ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[Jupiter551]

So...how 'bout them candidates?

 

[Nordling]

The LOCAL courts ruled there was no law to uphold the lawsuit, period.

SCOTUS had NOTHING to do with it.

Fox company supplied the lawyers to defend their client and uphold the law. Fox is a lot more than just news in case you weren't aware. They have their own local stations all over the states that host local news along with some great TV shows.

The FOX news I and others have been talking about is the CABLE NEWS stations. One local Tampa station's actions does not mean that Fox cable news lies or all news stations lie.

:lol: No, it doesn't but Fox does.

 

[Bocefish]

So...how 'bout them candidates?

Same old rhetoric, but Obama looked a little desperate to me.

LovelyLemon's Tweets were by far the best part of the debate.

 

[Bocefish]

The LOCAL courts ruled there was no law to uphold the lawsuit, period.

SCOTUS had NOTHING to do with it.

Fox company supplied the lawyers to defend their client and uphold the law. Fox is a lot more than just news in case you weren't aware. They have their own local stations all over the states that host local news along with some great TV shows.

The FOX news I and others have been talking about is the CABLE NEWS stations. One local Tampa station's actions does not mean that Fox cable news lies or all news stations lie.

:lol: No, it doesn't but Fox does.

I guess that means you're a liar too then.

 

[Nordling]

The LOCAL courts ruled there was no law to uphold the lawsuit, period.

SCOTUS had NOTHING to do with it.

Fox company supplied the lawyers to defend their client and uphold the law. Fox is a lot more than just news in case you weren't aware. They have their own local stations all over the states that host local news along with some great TV shows.

The FOX news I and others have been talking about is the CABLE NEWS stations. One local Tampa station's actions does not mean that Fox cable news lies or all news stations lie.

:lol: No, it doesn't but Fox does.

I guess that means you're a liar too then.

Your logic is very odd, it doesn't seem to relate to anything. Well, unless you just want to be insulting for shits and giggles. Have fun.

 

[Bocefish]

The LOCAL courts ruled there was no law to uphold the lawsuit, period.

SCOTUS had NOTHING to do with it.

Fox company supplied the lawyers to defend their client and uphold the law. Fox is a lot more than just news in case you weren't aware. They have their own local stations all over the states that host local news along with some great TV shows.

The FOX news I and others have been talking about is the CABLE NEWS stations. One local Tampa station's actions does not mean that Fox cable news lies or all news stations lie.

:lol: No, it doesn't but Fox does.

I guess that means you're a liar too then.

Your logic is very odd, it doesn't seem to relate to anything. Well, unless you just want to be insulting for shits and giggles. Have fun.

[Because of the lack of credibility, the telling of legal lies (Fox won a SCOTUS case to be able to lie legally), it simply tells us that the average Fox viewer is a niche in the population with lousy ability to discern quality, credibility, and facts.

Odd logic?

Could lying about a court case, blowing it up to be U.S. Supreme Court case by saying "Fox won a SCOTUS case to be able to lie legally" when it was nothing of the sort be a possible reason to lose credibility? Does that really give you credibility implying Fox viewers have a lousy ability to discern quality, credibility, and facts?

Odd logic indeed.

 

[MrRodry]

So...how 'bout them candidates?

I liked the debate, Obama looked alive and was incisive in his answers. Romney blinked a lot (I tried to count how many times he blinked at his closing comments but I lost it) and displayed this old "Sheriff of the World" line of thought.

 

[Jupiter551]

I haven't watched this debate yet...but what I didn't get in the last one (and I heard china was still a topic for this one) was Romney's declaration that China cheats on currency rates, in order to get favourable exports. He implied he'd get that changed (though how, one might ask), thereby...what? Getting companies like walmart to stop employing Chinese workers? Well yeah maybe, but they won't be moving it back to the US they'll go find labour in India or some other developing country where they can pay someone 20c/hour. A lot of those favourable rate imports are products American companies like Walmart have made overseas because it's cheaper lol. If Walmart had to compete in a US labour market they would go under, they're used to virtual slave labour. Walmart going under wouldn't help the economy, or the job rate, even if they are unprincipled assholes.

Anyway, I just don't see what would be to gain from souring trade with China.

 

[mynameisbob84]

LovelyLemon's Tweets were by far the best part of the debate.

Learning that Lovely Lemon has a twitter feed is by far the best thing to come out of this thread :-D

 

[Nordling]

The LOCAL courts ruled there was no law to uphold the lawsuit, period.

SCOTUS had NOTHING to do with it.

Fox company supplied the lawyers to defend their client and uphold the law. Fox is a lot more than just news in case you weren't aware. They have their own local stations all over the states that host local news along with some great TV shows.

The FOX news I and others have been talking about is the CABLE NEWS stations. One local Tampa station's actions does not mean that Fox cable news lies or all news stations lie.

:lol: No, it doesn't but Fox does.

I guess that means you're a liar too then.

Your logic is very odd, it doesn't seem to relate to anything. Well, unless you just want to be insulting for shits and giggles. Have fun.

[Because of the lack of credibility, the telling of legal lies (Fox won a SCOTUS case to be able to lie legally), it simply tells us that the average Fox viewer is a niche in the population with lousy ability to discern quality, credibility, and facts.

Odd logic?

Could lying about a court case, blowing it up to be U.S. Supreme Court case by saying "Fox won a SCOTUS case to be able to lie legally" when it was nothing of the sort be a possible reason to lose credibility? Does that really give you credibility implying Fox viewers have a lousy ability to discern quality, credibility, and facts?

Odd logic indeed.

Being wrong is not the same as lying. Although the case did not make it to the US Supreme Court, my original contention is still true. And I'm still surprised you hadn't heard about that story before. There's a reason btw, that the plaintiffs never got to the Supreme Court...it is likely the high court would not hear the case, since it may endanger the so-called false "corporate personhood" precedent. Thom Hartmann explains it much better:

 

[JickyJuly]

The debates have made it impossible for me to stomach either candidate.

LovelyLemon's Tweets were by far the best part of the debate.

THIS.

The problem is cable TV news is pretty much the equivalent of Kiss's musical talent, so the crazy a costumes and lasers that Kiss use to do make it a better show.

I love me some toned down KISS. Though their faces do look a little better covered. I'll just use this chance to share an irrelevant video of my favorite KISS song.

 

[Bocefish]

As far as the debates go, it's all about the undecided voters now. A lot of people think Obama won the debate but still believe Romney's better for the country's economy. Here's some of the undecided points of view from both MSNBC & Fox.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ebate.html

http://nation.foxnews.com/2012-presiden ... near-brawl

 

[Bocefish]

Forgot to add the CBS focus group of undecideds from OHIO where 75% of the undecided are now voting for Romney.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _ohio.html

 

[Nordling]

Forgot to add the CBS focus group of undecideds from OHIO where 75% of the undecided are now voting for Romney.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _ohio.html

Ha! A small group of mostly middle aged white men...yeah, that's a TELL.

 

[Bocefish]

Forgot to add the CBS focus group of undecideds from OHIO where 75% of the undecided are now voting for Romney.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _ohio.html

Ha! A small group of mostly middle aged white men...yeah, that's a TELL.

If you don't like the facts, then you blame the source, or just plain lie to spin it somehow.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE MIDDLE AGED WHITE MEN!

 

[Shaun__]

Forgot to add the CBS focus group of undecideds from OHIO where 75% of the undecided are now voting for Romney.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _ohio.html

Ha! A small group of mostly middle aged white men...yeah, that's a TELL.

If you don't like the facts, then you blame the source, or just plain lie to spin it somehow.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE MIDDLE AGED WHITE MEN!

It is possible that this particular group is a bit undersized to be considered as an adequate representation of anything.

 

[Nordling]

Yes, a group that small shows nothing--hell, since HALF the women voted each way, we can call it a tie? Or, conversely, can we say that ALL white men vote Republican?

 

[Bocefish]

That's why I posted all the focus groups I could find and they ALL pretty much say the same thing. The undecided voter momentum has been swinging towards Romney since the first debate and with just two weeks to go with no more debates, it's just about impossible to turn that around.

I also found it rather interesting that Obama suddenly felt the need to print a 20 page handbook about his so-called plan for a second term. Maybe if he spent some of his campaign actually talking about his plan, he wouldn't have to print 3.5 million copies of it 2 weeks before the election. :lol: Makes him look even more desperate.

 

[Jupiter551]

Forgot to add the CBS focus group of undecideds from OHIO where 75% of the undecided are now voting for Romney.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... _ohio.html

Ha! A small group of mostly middle aged white men...yeah, that's a TELL.

If you don't like the facts, then you blame the source, or just plain lie to spin it somehow.

LOOK AT ALL THOSE MIDDLE AGED WHITE MEN!

all the white dudes + 2 of their wives = 75% :lol:

 

[Jupiter551]

I also found it rather interesting that Obama suddenly felt the need to print a 20 page handbook about his so-called plan for a second term. Maybe if he spent some of his campaign actually talking about his plan, he wouldn't have to print 3.5 million copies of it 2 weeks before the election. :lol: Makes him look even more desperate.

I think it'd be nice if all candidates did this, half the time you can't tell if ANY of them have any specific policies, they just wave vague rhetoric around. The Republican camp is at LEAST as guilty of this as Obama.

 

[Shaun__]

I also found it rather interesting that Obama suddenly felt the need to print a 20 page handbook about his so-called plan for a second term. Maybe if he spent some of his campaign actually talking about his plan, he wouldn't have to print 3.5 million copies of it 2 weeks before the election. :lol: Makes him look even more desperate.

The old white guys I work with love Fox news, and so I am on occasion blessed with a chance to hear Mitt tell us his plans for the future. My favorite time was when he said he was going to cut taxes when elected, but the cuts would be revenue neutral due to the closing of undisclosed loop holes to be determined by congress. The best part was when he said small business owners would use the extra money given to them by the revenue neutral tax cuts to hire more people.

They only way they could have more money with a revenue neutral tax cut is if another group was paying more to make up the difference. The three groups you can really pick from are the poor, the middle class, and the rich. Romney is rich, and it is unlikely he would raise his own taxes. The poor have no money to take, since they are poor and stuff. That pretty much leaves the middle class like me and the people I work with.

Sometimes telling people your plans can hinder your election results, but thankfully most people do not actually pay attention to what politicians say.

 

[Just Me]

As far as the debates go, it's all about the undecided voters now. A lot of people think Obama won the debate but still believe Romney's better for the country's economy. Here's some of the undecided points of view from both MSNBC & Fox.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ebate.html

http://nation.foxnews.com/2012-presiden ... near-brawl

I feel if you are undecided at this late date, you are either willfully uninformed or an idiot. I also leave open the possibility that the undecided voters that show up on the TV shows are just attention whores or wanting to look smart by not deciding until the last moment. The debates, in their current form, should not change anyone's mind or make up their mind. The debates are such non debates it is laughable. Both sides willingly overstate and misinform it is not any different than their speeches to partisan crowds, except you might get interrupted by the other guy. http://factcheck.org/2012/10/false-claims-in-final-debate/ Most if not all the information you need to figure out who you should vote for has been out there for many months if not years.

As to people believing that Romney or the republicans are better for the economy, they do not have history on their side.

 

[Nordling]

How do we arrive at our political orientations...not sure...but this TED video gives a lot of glimpses into how different people arrive at their opinions.

 

[schlmoe]

I feel if you are undecided at this late date, you are either willfully uninformed or an idiot.

That's a little harsh. Right or wrong, I submit that there is room for a few more options: I personally know many people that are 100% apolitical. Don't know/don't care. Their ears may only perk up when their "hot button issue" comes up. Maybe it's abortion, gun control, social security, etc. It very well may be that on their "hot button issue" the candidates are too close to tell which one is better. I'm not talking about people who actively read up on these topics, but somebody who just now realized their issue may be at risk.

Then you have a pretty large segment who have never voted. People who were in high school during the last election, the ones who have turned 18 in the last 4+ years. Not every HS/College student attends a "Rock the Vote" concert. Realistically, they're going from only thinking about dating/music/video games to engaging in the political process. That 0-60 time is going to be pretty slow for some of them.

I also leave open the possibility that the undecided voters that show up on the TV shows are just attention whores or wanting to look smart by not deciding until the last moment.

Agree, but don't discount the red herring/shill factor either

The debates, in their current form, should not change anyone's mind or make up their mind. The debates are such non debates it is laughable. Both sides willingly overstate and misinform it is not any different than their speeches to partisan crowds, except you might get interrupted by the other guy.

Yep, I posted that here about a week before the "debates" started. I usually just read the debate transcripts. I'm not interested in who had the best eye-roll moment, and would rather get an unemotional view of what was said...if that's possible.

http://factcheck.org/2012/10/false-claims-in-final-debate/ Most if not all the information you need to figure out who you should vote for has been out there for many months if not years.

As to people believing that Romney or the republicans are better for the economy, they do not have history on their side.

Yeah, but a lot the people you are addressing aren't going to go that far. More's the pity

 

[Bocefish]

This could get interesting...

 

[mynameisbob84]

Haha. Oh, Trump, you penis. :lol:

 

[Kradek]

I predict the popular vote will be near 50/50 and the next four years will not be substantially different than the last four, no matter who you vote for.

 

[Mirra]

With how vehemently my state seems to dislike Obama, I wonder if there will be higher voter turn out this year than in 2008... or if it will be about the same because my state is considered a red state de facto. Our turnout in 2008 was 75.63% of registered voters. I was surprised to find that over 56% of SC voters in 2008 were women. I thought it would be a bit closer to equal... say 52/48. Not 56/44.

Oh well. I'm ready for it to be over with. I am concerned about how it will end up but am so tired of wondering. All these constant polls this way and that way are just getting to hurt my brain. ><

Speaking of polls, I've never been hit by any of those polls. Not even an exit poll after voting has ever caught me. I guess maybe it's more common in battle ground states?

 

[Kradek]

Speaking of polls, I've never been hit by any of those polls. Not even an exit poll after voting has ever caught me. I guess maybe it's more common in battle ground states?

Napkin math time!

Gallup polls are typically 1000 people. 300,000,000 people in the USA. Let's say there's a poll every day and they all use different people every time, so 365,000 people polled.

Chance for you to be polled: 365,000 / 300,000,000 = ~.0012. Twelve thousandths of a percent.

 

[LadyLuna]

What does he mean by "passport information"?

Does he want to know everywhere Obama has traveled during his presidency, everywhere Obama has traveled during his life, or is this about where his passport was issued, what he is listed as being, and what his personal information (like birthday and such) is?

I can understanding wanting to know what the President has done with his time while he is President, but as to the rest of what it might show, why is that even relevant?

EDIT cause I finally finished watching that Ted Talk

So, reminding people that they need to wash their hands makes them more likely to vote Republican, and the elections are held in the middle of flu season when we're all being told we need to wash our hands. Also, as flu season approaches, more and more people are thinking about voting for Romney than Obama.

Wow.