Etiquette for Goal Shows

[Smores]

One of my favorite models has an unfortunate habit. She gets well into a difficult goal and at some point decides to take a break. That much is fine. But when she comes back from the break she resets her goals back to the start and never says a word. Given that she does not have tight relationships with viewers she rarely gets called out on it. I think the viewers who are offended by this behavior are probably just leaving silently and this is sabotaging their ability to become high-paying regulars in her room. All of this begs the question what is good "etiquette" for terminating a goal show? And when is it okay to terminate a goal?

As one case, consider when the model is getting close to leaving for the day and she wants to get dressed before the end of shift. In that case I think she should call out to the room clearly "It is near the end of my day and I need to get dressed guys. So I have to end the goal show now." Then she can return to chat, but I think it would be bad etiquette in this case to reset the goal show back to the start and allow new bids to come in. The way my model was doing it she was terminating a large goal where she was already naked and then putting on her clothes and resetting her goal back to "take off shirt" and continuing to receive tips against that new goal. That wiped out nearly 1000 tokens worth of tips toward the complex goal. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I want to hear how others see it.

As a different case, suppose it is in the middle of the show and the model wants to take a long 15 minute break. Should she always restore the goal and tips already contributed to that goal when she returns?

 

[NotYou]

The only real way to terminate a goal in my opinion is when a model has set it high, or simply it just isn't going to be met. If the last tip towards a 1000 token goal was an hour ago, then yeah screw it, reset it but not for the same 1000 goal - reset it to something smaller. Even if that also includes the goal being completely different. I think to just reset the goal silently without saying a word to anyone, is honestly messed up. I know "her room her rules" but there is always a line, especially if those who HAVE contributed towards it are still in the room. If all the tippers have left,then ok fair enough, reset, but still say something... Something as simple as "Well we aint going to reach this goal so I am resetting/changing it"

 

[Lunasha]

I'm not an experienced cammer but, I know I wouldn't feel right about resetting a goal randomly. It happened a couple of times though that I really wouldn't reach it and had to log out.
But it never happened that people really stayed in the room for hours after tipping for the goal and waiting for it to be done so, no one complained either.

Also because of this (the fact that I have a hard time having my goals reached) I'm really careful about doing those kinds of shows. I don't feel comfortable with the idea of promising something I won't deliver.

 

[MollyMidnight]

In her defense, there's a possibility the app she's using has reset the goal. This happens to me all the damn time when I take a break - the app just resets.

If it's doing that though she should keep a note of where it is beforehand and change it when it resets to where it was.

 

[SpookybunzSM]

The only times I would reset goals is if no one seems to be interested and anyone who tipped, left.
If worse comes to worse she could reset it as something smaller, but she really should count the amount received towards the new goal. Especially if the people tipping are hanging out and waiting for the show. Like @MollyMidnight said; the apps are notorious for resetting, but you could adjust the goal.

If I simply HAD to cut a goal off, I would offer anyone who tipped over a certain amount, something like a video or something. But that depends on the model and what they make.

If this was MFC, because of camscore I've had to cut goals off, but again I would offer something in return to people who contributed. Sometimes it wasn't worth the camscore hit to finish the goal.

 

[Smores]

If this was MFC, because of camscore I've had to cut goals off, but again I would offer something in return to people who contributed. Sometimes it wasn't worth the camscore hit to finish the goal.

How does that work on MFC? If you see your camscore going lower you need to just look for a different activity that will raise it?

 

[SpookybunzSM]

How does that work on MFC? If you see your camscore going lower you need to just look for a different activity that will raise it?

MFC's camscore is heavily based on your average income per hour over the last like 30-60 days or something.
Also, your average VS. what other people are averaging as well as some sorcery no one understands.

So if you're sitting there for 30-45 minutes without getting tipped, your score will start to dip.
If you do this for long periods of time, your score will dip drastically and it can be hard to get it back up.
Like a really bad day could hit your score like -100 to -300 points depending on how long you stick it out.
It also affects your placement on the site. Which is why a lot of models on MFC will log off if it's too slow, and a lot of them offer offline deals or pre-counts for something before they log on.
Being tipped without streaming is a great score boost.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I've seen models do different things, and it's all up to them as to how they want to run it. It's up to the members if they want to support it.

If a model resets her goal, I could see it if she takes a long break (couple hours) and comes back with a new goal. 15 minute break, nah. She can put herself as "away", and it should keep her goals in place. At least it does on MFC, unsure of CB or others. I've also seen models do a couple rounds of her goal shows but with different clothing on.

If she gets dressed before end of show, to me that says she's done and then there shouldn't be a goal. Just tips for admiration/gift/etc.

 

[AudriTwo]

on streamate, it is different. our goal shows are called gold shows. which you have a certain amount of time to join into a show. If the model doesn't meet their goal in the set time, you will not be charged. show needs to complete for the amount time the model set for the show. new members who are familiar with other goal set shows on other sites are more hesitant to join in. if you are on streamate and you see a model doing a gold show you are interested, tip in. worse case scenario is if it doesn't happen you keep your $3-$5.

i end up banning people who make it a habit on camping out during majority of my 12-15 min countdown and will only tip if i make starting goal or goal. i am constantly reminding members verbally and through saved text. if a member boldly tells me he waits until more people join in or closer to goal, i call bullshit and remind him that mentality doesn't get shows going. if don't change, they will not permitted to watch any of my gold shows.


if a gold show fails and the model says "i'm going to restart the countdown," don't leave. quicker you make the goal, quicker we can start. it is so discouraging when you are close to goal, reset, and your room clears out, mostly the tippers. if a model restarts, bid what you bid last time. its crap when a member tips me more than minimum amount only to tip the minimum when the show restarts.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

on streamate, it is different. our goal shows are called gold shows. which you have a certain amount of time to join into a show. If the model doesn't meet their goal in the set time, you will not be charged. show needs to complete for the amount time the model set for the show. new members who are familiar with other goal set shows on other sites are more hesitant to join in. if you are on streamate and you see a model doing a gold show you are interested, tip in. worse case scenario is if it doesn't happen you keep your $3-$5.

i end up banning people who make it a habit on camping out during majority of my 12-15 min countdown and will only tip if i make starting goal or goal. i am constantly reminding members verbally and through saved text. if a member boldly tells me he waits until more people join in or closer to goal, i call bullshit and remind him that mentality doesn't get shows going. if don't change, they will not permitted to watch any of my gold shows.


if a gold show fails and the model says "i'm going to restart the countdown," don't leave. quicker you make the goal, quicker we can start. it is so discouraging when you are close to goal, reset, and your room clears out, mostly the tippers. if a model restarts, bid what you bid last time. its crap when a member tips me more than minimum amount only to tip the minimum when the show restarts.

Good info to know the differences. Thanks, Audri.

 

[MojitosJourney]

I love Streamate for this. You get your show in ten minutes or less or your money back! Brilliant! No longer wait around for hours hoping it’ll happen... for both model or member.

 

[Smores]

Well, I tried to explain it to her, but unfortunately I am not the guy who is going to help her see it. She had a 2000 token goal that was 800 tokens paid, and she said she would go on break. She got back from break and cancelled the goal and started over from the very first goal. I explained to her that some men would object to that and explained why someone who had paid for the 800 tokens might see that as a violation of trust. She insisted that no one had objected to her going on break, and she had fulfilled her main obligations before the break.

She was not able to understand that permission to go on a break is not the same at all as permission to reset a goal. She was pretty angry at me for raising the issue. I felt that this is a lesson she is going to have to learn the hard way, over time, as multiple men object to her. What is truly sad in this case is that this model has trouble developing regulars. Most of her tokens come from new visitors, and this kind of issue is probably one of the reasons she cannot develop a loyal following. What is also really unfortunate is that none of the men who were in the room before the break stayed around and actually complained to her about it. That reinforced in her mind that this must be a perfectly okay thing to do, and I was just being a wise guy. I tried.

Maybe you all could help me. Can you come up with some analogies that might help her see why this behavior is questionable, using non-webcam situations?

 

[CurvyJ]

Well, I tried to explain it to her, but unfortunately I am not the guy who is going to help her see it. She had a 2000 token goal that was 800 tokens paid, and she said she would go on break. She got back from break and cancelled the goal and started over from the very first goal. I explained to her that some men would object to that and explained why someone who had paid for the 800 tokens might see that as a violation of trust. She insisted that no one had objected to her going on break, and she had fulfilled her main obligations before the break.

She was not able to understand that permission to go on a break is not the same at all as permission to reset a goal. She was pretty angry at me for raising the issue. I felt that this is a lesson she is going to have to learn the hard way, over time, as multiple men object to her. What is truly sad in this case is that this model has trouble developing regulars. Most of her tokens come from new visitors, and this kind of issue is probably one of the reasons she cannot develop a loyal following. What is also really unfortunate is that none of the men who were in the room before the break stayed around and actually complained to her about it. That reinforced in her mind that this must be a perfectly okay thing to do, and I was just being a wise guy. I tried.

Maybe you all could help me. Can you come up with some analogies that might help her see why this behavior is questionable, using non-webcam situations?

Once I read the word "permission" I stopped being interested in what you were saying... did you use the word "permission" to her? Like you explained she had "permission" to go on break but did not have "permission" to reset the goal?

Maybe it's just me but if anyone...and I mean anyone tried to give me "permission" in my own room they would be booted and banned...

But maybe im triggered...

As for the question: I don't do large goal shows for fear of not being able to meet the goal...and I would not feel comfortable starting a goal and resetting it just because I took a break. I wouldn't reset but I would cancel if no movement was being made on goals in a long amount of time

 

[Miss_Pixie]

Haha, fuck that.

She has the right to do whatever she wants. There's no fucking "guidelines of camming she needs to follow that they're enforced. First stupid pretentious assumption.
I don't think it's fair to have a goal and try for 6 hours to reach it and make maybe 50% of it and expect her to CONTINUE again after that waste of time?
Do you realize she might be making less than minimum wage (no benefits, no health insurance)? (she might make even 5 dollars an hour in a really bad day and you expect her to SACRIFICE HER RESOURCES so you can feel somehow not scammed??? AT MY EYES you're the scammer)
Do you realize she is a person, a human like you, that might need to pay rent and her bills and all the fucking expenses that comes from camming that nobody tells you about (at most 30% back of your income to the IRS, Clothes, Props, Resources, Hardware)?

I think she is at fault just for not TELLING THEM what her policies and conditions are for the day.
I'm always clear but I would NEVER continue under-selling myself to make a few people happy in their unrealistic bubble.
I tried, and it doesn't work (*hugs her big debt for being a nice cam girl*) you don't get whale regulars or anything like that.

Just whining makes you look like a cheap motherfucker who doesn't care about human beings one bit, literally what you're complaining about... that she doesn't care about you, but you don't neither, I think it's FAIR TREATMENT.

Fuck off! with a huge kiss and a hug!

INB4 you say "she should know better and to not do this job" because that's going to be a LAZY come back, please, give reasons, FACTS and logic. I am in debt for being a nice GURRRL like you pointed out and there's no such thing as MAGICAL WEALTHY Regulars coming to the rescue, bullshiiiiittttt!

 

[Lintilla]

What is also really unfortunate is that none of the men who were in the room before the break stayed around and actually complained to her about it. That reinforced in her mind that this must be a perfectly okay thing to do, and I was just being a wise guy. I tried.

If literally no one who had tipped for my goal stuck around, there's a good chance I might do the same thing, depending on circumstances. Tips aren't just for the end goal. They also go toward everything you're getting in the meantime--flash at every 50, conversation etc. Members in the room who left probaby got their money's worth. If a member wants to pay only for the show, they should go private (maybe switch to a private based site) or tip enough to kill the goal or for what they want.

By the way, did YOU tip her? If not, you sound a lot like a freeloader sticking around for a free show. It's usually freeloaders complaining about this kind of thing vs tipping members...

 

[MDouble00]

Apologies if I missed it in one of the posts. When you say the model is going on break can you elaborate on how long she was away? I could see there being an issue possibly if the model steps away for say 5 to 15 minutes and then comes back and completely resets everything when people have been tipping.

I would think if a model is gone for 30+ minutes you could assume that when she comes back it is an entirely different shift and if she chooses to reset the goals that doesn't strike me as shorting the members who have previously tipped in the prior shift.

 

[Mila_]

Well, I tried to explain it to her, but unfortunately I am not the guy who is going to help her see it. She had a 2000 token goal that was 800 tokens paid, and she said she would go on break. She got back from break and cancelled the goal and started over from the very first goal. I explained to her that some men would object to that and explained why someone who had paid for the 800 tokens might see that as a violation of trust. She insisted that no one had objected to her going on break, and she had fulfilled her main obligations before the break.

She was not able to understand that permission to go on a break is not the same at all as permission to reset a goal. She was pretty angry at me for raising the issue. I felt that this is a lesson she is going to have to learn the hard way, over time, as multiple men object to her. What is truly sad in this case is that this model has trouble developing regulars. Most of her tokens come from new visitors, and this kind of issue is probably one of the reasons she cannot develop a loyal following. What is also really unfortunate is that none of the men who were in the room before the break stayed around and actually complained to her about it. That reinforced in her mind that this must be a perfectly okay thing to do, and I was just being a wise guy. I tried.

Maybe you all could help me. Can you come up with some analogies that might help her see why this behavior is questionable, using non-webcam situations?

I am telling you this from a place of compassion. Have you thought about the fact that the only way you seem to relate to the camgirls you watch is through coaching? This is not not a healthy pattern for you or good for the models you watch. When you do this you assume several things:
1) That your personality alone is not enough for a model to like you, that you need to prove yourself useful for them to have you in high esteem
2) That in spite of it you think you are smarter than them and can teach them how to do their own job. This is a job you have never done. It doesn’t seem to occur to you that they might have their own strategies and reasons for the way they do things. In the example above you said that tippers from before her break don’t seem to stick until she comes back. So maybe she knows it so she takes the break on purpose to restart a goal that was going nowhere with a new room of people who might want to tip for it the whole way through. Like “starting over”, it sounds like a sound strategy.
3) That they actually want or need your coaching.

Models need you to support them with your tipping, not with advice. If you already tip them and still want to help them more then focus on keeping their chats busy with happy lighthearted conversation. When you are constantly looking for “what can be fixed” so you can play your coach role, your mind is always on their faults and shortcomings. Nobody likes it when someone else is constantly pointing at their flaws.

 

[a_haze420]

I am telling you this from a place of compassion. Have you thought about the fact that the only way you seem to relate to the camgirls you watch is through coaching? This is not not a healthy pattern for you or good for the models you watch. When you do this you assume several things:
1) That your personality alone is not enough for a model to like you, that you need to prove yourself useful for them to have you in high esteem
2) That in spite of it you think you are smarter than them and can teach them how to do their own job. This is a job you have never done. It doesn’t seem to occur to you that they might have their own strategies and reasons for the way they do things. In the example above you said that tippers from before her break don’t seem to stick until she comes back. So maybe she knows it so she takes the break on purpose to restart a goal that was going nowhere with a new room of people who might want to tip for it the whole way through. Like “starting over”, it sounds like a sound strategy.
3) That they actually want or need your coaching.

Models need you to support them with your tipping, not with advice. If you already tip them and still want to help them more then focus on keeping their chats busy with happy lighthearted conversation. When you are constantly looking for “what can be fixed” so you can play your coach role, your mind is always on their faults and shortcomings. Nobody likes it when someone else is constantly pointing at their flaws.

I completely agree with you mila!!

 

[a_haze420]

I can also say as soon as I saw "permission" I was out. She doesn't need anyone's permission for anything. Her room. Her rules. Maybe if she gets mad for you bringing it up... Stop. If she isn't asking for your opinion and help dont continue to force it on her. Visit a different model if you don't like how she does it.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Well, I tried to explain it to her, but unfortunately I am not the guy who is going to help her see it. She had a 2000 token goal that was 800 tokens paid, and she said she would go on break. She got back from break and cancelled the goal and started over from the very first goal. I explained to her that some men would object to that and explained why someone who had paid for the 800 tokens might see that as a violation of trust. She insisted that no one had objected to her going on break, and she had fulfilled her main obligations before the break.

She was not able to understand that permission to go on a break is not the same at all as permission to reset a goal. She was pretty angry at me for raising the issue. I felt that this is a lesson she is going to have to learn the hard way, over time, as multiple men object to her. What is truly sad in this case is that this model has trouble developing regulars. Most of her tokens come from new visitors, and this kind of issue is probably one of the reasons she cannot develop a loyal following. What is also really unfortunate is that none of the men who were in the room before the break stayed around and actually complained to her about it. That reinforced in her mind that this must be a perfectly okay thing to do, and I was just being a wise guy. I tried.

Maybe you all could help me. Can you come up with some analogies that might help her see why this behavior is questionable, using non-webcam situations?

I'm with the models here. She doesn't need a member's permission to leave or go on break. Nor does she for resetting the goals. What anyone else thinks, it's her show and she can run as she likes. Whether it is successful or not is up to you. It's her's, and her's alone.

I've stated my thoughts on helping models countless times. Both publicly and in PM. At this point, I'm not going to comment further on any of these threads.

 

[Smores]

Once I read the word "permission" I stopped being interested in what you were saying... did you use the word "permission" to her? Like you explained she had "permission" to go on break but did not have "permission" to reset the goal?

SHE used the word permission. She was making the point that she had asked members in the room if it was okay to go on break, and she used the fact that no one objected to this request as proof that no one cared about reaching the goal.

 

[Smores]

I don't think it's fair to have a goal and try for 6 hours to reach it and make maybe 50% of it and expect her to CONTINUE again after that waste of time?
Do you realize she might be making less than minimum wage (no benefits, no health insurance)? (she might make even 5 dollars an hour in a really bad day and you expect her to SACRIFICE HER RESOURCES so you can feel somehow not scammed??? AT MY EYES you're the scammer)

She was at the goal for one hour and made 800 tokens. She normally has a goal of 600 tokens per hour, and she was ahead of her financial objective.

Do you realize she is a person, a human like you, that might need to pay rent and her bills and all the fucking expenses that comes from camming that nobody tells you about (at most 30% back of your income to the IRS, Clothes, Props, Resources, Hardware)?

She is one of my best friends on these webcam systems, and I adore her. I know everything that is important about her private life, her financial challenges, and her goals. Since I started working with her she has doubled her income and she is getting really close to being able to pay all of her education with her webcam work. I am 100% sympathetic to her if a show was not paying her money and she needed to cancel it for that reason.

Just whining makes you look like a cheap motherfucker who doesn't care about human beings one bit, literally what you're complaining about... that she doesn't care about you, but you don't neither, I think it's FAIR TREATMENT.

Well congratulations on understanding absolutely zero about me and my motivations. I could care less about whether she completes a show or not. I adored her before and after her decision, and my friendship with her is not conditioned on a show. The reason I care about this issue is she is at a stage where she needs to pick up regulars in her room. And she is having problems doing that. Most of her income is coming from new tippers each week. My concern is that she is bleeding away loyalty of her audience by doing things that seem okay to her, but that would not seem okay to most members.

 

[Smores]

If literally no one who had tipped for my goal stuck around, there's a good chance I might do the same thing, depending on circumstances. Tips aren't just for the end goal. They also go toward everything you're getting in the meantime--flash at every 50, conversation etc. Members in the room who left probaby got their money's worth. If a member wants to pay only for the show, they should go private (maybe switch to a private based site) or tip enough to kill the goal or for what they want.

I think she would agree with you that members "got most of what they paid for". But I have a lot of experience in other rooms where models pull a goal out from under people and members start to complain about that. *If* she cares about customer retention, this is something she should at least understand and at least get some empathy before she makes her decision. I am not taking sides on what is right or wrong. I am trying to help her retain customers.

By the way, did YOU tip her? If not, you sound a lot like a freeloader sticking around for a free show. It's usually freeloaders complaining about this kind of thing vs tipping members...

I have paid her so many thousands of dollars I have lost track. Last night was around 400 tokens, which was probably on the low side for me. We had a lot to discuss in PM and I was not really paying close attention to the show itself. I do not want to be her #1 customer because then the friendship becomes 90% about money.

 

[Smores]

Apologies if I missed it in one of the posts. When you say the model is going on break can you elaborate on how long she was away? I could see there being an issue possibly if the model steps away for say 5 to 15 minutes and then comes back and completely resets everything when people have been tipping.

I would think if a model is gone for 30+ minutes you could assume that when she comes back it is an entirely different shift and if she chooses to reset the goals that doesn't strike me as shorting the members who have previously tipped in the prior shift.

The progression she worked through was shirt off, shorts off, bra off, panties off, and the next goal was some random act. She went on a 10 minute coffee break and returned with all her clothes on, and she had reset the goal back to the beginning.

But - even with your example of 30 minutes - I feel like at minimum some communication about intent before the break would be appreciated. Put yourself in the position of a brand new member who paid in 500 of the 800 tokens toward that goal. He sticks around for 30 minutes waiting for this model to come back from her break, and the first thing she does is throw away nearly $40 (assuming 500 tokens cost on CB ~= $40) of his hard earned money, with not a word of explanation.

Without taking sides on whether it was right or wrong for her to do this, can people at least see how this member might get really frustrated by this and simply not return to her room? Since what I actually care about here is her ability to retain members and convert them into regulars, this becomes important to me.

 

[Smores]

I am telling you this from a place of compassion. Have you thought about the fact that the only way you seem to relate to the camgirls you watch is through coaching? This is not not a healthy pattern for you or good for the models you watch. When you do this you assume several things:
1) That your personality alone is not enough for a model to like you, that you need to prove yourself useful for them to have you in high esteem
2) That in spite of it you think you are smarter than them and can teach them how to do their own job. This is a job you have never done. It doesn’t seem to occur to you that they might have their own strategies and reasons for the way they do things. In the example above you said that tippers from before her break don’t seem to stick until she comes back. So maybe she knows it so she takes the break on purpose to restart a goal that was going nowhere with a new room of people who might want to tip for it the whole way through. Like “starting over”, it sounds like a sound strategy.
3) That they actually want or need your coaching.

Models need you to support them with your tipping, not with advice. If you already tip them and still want to help them more then focus on keeping their chats busy with happy lighthearted conversation. When you are constantly looking for “what can be fixed” so you can play your coach role, your mind is always on their faults and shortcomings. Nobody likes it when someone else is constantly pointing at their flaws.

Thanks for trying to be helpful.

I follow about 200 models. Only four of those are models I would want to help. So 98% of my model relationships are traditional member-model relationships. I only talk about the 2% I try to help on ACF, because ACF is about the business side of webcam. So the fact that I usually talk about that 2% on ACF gives you a very distorted view of me, but I do understand how this makes me look, and I appreciate the feedback. Hopefully this puts things into a more balanced context.

The model in question had 20 to 50 viewers in her room every day when I started talking to her. If I wanted to be 100% selfish about it, she would still have 20 to 50 viewers, and I would be getting 50% of her conversation every night. My friendship with her would be much deeper and much better developed if I wanted to focus on my interests and not hers.

I would never presume to force help on a model. She and I had four months to get to know each other well, and once the trust was built we had a clear conversation about her financial goals and what she wanted to accomplish in her show. I offered to help her, and she accepted that offer. What is in it for me is the opportunity to take a model from the very bottom to a place where she can make a full time living from the activity. And what is in it for her is the ability to accelerate her financial progress. For me it is just an interesting hobby to learn the business side of this activity. Okay, so I am a workaholic. I am a business geek. As bad habits go, these are pretty good bad habits to have.

This model had a profile that was 20% complete. She had no real tip menu. She had bad lighting. She sat in her chair and barely had any performance. She never had goals. And none of that was changing or improving over time. She had been doing this for about a year. Her studio gives her no help.

Two months after we started working on her show, now she has 700 viewers every night, and there are usually hours of her shift where men are in a frenzy sending her 100+ token tips. Her tip menu improved. Her notifiers improved. She learned interesting positions and poses. She developed a better lighting system (lighting alone doubled her viewer count!). She started doing goals and men really responded well to that structure. Now we are at the stage where she has a solid foundation, and she needs to develop regular customers who frequent the room and have a habit to spend 300+ tokens with her.

To your point about her having her own strategies, she makes every final decision. I present an idea and give her the argument in its favor. There are plenty of cases where she says "no" and after short conversation I just confirm her decision and we move on.

In the end, this model has so many people interacting with her that I will get very little of her time during the shows. None of this served my interests well, if my goal was to maximize my time with her. But I do not regret any of this because I learned a tremendous amount about what works and what does not work, to move a performer from ground zero to at least a respectable level of income.

 

[MollyMidnight]

I started out sympathetic. I don't agree with what she's doing. I also don't give a shit, but I don't agree with it. But here's the thing: you spoke to her and she doesn't care what you think. You have 2 options now: stay and never bring it up again, or leave. If it's causing her problems she'll realise it eventually. If it's working then good for her.

Also the only way you give a model "permission" to do something is if she's a submissive and you have paid her to do it. Even then, it's roleplay.

I know everything that is important about her private life

But do you? Do you really?

 

[Smores]

I'm with the models here. She doesn't need a member's permission to leave or go on break. Nor does she for resetting the goals. What anyone else thinks, it's her show and she can run as she likes. Whether it is successful or not is up to you. It's her's, and her's alone.

Earlier in this thread you said "If a model resets her goal, I could see it if she takes a long break (couple hours) and comes back with a new goal. 15 minute break, nah. She can put herself as "away", and it should keep her goals in place." What made you flip your opinion?

I've stated my thoughts on helping models countless times. Both publicly and in PM. At this point, I'm not going to comment further on any of these threads.

Believe it or not, I found most of your criticisms very helpful. I am far less likely to help a new model going forward. The model I am discussing in this thread I am going to continue to help. I enjoy what I am doing with her. I should not need to justify this.

 

[Smores]

But do you? Do you really?

Regarding understanding what is important from her private life, you never really know for sure. But she has told me stories about her childhood, her relationships with parents, her personal relationships, her schooling, her financial goals and life goals. None of those stories change over time. And she is a person with tremendous intelligence, consistency, and integrity. None of these stories have any angle that is intended to make me spend more money on her, and she never asks for handouts. And a lot of what she has told me makes pretty clear that she hates sexual performance and really does this job for money. That would be a strange message to give a member if you wanted him to be hooked on you for sexual services. That is just one example of many where she gives me honest disclosure that would not - on paper anyway - make me a better "customer". She told me once that I may be the only person in the world who actually understands her feelings. Okay, I am a little skeptical about that one, but it feels like there are pretty honest moments being exchanged that do not have monetary angles on them.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Earlier in this thread you said "If a model resets her goal, I could see it if she takes a long break (couple hours) and comes back with a new goal. 15 minute break, nah. She can put herself as "away", and it should keep her goals in place." What made you flip your opinion?

It really isn't flipping my views, since it's up to her to make those decisions. I was giving my viewpoint on it, with what I have seen a number of models do and how I felt. Ultimately, it's her decision on how to run her business. Which, has always been my stance from the beginning. She'll either learn or not and potentially keep losing members.

Believe it or not, I found most of your criticisms very helpful. I am far less likely to help a model going forward. The model I am discussing in this thread I am going to continue to help. I enjoy what I am doing with her. I should not need to justify this.

I'm not asking you to justify it. Where I am at is that I feel you keep sticking your head further down the rabbit hole, and eventually you're going to find that it's a snake hole. Everyone has to make their own decisions regarding what kind of help to give, how long, and when to cut their losses. While you say you're not as likely to do so in the future, I feel you still are allowing yourself to be taken by those whom you still want to help. You follow 200 models, yet say "only about 4" or 98% are ones you'd want to help.
There's no way I could follow 200 models, I'd be sitting on cam sites all day just doing that. Add in that you're here asking questions for models you're doing things for, as well as actually doing the work for them? When do you have time to sleep, or work to make money and pay your bills and tip the 200 models you follow?
This isn't about you needing to justify to me, or anyone, what you do. This is about me saying I'm cutting my losses and not bothering to read/respond to your threads/posts about helping anymore.

Wish you the best of luck on these endeavors of yours.

 

[Mila_]

I follow about 200 models. Only four of those are models I would want to help. So 98% of my model relationships are traditional member-model relationships. I only talk about the 2% I try to help

You follow 200 models but you don't have relationships with them. Every member "follows" hundreds, but they only establish a relationship with a selected few, the models that speak to them, say, 5. So in reality 100% of your relationships with models are of the coaching type. The other 195 you follow are the ones you casually watch, you probably interact very little if at all with.

In the end, this model has so many people interacting with her that I will get very little of her time during the shows. None of this served my interests well, if my goal was to maximize my time with her.

Oh but that is not your goal. Some members get off the 1 on 1 attention the model gives them, I call these guys "romantics". Others get off the sexual acts the model performs, these are "sexuals". For some it is about the bragging rights of displaying wealth through publicly tipping in front of hundreds, these are "braggies". Then there is a group who get off on power dynamics with the model which is in my opinion the group you belong to. While a romantic would want to maximize the attention the model gives him, a braggy will want to have his name plastered all over her profile in the high tips sections, and a sexual will want to see her put a bat up her ass, a power hungry guy like you is in heaven when a model enacts a script written by him with a show thought up by him, a lighting setup suggested by him and perhaps music, poses and lingerie he chose. You even claim the model's success as yours. In another thread you literally said "I would move her faster if I wanted but I dont want to make her feel awkward" you MOVE the model like it was furniture around the site and if she is successful is because you wanted it.