Are all Romanian Cam Girls trust worthy –Worth Helping

[Nordling]

It's not about "doing sexual things." It's about taking time from them. Whether they're "performing" or talking to you, it's the same. Same as going into any kind of business and taking an employees time away from work. And you did say it began when you were a Basic...how did you tip her then? Congrats that you became premium and tipped something.

 

[Greggory]

That is why I said I became a premium...we talked and I liked her.

To be honest, prior to becoming premium I was just a basic to troll around MFC...not until I found someone who I actually enjoyed spending time with did I become a premium. So yes I became premium for her, and have stayed premium when I search for other people like her.

 

[Sevrin]

To paraphrase Al Capone: You can get much farther with a smile, a kind word and a tip, than you can with a smile and a kind word.

 

[Jupiter551]

There seems to be this irrelevant word "Romanian" in your question. Let's get rid of of that distraction, and then I'll try to provide a proper answer.

Actually, the question WAS the distraction :lol: There's no proper answer to give because despite the title it was simply a whine about how some chaturbate model scammed him for money

 

[ScarletVixen]

This reminds me of the South Park episode where Butters falls in love with the waitress at Hooters (or whatever they called it on the show).

Raisins

 

[LilyMarie]

This reminds me of the South Park episode where Butters falls in love with the waitress at Hooters (or whatever they called it on the show).

"HAII GUYYYS WELCOME TO RAISINS!

Boy, am I glad you guys came in. Everyone here is such a loser, but you guys seem really cool."

 

[Jupiter551]

To paraphrase Al Capone: You can get much farther with a smile, a kind word and a tip, than you can with a smile and a kind word.

yeees that's one hell of a paraphrase, but your point is a good one.

 

[Ataboy]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned, as this thread got too long very quick.

In any other profession <except when applying for entitlements> complaining about personal problems in order to make a sale would be considered unprofessional. The salesman would be laughed out of the business. Why are we trying to "help" people? Why aren't we looking at this as nothing more than a "pay-for-service" transaction? The models have a product or service..nothing more. What they do not have is a desire for a personal relationship with their CUSTOMER. If they did...we would not be CUSTOMERS....SIGH!!

 

[mynameisbob84]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned, as this thread got too long very quick.

In any other profession <except when applying for entitlements> complaining about personal problems in order to make a sale would be considered unprofessional. The salesman would be laughed out of the business. Why are we trying to "help" people? Why aren't we looking at this as nothing more than a "pay-for-service" transaction? The models have a product or service..nothing more. What they do not have is a desire for a personal relationship with their CUSTOMER. If they did...we would not be CUSTOMERS....SIGH!!

Camming really isn't like any other profession out there. I think both members and models often times want to have their cake and eat it. So to speak.

Models want members to remain mindful of boundaries and not become too attached, but they also want to be tipped sums of money greater than the sum of a private or a video, or be gifted somehing off their wishlist. Members want to be seen as more than wallets and want to get to know the models on a personal level, but don't want to hear of their financial problems or the resultant hardships. There's a happy middle ground in there somewhere but it's not always easy to find, I guess.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Ataboy wrote:
Forgive me if this has been mentioned, as this thread got too long very quick.

In any other profession <except when applying for entitlements> complaining about personal problems in order to make a sale would be considered unprofessional. The salesman would be laughed out of the business. Why are we trying to "help" people? Why aren't we looking at this as nothing more than a "pay-for-service" transaction? The models have a product or service..nothing more. What they do not have is a desire for a personal relationship with their CUSTOMER. If they did...we would not be CUSTOMERS....SIGH!!


Camming really isn't like any other profession out there. I think both members and models often times want to have their cake and eat it. So to speak.

Models want members to remain mindful of boundaries and not become too attached, but they also want to be tipped sums of money greater than the sum of a private or a video, or be gifted somehing off their wishlist. Members want to be seen as more than wallets and want to get to know the models on a personal level, but don't want to hear of their financial problems or the resultant hardships. There's a happy middle ground in there somewhere but it's not always easy to find, I guess.

Personally I absolutely hate it when members treat every communication with me like they're making a transaction with a large company. If we're talking about things like regular videos and merchandise, then yes those can be spoken about as products, but when we're talking about shows, custom vids, requests etc, although I will do certain acts for tokens, my body is still not a product to be sold, it is my body, it is very personal, and because is isn't an inanimate object it means it is fickle and cannot be controlled.

I also hate it when members seem to think that because when they make purchases from large companies they offer all sorts of refunds, reimbursements, and the customer is always right etc that they should be treated as such on a camsite. Fact is, those companies are large companies selling many products, their prices account for those who ask for refunds, steal, or for items that break etc. They're making many many sales and it doesn't effect them having that customer service.
Think of a camgirl more as say... an artist. Whether someone's a musician, or a painter, or anything, they are their work, they have no workers, it is just them creating what they need to create. And people will go to them asking for xyz, and they'll pay first. As much as they'll work with whoever has paid for a product, if the person then decides they don't like the product, the artist won't start over and make something else for free, and they won't reimburse that person either. They've done the work. It would be cruel to expect someone to do work for you and then not want to pay them for it because you're not totally happy or were expecting something else.

As for personal relationships with customers... Well, I've been to many businesses, bars for example, where you often make friends with the people working there, and they talk about xyz about work and such. In fact, most businesses I go to that I pay for things I much prefer the person behind the till being real rather than just a company robot. There is a line when they shouldn't be making you feel like you should give them money because of their dire situation, but I don't mind them having a little complain about how busy it is/how hot it is/how they're looking forward to going home. I wouldn't even mind if I got into conversation with someone them sharing something about their real life.

I think camgirls who are as soulless as most companies are, although they'd be professional, would not have nearly the same appeal. Be careful what you wish for. I see camming "customers" as more of mutually beneficial friends. I do sell products, but for the most part I'm selling my time, my attention, and a window for someone to become a small part of my world.

This is not something that can ever be dealt with in the same way as trying to buy an inanimate object, and would any of you really wish for that? I mean sure, many camgirls can be very unprofessional, but most guys approaching camgirls are wanting a very unprofessional relationship. As Bob said, members and models want to have their cake and eat it too. Models want friends who are cool, ask little of them yet give them lots of tokens, and Members want models who become really close to them, get personal with them, do extras that show they think about them when tokens aren't involved, talk to them about personal things, but nothing that makes them feel guilted into spending, and they also want them to be really professional and have a professional relationship whenever they want to buy something, but then instantly go back to being all chilled and realistic. It's a tough act....

 

[zippypinhead]

Think of a camgirl more as say... an artist. Whether someone's a musician, or a painter, or anything, they are their work, they have no workers, it is just them creating what they need to create. And people will go to them asking for xyz, and they'll pay first. As much as they'll work with whoever has paid for a product, if the person then decides they don't like the product, the artist won't start over and make something else for free, and they won't reimburse that person either. They've done the work. It would be cruel to expect someone to do work for you and then not want to pay them for it because you're not totally happy or were expecting something else.

I don't like this analogy. That's not the typical method by which freelance creative work gets done in the professional realm. Artists -- at least smart artists who know what they are doing -- take commission work with half the asking price for the service paid up front to cover costs and half paid upon delivery. Most freelance gigs -- certainly every serious gig I have ever had in my fifteen-year career as an artist -- comes with a certain allowance for revision by the commissioner. It's also a less lonely job than you would expect, especially on the commercial side of things. You work with the client, and if you ever expect to keep working, you do everything in your power to see that they come away happy. That means collaboration, or at least providing a sense of collaboration with those who are paying you. It also means that you are often working in teams with other artists or artisans or subcontracting others to see that the work is done right.

I have never ever produced a first pass at a project and had a person say, "perfect, here's your money!" I have never ever had a client give me all the money up front and just trust that I'd get it right the first time, or tough shit for them. In fact, I would never (ever, ever, ever) ask for full payment up front. What would stop me from getting the check, cashing it, and moving to Mexico? As a paying client, it is absolutely fair to expect to get what you want and what you are paying for. It is not professional for a person to act like a client is being unfair for coming into the transaction with those minimum expectations. It's part of the life of the freelancer. It's not even in the fine print; it's in the big print, bolded and underlined, at the top of the first page of the welcome packet artists receive when they get out of art school. Artists who wave their hands dismissively and proclaim, "I'm an artist!" when asked to behave responsibly do not get to work as artists for very long. In that, I suspect artists and models are similar. We get enough threads around here featuring folks who are livid that they paid for something and didn't get it, that it should be pretty clear to any model that the minimum of professional conduct is still expected of them.

That isn't to say that I am not picking up what you're laying down. One of the reasons why I'm constantly spouting off about the creative rights of models is because I know full well what it is to be creatively self-employed. I know what it is to deal with dicks who undervalue your services, fail to take you seriously, and don't want to pay you for the work that you're doing. I actually envy that models can take advantage of the horny impulse buy, and are able to be paid in full up front for a lot of what they provide. It's a luxury I wish I could afford to demand as an artist. However, as your description obviously illustrates, it definitely leads to a misconception about how creative services work. The way that cam modeling and art are related is that -- and you are absolutely right in this -- the trade is for the service, not the product, even if a product is produced at the end of the day. However, that's where your work diverts from other creative freelance work because most of us don't get paid in full until the work is done. I know there's lot of romance tied into the idea of artists as lonely, sensitive, creative souls, who are their work, but in reality, it's a lot more mercenary than we would have you believe.

 

[Sevrin]

Most artists also don't have any protections like "tips are gifts" to give them an out in case they don't deliver. If they don't complete their work as agreed, you can sue them. Other than private shows, models are shielded by MFC from any liability via the "tips are gifts" caveat. Add to that the stigma that "having to pay for intimate services" carries with it, unlike the commissioning of a painting or piece of music, the member looks like an ungrateful and presumptuous sucker, should he wish to make a complaint.

Models, on the other hand, have no organization that would allow them to police or set standards for their profession. Add to that the lack of recourse, with the resulting ill-feeling that creates, and models are probably the biggest victims of their fellows who behave in a manner that brings their trade into disrepute.

The biggest problem is, however, that the desire for intimacy is insatiable. We see that in our real-life relationships. The hole is simply too big to be completely filled by any one person. A cam model who becomes the focus of a member's infatuation will never be able to meet that member's desire for intimacy entirely, no matter what.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

One of the main ways it has to differ from any other profession is that I as a model have personally never scammed anyone. Yet every few hours I come on cam I will get at least 5 guys trying to scam me. Sometimes small scams, like trying to get me to do stuff for tokens and promising they'll tip me, sometimes slightly bigger ones, like sending an mfc mail claiming they've bought videos, and sometimes it's the guys trying to get me to go Skype for paypal, which for the most part are scammers. Even trusted regulars, or members I've dealt with many times if I give them a product first simply won't tip afterwards, they'll assume I gave it to them as a freebie and don't reward it. Just like it's tempting for a model to not do a show when it's already been paid for, it's even more tempting for a member to get a show and not pay for it afterwards. With models we get harassed, reported, having members go on and on about it and such, it messes up our reputation. With members, even members who are really active on Mfc and claim they care about models often just leave without a second thought, they're anonymous, the worst that'll happen is they'll get banned by the model pretty much.

Personally I've been late delivering shows (though as much as the members receiving the shows probably don't believe I've actually had legit reasons for not being able to perform them), I haven't offered refunds, though I have offered videos and have given extra time/attention (which always seems to go un-noted), even so, I am sure many members would like me to jump through hoops in attempts to please them when I don't perform a show very quickly after they drop tokens on me, this is something I haven't done, and won't do. To me when someone tips for a show (unless I stated before they tipped), they get put in line for my next available time to be able to do a show. At that time there may be several others in line and not many time slots to fill, so yes, queuing sucks, but like it's something you need to accept would happen if you say went to a busy theme park... it's also something that members who want shows from me need to accept before they buy them. The reason they need to accept it is that I make very little income off those sorts of shows. The bulk of my income is elsewhere, I don't need the tokens that the shows provide. It's nice compensation for time, and if I'm having trouble making goals then they're great, but really I only do them because a few regulars I care about like doing them. I'd much prefer to be all on site, no custom vids, no Skype, just camming, earning, then going off site and not have to worry about much. Because of this, those who buy them need to bear in mind they are not top priority. Frustrating I am sure to members who want to go Skype with me, but jesus, if they care that much about having me one on one in a timely manner then they should just take me private instead, and maybe actually stick around for a few moments after I've cum rather than going private, letting me cum and then disappearing straight after, or worse not even waiting for me to finish and going soon as they've finished. I don't really mind most guys doing that, but if it's people who I do Skype with and always stay on and chat to for ages it's kind of a slap in the face that they don't do the same for me, even if just for a few extra minutes.

 

[rwesmill]

Most artists also don't have any protections like "tips are gifts" to give them an out in case they don't deliver. If they don't complete their work as agreed, you can sue them. Other than private shows, models are shielded by MFC from any liability via the "tips are gifts" caveat. Add to that the stigma that "having to pay for intimate services" carries with it, unlike the commissioning of a painting or piece of music, the member looks like an ungrateful and presumptuous sucker, should he wish to make a complaint.

Models, on the other hand, have no organization that would allow them to police or set standards for their profession. Add to that the lack of recourse, with the resulting ill-feeling that creates, and models are probably the biggest victims of their fellows who behave in a manner that brings their trade into disrepute.

The biggest problem is, however, that the desire for intimacy is insatiable. We see that in our real-life relationships. The hole is simply too big to be completely filled by any one person. A cam model who becomes the focus of a member's infatuation will never be able to meet that member's desire for intimacy entirely, no matter what.

Very well stated.

I honestly do not see how models can be 'excluded' from the typical workings of freelance or 'professional' behavior in general just because they are 'cam models.' If they advertise a service or product, they should understand that with that offer comes a level of responsibility and accountability on their part to ensure the stated product is delivered in a manner acceptable to the end user. If they know that they have a whacky schedule or that it may not quite fit into their daily grind, then they should not offer the service, for it can create a very sticky situation where excuses get tossed around and feelings get hurt.

If anything, cam models have a MUCH greater sense of leeway due to the lack of camsite regulations regarding offering items or services (this includes skypes, raffles, prizes etc). What other profession do you know where a freelancer can get away with offering an item or prize and has absolutely zero recourse should they not deliver?

I have personally heard of models even offering trip raffle prizes with tens of thousands of dollars worth of participants, only to have a stealth/pimp/studio boss account mysteriously 'win' it in the end. Or simply never having the raffle and moving on like nothing happened.

Again, burden of proof lies with the members, and there's nothing they can really do but blame themselves for putting their trust in an individual for having a fair shot.


Let me put it to you this way, if a freelance computer repair technician offered his services on craigslist, and you pay him for his services upfront...he is obligated to make scheduling arrangements asap to ensure his client knows exactly when to expect his computer to be fixed, so that they are on the same page. There are models out there who will offer skype shows up front and not even take the time to try and schedule the session with the member, and get offended when the member tries to contact them to do so.

I think some models tend to have a hard time separating cam modeling from reality. Just because this is the 'internet,' and an 'adult oriented site,' nonetheless...does not mean you should be excluded from the universal codes of self accountability and general morality.

It irks me to no end when people are flaky, regardless of online or offline. You are only as good as your word...and if your word holds no weight, then you should not take the opportunity to speak.

 

[LadyLuna]

At the same time, we can provide everything the customer requested and it still be considered "not good enough". There have been times where I bent over backwards to try to make a customer happy and they claimed they had been "cheated".

And then there are the customers who, when the unexpected comes up and you can't do what was promised, will not accept any offer for how to make it up.

 

[UncleThursday]

Sorry to hear my man, but you got played and used as a 'sugar daddy,' or 'white knight' as they refer to them in many U.S. cam circles.

There is a difference between sugar daddies and white knights.

Sugar daddies are the guys who throw massive tips, gifts, etc. to the girl with some expectation of something in return. It's actually much more common in real life, but it happens in camming, too. However, in camming, it is a bit more stupid on the sugar daddy's part; because in 99.9999999999999% of the cases, the model he is showering with money and gifts will never even meet him, let alone do anything sexual IRL with him. At least the girls IRL who look for sugar daddies give some sort of physical sexual reciprocation for the money and gifts.

An example of a model with a sugar daddy is a model I used to perv hardcore. I thought she disappeared until I was up late one night. She still logs in every day, but goes true private right away, stays in there for an hour or so, then logs right off. Her camscore has gone 5 digits because of this, and she makes a decent chunk every day for where she lives (eastern EU). At least $240 a day, for an hour or so of work. Actually, fuck it, that's good money pretty much anywhere. $240 per hour is lawyer money.

White knights come in a few different forms.

There's the ones who try to 'save' girls from the obviously bad lifestyle they are living by getting nude online... and actually expect these girls to fall in love with them and shower them with real life sexual pleasure and such.

Then there's the white knights that staunchly defend their favorite model(s) no matter what she does and put her (them) on a pedestal so high, even God couldn't reach her.

<incoming hyperbole infested typing>Some former nude models have guys like this... when others bring up that the model used to do nude, they jump all over him, saying she has never done it, she would never degrade herself like the other models on the site (they might even use the term whores to describe the nude models, even though they will often be fapping to those nude models all the time), etc. These guys actively search known forum and tube sites where cappers post vids of models on them, looking for their chosen favorite to let her know (but all the other models be damned, they chose that filthy lifestyle by not being as good as their perfect goddess!) that the degenerate perverts have posted videos of her. If someone makes any comment that doesn't conform to the worship and praise they know she deserves, they shower her with tips and consolation, informing her of how perfect she is and that the other dude is just some degenerate who lives in his mom's basement and jerks off to pictures of Barbie dolls.<end hyperbole infested typing>

Seriously, some of them are as bad as the religious nuts who do sermons on the evils of pornography, but who watch it every waking moment just so they can be knowledgable about how sick and disgusting it is. They watch more porn than anyone on the planet.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I just want to point out that listening to a girl complain about her problems and giving her money to fix them, is actually a fetish. Sugar Daddys, Brats, Financial domination. They are all actual sexual fetishes and even though it may be an attitude frowned on by most models and members, their are members who are looking for specifically that and nothing else.

If you get sucked into this type of relationship, chances are you have a tinge of this fetish because any sane and awake person without the fetish would not have participated... therefor, service was rendered.
You got what you were looking for, which was attention while getting to feel like you were "taking care" of a beautiful woman who "needed" you.

Not my thing yo, but it IS a thing and it's probably best that you recognize this now and establish ground rules for yourself if you are going to continue visiting cam sites because you'll likely be drawn to this type again.

 

[zippypinhead]

I'll admit that part of the reason why I like associating with cam models is the monetary aspect. I do get a little bit of a thrill from being able to give money and gifts, and have them graciously accepted. If I could afford it, I could see myself as a sugar daddy.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I'll admit that part of the reason why I like associating with cam models is the monetary aspect. I do get a little bit of a thrill from being able to give money and gifts, and have them graciously accepted. If I could afford it, I could see myself as a sugar daddy.

FINALLY! Someone gets why the hell I'm going back to college for a petroleum engineering degree!!! :lol:

 

[JoleneBrody]

I'll admit that part of the reason why I like associating with cam models is the monetary aspect. I do get a little bit of a thrill from being able to give money and gifts, and have them graciously accepted. If I could afford it, I could see myself as a sugar daddy.

FINALLY! Someone gets why the hell I'm going back to college for a petroleum engineering degree!!! :lol:

BITCHES!!!!!!!

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I'll admit that part of the reason why I like associating with cam models is the monetary aspect. I do get a little bit of a thrill from being able to give money and gifts, and have them graciously accepted. If I could afford it, I could see myself as a sugar daddy.

FINALLY! Someone gets why the hell I'm going back to college for a petroleum engineering degree!!! :lol:

BITCHES!!!!!!!

When it comes right down to it, ain't it always? :whistle:

 

[rwesmill]

At the same time, we can provide everything the customer requested and it still be considered "not good enough". There have been times where I bent over backwards to try to make a customer happy and they claimed they had been "cheated".

And then there are the customers who, when the unexpected comes up and you can't do what was promised, will not accept any offer for how to make it up.

Totally agree. But I think it all stems back to an open line of communication, and setting clear terms and guidelines. I think this bodes well to a favorable outcome in almost any informal or formal business setting.

I am especially gravitated towards the models who have room topics such as 'please pm before private,' as they'd like to know exactly what the user wants up front and if she can or cannot fulfill requests ahead of time so it gives you the option of whether you'd like to spend your hard earned tokens or proceed elsewhere. Many of the models I regularly cam with will even go out of their way and buy certain minor clothing requests for a private session without asking for a single additional token out of me. Of course I will adamently insist I pay for it, but they simply refuse to accept. I think they know in the long term, this is a much better financial strategy, as they're earning 'lifetime' customers, and not just the '10 minute one-hitter- quitters.'

Regarding life or personal situations coming up, those will always inevitably occur. But again, the line of communication is most essential. If a model suddenly disappears for days or weeks on end without a single pm or mfc mail regarding a delay on a promised service due to unexpected hiccup, then that's just bad business, period.

Barring it's some life threatening situation where they are unable to get to a computer, then I'd assume if a model is able to carry on regular personal email/social media responsibilities, etc...then she has a 1 or 2 minutes to jot a quick message and let her customer know what the deal is.

I can't fathom any situation (short of life threatening) where NOT giving an update to someone you had a promised previous arrangement is acceptable. This is the definition of flaky, point blank period.

Girls who cam should, in my eyes, treat it as they would a normal profession when it comes to personal conduct. Having a sense of personal organization, whether it be a txt notepad or excel spreadsheet, of promised skypes/custom photosets/videos along with promised deadlines should be the least a model does to put effort into her craft. It should not be a situation of a member having to 'remind' a model at a later date that she still has not fulfilled her obligations if a deadline has passed. That is my take, but again, some mdoels may not take their craft as seriously, or feel that the level of self accountability should not translate equally in a free reign online setting.

Last thing I will say is that models should NOT over extend themselves. Many models actually do this knowingly when they are rushing desperately to fill an end-of-the-pay-period quota. Not cool, no bueno, no capiche. Offer whatever gifts, skypes, or raffles you want...but if you already know you're doing it for a quick buck with no real intentions in following through, then to hell with you.

Sure there are members that may have overly unrealistic expectations of models, but on the flip side of the coin, many models may put underwhelming value on the tokens or generosity shown by tipping members to the point of self-entitlement and; as a result, lack of proper effort.

The 2000 tokens someone spent on a custom video may only have a quantitative value of $100 once it hits a models bank account, but the time and effort that member may have put to accrue that amount of money (be it slaving away at a 9 to 5 job or just hustling his/her ass off) is something that can't always be measured.