Trayvon Martin

[Harvrath]

There's no question that Zimmerman was at least partially responsible for what happened here. Even in the scenario where Trayvon was beating him to death and he killed him to protect himself, Zimmerman shares blame. As far as most people seem to be concerned, Stand Your Ground is off the table for him. He lost the right to claim that when he pursued Trayvon. That situation could have been completely avoided, but Zimmerman made it happen. Regardless of what you believe happened, that much is known, so he bears at least a part of the blame. It would be wrong for him to get away with this scott-free, as many others who have claimed Stand Your Ground have. It would reinforce scary precedent.

We honestly do not know. Zimmerman could have been walking away when Trayvon assaulted him, in which case Trayvon is completely at fault.

So you're giving the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman who followed a teenager against advice, armed, with an obvious preconceived idea of guilt, and a history of violence, against Trayvon with a clean record, who just left the house to buy some candy, and is too dead to defend himself? Ask yourself why that is. How does that make sense? What makes Zimmerman's account so credible?

Because I have a police report backing up Zimmerman's account. You got neighbors stating that Zimmerman sustained injuries. You got the Funeral Director stating that Trayvon had no injuries other than the single gun-shot wound which is consistent with Zimmerman's account, it would also be consistent with Zimmerman simply walking upto Trayvon and firing a shot, but would be inconsistent with Zimmerman's injuries and eye-witness accounts, one of which says he saw Zimmerman on the ground and Trayvon on top.

Am I supposed to suspend reason and assume that the PD, the State Attorney, the eye-witnesses and neighbors who corroborate Zimmerman are all lying and/or corrupt?

Your saying that if you punch someone in the nose with your bare fist hard enough to "break his nose" and that the funeral director reported that he had NO marks on his hands somehow is consistent with SOMETHING?

Injuries to Trayvon's hands would not necessarily happen from punching Zimmerman. The Medical Examiner will admit to this under Cross-Examination while under oath.

 

[sorrowfool]

There's no question that Zimmerman was at least partially responsible for what happened here. Even in the scenario where Trayvon was beating him to death and he killed him to protect himself, Zimmerman shares blame. As far as most people seem to be concerned, Stand Your Ground is off the table for him. He lost the right to claim that when he pursued Trayvon. That situation could have been completely avoided, but Zimmerman made it happen. Regardless of what you believe happened, that much is known, so he bears at least a part of the blame. It would be wrong for him to get away with this scott-free, as many others who have claimed Stand Your Ground have. It would reinforce scary precedent.

We honestly do not know. Zimmerman could have been walking away when Trayvon assaulted him, in which case Trayvon is completely at fault.

So you're giving the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman who followed a teenager against advice, armed, with an obvious preconceived idea of guilt, and a history of violence, against Trayvon with a clean record, who just left the house to buy some candy, and is too dead to defend himself? Ask yourself why that is. How does that make sense? What makes Zimmerman's account so credible?

Because I have a police report backing up Zimmerman's account. You got neighbors stating that Zimmerman sustained injuries. You got the Funeral Director stating that Trayvon had no injuries other than the single gun-shot wound which is consistent with Zimmerman's account, it would also be consistent with Zimmerman simply walking upto Trayvon and firing a shot, but would be inconsistent with Zimmerman's injuries and eye-witness accounts, one of which says he saw Zimmerman on the ground and Trayvon on top.

My point isn't that Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. My point is that Zimmerman initiated the conflict, he pursued the conflict, and thus, he bears at least part of the blame. Trayvon was just going about his day when Zimmerman (allegedly) accosted him. It's not like Trayvon was searching for a random victim to beat down. He was just going home. This WHOLE situation happened because of Zimmerman. Trayvon is dead because of Zimmerman. Zimmerman (allegedly) got his ass beat because of Zimmerman. Had he stayed in his car, had he observed and reported like Neighborhood WATCH is supposed to do, Trayvon would be alive. That's a fact. Zimmerman isn't a victim in this. The only question is how much of the blame is his.

Am I supposed to suspend reason and assume that the PD, the State Attorney, the eye-witnesses and neighbors who corroborate Zimmerman are all lying and/or corrupt?

The police weren't there, the State's Attorney wasn't there. Obviously, the evidence hasn't provided enough to make any concrete determinations, and a number of witnesses are claiming the police didn't seem interested in hearing their accounts. So the police and the State's Attorney are going based off of Zimmerman's testimony, which is far from unbiased. There was no real "eyewitness." One of the accounts corroborate Zimmerman's story? Well, I can pull up 3 more that don't. All the eyewitnesses have different accounts. One guy says he saw the scuffle from his window and "the bigger man" was on top, another says Trayvon was. One witness says that after the gunshot they saw Zimmerman pacing, he seemed "uninjured but worried." Honestly, the witnesses have become useless in this case. This case has become more than a murder investigation. Now it's bringing issues such as gun control, race, and legislature. People already have their opinions about these, and the "witnesses" are in a position where they can influence the case and get their 15mins of fame.

Zimmerman's story is that he called the police then went back to his car. I am supposed to believe that Trayvon, with no criminal record, no history of violence, attacked Zimmerman, unprovoked?

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Channel surfing last week I landed on Hannity who had zimmerman's dad on to tell what zimmerman said happened. "You got a problem? Well you do now."- Trayvon. Hilarious.

 

[Jupiter551]

Zimmerman had grassstains on his back. A witness specifically says they were tussling on the grass, not concrete. It's not a case-breaker but since the head-slammed-into-concrete speaks to apparent justification for homocide, it's fairly important.

And I gotta agree with Nordling - you'd need to show me some kind of motive before I believe the killer's account that a teenager with no record attacks a grown man from behind for no reason.

 

[BullFrogBlues]

Reported on many news sites George Zimmerman has created a web site to raise money for legal costs, lawyers confirm. http://therealgeorgezimmerman.com/Home_Page.php it is quite sparse and seems to be overwhelmed by the traffic.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... rs-confirm

 

[Bocefish]

If Zimmerman had been walking away when Trayvon assualted him, then where are the injuries on his front?

His nose was broken by Trayvon.

So much is given to the injuries on the back of his head, which means Zimmerman was FACING Trayvon when he was attacked by Trayvon. Which to me, means that Zimmerman approached Trayvon, not the other way around.

If they end up facing each other, how can you tell who approached who?

Your saying that if you punch someone in the nose with your bare fist hard enough to "break his nose" and that the funeral director reported that he had NO marks on his hands somehow is consistent with SOMETHING?

Hands don't swell up right away unless you break something, nor do they get cuts from punching somebody in the nose. They especially won't swell up if you're body organs stop working almost immediately afterward.

Zimmerman had grassstains on his back. A witness specifically says they were tussling on the grass, not concrete. It's not a case-breaker but since the head-slammed-into-concrete speaks to apparent justification for homocide, it's fairly important.

Adults don't get head gash wounds like that from hitting the grass.

There is so much we don't know and what the media reports is hardly reliable. Now NBC says they didn't fire anyone for manipulating the audio tape, but unnamed people were supposedly disciplined. They can't even get their own lies straight.

 

[Harvrath]

There's no question that Zimmerman was at least partially responsible for what happened here. Even in the scenario where Trayvon was beating him to death and he killed him to protect himself, Zimmerman shares blame. As far as most people seem to be concerned, Stand Your Ground is off the table for him. He lost the right to claim that when he pursued Trayvon. That situation could have been completely avoided, but Zimmerman made it happen. Regardless of what you believe happened, that much is known, so he bears at least a part of the blame. It would be wrong for him to get away with this scott-free, as many others who have claimed Stand Your Ground have. It would reinforce scary precedent.

We honestly do not know. Zimmerman could have been walking away when Trayvon assaulted him, in which case Trayvon is completely at fault.

So you're giving the benefit of the doubt to Zimmerman who followed a teenager against advice, armed, with an obvious preconceived idea of guilt, and a history of violence, against Trayvon with a clean record, who just left the house to buy some candy, and is too dead to defend himself? Ask yourself why that is. How does that make sense? What makes Zimmerman's account so credible?

Because I have a police report backing up Zimmerman's account. You got neighbors stating that Zimmerman sustained injuries. You got the Funeral Director stating that Trayvon had no injuries other than the single gun-shot wound which is consistent with Zimmerman's account, it would also be consistent with Zimmerman simply walking upto Trayvon and firing a shot, but would be inconsistent with Zimmerman's injuries and eye-witness accounts, one of which says he saw Zimmerman on the ground and Trayvon on top.

My point isn't that Trayvon didn't attack Zimmerman. My point is that Zimmerman initiated the conflict, he pursued the conflict, and thus, he bears at least part of the blame. Trayvon was just going about his day when Zimmerman (allegedly) accosted him. It's not like Trayvon was searching for a random victim to beat down. He was just going home. This WHOLE situation happened because of Zimmerman. Trayvon is dead because of Zimmerman. Zimmerman (allegedly) got his ass beat because of Zimmerman. Had he stayed in his car, had he observed and reported like Neighborhood WATCH is supposed to do, Trayvon would be alive. That's a fact. Zimmerman isn't a victim in this. The only question is how much of the blame is his.

It does not matter if Zimmerman instigated the conflict. The law is clear on this. I start a fight with you, you got the right to use only so much force to defend yourself or end the confrontation. If your first retaliatory punch knocks me to the ground or otherwise renders me incapable of fighting, you are to cease and desist. If you then continue to beat me, it becomes a criminal act such as Felonious Assault.

If you then draw a knife or start to strangle me, I can draw my gun, kill you and be justified under the law even though I started the physical altercation.

 

[SoTxBob]

If your first retaliatory punch knocks me to the ground or otherwise renders me incapable of fighting, you are to cease and desist.

Been in a lot of fights with rules have ya..... :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

 

[Harvrath]

If your first retaliatory punch knocks me to the ground or otherwise renders me incapable of fighting, you are to cease and desist.

Been in a lot of fights with rules have ya..... :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling: :laughing-rolling:

Nope, stating the law.

Unless you wanna contend that I can continue to put bullets into my wounded attacker as he lays on the ground bleeding out.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Yes, when I bring my candy to a gun fight I stop fighting immediately after he gets knocked to the ground because the situation is clearly under control and the man with the gun knows it's all over and will go home. That'll learn em.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

Zimmerman could have gotten grass on his clothes if he stumbled and fell on his face breaking his nose and scuffing his head while running away in a panic from the dead body he just dropped.

No witnesses, so who will ever really know?

I bet if Zim turns up dead one afternoon they will all of a sudden turn into OCD CSIs.
Probably spend a million bucks trying to figure out who greased him all the while crying about "no witnesses? The evidence is witness!"

yeah... it's nice to be white.
:lol:

This poor Treyvon kid will never ever get justice. It's been too long, the evidence if there ever was any is gone, the eyewitnesses have been corrupted by the media, Zim's "spokespersons" have poisoned the water, and last but not least..... the law probably will end up ruling on his side and the best anyone can hope for is that the SYG law will be repealed and then rewritten better, or not at all.

But Zim will never be convicted of anything but MAYBE, maybe.... manslaughter and serve no time.

He'll live in terror the rest of his life walking free. Plus, he'll be bankrupt.

 

[Bocefish]

It's a little disheartening in this day and age that such a high percentage of people have jumped to the conclusion that the shooting was racially motivated despite there not being one single, solitary fact to back that up. However, I put a good portion of that blame on the media and how the incident was reported from the start.

Ran across this while searching for the video statement that the special prosecutor Angela Corey made the other day:

 

[Kradek]

Ran across this while searching for the video statement that the special prosecutor Angela Corey made the other day:

Not sure if you're promoting that video positively or not. As the founder and editor of American Renaissance, Jared Taylor as a bit of his own axe to grind. Ten minutes of the video is spent talking about black reaction and not about "Fact versus Fantasy." When he finally does start talking about "facts" he starts off repeating three things that are factually incorrect.

[9] "...and he was out patrolling..." No, he was actually going to the store. He stopped when he saw Treyvon.
[9] "...yes, he did call 911..." No, he called the non-emergency number.
[9] "...yes, the 911 operator told him not to confront the suspicious character..." No, the operator asked him if he was following Treyvon and then said he didn't need to do that.

 

[Nordling]

Not sure why you're posting a video from The American Racialist... er Renaissance. It's a far-right, racist group. If we can't refer to more moderate sources, let's not refer at all.

 

[Bocefish]

Should've been clearer why I posted it... the guy is obviously biased, no doubt, but the point was how the media described the incident so one sided with clear racial antagonistic intentions from the beginning, conveniently omitting facts they knew about. And yes, I know he screwed up the facts too.

 

[Bocefish]

Zimmerman is proving himself to be an idiot...

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/ge ... from-case/

George Zimmerman’s Attorneys Withdraw From Case

ORLANDO, Fla. (CBSMiami) – In a surreal press conference Tuesday evening, George Zimmerman’s lawyers said they are withdrawing as his defense council because of lack of communication from their client.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well, maybe it's because I don't watch American coverage of this except things people post here and a couple of times when I've searched the CNN site, but I haven't seen much that hinged on the racial aspect at all.

Also, as a non-American listener of the police call tapes, I felt he was kinda singling Trayvon out because he was black - not overtly, but that he was doing so. That's coming from someone in a society where race is most of the time a non-issue and racial violence no issue at all FWIW. Saying that, I dunno why anyone would be approaching this from a racial angle, an unarmed kid is dead, no one needs to play the race card to say something's fucked up about THAT.

 

[Jupiter551]

Zimmerman is proving himself to be an idiot...

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/04/10/ge ... from-case/

George Zimmerman’s Attorneys Withdraw From Case

ORLANDO, Fla. (CBSMiami) – In a surreal press conference Tuesday evening, George Zimmerman’s lawyers said they are withdrawing as his defense council because of lack of communication from their client.

wow, he's not in the state of Florida? I would have thought that's a potential issue..

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

He fired his lawyer, contacted the prosecutor and called Hannity.

:lol:

This idiot is going to hang himself. Too funny.

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

wow, he's not in the state of Florida? I would have thought that's a potential issue..

He isnt under arrest or on bail, he can go wherever he wants.
Kinda the point of them wanting him charged so he can't flee the state and hide.

They let him go with no charge, so he can fly to France or Timbuktu if he wants... and right about now, he probably should.
:lol:

 

[Nordling]

Heh. A radio host said, "he's becoming the Sarah Palin of clients? He's gone rogue?"

 

[Nordling]

wow, he's not in the state of Florida? I would have thought that's a potential issue..

He isnt under arrest or on bail, he can go wherever he wants.
Kinda the point of them wanting him charged so he can't flee the state and hide.

They let him go with no charge, so he can fly to France or Timbuktu if he wants... and right about now, he probably should.
:lol:

Wild scenario: He'll go to Peru and stay with his mom's family.

 

[Jupiter551]

For his legal team to recuse themselves from such a high profile case makes me think they don't feel confident about their chances of winning. One way or another, up-and-coming lawyers would love to win this case. Not so much to lose it tho.

PS the grand jury thing - he was never going to get the death sentence anyway. If Corey wants to prosecute it (or decline to) herself it means she's confident about the evidence. She's got a shit job otherwise, because unless she can lay out the case so convincingly that there's no argument, there's still going to be a section of the community saying she didn't do her job.

 

[Nordling]

A case like this might take millions to defend. It may simply be that the lawyers decided to back out because of a fear of not getting paid AND that their client was getting flaky...like him calling the prosecutor's office AND Sean Hannity AGAINST their best advice.

 

[Bocefish]

They're probably just covering their ass since Zimmerman seems to be mentally losing it & ignoring their advice.

SANFORD, Fla. -
State Attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case, announced on Tuesday night that she will hold a news conference sometime within the next three days.

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference as to when and where it will be held -- either Jacksonville or Sanford.

 

[Jupiter551]

They're probably just covering their ass since Zimmerman seems to be mentally losing it & ignoring their advice.

SANFORD, Fla. -
State Attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case, announced on Tuesday night that she will hold a news conference sometime within the next three days.

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference as to when and where it will be held -- either Jacksonville or Sanford.

It's like waiting to hear about a ransom note from kidnappers or something...
Sometime within the next three days she will release some info, and will give the location just beforehand...

 

[Bocefish]

They're probably just covering their ass since Zimmerman seems to be mentally losing it & ignoring their advice.

SANFORD, Fla. -
State Attorney Angela Corey, the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case, announced on Tuesday night that she will hold a news conference sometime within the next three days.

In a memo from her office, Corey said she will release new information regarding the investigation into Martin's death, but no specifics were provided.

The media will be notified three hours in advance of the news conference as to when and where it will be held -- either Jacksonville or Sanford.

It's like waiting to hear about a ransom note from kidnappers or something...
Sometime within the next three days she will release some info, and will give the location just beforehand...

That's because they have to factor in all the nutjobs with less than good intentions as well.

Zimmerman attorneys full news conference:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Zimmer ... index.html

 

[Paulie Walnuts]

An attorney who can successfully defend a client is a success, if they are defending a saint or a demon.

It matters to us that they help scumbags walk , we don't need their services (yet).... but to people who do, and have money they are in demand and are in lawyer's circles.... successful.

I don't think they backed out slowly because Zim has no money, a high profile case would make them famous and in demand if they won.

I think, when Zim started to flake out, calling the prosecutor, Tv people, and then fleeing the state they didn't want it to be thought they had anything to do with it or, anything he might soon do that is illegal or would make them guilty of.... whatever.

A lawyer can be disbarred for some really simple screw ups not of their own making. The way they were talking it sounds to me like Zim is a loose cannon as a client and they want it known they have nothing to do with his actions.

 

[Jupiter551]

That's because they have to factor in all the nutjobs with less than good intentions as well.

Zimmerman attorneys full news conference:
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Zimmer ... index.html

Holy shit 45 mins? I guess he wasn't one of those kids who had to do a 5 minute movie review in front of his English class and ran out of things to say at the 2 minute mark.

Haven't spoken to him for almost 3 days...had spoken every day up until since Sunday...they've officially broken up :love9:

 

[Jupiter551]

lol at about 12 minutes some blonde woman just wanders into the background, from earlier zoomed out shots she wasn't anywhere around lol.