Tonight is my first library show

[JoleneBrody]

The argument of people seeing exposed breasts is so incredibly laughable to me but then again, I did partially grow up in a town where women walking around topless is completely legal and heavily practiced.

Exposing strangers to genitals or masturbation, for sure! But boobs? C'mon!! If someone is scared for life by seeing a fucking boob they have much larger issues.

But yeah, public shows don't bother me unless anyone other than an approved MFC model is featured on cam. That includes voices for me too. It is totally disrespectful to the other people around you and CAN still get you in MFC trouble.

 

[AllisonWilder]

I feel like maybe I should have been more clear. My statement was 100% about uncontrolled environments + kids + random boobage, not adults, etc. I guess maybe that's just the parent in me, though.

 

[zippypinhead]

So, how do people rationalize stuff like delivery guy shows? It's one thing to do a public show where there may be incidental or accidental appearances of other people on screen -- and we can debate whether or not certain breaches in decorum are disrespectful, but it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

So, how do people rationalize stuff like delivery guy shows? It's one thing to do a public show where there may be incidental or accidental appearances of other people on screen -- and we can debate whether or not certain breaches in decorum are disrespectful, but it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

Personally, my pizza guys are always informed that they will be delivering somewhere there may be nudity. I put it on the form when I order the pizza (or tell the guy on the phone.)

I don't want to risk them sending a minor.

That way if they want to refuse my order they can. The last show i did the pizza took like 2 hrs cos they had to call someone in from home to deliver the pizza (who got a BIG tip)

I don't hide this fact in my shows because I think consent is important.

I also however, think that this countries nudity laws are ridiculous and that answering the door topless shouldn't be something that causes me to get in trouble.. when men can walk around topless just fine.

 

[mynameisbob84]

So, how do people rationalize stuff like delivery guy shows? It's one thing to do a public show where there may be incidental or accidental appearances of other people on screen -- and we can debate whether or not certain breaches in decorum are disrespectful, but it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

My initial response to this question is always "I doubt they mind". And while that's likely true for the most part - I think most delivery doods would not be at all averse to delivering pizza to some gorgeous naked lady - it does expose a huge double standard. I don't think many here would argue that some creepy looking guy exposing his diseased genitals to a girl in the park is in any way excusable, yet a lot of folk would probably argue that a hot cam girl opening the door to a delivery guy with nothing covering her lady bits is just a bit of fun.

If there's any difference at all between the two, it's that the latter is far, far more likely to be enjoyed than the former.

 

[schlmoe]

So, how do people rationalize stuff like delivery guy shows? It's one thing to do a public show where there may be incidental or accidental appearances of other people on screen -- and we can debate whether or not certain breaches in decorum are disrespectful, but it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

My initial response to this question is always "I doubt they mind". And while that's likely true for the most part - I think most delivery doods would not be at all averse to delivering pizza to some gorgeous naked lady - it does expose a huge double standard. I don't think many here would argue that some creepy looking guy exposing his diseased genitals to a girl in the park is in any way excusable, yet a lot of folk would probably argue that a hot cam girl opening the door to a delivery guy with nothing covering her lady bits is just a bit of fun.

If there's any difference at all between the two, it's that the latter is far, far more likely to be enjoyed than the former.

I am shocked! Shocked to find that diseased genital shaming is happening here!

 

[PunkInDrublic]

The part that upsets me the most about this is that you don't seem to understand that your particular distaste for library shows could literally be replaced with any other kind of show- anal, girl/girl, etc.

Not really. Those types of shows aren't done in public and aren't disrespectful to anyone. Seems like another excuse or lame way to justify disrespectful behavior.

 

[SexySteph]

The part that upsets me the most about this is that you don't seem to understand that your particular distaste for library shows could literally be replaced with any other kind of show- anal, girl/girl, etc.

Not really. Those types of shows aren't done in public and aren't disrespectful to anyone. Seems like another excuse or lame way to justify disrespectful behavior.

I really didn't want to get involved but I feel like you're misunderstanding.

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

The part that upsets me the most about this is that you don't seem to understand that your particular distaste for library shows could literally be replaced with any other kind of show- anal, girl/girl, etc.

Not really. Those types of shows aren't done in public and aren't disrespectful to anyone. Seems like another excuse or lame way to justify disrespectful behavior.

I really didn't want to get involved but I feel like you're misunderstanding.

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

Anal shows - Sodomites destroyed by God. Classless and disrespectful.

That one's just too easy to come up with a logical thought process for. Now I never understood the girl/girl part cause that's just something everyone can enjoy.

And I enjoy how serious you were with the use of opinion. Bold, underlined, AND italics. You meant business there! :lol:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

But those shows aren't really disrespectful to anyone, would be a hard opinion to back up. I get the overall message but you can't compare anal or girl girl shows to public shows. How is anal disrespectful? How is a girl girl show disrespectful?

 

[AmberCutie]

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

But those shows aren't really disrespectful to anyone, would be a hard opinion to back up. I get the overall message but you can't compare anal or girl girl shows to public shows. How is anal disrespectful? How is a girl girl show disrespectful?

I think everyone is misunderstanding you. I take your comments to mean that public shows are disrespectful to OTHER people (those who are around, those who take care of the property the girls are using, etc.) You can't really compare that to an anal show, or a cervix fucking show, or a piss and shit show. While we may all have opinions about THOSE shows, when those are done on their own private property without possibly exposing anyone else to it (or the aftermath) they aren't disrespectful to anyone.

I think I can see what you're trying to say in your posts. But all these girls think you're taking a shot at them for some reason.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

But those shows aren't really disrespectful to anyone, would be a hard opinion to back up. I get the overall message but you can't compare anal or girl girl shows to public shows. How is anal disrespectful? How is a girl girl show disrespectful?

Wherever there is a thing, there is always someone close by to take offence to it. Homosexual sex might be deemed disrespectful to the teachings of the bible by a devout Christian. Anal sex might offend someone who... doesn't have an anus? I dunno. But not to put words (or anything else) into Lilah's mouth, that's kind of her point (I think). The fact that somebody might take offence to something or deem it disrespectful, does not make that practice or those who partake in it innately classless.

I don't think Lilah minds that you don't like library shows, or that you find them disrespectful - you're free to think what you want, innit - I think she was more peeved by your assertion that because you dislike library shows, it therefore follows that all individuals who think otherwise are classless human beings. That and the fact that your stance makes no distinction between a cam girl who squirts all over the children's literature section in full view of dozens of shocked bystanders and a cam girl who takes every precaution to ensure she isn't seen by anyone, that nobody is caught on cam, and that no semen finds its way into anyone's library book :twocents-02cents:

 

[SexySteph]

I think what she's saying is, while this is your opinion anyone could have the same opinion applying to these other shows. While YOU might not feel that way someone else could easily say "Anal shows are so classless and disrespectful." "Girl/girl shows are so classless and disrespectful." and they would also probably have a logical thought process backing up their opinion just like you do.

But those shows aren't really disrespectful to anyone, would be a hard opinion to back up. I get the overall message but you can't compare anal or girl girl shows to public shows. How is anal disrespectful? How is a girl girl show disrespectful?

I don't believe the things I'm about to say, but:

Anal - "That's not what your body is meant for./That's disrespectful to yourself and God to insert things in places they don't belong./That's disrespectful to your parents, that's not what they wanted for you. etc."

Girl/Girl - "Sex should be something beautiful between two people, it shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be traded for cash./These girls aren't even bi, it's so disrespectful to pretend for money. etc."

See? Someone can always find a way to make what you're doing disrespectful to them. I was once chewed out for eating cookies because "I'm on a diet, do you know how disrespectful you're being to me right now?"

And just to be clear, I agree that masturbating with people directly behind you in a public place and squirting on public property is disrespectful. But I don't agree that fully clothed, silent, "teehee 500 tokens to take my cardigan off (but leaving my v-neck tee on) HT is 1500" type shows are disrespectful as long as no bystanders are included in the frame and you're not being overt about what you're doing. Hell, every time I went in my library all the foreign exchange students were loudly skyping their families in the cubicles. That's more disrespectful than what girls like Kickazz do.

ETA: Bob pretty much said what I meant to say.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

I think everyone is misunderstanding you. I take your comments to mean that public shows are disrespectful to OTHER people (those who are around, those who take care of the property the girls are using, etc.) You can't really compare that to an anal show, or a cervix fucking show, or a piss and shit show. While we may all have opinions about THOSE shows, when those are done on their own private property without possibly exposing anyone else to it (or the aftermath) they aren't disrespectful to anyone.

I think I can see what you're trying to say in your posts. But all these girls think you're taking a shot at them for some reason.

Yeah a model could do poo shows while shoving toys in her ear and it wouldn't be disrespectful to me. It's the lack of respect for others that I find so classless.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Anal - "That's not what your body is meant for./That's disrespectful to yourself and God to insert things in places they don't belong./That's disrespectful to your parents, that's not what they wanted for you. etc."

Girl/Girl - "Sex should be something beautiful between two people, it shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be traded for cash./These girls aren't even bi, it's so disrespectful to pretend for money. etc."

See? Someone can always find a way to make what you're doing disrespectful to them..

Those reasons are insane tho, the reason people find using a library to get dudes off isn't.

 

[ThePrincessLuxy]

I think everyone is misunderstanding you. I take your comments to mean that public shows are disrespectful to OTHER people (those who are around, those who take care of the property the girls are using, etc.) You can't really compare that to an anal show, or a cervix fucking show, or a piss and shit show. While we may all have opinions about THOSE shows, when those are done on their own private property without possibly exposing anyone else to it (or the aftermath) they aren't disrespectful to anyone.

I think I can see what you're trying to say in your posts. But all these girls think you're taking a shot at them for some reason.

Yeah a model could do poo shows while shoving toys in her ear and it wouldn't be disrespectful to me. It's the lack of respect for others that I find so classless.

:shock: <--- my face imagining that show :?

 

[AmberCutie]

I think everyone is misunderstanding you. I take your comments to mean that public shows are disrespectful to OTHER people (those who are around, those who take care of the property the girls are using, etc.) You can't really compare that to an anal show, or a cervix fucking show, or a piss and shit show. While we may all have opinions about THOSE shows, when those are done on their own private property without possibly exposing anyone else to it (or the aftermath) they aren't disrespectful to anyone.

I think I can see what you're trying to say in your posts. But all these girls think you're taking a shot at them for some reason.

Yeah a model could do poo shows while shoving toys in her ear and it wouldn't be disrespectful to me. It's the lack of respect for others that I find so classless.

I realize by trying to clarify that I've dragged you back into this after you've said you were washing your hands of it, sorry!

Peoples' arguments just weren't making any sense, and I think that's because they were misunderstanding your point. And it's a point and opinion that I mostly agree with.

 

[SexySteph]

Anal - "That's not what your body is meant for./That's disrespectful to yourself and God to insert things in places they don't belong./That's disrespectful to your parents, that's not what they wanted for you. etc."

Girl/Girl - "Sex should be something beautiful between two people, it shouldn't be treated as a commodity to be traded for cash./These girls aren't even bi, it's so disrespectful to pretend for money. etc."

See? Someone can always find a way to make what you're doing disrespectful to them..

Those reasons are insane tho, the reason people find using a library to get dudes off isn't.

And like I said, I agree that using a library to get guys off is disrespectful. I just don't see SOME library shows as disrespectful seeing as not all shows have that aim. For example if anyone was jerking off to most of my camshows (I've never done a library show), I'd be impressed (and worried that they're the type to get boners picking out watermelons for their 4th of July picnic) cuz they're pretty tame. It'd be like jerking off because you saw that Beyonce pepsi commercial. lol

I was just trying to explain what I think Lilah was saying. Anyone could find a way to be disrespected by anything. That's all. :handgestures-salute:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Peoples' arguments just weren't making any sense, and I think that's because they were misunderstanding your point. And it's a point and opinion that I mostly agree with.

Yeah the "people will find anything to be disrespected by" argument is obviously laughable but it also doesn't even make sense in this case.

 

[mynameisbob84]

For what it's worth, my thoughts on library shows are thus; I'm not a big fan of them. I enjoy rooms with a chatty vibe, where the model runs with whatever discussion is taking place while gently pushing their countdown for nakedness or a cumshow or whatever. With library shows, the model can't speak so it makes for a completely different vibe and atmosphere, one that doesn't really mesh with my personal preferences.

The aspects of library shows that I find disrespectful are things that would be disrespectful in any setting, and aren't (or don't have to be) fundamental features of a library show. Showing people on cam who haven't consented to being on cam is poopy. Ditto indecently exposing yourself to random members of the public who may not be as enamoured with your body as your regulars are. And leaving any bodily fluids behind after you've vacated the area is obviously pretty fucking icky.

But that doesn't mean I agree that any cam girl who performs library shows is classless. It doesn't follow that all cam girls who cam from libraries are guilty of all (or any) of the above and I would posit that so long as a cam girl can pull off a library show without showing members of the public on cam, without indecently exposing themselves to that same public, and without leaving a sticky white snail trail in their seat (which really shouldn't be that hard) probably doesn't deserve to have her class and decency called into question.

 

[mutantdonut]

So what started out as a harmless inquiry about library shows turned into a flaming hot topic that would make congress proud. Perhaps we should all sing a little kumbaya when this is all finished yeah? We're all entitled to an opinion, as long as it's expressed tastefully. So once again, agree-to-disagree.

I also feel like iKarli is owed an apology by many of us, including myself.

Peoples' arguments just weren't making any sense, and I think that's because they were misunderstanding your point. And it's a point and opinion that I mostly agree with.

No, i think everyone understands each other to a degree and yet continue to debate this matter on differing tracks, and everyone makes complete sense even if they're not completely on the same track. I believe Punk is trying to point out what is socially acceptable and morally corrupt in relation to others based on what he feels should be universal standards, hence he pulls the 'disrespect' card. I believe Lilah, and Steph to back her view, that the view of disrespect is very relative, and the disrespect view can be argued for any various aspects, depending on where individuals stand. Where the two arguments meet is how the usage of "disrespect" and/or "classless" comes into relative play in the context of ACF and cam sites (sorry that's as best as i can frame it). If i'm wrong on all that, then fuck.... who the shit knows?

Those reasons are insane tho
Yeah the "people will find anything to be disrespected by" argument is obviously laughable but it also doesn't even make sense in this case.

To say "that's insane" is an incredibly flimsy argument wouldn't you say..?
Didn't you promise to not to ruffle feathers a while ago? I feel like your last several replies are based on riled up emotions more so than level-headed logic, based on the subtle jabs you take. I know others are guilty of the same on this thread and everyone should take a deep breathe.

it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

Although most pizza guys would most likely LOVE seeing a beautiful naked woman to his surprise, i would say it's disrespectful in a general sense regardless only if he doesn't know what he's walking into and especially if the guy happens to find nudity as offensive. Miss_Lolli covers her bases when she warns the pizza place ahead of time. If it was a homophobic pizza guy unknowingly walking in on another naked DUDE, then pizza man would find it highly disrespectful to see another man's genitalia.

I was just trying to explain what I think Lilah was saying. Anyone could find a way to be disrespected by anything. That's all.

I think you framed it spot on with this and your previous post on differing opinions. :thumbleft:

 

[PunkInDrublic]

Those reasons are insane tho
Yeah the "people will find anything to be disrespected by" argument is obviously laughable but it also doesn't even make sense in this case.

To say "that's insane" is an incredibly flimsy argument wouldn't you say..?

Not when it's in response to something like "God finds it disrespectful", seems super appropriate.

 

[mutantdonut]

Not when it's in response to something like "God finds it disrespectful", seems super appropriate.

Exactly case in point




p.s. i hope any (US) football fans will enjoy the Superbowl tomorrow :-D

 

[zippypinhead]

it's quite another to act with the explicit intention of confronting an unaware someone with your naked body.

Although most pizza guys would most likely LOVE seeing a beautiful naked woman to his surprise, i would say it's disrespectful in a general sense regardless only if he doesn't know what he's walking into and especially if the guy happens to find nudity as offensive. Miss_Lolli covers her bases when she warns the pizza place ahead of time. If it was a homophobic pizza guy unknowingly walking in on another naked DUDE, then pizza man would find it highly disrespectful to see another man's genitalia.

I don't think you have to be homophobic to feel affronted by a guy's uncovered bits while he receives a pizza from you. I honestly would feel pretty uncomfortable about having anyone answering the door in the nude, unless it was prearranged and expected. That's just plain ol' situational awareness kicking in. Just the thought, "has any hand-washing recently taken place?" would be enough to set off my squick-reflex. And we don't need to come up with cartoonish scenarios in order to illustrate the perceived double standard, here. A naked guy will suffice. He can even be pretty fit; he doesn't even need rotten junk or anything.

And since this seems to have become some sort of key to judge the appropriateness of the situation, how weird would it be to see a guy with his shirt open and doing some sexy dancing among the stacks? How weird would it be to see him with his pants around his ankles, erection in hand, and jacking it?

 

[Jillybean]

I can't think of something more pointless to waste energy arguing about right now. :/

I was interested in the friendly discussion of differing opinions until it turned into an argument.

Any way, the interpretation of what's "classless and disrespectful" is certainly different depending on who you ask. Obviously PunkinDrublic has a strong opinion on the subject, and he is not wrong. He can't be wrong. Nobody can be wrong about what they find disrespectful. If they find it disrespectful, then they find it disrespectful and they can't be wrong in saying it upsets them.

Whether we agree with it is up to us. I do not agree with him that it is disrespectful. It may be classless. People who think they are classy are usually too stand-offish and up their own butts for me to get to know them too well though. So I don't really know what they find to be so classy.

Any way. If there's not a soul on the library floor they're doing it in, then they are in a private area (as far as I'm concerned). Surely you will hear an elevator door open when someone else arrives, and presumably you're smart enough to be far from the elevator or stair access so you can cover up and act normal before they see you.

Meh. I'm not sold on the disrespectful part. I am not offended that other people may be using my library for more than studying. But I respect your right to be offended by it. You know what I mean?

Let's all hug and stop fighting and go back to being civil. That's what classy people do, right? Can I be classy now?

Lol. It's been a really long day for me. Sorry for this incoherent post. HAHA!

 

[Just Me]

What I don't understand is for those that do public shows, library or otherwise, stating they go through such great pains to make sure no one in public will be seen on their cam, no one in public will exposed to their nudity and they are in a private enough place that the chances of being discovered are practically nil. What exactly is the point of these shows?

 

[LaceyRoyce]

What I don't understand is for those that do public shows, library or otherwise, stating they go through such great pains to make sure no one in public will be seen on their cam, no one in public will exposed to their nudity and they are in a private enough place that the chances of being discovered are practically nil. What exactly is the point of these shows?

The fantasy you're creating, and the adrenalin that there's a *chance* someone COULD see you

OR sometimes its the knowledge that I'm sitting in the middle of a busy place with no panties on and a vibe in and NO ONE knows... except those watching my cam. It's like im sharing my dirty little secret on the internet.. I've done vibes in public in my private sex life too. Same appeal as when duke takes me out in public with handcuffs on, that no one but us can see (covered by a coat), or a buttplug in, or a tens unit on my pussy and he's zapping me ... Its much better when at least ONE other person knows that im acting like a SLUT under my clothes. At one of my fav conventions, a MFC friend came to visit and bought me some ben-wa balls while we were there. I went to the bathroom and slipped them in. He knew they were in.. i knew they were in.. and no one else knew. It was seriously fun!

With pizza shows - its that I'm exposing myself to a complete stranger. Even if he's aware ahead of time, it still feeds my exhibitionist tendencies.

And sometimes its simply the taboo aspect. I might be completely alone but I'm somewhere SO MUCH MORE interesting than my cam room/bedroom. Somewhere Non-sexual... that im making it kinky. LIke the carwash. THere's really NO chance that someone will see into my car .. but i only have like 1 minute to get off.. before the wash is done. Adrenalin rush.. and i get off on time limits..

"You have 10 seconds to cum or im taking the hitachi away fucktoy" ... yeah. ahem.

Of course it may be different for others.. but these are the things that make it exciting for me. I get BORED very easily with regular sex/sexual situations so I really try to make it interesting.. on cam and off.


And now im horny. Fuck.

 

[zippypinhead]

Time to hit the car wash, Lolli.