Domestic Violence

[PlayboyMegan]

Sensitive subject ahead. Topic says it all. If you're not prepared to debate, move along.
Is domestic violence EVER okay? In what case?
If a woman stays in an abusive relationship, is any of the blame on her, or solely the abuser?

 

[mynameisbob84]

Is it ever okay? No. Not ever. Not even a little bit.

If a woman stays in an abusive relationship, does any of the blame lie on her? That one's trickier, but I think the answer is ultimately no. Being in an abusive relationship is gonna be pretty damaging, and not just in terms of cuts and bruises. Women who are battered by their boyfriends/husbands typically have low self esteem as a result and many convince themselves that it's actually their fault. There are also other factors that may lead them to believe they have to stay in the relationship - children, money, etc.

That said, whenever I hear about a woman leaving an abusive relationship and then going back to the same asshole who beat her black and blue (topical example; Rihanna going back to Chris Brown) I can't help but feel completely and utterly exasperated by the whole thing. She's willingly going back to somebody who beat her so badly she had to go to the hospital because he was having a bad day... while I certainly hope it doesn't happen again, if/when it does, I guess I'm only gonna have so much sympathy for her.

I should also add, that while less common, men are occassionally the ones being abused by their significant other. It's not as widespread, but it happens.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Is it ever okay? No. Not ever. Not even a little bit.

If a woman stays in an abusive relationship, does any of the blame lie on her? That one's trickier, but I think the answer is ultimately no. Being in an abusive relationship is gonna be pretty damaging, and not just in terms of cuts and bruises. Women who are battered by their boyfriends/husbands typically have low self esteem as a result and many convince themselves that it's actually their fault. There are also other factors that may lead them to believe they have to stay in the relationship - children, money, etc.

That said, whenever I hear about a woman leaving an abusive relationship and then going back to the same asshole who beat her black and blue (topical example; Rihanna going back to Chris Brown) I can't help but feel completely and utterly exasperated by the whole thing. She's willingly going back to somebody who beat her so badly she had to go to the hospital because he was having a bad day... while I certainly hope it doesn't happen again, if/when it does, I guess I'm only gonna have so much sympathy for her.

I should also add, that while less common, men are occassionally the ones being abused by their significant other. It's not as widespread, but it happens.

Definitely. I only added the woman being beat as an example, but it swings both ways.

 

[Evvie]

I am about to take a slightly middle ground, so plz bear with me.

I think that when someone is violent, aggressive, or abusive, that is ALWAYS on the aggressor. There was never a more ridiculous phrase than, "you made me do it."

Because I feel this will come up if we get a discussion going, I also think that literally taunting or goading someone to try and get them to attack you is a different matter altogether. For example, my brother experienced a very traumatic miscarriage with his girlfriend. If I walked up to him and started telling him horrible things revolving around the loss of his child, and he got upset and punched me in the face, I feel like I would probably bear some of the responsibility for emotionally torturing him to the point where he lashed out. But to me, this is an extremely different situation than a boyfriend or girlfriend who becomes abusive regularly as a mechanism to cope with everyday stress.

While I believe the aggressor is always responsible, I would like to share a situation with you all that has had me confused for the past several days. Maybe you could shed some light on it.

I was with my female friend, who cams occasionally on MFC. Some random member got angry (probably because she would not open boobs) and started acting like a total jackass. He started spamming the chat with dick emotes. I told my friend to ban him, but she refused, even though he upset her. Then he started attacking her appearance, which I know bothered her quite a bit. I told her to ban him, but she ignored me. She let him carry on for several minutes, all the while she became more and more hurt, until she finally decided to ban him from the room.

She was clearly very upset by his actions and behavior, but instead of putting him on ban or ignore, she sat there and let him attack her for a few minutes until it became too much and she put a stop to it.

In this situation, I still would put 100% of the blame on that asshat for being a sadistic prick. But despite my feelings, logic still says to me that she could have easily stopped the situation at any time, but she chose to let it carry on. While this obviously isn't domestic violence, would you say that she might bear some of the responsibility because stopping the attack would have taken two clicks of a button? Or is she in no way responsible?

 

[Nordling]

Yeah, no blame on the victims--ever. It's frustrating to have a friend or relative who we know is doing things against their own best interests, but it's just not that simple. Kind of like Stockholm syndrome, it's not something someone can just flip a switch on.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I'm pretty much on the middle ground as some of you, as well. The Rihanna and Chris Brown thing drives me crazy and I don't feel bad for any more beatings that happen to her. Harsh, but true. However, many therapists would say that the victim is not mentally fit to be held responsible. But there comes a time when it gets to be too much. "But I love him" is a line that makes me go
I'm not a naturally aggressive person at all, but I have been physically violent before, only when I was pushed to a breaking point. Being cornered when I have severe anxiety is much like a cat being trapped and poured water on. I looked at it more like self-defense and in that case, I felt like I was partially a victim myself, even if I wasn't physically hurt.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I'm pretty much on the middle ground as some of you, as well. The Rihanna and Chris Brown thing drives me crazy and I don't feel bad for any more beatings that happen to her. Harsh, but true. However, many therapists would say that the victim is not mentally fit to be held responsible. But there comes a time when it gets to be too much. "But I love him" is a line that makes me go
I'm not a naturally aggressive person at all, but I have been physically violent before, only when I was pushed to a breaking point. Being cornered when I have severe anxiety is much like a cat being trapped and poured water on. I looked at it more like self-defense and in that case, I felt like I was partially a victim myself, even if I wasn't physically hurt.

 

[Nordling]

Sometimes, online, I think folks are not being victims but attempting to "win" in a situation by not fighting back. The concept is simple...someone is abusing you verbally in a chat, forum or newsgroup and you passively allow it in the belief that you will gain sympathy and the abuser will get the "blame." Is this a good strategy? I think sometimes it is, but every situation is different, and you may find your former friends attacking you along with the abuser because you didn't fight back.

Humans are so ugly (mentally) sometimes.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

That last post was a fail, sry

 

[16_bit]

I agree with mynameisbob84, i don't think it's ever ok.

I also agree that ultimately it's hard to put any blame on the victim. The abuser often tries to cut them off from friends/family, or limits interaction without them being there. They also turn things to blame the person and really destroy any self confidence. Then when you add fear on top of that, it makes it seems almost impossible to the victim that they can get out. Especially when the abuser threatens to take the kids if they have any, the thought of losing the children you love is a powerful tool they often use.

 

[touchbunny]

Yeah, no blame on the victims--ever. It's frustrating to have a friend or relative who we know is doing things against their own best interests, but it's just not that simple. Kind of like Stockholm syndrome, it's not something someone can just flip a switch on.

thats exactly it. now i can never comprehend someone staying with someone that makes them miserable and feel like shit, but i've had my share of stockholm fantasies. (lol when people ask me my kinks.) its not always 'damaged goods' lacking self confidence and such that suffer from this, could be anyone. granted it takes a more twisted rollercoaster to make your average joe blow a loving captive, but in the end you can't blame the victim. they may be staying/stuck, but they aren't the one being violent.

i think the only time that you really can lay out even blame is when its that double edged sort of domestic violence. he shouts, she throws shit, they hit each other, they have mean sex, they get over it and follow it up with another fight the next night. one of those things i can watch on television but can't begin to understand.

 

[Red7227]

I'm stuck in the middle of a break up at the moment. The now Ex husband is my best friend of 22 years. He is still my best friend, just so we are clear. The wife is also one of my best friends and I just spent a week visiting her and the kids over christmas.

Basically the stories don't match. He feels that the situation is intolerable, gets frustrated by the situation and has hit is 5 yo a number of times and his wife once about a year ago. Living with two terrifyingly bright and challenging children and a wife who is much smarter than he is has been a situation he has failing at for some years now.

She has been accommodating, and only took him back last time he left on the condition that he see a psychiatrist and stay on his medication, something he has failed to do. I tend to side with her point of view that he is just not dealing and his deep depression is stopping any chance of his coping. This lack of coping comes out in his antisocial behaviour and frustrates everyone concerned.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I wanted to add something which is a biased opinion.
I watched my mom get beat when I was a child. Although the men never hit me, watching it being done was traumatic. Because of this, I have even less sympathy for women with children. Because my mom was a weak person, I suffered, and that's not okay. No matter what she was suffering through mentally, she should have been strong enough to walk away. Not just for herself, but more importantly, her children. In that particular case, I blame the first-hand victim (her), but not the second-hand victim (myself). As well as blaming the abuser(s).

 

[Rose]

I feel like emotional, psychological and verbal domestic abuse fall under this category too (it's violent though not physical). Not all abuse is physical and sometimes the not physical stuff is more damaging than the physical stuff.

In cases of not physical abuse, the lines can be blurred more and it's harder to tell victim from abuser. I don't believe the victim should be blamed in that case as it's usually harder for them to see what's going on, whereas with physical abuse, there's tangible evidence that something's not right.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I feel like emotional, psychological and verbal domestic abuse fall under this category too (it's violent though not physical). Not all abuse is physical and sometimes the not physical stuff is more damaging than the physical stuff.

In cases of not physical abuse, the lines can be blurred more and it's harder to tell victim from abuser. I don't believe the victim should be blamed in that case as it's usually harder for them to see what's going on, whereas with physical abuse, there's tangible evidence that something's not right.

That's a great point, Rose. :thumbleft:
Things like manipulation are easily unseen. But a black eye is very much there.

 

[Remykins]

I'm going to be super open about this, mainly because I'm finally in the place where I CAN be open and talk about it. Time heals a lot. But I was in an abusive relationship for two years. The abuse started about nine months in, and for 13 months I endured abuse on many levels. Hitting, kicking, choking, being smothered with pillows, rape, etc. I can go on but you get the idea. I will say that in my EXPERIENCED opinion, that no, abuse is never ok, no matter what. And if a woman stays in an abusive relationship, the blame should NEVER stay on her. Women who are abused are abused mentally before the physical side kicks in. They're degraded, and I was made to believe that I was nothing without him. I was also told that if I ended the relationship, he would find me and make me sorry I left. I honestly believed that if I left him, he'd come after me or members of my family. The thing, in the end that DID inspire me to leave was an incident where he threw me in the tub, smashed my head off the wall and I woke up covered in water. He says he was trying to wake me up, but I believe otherwise - in any case, it was that moment where I knew if I didn't get out, he'd kill me. So I left. But it was the hardest choice I had to make, and it took years of therapy, working with other abused women and finally being treated properly by a man to help me be able to understand what went on and why. Having him convicted also gave me some closure (for the record, three months after I ended it, he DID find me and assaulted me again, but someone walked in on it and the police were finally called and he was arrested and charged)...

So the answer to this question is NO abuse is never ok and NO women are not to blame, in any way, shape or form, for staying with an abuser. Her staying with an abuser is part of the abuse that he puts on her.

 

[Shaun__]

Sometimes the choices life gives a person are less than ideal. Other times choices are plentiful, but the chains forged of love, fear, or duty can weigh a person down. It is easy for me to look at an abusive relationship and say she should leave, but that may not be feasible.

 

[LadyLuna]

Mutually abusive relationships, in which each one is abusing the other, who's at fault there? I dunno.

I do think goading someone deliberately until they hit you, that's on you. In that case, you're the one abusing them. Unless it's some kind of therapy where you're trying to help them learn to control their anger, you're the one pulling the strings. And pulling someone else's strings is often a form of mental abuse.

Those are the only iffy instances. A mother with kids being abused, sure, she should leave, but it's not any easier for her than it is for the woman who doesn't have kids. It might even be harder if leaving involves sneaking out without the abuser noticing- have you ever tried to keep kids quiet when they are scared? And if the woman doesn't have a job (which is common since one of the first things the abuser does is separate the woman from anything that could help her be independent, including contacts and jobs) she will probably be afraid that the abuser will get custody of the kids and be abusive towards them. Since it's also shown that kids do better if they have a mother figure and a father figure, the mother might think it's best for the kids if she stays.

So again, no blame on the one being abused. The only time any blame falls on the one being abused is if they were abusing their abuser in some way.

 

[Aella]

Growing up in a religious environment, there's definitely an element of martyrdom in there. If the people involved are sincerely religious in any way, then enduring suffering but loving despite it all gives them a sense of holiness, like they are going through a great trial given to them by God.

Being abused can actually bring them pleasure. It's weird.

 

[Neudiin]

SpexyAshleigh - I'm sure that was not easy to share, thank you for the bravery and openness =)

I never blame the abuser for the abuse. I do blame them for it continuing, especially once help is offered.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I never blame the abuser for the abuse.

:? Then who do you blame??

 

[sweetiebatman]

I think he means the abusee (if thats even a word?!)

At least I hope thats what he means..

Domestic violence is disgusting in all its horrible forms, Physical, Mental or whatever, I can completely see why people could become trapped in the vicious cycle and find it impossible to get help or escape. I can only hope that if I ere ever confronted with one of my friends in that situation I would be man enough to stand up and help in whatever way I can

 

[crappuccino]

why are everyones acquaintances so much crazier than mine? i mean

(hollywood grade nutjob)

where do you even find people like that? and hook up with them? and how are they all masters of deception?

 

[mynameisbob84]

why are everyones acquaintances so much crazier than mine? i mean

(hollywood grade nutjob)

where do you even find people like that? and hook up with them? and how are they all masters of deception?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here. People who are capable of/prone to abusing their spouse aren't isolated to some conveniently designated zone and they don't come with an easily recognisable uniform. They could be anywhere and they could be anyone.

 

[southsamurai]

ok, first off the disclaimer. abuse is never ok, never ever. i despise abusers and have gone out of my way to do bad things to them in my darker past

that being said i have a rule about helping out abusees. once they go back the 2nd time i cut them out. leaving takes courage, it takes strength. each time the victim is more likely to stay gone, but there is a limit to my personal patience. having a bit of the old white knight/superman syndrome in my make up i used to be quite willing to do whatever i could to help people out of such situations. i never once saw such a situation in which the abused partner did not go back at least once. its part of the syndrome. but from the outside, once the person goes back a 2nd time there is nothing that an outsider can do to help. i wish that we could wave a magic wand and fix things, but we cant.

co-dependent people seek out the situation to a certain extent, i know several women, and one man who got out of abusive relationships only to dive right back in to another one, and in many cases, another one after that.

is that their "fault" no way, no how. it does mean that there is no reason for me to get involved in their life in any way whatsoever. it indicates a pattern of behavior on their part that is ingrained to an extent that only years and years of therapy can hope to patch. and i mean patch, not fix. whatever it is in the specific individual that makes them feel that they deserve the treatment, or desire the treatment, is not something that gets fixed from my experience.


extra note: no matter what, if you are being abused you do not deserve it. there is a way out, help is available. as far as i have seen every area has some form of safe house or assistance program to give escape to battered or otherwise abused women and children. it is scary and rather intimidating to consider leaving the situation, but in my nearly 39 years i have only ever seen one abuser stop. so please, fins the resources and get out

 

[Nordling]

Yes. Someone who I had considered my best friend turned out to be a wife abuser and violent person. He simply hid it from his friends.

Oh, there were signs and "tells." At the time, I was just too naive to see them. I think there are probably a lot of these "hidden abusers" that live among us, quietly abusing spouses, girlfriends and perhaps relatives without the direct knowledge of "buddies."

 

[JickyJuly]

If either party in an abusive relationship has children that they are allowing to see such a thing, I blame them. I blame them so hard. I don't care how scared or in love they are or angry and violent. Once you have babies, those babies come first and being around violence is insanely detrimental to children especially during the ages 1-5 while their emotional responses are forming.

In any other case, the abuser is solely to blame. I have been violent with two of them men in my life - 1 pretty significantly. That violence was on me (no matter how idiotic the men were being). I sought counseling and sorted my feelings out so that I can be a better partner and more in control of my actions. It's one thing for a violent person not to get help, but to actually believe our actions belong to anyone else is crazy.

 

[LadyLuna]

why are everyones acquaintances so much crazier than mine? i mean

(hollywood grade nutjob)

where do you even find people like that? and hook up with them? and how are they all masters of deception?

They aren't ALL masters of deceptions. A lot of them end up in jail for being unable to hide their anger management issues. But a lot of them learned how to make themselves appear acceptable to society. Then, trial and error gives them the keys to how to manipulate women. Or the fun tactics that are now sold in bookstores on "how to make women want you" which tell men to take down the self-esteem of women. And it's everywhere, this woman-shaming behavior, so most people don't even realize that some of the people engaging in it then go home and live it, and make their wife live it.

Some people honestly don't know that other people are joking. Some people honestly can't tell what sarcasm looks like. Young children already can't, so young children exposed to adult jokes and adult movies end up with a skewed view of the world, thinking that women really do need to get beat if they aren't in the kitchen.

 

[Just Me]

Not to be all high-brow about it, but violence should never be acceptable in a modern society. Domestic situation or not. The onus of blame will always fall on the one committing the violence. To me, words are never enough to justify violence against another human being. Self defense is the only time it is justified, in my opinion.

 

[Rose]

how are they all masters of deception?

Because most abusers start out with manipulation and subtle psychological abuse. At first it doesn't seem like abuse, "he only called me fat because I ate a whole pizza" or "he only called me a c*** because I was nagging him when he was doing something else," but it grows and can quickly develop from subtle abuse to something more severe. By then it's usually too late to realize that there were warning signs from the beginning.

I have never met an abuser that was obvious or public with their actions. They were all people persons, had a lot of charisma in public, were great at manipulating everyone around them slyly and were VERY adept at getting others to like and trust them. They were never a problem in public or in front of others. It was behind closed doors that was the problem.

I'm now indirectly related to a woman beater who's a master manipulator. Everyone who knows him publicly thinks he's an amazing man who works hard and has a lot of friends. Only his family members know that he beats his wife, cheats on his wife, regularly physically abused his daughters when they were young and emotionally abuses his son. From the outside, he seems like the perfect husband and great businessman. Everyone I've met who doesn't know the home situation thinks he's wonderful and sings his praise.... :roll: