Cam models, please advise me on my moral dilemma.

[chriscross]

Cam models, please advise me on my moral dilemma.

Hi, I’m brand new to this site (so hopefully I want get blocked) and I’m a new customer in the cam site world.
I have a moral question that’s killing me inside and I feel that cam models are the best people to ask for advice.

I signed upto a cam page last week and bought a bundle of credits.
I’ve been very respectful when on the site.
I don’t freeload on a models page, if I’m on there for more than 30 seconds, I tip.
I mostly go on their pages to see if I’d like to do a cam2cam with them in the future.
I’ve only done 4 cam to cams so far and been respectful everyone time.
I haven’t asked the model to do anything wild, simply to play with herself whilst she watches me play with myself.
I’m guessing that’s a pretty standard request.
I’m never rude, demanding or weird towards the models.

But here is my dilemma.
3 of my c2c’s have been with the same Russian model who I really like.
However, I’m very observant in general and have very quickly picked up on some issues which have now led me to believe with almost certainty that she’s camming from a rented space.
Like I said, I’m new to this world and naively didn’t realise what that meant.
So I did some research and I’m now worried that she’s being exploited.
I feel that she’s only getting a very small portion of the money and I’m worried that she may even be being forced to cam.
The guilt is killing me, but I don’t care about that.
I just want to know what’s best for her.
I know I can’t ask her outright as there’ll be someone monitoring the cam and I wouldn’t want to get her into trouble.
I can tip her more, though I’m not rich and I now feel that she’ll only get a small portion of the money.
I asked her if I could c2c on Friday, but know I don’t know what to do???

I thought what I was doing was mutually beneficial, I was getting a short thrill and I was paying the model for it rather than freeloading on pornhub or somewhere.

the simple option would be not cam with girls from countries where they may be getting exploited, but I already feel that I have some sort of moral responsibility towards her.

I’m not being weird about it, like I’m not saying that I love her and want to fly out and see her or anything.

But I don’t know what the best thing to do is.

please help.

 

[MarieElise]

Cam models, please advise me on my moral dilemma.

Hi, I’m brand new to this site (so hopefully I want get blocked) and I’m a new customer in the cam site world.
I have a moral question that’s killing me inside and I feel that cam models are the best people to ask for advice.

I signed upto a cam page last week and bought a bundle of credits.
I’ve been very respectful when on the site.
I don’t freeload on a models page, if I’m on there for more than 30 seconds, I tip.
I mostly go on their pages to see if I’d like to do a cam2cam with them in the future.
I’ve only done 4 cam to cams so far and been respectful everyone time.
I haven’t asked the model to do anything wild, simply to play with herself whilst she watches me play with myself.
I’m guessing that’s a pretty standard request.
I’m never rude, demanding or weird towards the models.

But here is my dilemma.
3 of my c2c’s have been with the same Russian model who I really like.
However, I’m very observant in general and have very quickly picked up on some issues which have now led me to believe with almost certainty that she’s camming from a rented space.
Like I said, I’m new to this world and naively didn’t realise what that meant.
So I did some research and I’m now worried that she’s being exploited.
I feel that she’s only getting a very small portion of the money and I’m worried that she may even be being forced to cam.
The guilt is killing me, but I don’t care about that.
I just want to know what’s best for her.
I know I can’t ask her outright as there’ll be someone monitoring the cam and I wouldn’t want to get her into trouble.
I can tip her more, though I’m not rich and I now feel that she’ll only get a small portion of the money.
I asked her if I could c2c on Friday, but know I don’t know what to do???

I thought what I was doing was mutually beneficial, I was getting a short thrill and I was paying the model for it rather than freeloading on pornhub or somewhere.

the simple option would be not cam with girls from countries where they may be getting exploited, but I already feel that I have some sort of moral responsibility towards her.

I’m not being weird about it, like I’m not saying that I love her and want to fly out and see her or anything.

But I don’t know what the best thing to do is.

please help.

I don't understand why does camming from a rented space (if that's true) mean that she's being exploited to you?

 

[chriscross]

I don't understand why does camming from a rented space (if that's true) mean that she's being exploited to you?

Because I read some articles on Google from investigators who said that Russian cam girls were being exploited and having most of their profits taken from them not only by the cam page, but by their employers.
Maybe what I’m reading is extreme and rare, I don’t know.
But the articles made out like it was a major problem in the likes of Russia and Romania.
And that these studies were used to launder money by the Russian mafia and the girls were treated like crap.

Am I just overthinking this?
I don’t know much about it.

 

[Marceline]

However, I’m very observant in general and have very quickly picked up on some issues which have now led me to believe with almost certainty that she’s camming from a rented space.

She's more than likely camming on her own free will from a studio, which is very common for cam girls from certain countries.

 

[anabeauty37]

Cam models, please advise me on my moral dilemma.

Hi, I’m brand new to this site (so hopefully I want get blocked) and I’m a new customer in the cam site world.
I have a moral question that’s killing me inside and I feel that cam models are the best people to ask for advice.

I signed upto a cam page last week and bought a bundle of credits.
I’ve been very respectful when on the site.
I don’t freeload on a models page, if I’m on there for more than 30 seconds, I tip.
I mostly go on their pages to see if I’d like to do a cam2cam with them in the future.
I’ve only done 4 cam to cams so far and been respectful everyone time.
I haven’t asked the model to do anything wild, simply to play with herself whilst she watches me play with myself.
I’m guessing that’s a pretty standard request.
I’m never rude, demanding or weird towards the models.

But here is my dilemma.
3 of my c2c’s have been with the same Russian model who I really like.
However, I’m very observant in general and have very quickly picked up on some issues which have now led me to believe with almost certainty that she’s camming from a rented space.
Like I said, I’m new to this world and naively didn’t realise what that meant.
So I did some research and I’m now worried that she’s being exploited.
I feel that she’s only getting a very small portion of the money and I’m worried that she may even be being forced to cam.
The guilt is killing me, but I don’t care about that.
I just want to know what’s best for her.
I know I can’t ask her outright as there’ll be someone monitoring the cam and I wouldn’t want to get her into trouble.
I can tip her more, though I’m not rich and I now feel that she’ll only get a small portion of the money.
I asked her if I could c2c on Friday, but know I don’t know what to do???

I thought what I was doing was mutually beneficial, I was getting a short thrill and I was paying the model for it rather than freeloading on pornhub or somewhere.

the simple option would be not cam with girls from countries where they may be getting exploited, but I already feel that I have some sort of moral responsibility towards her.

I’m not being weird about it, like I’m not saying that I love her and want to fly out and see her or anything.

But I don’t know what the best thing to do is.

please help.

unfortunalty you are right i guess like 80% of models in studio hate the job becouse studious force them to work manny hours, tired, sick, sad doenst matter must work like in a factory .. and yes she is getting way less then independ models ., and u cant ask her contact you creating her problems in site and in studio also .. i think all you can do is to spend more and she is getting more if you really wanna help her .
also, nothing wrong with rental place lots studious are renting places or apartaments and im sure she signed a contract in that studio , noone force her just no other options as manny other models from estern europe . shes getting probably 50% of her earnings , still money that for sure she need.

 

[MarlieJane]

I think it's kind of... I can't think of a good word...icky...to assume things like that. I feel like this sentiment is harmful to our industry as a whole.

 

[anabeauty37]

I think it's kind of... I can't think of a good word...icky...to assume things like that. I feel like this sentiment is harmful to our industry as a whole.

Is posible, in Romania was in the news last week , police entering in an apartament , models been on cam , naked , they been forced to do camming also few of them under 18 .. u can see the video in the article ..

Videoclip explicit! Trei tinere sexy din Iași care făceau videochat în grup au fost oprite de mascații de la SAS. De la tremurat de plăcere, au trecut brusc la tremurat de frică

În mediul online a ajuns un videoclip în care trei tinere sunt oprite brusc din treabă de mascații de la...

www.bzi.ro

 

[Nigerian Prince]

Just think about it this way. In this capitalist world we live in most people are being exploited to some degree by their employers, studio cam models are no exception. The fact is there is very little you as an individual can do about it. It's very unlikely that's she's being forced to cam.

If you don't want to tip studio models because you don't think it's justifiable that's perfectly fine, customers come and go all the time and models get used to it.

 

[THE MOLLIE MARIE]

Others have answered the rest of your post, but this part

I have some sort of moral responsibility towards her

stands out to me. You don't have any responsibility, moral or otherwise, to continue to pay for a service that you don't feel good about. For any reason. I would move on if it really bothers you to think that she might be working for a studio. But as others have said, I don't think that working under a studio necessarily means she is being exploited or whatever.

 

[chriscross]

I’m really sorry, I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I of course have no issues with models using rented spaces (why would I), I just got carried away when reading these stories of exploitation.
But I know that you shouldn’t believe everything you read in the media.
You’re responses are reassuring and I guess they are the responses I was hoping for.
Again, I meant no disrespect to anyone.

 

[MarieElise]

Because I read some articles on Google from investigators who said that Russian cam girls were being exploited and having most of their profits taken from them not only by the cam page, but by their employers.
Maybe what I’m reading is extreme and rare, I don’t know.
But the articles made out like it was a major problem in the likes of Russia and Romania.
And that these studies were used to launder money by the Russian mafia and the girls were treated like crap.

Am I just overthinking this?
I don’t know much about it.

Yes, I'm not sure either, because of the main issue that you highlighted about not knowing if that is rare or common there.
But I don't see what you could do about it, even if it were true anyway. Too many what-ifs.
So I guess if I were you I would just keep on being supportive, and hope that you are wrong.
Since you can't know for sure either way, probably best not to assume the absolute worst case, most nefarious scenario here. Even just for your own mental well-being.

 

[yummybrownfox]

I don't understand why does camming from a rented space (if that's true) mean that she's being exploited to you?

I think it's kind of... I can't think of a good word...icky...to assume things like that. I feel like this sentiment is harmful to our industry as a whole.

It makes me sad that these stereotypes about "studio models" from certain countries would cause a man to stop visiting a model he enjoyed.

 

[chriscross]

Yes, I'm not sure either, because of the main issue that you highlighted about not knowing if that is rare or common there.
But I don't see what you could do about it, even if it were true anyway. Too many what-ifs.
So I guess if I were you I would just keep on being supportive, and hope that you are wrong.
Since you can't know for sure either way, probably best not to assume the absolute worst case, most nefarious scenario here. Even just for your own mental well-being.

You’re right, thanks for the advice.

 

[chriscross]

It makes me sad that these stereotypes about "studio models" from certain countries would cause a man to stop visiting a model he enjoyed.

I feel like I’ve pissed everyone off and that wasn’t my intention. I just got carried away in my own head after reading the articles.
Regardless of people’s responses, I now feel more reassured that I was just being stupid and overreacting.
I asked for guidance from people more I the know and I got the answer I was ultimately hoping for.

 

[chriscross]

She's more than likely camming on her own free will from a studio, which is very common for cam girls from certain countries.

Thank you for your guidance. I guess I was just being an idiot and overreacting to the articles I read.

 

[Billyboy]

I visit a number of models who are in studios. Yes, the studio takes a % of the money. Could they become independent models? One did, the others don't have living arrangements or the equipment that would let them do that. However, even though the studio takes their cut, the models are still earning more than they would doing other jobs in their cities. While there are probably some models being exploited, the reality is that the job is allowing them to pay their bills. The reality is that economic reasons "force" (makes it more financially attractive) them to cam, rather than any physical threat. You can make the choice to help then pay their bills by tipping them (just like with any model) or go elsewhere.

 

[chriscross]

I visit a number of models who are in studios. Yes, the studio takes a % of the money. Could they become independent models? One did, the others don't have living arrangements or the equipment that would let them do that. However, even though the studio takes their cut, the models are still earning more than they would doing other jobs in their cities. While there are probably some models being exploited, the reality is that the job is allowing them to pay their bills. The reality is that economic reasons "force" (makes it more financially attractive) them to cam, rather than any physical threat. You can make the choice to help then pay their bills by tipping them (just like with any model) or go elsewhere.

Good advice, thanks.

 

[Marceline]

Because I read some articles on Google from investigators who said that Russian cam girls were being exploited and having most of their profits taken from them not only by the cam page, but by their employers.

I would take most of those articles with a grain of salt. There's been a lot of them, especially recently, about how terrible and exploitative the industry is as a whole. That's not to say that exploitation doesn't exist in the adult industry, because it certainly does. However, a lot of these journalists, or wannabe journalists, embellish the truth, misrepresent facts or just straight up lie to sensationalize their story and get more views. From what I've seen, there's been few hard hitting pieces that were totally truthful, and a lot have followed suit for the views, but didn't remain as truthful. And the general public loves to eat that up so that they can use it to justify how terrible the entire industry is, and some use it to further justify their want for pornography to be banned, when it's more about their own relative morals or insecurities, rather than actually caring about the women who may actually be harmed.

I also wanted to point out that cam sites taking their percentage is not exploitative. They deserve their fair cut for what they provide.

Another point I thought might be relevant to bring up. My best friend is Russian, spent her childhood growing up there before moving to America and still has family and friends that live there, who she goes visits when she can. We've talked a good amount about how it's like in Russia, and I've asked for her opinions on some of the Russian cam model stuff that is brought up here (like studios and love cons and stuff like that). She has told me that in Russia, there's not really much of a middle class. You're either poor or rich. A lot of women, according to her, know that there's a lot of men who are really attracted to Russian beauties, and for poorer women, using their beauty to make money is their only way to get out of poverty. It's why the "Russian bride" programs started. The women who join physical studios don't have the equipment or sometimes the space to cam, so to make decent money, joining a studio is really their only option. It's better than living in poverty. I can't comment on how it's actually like in a physical studio in Russia, but the majority (I don't want to give any sort of percentage, because I honestly don't know) are women who willing started working there.

 

[chriscross]

I would take most of those articles with a grain of salt. There's been a lot of them, especially recently, about how terrible and exploitative the industry is as a whole. That's not to say that exploitation doesn't exist in the adult industry, because it certainly does. However, a lot of these journalists, or wannabe journalists, embellish the truth, misrepresent facts or just straight up lie to sensationalize their story and get more views. From what I've seen, there's been few hard hitting pieces that were totally truthful, and a lot have followed suit for the views, but didn't remain as truthful. And the general public loves to eat that up so that they can use it to justify how terrible the entire industry is, and some use it to further justify their want for pornography to be banned, when it's more about their own relative morals or insecurities, rather than actually caring about the women who may actually be harmed.

I also wanted to point out that cam sites taking their percentage is not exploitative. They deserve their fair cut for what they provide.

Another point I thought might be relevant to bring up. My best friend is Russian, spent her childhood growing up there before moving to America and still has family and friends that live there, who she goes visits when she can. We've talked a good amount about how it's like in Russia, and I've asked for her opinions on some of the Russian cam model stuff that is brought up here (like studios and love cons and stuff like that). She has told me that in Russia, there's not really much of a middle class. You're either poor or rich. A lot of women, according to her, know that there's a lot of men who are really attracted to Russian beauties, and for poorer women, using their beauty to make money is their only way to get out of poverty. It's why the "Russian bride" programs started. The women who join physical studios don't have the equipment or sometimes the space to cam, so to make decent money, joining a studio is really their only option. It's better than living in poverty. I can't comment on how it's actually like in a physical studio in Russia, but the majority (I don't want to give any sort of percentage, because I honestly don't know) are women who willing started working there.

Thank you for your response. This is why I joined this page solely to ask my question. Because I knew that I would get honest answers from people who know a lot more about the camming world that me.
I know feel that I can carry on camming with her.
Also, I don’t disagree with the sites getting a cut, I’d just prefer it if the actual model for the bigger cut, which the (now seemingly over dramatic) articles made out like they got a very small share.

 

[chriscross]

Just think about it this way. In this capitalist world we live in most people are being exploited to some degree by their employers, studio cam models are no exception. The fact is there is very little you as an individual can do about it. It's very unlikely that's she's being forced to cam.

If you don't want to tip studio models because you don't think it's justifiable that's perfectly fine, customers come and go all the time and models get used to it.

I agree, this world is far from perfect.
Again, I have zero issues with models camming from a studio as such, that would be ridiculous.
I just wrongly assumed the worst after reading the articles and so turned to people who know a lot more about it than I do.

 

[Billyboy]

FYI, I was talking to my model friend from Russia. (Background: She only just left a studio and is now independent. She was happy enough at the studio, but saved enough to get equipment to work from home.) She said that authorities closed 5 studios down in her city (I won't say which one), but her old studio is still operating. The ones affected most are the models who are suddenly out of work.

There was a link to a video about Russian studios being closed in another thread, but I'm struggling to find it.

 

[chriscross]

Yeah, I too read something about studios being shut down. It sucks that it’s putting models out of work who want to work their.

 

[AudriTwo]

Also, I don’t disagree with the sites getting a cut, I’d just prefer it if the actual model for the bigger cut, which the (now seemingly over dramatic) articles made out like they got a very small share.

if the site didn't take their share they wouldn't be able to stay operational and then no more camsites. server maintenance aint cheap.

 

[xDollPartsx]

Yeah, I too read something about studios being shut down. It sucks that it’s putting models out of work who want to work their.

If studios are being shut down, there is little other than a computer and internet connection or even a phone and internet connection(or if one is super determined filming videos on their phone and uploading using a public Wi-Fi although not advised but doable for the time being) to sign up for sites themselves and not give the studio a cut. To paint studio models as either exploited or upon studios shut down being destitute is really problematic in my opinion. I know there are exceptions and circumstances. But seeing it as just one or the other is very much an issue. Just my two cents.

 

[Billyboy]

To paint studio models as either exploited or upon studios shut down being destitute is really problematic in my opinion. I know there are exceptions and circumstances. But seeing it as just one or the other is very much an issue. Just my two cents.

What I meant is that if a model is not prepared for that, or if they lose money owing to them, then there is that ramp up time before money comes back in. The models I talk to don't have a nest egg to fall back on if they can't work. I didn't mean that they would become destitute. However I know of one model I speak to, who got evicted when she was sick and couldn't work.

 

[InannahQoH]

There was a link to a video about Russian studios being closed in another thread, but I'm struggling to find it.

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/threads/new-account-banned-for-no-reason.38854/post-1101517

 

[Derek_Zoolander]

I’m not a model but let me give you some perspective as a veteran member. I remember years ago when I first visited cam sites and still very naive. There was a site called Camsathome that had a big house in Amsterdam filled with cameras everywhere, including the bathrooms. They invited models to live in that house and work. These models were mostly Romanian and Czech. Well there was one girl I liked and she didn’t seem like the type that would do this type of job. So our conversation “naturally” gravitated toward this and I soon learned she wasn’t happy there at all. Basically I “discovered” she was there against her will and she can’t go home and don’t even have money for her ticket. I think perhaps it was even suggested the company took her passport. Well not only did this induce my sympathies, making me don that white knight armor, I went one step further and contacted the site. Well guess what? The site tells me no model is held against her will. The person who responded was the site’s owner’s wife who was a former cam model. She told me I was sold a story to garner my sympathies. She said all the girls can leave whenever they want. I don’t know the situation with your model but I would think twice before riding to her rescue.

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Not a model. Just a guy with a simple mind. You want something she's selling, she wants your money. That's it. Happens in every business. Also, she has likely set the price point of what she's selling or has willingly agreed to that. Her being exploited or not is a matter between the model and the studio owner, I guess. Unless she's being held at a gunpoint, she has the will to decide what to do or do something else, even camming at her own place, just like other models do. Not your concern. Every business works this way. Plus, you can always block certain areas/region on cb. I did. Personally, I'm a bit biased against those so called studio models but I must say it has nothing to with them.

Also, may I ask you

I already feel that I have some sort of moral responsibility towards her.

Do you believe your feelings are reciprocated, as in, do you believe she feels some sort of moral responsability towards you? Didn't read all the replies. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Smores]

But here is my dilemma.
3 of my c2c’s have been with the same Russian model who I really like.
However, I’m very observant in general and have very quickly picked up on some issues which have now led me to believe with almost certainty that she’s camming from a rented space.
Like I said, I’m new to this world and naively didn’t realise what that meant.
So I did some research and I’m now worried that she’s being exploited.
I feel that she’s only getting a very small portion of the money and I’m worried that she may even be being forced to cam.
The guilt is killing me, but I don’t care about that.
I just want to know what’s best for her.
I know I can’t ask her outright as there’ll be someone monitoring the cam and I wouldn’t want to get her into trouble.
I can tip her more, though I’m not rich and I now feel that she’ll only get a small portion of the money.
I asked her if I could c2c on Friday, but know I don’t know what to do???

Models in Eastern Europe often use studios. The studio makes half the full retail price of tokens. The model takes half of that half, so roughly 25%. It helps to use real numbers. You spend $8 to buy 100 tokens, typical discounted price. Let's call $10 the "full retail" price of the 100 tokens. If you spend 100 tokens on a model, the studio takes $5 and the model gets $2.5 of that. That is a typical arrangement. In some studios, the model can take up to 70% of the $5.

Rented rooms are common. Russia is in the early stages of a big crackdown on webcam studios. So keeping a low profile is becoming more important in Russia.

It is possible that she is being exploited, but in my experience with hundreds of Russian models that is definitely rare. You need to be really careful where you go with such thinking. The problem is the free press and governments try to sell us a political agenda of "sex industries exploit workers" as a pretext to shutting down sex industries. Never mind that the real numbers are that less than 10% are exploited. What you never read in those articles is that 90% of the workers in those industries are being empowered to use their bodies as they want to and get paid for it. If society really wanted to avoid exploitation, it would further empower sex workers with real workers rights. Society would celebrate the rights of women to make their own sexual choices, and therefore exploited workers would have a place to turn, in order to demand protection from the government and empowerment to make the decisions they want to make, without any coercion. But the truth is society has no interest in celebrating the 90%, or protecting them, or empowering them. So over and over and over we get articles and laws that falsely accuse these industries of exploitation, while implicitly ridiculing sex workers and trying to remove what little empowerment they have.

 

[chriscross]

Models in Eastern Europe often use studios. The studio makes half the full retail price of tokens. The model takes half of that half, so roughly 25%. It helps to use real numbers. You spend $8 to buy 100 tokens, typical discounted price. Let's call $10 the "full retail" price of the 100 tokens. If you spend 100 tokens on a model, the studio takes $5 and the model gets $2.5 of that. That is a typical arrangement. In some studios, the model can take up to 70% of the $5.

Rented rooms are common. Russia is in the early stages of a big crackdown on webcam studios. So keeping a low profile is becoming more important in Russia.

It is possible that she is being exploited, but in my experience with hundreds of Russian models that is definitely rare. You need to be really careful where you go with such thinking. The problem is the free press and governments try to sell us a political agenda of "sex industries exploit workers" as a pretext to shutting down sex industries. Never mind that the real numbers are that less than 10% are exploited. What you never read in those articles is that 90% of the workers in those industries are being empowered to use their bodies as they want to and get paid for it. If society really wanted to avoid exploitation, it would further empower sex workers with real workers rights. Society would celebrate the rights of women to make their own sexual choices, and therefore exploited workers would have a place to turn, in order to demand protection from the government and empowerment to make the decisions they want to make, without any coercion. But the truth is society has no interest in celebrating the 90%, or protecting them, or empowering them. So over and over and over we get articles and laws that falsely accuse these industries of exploitation, while implicitly ridiculing sex workers and trying to remove what little empowerment they have.

Thank you for your informative response.