What do you consider successful?

[curvyredhead]

Re: tic tac toe about you being a model or not

If you're not a verified model on this site, then i'm going to have to operate on the assumption that you're not.

I'm going to go with the assumption that she is a model who doesn't want her name tied to the nasty things she's saying. (Side note: Being able to say what you want with alot of anonymity is what made another forum so unpleasant to be in, because girls would say whatever they want and not risk making themselves actually look bad in camland.)

This is a pretty pussy move.

 

[TicTacToe]

Hey TicTac, do you consider mfc a porn site?

I assume this is an inside joke, but if my memory serves correctly you had your fair share of controversy on these forums calling models out on their public library shows. You had an unpopular -yet valid- opinion on them. Offended models made it rain shit on you regardless.

 

[LilyMarie]

Hey TicTac, do you consider mfc a porn site?

I assume this is an inside joke, but if my memory serves correctly you had your fair share of controversy on these forums calling models out on their public library shows. You had an unpopular -yet valid- opinion on them. Offended models made it rain shit on you regardless.

:shock:
I think you're seriously only making things worse right now.

 

[SoTxBob]

It's been kind of touched on but since I saw a rather lengthy discussion last week in 10K, I thought it might also be fodder for chat here. The chat was about a model that finishes, on a regular basis, in top 15. She was literally pissed [on the 3rd of the month] that her guys weren't tipping the hell out of her. Mind you, she'd just had another payday of [conservatively stated to not point her out] 35k. While some were marveling at how someone as successful as she was could be "broke" so fast [part of her ranting on cam], others called her actions extremely greedy and spoiled. A lot said 'ungrateful' and weren't going to go back to her room any more.
That got me wondering about the success aspect and how it varies so widely between you ladies. I pop in here today and I see this thread.
Most of the models I know are of the views, pay the bills and have a bit extra for fun and a vacation every so often, and you're doing well. I suppose tho that when anyone is used to a certain income over time, their spending habits and expectations can change drastically. From a personal observation, I look at so many of my younger model friends and acquaintances and see the money dribbling through their hands like water. It makes me sad that they will have the dilemma one day of no more fun cam income and the realization that the saving/investing for the future part should have outweighed the spending part of the success equation.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I agree with SoTxBob and want to add a bit.

I'm not going to be one to say how anyone should spend money, but I think many camgirls do go into camming without thinking about these things: Paying the bills, extra spending for "fun", groceries, taxes, (because camsites don't take out taxes), extra money as retirement (unless the camgirl wants to explain what her job experience was for those years...this is of course assuming she doesn't have a 2nd job).

Does she say she was unemployed, or simply tell her employer, and risk the chance of others at her new job (assuming she gets hired) harassing her for her previous employment decisions.

Personally, I don't spend a lot due to these things. I love camming and want it to pay for my school, and eventually have a nice nest egg through it. I do have another job, since camming isn't quite to that level for me yet. If I do get to a point where I can do all that simply through camming, then I will consider that as successful.

 

[mynameisbob84]

The chat was about a model that finishes, on a regular basis, in top 15. She was literally pissed [on the 3rd of the month] that her guys weren't tipping the hell out of her. Mind you, she'd just had another payday of [conservatively stated to not point her out] 35k. While some were marveling at how someone as successful as she was could be "broke" so fast [part of her ranting on cam], others called her actions extremely greedy and spoiled.

I reckon things like Miss MFC are partly to blame for this kinda phenomenon. I guess that competition makes it easier for models (or anyone, really) to lose sight of the bigger picture. They become so focused on a goal that ultimately means very little next to things like continued financial security, quality of life, mental wellbeing, etc. etc. that it threatens to consume them and in (thankfully rare) instances like the one above, makes them behave like some greedy, spoiled, ingrate when things don't go their way.

Miss MFC, for all its positives, has contributed to a culture where a model can bust her ass for a month straight, make an outrageous amount of money (maybe even more than they were expecting to make at the beginning of the month), be spoiled by their regulars every day they logged on (and even the days they didn't), and still come out of that month disappointed that there were 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 models that just happened to do a little bit better than them. I guess if you're competitive and you've busted your ass for a month straight with a specific goal in mind and you fall short, a little disappointment is unavoidable. But I sometimes wonder if the Miss MFC/Top 100/250/whatever sometimes has the side-effect of leading models like the one in Bob's post above to confuse past successes, hard work and historically generous regulars with entitlement to whatever goal it is they have in mind, and also whether their success/wealth has perhaps blinded them to the incredibly fortunate circumstances that have conspired to allow them to make the kind of money they make and have the lifestyle that they have.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

The chat was about a model that finishes, on a regular basis, in top 15. She was literally pissed [on the 3rd of the month] that her guys weren't tipping the hell out of her. Mind you, she'd just had another payday of [conservatively stated to not point her out] 35k. While some were marveling at how someone as successful as she was could be "broke" so fast [part of her ranting on cam], others called her actions extremely greedy and spoiled.

I reckon things like Miss MFC are partly to blame for this kinda phenomenon. I guess that competition makes it easier for models (or anyone, really) to lose sight of the bigger picture. They become so focused on a goal that ultimately means very little next to things like continued financial security, quality of life, mental wellbeing, etc. etc. that it threatens to consume them and in (thankfully rare) instances like the one above, makes them behave like some greedy, spoiled, ingrate when things don't go their way.

Miss MFC, for all its positives, has contributed to a culture where a model can bust her ass for a month straight, make an outrageous amount of money (maybe even more than they were expecting to make at the beginning of the month), be spoiled by their regulars every day they logged on (and even the days they didn't), and still come out of that month disappointed that there were 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 models that just happened to do a little bit better than them. I guess if you're competitive and you've busted your ass for a month straight with a specific goal in mind and you fall short, a little disappointment is unavoidable. But I sometimes wonder if the Miss MFC/Top 100/250/whatever sometimes has the side-effect of leading models like the one in Bob's post above to confuse past successes, hard work and historically generous regulars with entitlement to whatever goal it is they have in mind, and also whether their success/wealth has perhaps blinded them to the incredibly fortunate circumstances that have conspired to allow them to make the kind of money they make and have the lifestyle that they have.

I had a moment earlier tonight where I was stuck on #118 for a few hours and was starting to get frustrated, and I was about to say something to the room, but thankfully before I let anything out, I realized...holy shit you are motherfucking #118 on MFC right now...that is amazing. You're making four times what you made 2 years ago camming. Shut yer mouth you ungrateful twat! :lol: It was so strange because I got focused on that number and lost sight of what really matters. It's like playing a videogame and getting SO into raising a skill level that you forget the entire reason you wanted to raise it in the first place.

Fucking tunnel vision, man. It's bananas.

 

[GweenBlack]

The chat was about a model that finishes, on a regular basis, in top 15. She was literally pissed [on the 3rd of the month] that her guys weren't tipping the hell out of her. Mind you, she'd just had another payday of [conservatively stated to not point her out] 35k. While some were marveling at how someone as successful as she was could be "broke" so fast [part of her ranting on cam], others called her actions extremely greedy and spoiled.

I reckon things like Miss MFC are partly to blame for this kinda phenomenon. I guess that competition makes it easier for models (or anyone, really) to lose sight of the bigger picture. They become so focused on a goal that ultimately means very little next to things like continued financial security, quality of life, mental wellbeing, etc. etc. that it threatens to consume them and in (thankfully rare) instances like the one above, makes them behave like some greedy, spoiled, ingrate when things don't go their way.

Miss MFC, for all its positives, has contributed to a culture where a model can bust her ass for a month straight, make an outrageous amount of money (maybe even more than they were expecting to make at the beginning of the month), be spoiled by their regulars every day they logged on (and even the days they didn't), and still come out of that month disappointed that there were 10 or 20 or 50 or 100 models that just happened to do a little bit better than them. I guess if you're competitive and you've busted your ass for a month straight with a specific goal in mind and you fall short, a little disappointment is unavoidable. But I sometimes wonder if the Miss MFC/Top 100/250/whatever sometimes has the side-effect of leading models like the one in Bob's post above to confuse past successes, hard work and historically generous regulars with entitlement to whatever goal it is they have in mind, and also whether their success/wealth has perhaps blinded them to the incredibly fortunate circumstances that have conspired to allow them to make the kind of money they make and have the lifestyle that they have.

I had a moment earlier tonight where I was stuck on #118 for a few hours and was starting to get frustrated, and I was about to say something to the room, but thankfully before I let anything out, I realized...holy shit you are motherfucking #118 on MFC right now...that is amazing. You're making four times what you made 2 years ago camming. Shut yer mouth you ungrateful twat! :lol: It was so strange because I got focused on that number and lost sight of what really matters. It's like playing a videogame and getting SO into raising a skill level that you forget the entire reason you wanted to raise it in the first place.

Fucking tunnel vision, man. It's bananas.

HAD THE SAME FEEL! "oh, dropped from top 100...let's get ba- HOLY SHIT GUYS MY RANK IS USUALLY #700!!! You guys rock, thank you so much for this, let me dress in my dinosaur onesie and dance with raffle tickets inside of it to the mini raffle draw"

I am glad i am keeping my promise to not turn into a war bitch (except for tonight against Steph) since its my first month near the top 100. They all deserve prizes from it and they will get it at the end of the month.

CHEERS, VERONICA. Because i fucking love you.

 

[Yarrow]

I find idea of success TicTacToe is supporting, to be exactly why there are various human rights issues all over the USA and a great majority of the world. I am going to guess that Tic fully supports some pretty shameless Capitalism. If I am wrong, please correct me. Some healthy competition is always good, and yes, Capitalism has its perks and is more than likely not going anywhere anytime soon. However, to say only those in the top tiers, financially, of their chosen profession are the only truly successful ones is demeaning to your fellow man, imo. People go through life doing the best they can, and many people are faced with challenges you can't even dream of. People are born into bad situations everyday and honestly the way the USA is stacked up (along with many other countries) the odds are against them. To want to further a notion of looking down on others because they do not have as much money as you, is not only perpetuating greed, it is incredibly short sighted. And yes, I do see your stance as some sort of misguided superiority complex... which is pretty sad.

 

[Kickaz]

I decided to step away from the forum because life and camming have taken up most of my time. I had received messages notifying me about this thread (some not so nice ones) and I want to state that I am in no shape or form related with the member tictactoe.

I understand the thread I started about miss MFC was created controversy. Despite the disagreements that were expressed there I would never look down on any models on this forum or any camgirls in general.

I probably will be away from the forum for a while but I wish everyone good luck on reaching their success, whatever their definition of success is.

To me happiness is success. Happiness is a state of mind, has very little to do with how much money you make or what number you get on the mfc scale, how popular you are, what kind of car you drive and the list goes on......

 

[Alexandra Cole]

I'm pretty oblivious to drama so I'm not clear on the backstory here, but I'm pretty sure TicTac is just a guy with a thing for quantifiable metrics.

 

[Alcon]

The other end of the extreme is that anybody who is still camming is successful. After all... you're still doing it. If the opposite of success is failure, then in any other profession, failure means you've either been kicked from or quit the profession, or simply are unable to do the job. A "failed businessperson" is literally a person whose business is failed, and they are no longer in business. I suppose that constitutes the vast majority of girls who sign up for cam sites. Most of them do not earn enough money for it to be worthwhile or for whatever reason decision they don't want to continue and quit. Hence the constant stream of new models. For those that are still doing it, the benefits must outweigh the costs or they would not be doing it. Hence they are successful. Now to be sure this is not glamorous to think about compared to Top 100, but I think it's equally valid.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I'll be honest in admitting I'm pretty certain tic is a model with models only access and figured since first post due to something they said but if it were kicka she would be pulling some slick Houdini moves. Most of the posts I'm pretty sure were during her cam time. I've been perving around MFC while forum browsing and posts popped up by tic while miss kicka was busy entertaining her room.

Just in case anyone is still suspicious of her, I would be genuinely amazed if it was her.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I too would be shocked if it was Kickaz. Everything I've ever seen from Kickaz - whether it be in her room or on here - suggests that she's a very classy, honest, forthright lady, and isn't afraid to state her opinion even if others are likely to be in disagreement. I think anything she'd want to say about this subject (or any other) she would say herself and have a hard time believing she'd post anonymously :twocents-02cents:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

public library shows.

The fuck does the library got to do with anything?

Offended models made it rain shit on you regardless.

If by rain shit you actually mean looked stupid, immature and classless then yeah they totally made it rain shit on me.

I am in no shape or form related with the member tictactoe.

Well, I hope you can at least understand why some would think you were.

 

[AmberCutie]

I looked into some admin info and verified that tic is NOT kickaz, so let's not bug her about this since she's focusing on things outside of the forum at this time.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

so let's not bug her about this

I didn't intend to bug her, was just a random comment mostly. Knowing that some people sent not so nice messages to her made me feel bad tho so I want to say sorry to Kickaz. Sorry to you as well for even wasting time on this.

 

[goldenaye666]

I had a moment earlier tonight where I was stuck on #118 for a few hours and was starting to get frustrated, and I was about to say something to the room, but thankfully before I let anything out, I realized...holy shit you are motherfucking #118 on MFC right now...that is amazing. You're making four times what you made 2 years ago camming. Shut yer mouth you ungrateful twat! :lol: It was so strange because I got focused on that number and lost sight of what really matters. It's like playing a videogame and getting SO into raising a skill level that you forget the entire reason you wanted to raise it in the first place.

Fucking tunnel vision, man. It's bananas.

I love that analogy. :lol: I get frustrated with video games all the time, but stop myself before I cuss people out or throw my controller through my TV.

I expect all models to have frustrated thoughts, but the ones most worth appreciating, can put things in perspective in their mind before they lash out. :thumbleft:

 

[Starling]

If by rain shit you actually mean looked stupid, immature and classless then yeah they totally made it rain shit on me.

Thanked your post for the funny gif before I read the rest of what you wrote. Kind of ironic that you call girls with good intentions who were only trying to explain their choices "stupid, immature, and classless," and don't think that's a rude, tactless, or immature move (especially when that thread is long since over). You are rather quick to assign sweeping draconian labels based on very small matters and personal bias, don't you think?

 

[JickyJuly]

Maybe we could skip jumping down Punk's throat on this one. He made a cheeky, funny comment that got lots of thanks (probably because it seemed feasible) and even apologized when he was proven wrong. If you want to attack him, I'm sure he'll say something worth that response in some other thread shortly. :lol: But, he didn't really do anything wrong over here.

 

[Starling]

Maybe we could skip jumping down Punk's throat on this one. He made a cheeky, funny comment that got lots of thanks (probably because it seemed feasible) and even apologized when he was proven wrong. If you want to attack him, I'm sure he'll say something worth that response in some other thread shortly. :lol: But, he didn't really do anything wrong over here.

Are you talking about the "do you consider MFC a porn site" post? I wasn't responding to that post, and I don't see why number of thanks have anything to do with it.


Who's jumping down anyone's throat? There was no reason to start discussing the library thread again (or criticizing the models therein), and I felt like that was worth pointing out. It seems a lot of people on this forum are very confused about what the word "attack" means. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Starling]

Sorry, I'm not trying to start a shitstorm, I just don't understand why some people feel it necessary to be rude and critical of others constantly, especially when it's not pertinent to the current conversation.

 

[JickyJuly]

I certainly know the meaning of the word attack. To be fair, I also didn't think anyone was ACTUALLY going to jump into Punk's throat. :lol: I'm not sure why the oversensitivity and dramatics are necessary. Nothing I said was remotely "shit storm" inducing. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere. I was peaceably disagreeing.

 

[Starling]

I'm not sure why the oversensitivity and dramatics are necessary. Nothing I said was remotely "shit storm" inducing.

I don't see any oversensitivity or dramatics, and I wasn't accusing you of starting a shitstorm- I was apologizing in case my posts seemed too provocative or antagonistic.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

You are rather quick to assign sweeping draconian labels based on very small matters and personal bias, don't you think?

Having no respect for public property and those around you may be a small matter to you but it isn't to me. Personal bias? lol Can it really even be considered that when everyone(minus a few camgirls) feels the same way about something? Good intentions are adorable and I do appreciate that you tried to explain your choices. Nothing stupid about that. Sorry about my choice of words but I wasn't the one that brought up libraries. Still, if my comments offended you I apoligize.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere.

Kinda related to this, I often notice how some camgirls fail to deal with guys that are "normal". If you aren't a suck up, white knight, stooge, etc. you must be a troll. "That guy doesn't agree with everything I said and he had the nerve to explain why, what a douchebag"

 

[AmberCutie]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere.

Kinda related to this, I often notice how some camgirls fail to deal with guys that are "normal". If you aren't a suck up, white knight, stooge, etc. you must be a troll. "That guy doesn't agree with everything I said and he had the nerve to explain why, what a douchebag"

You're both right and it's been a bit of a plague hitting ACF lately, and has gotten worse over the last couple years. I'm not sure how to steer people away from this behavior without making people feel like their thoughts are being policed, though. ACF has started to sort of "run itself" since the community has gotten so big and I don't want to be a heavy-handed admin/moderator (both for freedom reasons AND because it would take too much of my time).

But I digress... this thread isn't the place for that conversation.

 

[Starling]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere.

Kinda related to this, I often notice how some camgirls fail to deal with guys that are "normal". If you aren't a suck up, white knight, stooge, etc. you must be a troll. "That guy doesn't agree with everything I said and he had the nerve to explain why, what a douchebag"

You're both right and it's been a bit of a plague hitting ACF lately, and has gotten worse over the last couple years. I'm not sure how to steer people away from this behavior without making people feel like their thoughts are being policed, though. ACF has started to sort of "run itself" since the community has gotten so big and I don't want to be a heavy-handed admin/moderator (both for freedom reasons AND because it would take too much of my time).

But I digress... this thread isn't the place for that conversation.

Though I can see that being a frequent phenomenon, I'm definitely not one of those people- as anyone who's been to my room can attest, I'm pretty hard to rile up or seriously offend, and my guys, while kind and supportive, are not the types to lavish me in compliments or blow smoke up my ass. That said, I do tend to be vocal about my positions and opinions- and that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a camgirl.

I'm still confused as to where Jicky and Punk are seeing "hostility" or what they're responding to in the first place. I've never accused Punk of being a troll, or taken any of his comments super personally- maybe their posts aren't in response to mine? Because I am no pampered princess with entitlement issues, that's for damn sure. :handgestures-salute:

 

[AmberCutie]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere.

Kinda related to this, I often notice how some camgirls fail to deal with guys that are "normal". If you aren't a suck up, white knight, stooge, etc. you must be a troll. "That guy doesn't agree with everything I said and he had the nerve to explain why, what a douchebag"

You're both right and it's been a bit of a plague hitting ACF lately, and has gotten worse over the last couple years. I'm not sure how to steer people away from this behavior without making people feel like their thoughts are being policed, though. ACF has started to sort of "run itself" since the community has gotten so big and I don't want to be a heavy-handed admin/moderator (both for freedom reasons AND because it would take too much of my time).

But I digress... this thread isn't the place for that conversation.

Though I can see that being a frequent phenomenon, I'm definitely not one of those people- as anyone who's been to my room can attest, I'm pretty hard to rile up or seriously offend, and my guys, while kind and supportive, are not the types to lavish me in compliments or blow smoke up my ass. That said, I do tend to be vocal about my positions and opinions- and that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a camgirl.

I'm still confused as to where Jicky and Punk are seeing "hostility" or what they're responding to in the first place. I've never accused Punk of being a troll, or taken any of his comments super personally- maybe their posts aren't in response to mine? Because I am no pampered princess with entitlement issues, that's for damn sure. :handgestures-salute:

I think it may have to do with how you responded to Punk's comments, when he was only addressing tic who tried to re-bring up a subject that Punk and tic discussed in another thread. It may have been seen as you trying to start some shit and derail the thread further. I dunno. And I'd suppose that someone felt the need to draw attention to that given the fact that it's a common issue around here lately that people get "jumped on" for having different opinions.

Overall I wouldn't think too much about it. Things tend to get silly around here frequently and it's best to just brush it off. As you said, you're hard to rile up, so this shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Jillybean]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think some girls get so used to being the queen of their own camroom where dudes are lined up to be sweet, agreeable and lavish compliments upon them that the ability to discern between peaceable disagreement and hostility is lost somewhere.

Kinda related to this, I often notice how some camgirls fail to deal with guys that are "normal". If you aren't a suck up, white knight, stooge, etc. you must be a troll. "That guy doesn't agree with everything I said and he had the nerve to explain why, what a douchebag"

You're both right and it's been a bit of a plague hitting ACF lately, and has gotten worse over the last couple years. I'm not sure how to steer people away from this behavior without making people feel like their thoughts are being policed, though. ACF has started to sort of "run itself" since the community has gotten so big and I don't want to be a heavy-handed admin/moderator (both for freedom reasons AND because it would take too much of my time).

But I digress... this thread isn't the place for that conversation.

Though I can see that being a frequent phenomenon, I'm definitely not one of those people- as anyone who's been to my room can attest, I'm pretty hard to rile up or seriously offend, and my guys, while kind and supportive, are not the types to lavish me in compliments or blow smoke up my ass. That said, I do tend to be vocal about my positions and opinions- and that has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a camgirl.

I'm still confused as to where Jicky and Punk are seeing "hostility" or what they're responding to in the first place. I've never accused Punk of being a troll, or taken any of his comments super personally- maybe their posts aren't in response to mine? Because I am no pampered princess with entitlement issues, that's for damn sure. :handgestures-salute:

I think it may have to do with how you responded to Punk's comments, when he was only addressing tic who tried to re-bring up a subject that Punk and tic discussed in another thread. It may have been seen as you trying to start some shit and derail the thread further. I dunno. And I'd suppose that someone felt the need to draw attention to that given the fact that it's a common issue around here lately that people get "jumped on" for having different opinions.

Overall I wouldn't think too much about it. Things tend to get silly around here frequently and it's best to just brush it off. As you said, you're hard to rile up, so this shouldn't be an issue.

I hate to derail this thread more, but I notice myself getting into a mood sometimes on here. Not over much, just hot-button issues with me. :roll: I'm crazy hormonal sometimes and all the other excuses girls get to use. I know that SOMETIMES I do pipe in and get into my "angry-mode" on some people... BUT I can think of many many times where it was easier to click back to "View new posts" and pick a different thread, instead of butting in...

The path of least resistance. I'm trying to be like an electrical current. :lol:

***************************************************************
And just because: I consider successful days to be the ones I log off feeling happy. And I will never reach true success because that would be boring. If I hit a milestone, I'm going to keep going onto bigger things!

 

[AmberCutie]

I think I never answered the actual question of the thread, so let me jump in!

For ME, personally, success is consistently doing well enough to feel satisfied and not worried about financials. This means making enough to not live "paycheck to paycheck". Ideally this would be accomplished without doubling/tripling the amount of hours it normally takes to do so. If I can make enough over a 2 week period, or a month, that I can pay bills and have $ in my bank account so that I don't necessarily have to clip coupons and be super-choosey at the grocery store over which brand of peanut butter is cheaper, then that's satisfying for me.

I also feel, as a cam girl on MFC, that being recognizable is a part of it. If my name pops up in someone's Twitter feed, in the Lounge, etc., and at least a couple people go "oh yeah, AmberCutie, I've heard of/seen her", then that's satisfying to me, too. It means I've done something that makes people remember me and recognize my likeness and name when they stumble upon it.

TL;DR - making enough $ to not live "paycheck to paycheck" and being recognizable within the camming community = successful for me.