualify yours would.

 

[Cal_blue]

I've never used the facepalm rating, cause I think they are stupid but if any post would qualify yours would.

Based on Nothing more than a belief you have. You don't know,understand or believe what I said,so what? Where does that prove it to be stupid or untrue?
Lol at mocking me for asking valid questions about what you think you know and choose to believe.

 

[Cal_blue]

So Germany's concentration camps existed for only four years? This is what I'd like clarification on.

How long makes no difference.its still an impossible number to accomplish in the story they told you to believe.
People believe too many things but don't actually KNOW anything.

 

[EspiKvlt]

How long makes no difference.its still an impossible number to accomplish in the story they told you to believe.
People believe too many things but don't actually KNOW anything.

Your entire argument hinges on "four years," so yeah, it makes a difference. It's the entire crux of your argument.

Everything you say is so ironic, I can't even.

 

[eyeteach]

How long makes no difference.its still an impossible number to accomplish in the story they told you to believe.
People believe too many things but don't actually KNOW anything.

Let me try this again. So Kristallnacht in 1938, where an estimated 30,000 German Jews were ultimately incarcerated in concentration camps BEFORE Nazi Germany invaded Poland in '39, didn't actually happen. Or that when Nazi Germany did invade Poland and rounded up Jews, gypsies, and other "undesirables" into concentration camps where they died didn't actually happen either? Man, I wish I knew these undebatable truths long before I majored in History in college; they truly would have made all that time researching, attending classes, writing papers, and taking all those tests much more bearable.

To think I was flat out lied to all that time...and stupid me fell for it.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Based on Nothing more than a belief you have. You don't know,understand or believe what I said,so what? Where does that prove it to be stupid or untrue?
Lol at mocking me for asking valid questions about what you think you know and choose to believe.

I'm questioning your math skills. The Germans had roughly 1 million SS soldiers. The first mass execution of Jews started in Sept of 39 after the invasion of Poland. So if each SS soldier shot one Jew each year that's 6 million Jews. So believing that it is so immense task to kill 6 million is simply stupid. But of course the Germans have a long reputation for being a high efficient society and managed to industrialize mass killing vastly increasing the throughput of murders.

I've been to Mauthausen which was a death through workcamp. and also the Killing Fields in Cambodia, where Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge killed about ~1.8 million 1/2 through execution between 1975-79. The Killing field was strictly a retail process, with lots of the executions being done with machete to save on bullets. The Germans were just a hell of lot more organized about killing people than the Cambodians.

But just doing some gruesome math. If 7 million Cambodia killed 900,000 Cambodia with no automation over 4 years. Please explain exactly why it would be challenge for 70 million Germans to kill 6 million
Jews over 5.5 years?

 

[Guy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Cossacks_after_World_War_II#Lienz

Left out of the Stalin is a monster story (at least in my education).

I guess if numbers and statistics are how justice are going to be determined, 2500 people being served up to him isn't a lot when you consider 50-80(?) million casualties total.

One of the most notorious Soviet war crimes was the Kaytn massacre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

 

[Cal_blue]

I'm questioning your math skills. The Germans had roughly 1 million SS soldiers. The first mass execution of Jews started in Sept of 39 after the invasion of Poland. So if each SS soldier shot one Jew each year that's 6 million Jews. So believing that it is so immense task to kill 6 million is simply stupid. But of course the Germans have a long reputation for being a high efficient society and managed to industrialize mass killing vastly increasing the throughput of murders.

I've been to Mauthausen which was a death through workcamp. and also the Killing Fields in Cambodia, where Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge killed about ~1.8 million 1/2 through execution between 1975-79. The Killing field was strictly a retail process, with lots of the executions being done with machete to save on bullets. The Germans were just a hell of lot more organized about killing people than the Cambodians.

But just doing some gruesome math. If 7 million Cambodia killed 900,000 Cambodia with no automation over 4 years. Please explain exactly why it would be challenge for 70 million Germans to kill 6 million
Jews over 5.5 years?

Again, all you are doing is quoting main stream media and propaganda with no evidence or fact that what you believe is true. 70 million people may have died in world War 2 but that doesn't in any way prove 6 million jews died in the camps wich was their claim. How many that died in the battle fields is irrelevant and still an exaggerated number.
This isn't about anything but the lies of the numbers in the camps.
Good luck trying to assume every ss soldier killed one jew apiece let alone anyone else.
You went somewhere after the fact and believed how it was described to you through someone else or some other material. Sorry,that doesn't prove it real or true.
It still pales in comparison to Russia which no one seems to know about.
See that? You are given a situation where you aren't told anything and another where you are told misleading,fake, numbers you can't prove. ..and your mind just creates the story and bias for it .which causes you to emotionally attack someone else for questioning it.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Again, all you are doing is quoting main stream media and propaganda with no evidence or fact that what you believe is true. 70 million people may have died in world War 2 but that doesn't in any way prove 6 million jews died in the camps wich was their claim. How many that died in the battle fields is irrelevant and still an exaggerated number.
This isn't about anything but the lies of the numbers in the camps.
Good luck trying to assume every ss soldier killed one jew apiece let alone anyone else.
You went somewhere after the fact and believed how it was described to you through someone else or some other material. Sorry,that doesn't prove it real or true.
It still pales in comparison to Russia which no one seems to know about.
See that? You are given a situation where you aren't told anything and another where you are told misleading,fake, numbers you can't prove. ..and your mind just creates the story and bias for it .which causes you to emotionally attack someone else for questioning it.

Here is what you said.
"What's hard to understand? You can't kill 6 million in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had, no matter how hard you try to crunch the number"

I just crunched the numbers. Now show me why it is not possible.

WWII is sort of a passion my so I've literally traveled all the over the world to various battle sites and museum, read hundreds of books, talked to scores of WW II vets, included a couple that actually were present at the liberation of death camps. But the evidence for the holocaust is overwhelming. Starting with basics. In 1940 the census reports showed 9.5 million Jews in Europe. (I have actually seen them in books published in the 70 pre-internet). The 1945 census reports 3.5 million jews in Europe the difference is 6 million. In addition, the Nazi were meticulous record keeper and various people have rolled up the numbers and reached very similar results.

But life is too short to argue with a Holocaust denier.

 

[AudriTwo]

So, this was of course worse than Hitler and Germany but history made sure you only focused on Hitler.
Who needed to do that and why?
While you're at it. Have you ever actually considered the 6 million Jews killed story? Even if they weren't all Jews,that number is impossible to accomplish in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had..but people just believe it at face value.
Most everything you think you know about the world is revisionism, propaganda and lies.

Shocking you are a Holocaust denier.

 

[Cal_blue]

 

[Cal_blue]

Shocking you are a Holocaust denier.

and you are illiterate. I am not denying that evil people killed people. I did not deny Nazi's killed Jews.
I am saying the number and way it was presented to you is a lie.
your remark proves you dont do anything but believe what you are told without looking for the actual truth.
You are just calling me a catch phrase slang you were conditioned to use.
prove to me the reason why it all hapened? prove to me the actual number? you cant do either at all.
you rely on another source with no actual facts or real proof.

where are the mass graves? why havent they been dug up to prove anything?
you have nothing but faith. You have nothing but belief. That is not proof or a fact. You just hope and feel you are right.

 

[AudriTwo]

and you are illiterate. I am not denying that evil people killed people. I did not deny Nazi's killed Jews.
I am saying the number and way it was presented to you is a lie.
your remark proves you dont do anything but believe what you are told without looking for the actual truth.
You are just calling me a catch phrase slang you were conditioned to use.
prove to me the reason why it all hapened? prove to me the actual number? you cant do either at all.
you rely on another source with no actual facts or real proof.

where are the mass graves? why havent they been dug up to prove anything?
you have nothing but faith. You have nothing but belief. That is not proof or a fact. You just hope and feel you are right.

It's a form of Holocaust denying, buddy. Who does it benefit to prove that the number maybe not exact?