Scammed?

[Lover31660]

I'd disagree with your disagreement
common life? where does it start, where does it end? we can define these words all we want with the result that we are beating around the bush. Happens a lot in online discussions. I like to be able to disagree with you without offending you.


for me common ground is something else than common life. If I enter a models room we have common ground. But that means nothing more than having some fun. I have chosen to only share positive things with cammers in what I say and do. In that regard a viewer is just a fantasy for the model as a model is a fantasy for the viewer. There is enough negativity in my real life. Having a common life means sharing also the negative parts like fear, sorrow, death, disease and hate. So if someone wants to marry a cammer, does he want to share fear, sorrow, death, disease and hate with ...... a fantasy? Completely delusional. Granted, I needed my time to arrive at this conclusion. Luckily I never had THAT much money to spend or have other financial endeavors which were more important for me. So it might have been easier for me to arrive at this conclusion.

"Completely delusional. Granted, I needed my time to arrive at this conclusion. Luckily I never had THAT much money to spend or have other financial endeavors which were more important for me. So it might have been easier for me to arrive at this conclusion."

I can identify with this in my limited viewing. I was way to into the "person I like to watch" but came out of the fog after an IRL visit with some friends at the lake. Now I'm not digging the vibe of the room so I my limit my visits. Fantasy is fun, for a while

 

[misterical]

I'd disagree with your disagreement
common life? where does it start, where does it end? we can define these words all we want with the result that we are beating around the bush. Happens a lot in online discussions. I like to be able to disagree with you without offending you.


for me common ground is something else than common life. If I enter a models room we have common ground. But that means nothing more than having some fun. I have chosen to only share positive things with cammers in what I say and do. In that regard a viewer is just a fantasy for the model as a model is a fantasy for the viewer. There is enough negativity in my real life. Having a common life means sharing also the negative parts like fear, sorrow, death, disease and hate. So if someone wants to marry a cammer, does he want to share fear, sorrow, death, disease and hate with ...... a fantasy? Completely delusional. Granted, I needed my time to arrive at this conclusion. Luckily I never had THAT much money to spend or have other financial endeavors which were more important for me. So it might have been easier for me to arrive at this conclusion.

I disagree with your disagreement with my disagreement.

Common ground doesn't just relate to having fun. As humans we can totally relate to one another on all sorts of levels. Not everything is fake and fantasy nor does it need to be. Humans gravitate to and relate to each other on all levels and have done all throughout our existence. You can have all of that between a model and a member. It's only when you start believing she's going to marry you and you pay to have laminate flooring installed in her apartment that you've gone down the wormhole. There's a middle ground between viewing everything with suspicion and being scammed out of every penny you have.

 

[Lover31660]

I disagree with your disagreement with my disagreement.

Common ground doesn't just relate to having fun. As humans we can totally relate to one another on all sorts of levels. Not everything is fake and fantasy nor does it need to be. Humans gravitate to and relate to each other on all levels and have done all throughout our existence. You can have all of that between a model and a member. It's only when you start believing she's going to marry you and you pay to have laminate flooring installed in her apartment that you've gone down the wormhole. There's a middle ground between viewing everything with suspicion and being scammed out of every penny you have.

I totally agree. But if someone I view mentions money, that's it. And I'd have no problem telling them

 

[Marceline]

It's only when you start believing she's going to marry you and you pay to have laminate flooring installed in her apartment that you've gone down the wormhole.

Just wanted to point out, someone can pay for laminate flooring to be installed in a model’s apartment and that doesn’t mean he thinks she’s going to marry him or that he’s gone down the wormhole.

There’s subs that pay for models to get their houses redone or pay for them to have a lavish lifestyle because it’s their fetish. There’s also men who just genuinely enjoy giving attractive women money or buying them expensive things simply because they have the money and they enjoy making a beautiful woman happy, with no other expectations.

Not every man who spends a ton of money (which, “a lot of money” really differs from person to person. What someone thinks is a lot can be chump change to others) on a model is doing so because he thinks she’ll get with him, and not every model who receives that money is leading the member on.

 

[MarieElise]

And not every man has problems with the normal boundaries of cam sites. In fact, the majority don't. We just get to see an over represented sample of the "special cases" here.
Lot's of men use cam sites as they are intended.

ETA; Without all this needy bullshit, self-deception, and compulsive, addictive like behavior.
Followed closely by all this emo, stunted shirking of any and all responsibility for it.
Which then gets blamed on us. Sure some models don't recognize it, or do, and encourage it for cash. But that's an ethical issue, and not prevalent across the whole spectrum of all cam models.

 

[Marceline]

And not every man has problems with the normal boundaries of cam sites. In fact, the majority don't. We just get to see an over represented sample of the "special cases" here.
Lot's of men use cam sites as they are intended.

This!

When I cammed on MFC on a daily basis I had some regulars who would tip the same amount people on here say they spent when they were “scammed”.

I was cool with all of them and there was never any weird boundary crossing. In fact, I was in a committed relationship and my regulars knew that and it never changed the way we interacted or how they tipped. Maybe I’m just lucky, but I only ever had one very pushy regular (and that was in my early bb camgirl days) and he ended up getting blocked.

 

[Freddy_Fantastic]

Also, somewhat off topic, but I don’t think it’s always hard in a relationship when one person makes more than the other. I know quite a few couples where the man is the sole breadwinner and the woman is a stay at home wife/mother/girlfriend. They have good relationships because even if the woman isn’t bringing in any money, she still contributes to their shared lives in other ways.

Yes, and I find it strange that these kinds of relationships are often deemed backwards these days. It might sound conservative, but being a mother could very well be seen as the most important and difficult job in the world. The fact that it isn't payed changes nothing. The problem is that in the past and in may societies still, it was the only way for women to be seen as worthy and contributing. And I think that also accounts for the overpopulation we have now. If the only chance you have to be seen as good and productive is to make babies, you might be forced to make babies all the time. Except you are one of these hero pioneer women fighting for women rights in 1860 and are prepared to be burned alive.
I think we just have to stop telling people what they should do to be seen as a positive part in society. If we deprive our society of half the brainpower in science, culture etc. as we have in the past we won't be able to make it through the next century I believe. But the same happens if we think women should be so-called "progressive" and get no babies at all. A few feminists look down to mothers as backwards in my experience. I think that is very unfair. Its basically the same as before: telling people what they should do.

off topic-ing a bit more, sorry

 

[MarieElise]

This!

When I cammed on MFC on a daily basis I had some regulars who would tip the same amount people on here say they spent when they were “scammed”.

I was cool with all of them and there was never any weird boundary crossing. In fact, I was in a committed relationship and my regulars knew that and it never changed the way we interacted or how they tipped. Maybe I’m just lucky, but I only ever had one very pushy regular (and that was in my early bb camgirl days) and he ended up getting blocked.

I’ve had the same experience. I’ve had more than one get weird, but the majority have not, and have been cool, respectful people. I also regularly receive payments far bigger than most of the ones, the guys who come here moan about, and think are sooooooo large. Some people just aren’t suited for cam sites, and yet they go there anyway, and stir up a ton of trouble. Then seem to struggle so hard with just moving tf on

ETA; I will say of the several that did get weird, boundary crossing and just fucking strange, they were always low spenders and unremarkable clients. Whom I barely even noticed, prior to the mental behavior. Bar the one 5 account guy, who got insane after spending $0, and talking to me for ten seconds in free chat. He wasn’t a low spender; he was a non spender.

 

[Marceline]

Yes, and I find it strange that these kinds of relationships are often deemed backwards these days. It might sound conservative, but being a mother could very well be seen as the most important and difficult job in the world. The fact that it isn't payed changes nothing. The problem is that in the past and in may societies still, it was the only way for women to be seen as worthy and contributing. And I think that also accounts for the overpopulation we have now. If the only chance you have to be seen as good and productive is to make babies, you might be forced to make babies all the time. Except you are one of these hero pioneer women fighting for women rights in 1860 and are prepared to be burned alive.
I think we just have to stop telling people what they should do to be seen as a positive part in society. If we deprive our society of half the brainpower in science, culture etc. as we have in the past we won't be able to make it through the next century I believe. But the same happens if we think women should be so-called "progressive" and get no babies at all. A few feminists look down to mothers as backwards in my experience. I think that is very unfair. Its basically the same as before: telling people what they should do.

off topic-ing a bit more, sorry

Honest to god, I think the reason why some people feel so negatively about stay at home mothers is because they’re secretly jealous they can’t do the same or wish they didn’t have to work.

There was a subreddit I used to follow, but had to stop because of the way women were talking about other women who preferred to live more traditional lifestyles. There was a post about a woman who was showing off her new car and said how she was lucky to have a husband who provided for her like that, and the negativity and pure hateful comments other women were making just turned my stomach. I made a comment defending her and I got downvoted like crazy.

I’m all about women (and men) living their lives how they want, as long as they aren’t hurting anyone else. And personally, I one day plan on being a full time/stay at home mother and wife, because I know how emotionally fulfilling that can be.

 

[misterical]

Just wanted to point out, someone can pay for laminate flooring to be installed in a model’s apartment and that doesn’t mean he thinks she’s going to marry him or that he’s gone down the wormhole.

There’s subs that pay for models to get their houses redone or pay for them to have a lavish lifestyle because it’s their fetish. There’s also men who just genuinely enjoy giving attractive women money or buying them expensive things simply because they have the money and they enjoy making a beautiful woman happy, with no other expectations.

Not every man who spends a ton of money (which, “a lot of money” really differs from person to person. What someone thinks is a lot can be chump change to others) on a model is doing so because he thinks she’ll get with him, and not every model who receives that money is leading the member on.

Yeah, I guess anything can be a fetish but I'm sort of alluding to the OPs situation where it was clearly not his fetish. But as I've said before, I once saw a guy on a camsite who was into shagging anthills, so indeed, anything is possible.

 

[Marceline]

Yeah, I guess anything can be a fetish but I'm sort of alluding to the OPs situation where it was clearly not his fetish. But as I've said before, I once saw a guy on a camsite who was into shagging anthills, so indeed, anything is possible.

I figured you were just saying in general, and not alluding to the OP, since the post was about models and members having common ground. That part, imo, came off as “if a member pays to laminate a model’s floor (ie. spend a lot of money on a model), then he must have gone down the wormhole and believes she will marry him”.

And while I said it could be a fetish, I also said it could just be a member doing something because it brings him joy to bring a pretty lady joy. No expectations and no sexual incentives behind it.

There’s some good guys with money who just do things like that. Hell, I once had a guy stop in my room, who I never saw in my room before, drop a 7500+ token tip (I think 7575 or something like that, since that’s a package size MFC offers). I offered him some videos or to do something in return, and he was like “no need to do anything in return, just spreading the cheer” since it was around Christmas. Never saw him again.

I think it’s hard for people who don’t have a lot of expendable cash or who believe they should get something in return for their money (not necessarily saying that’s a bad thing) to understand stuff like that.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

George your situation seems so similar to mine, I assume you have cut off all contact?

I found this site and these threads about various guys falling in love with cam girls over a year ago now. I haven't posted much about my situation although I have wanted to. I don't post about this experience for sympathy or because I feel like I'm the victim, I take responsibility for my actions.

The reason I write about it is because 18 months ago when this was all starting, I wish I had found this site and read all of these threads and then perhaps I would have made better decisions. So I hope my experiences help others to make better decisions.

Back at the start of all this I was searching around and I took some bad advice off one website which was to leave the cam girl your WhatsApp number and see if she messages you, which I did do and obviously she messaged me and immediately asked for help to buy a Christmas present for her daughter, which I was happy to do.

I've been using webcam sites for 15 years on and off and usually I wouldn't even return to a girls room if I had already seen a show from them because there's literally 1000s of others that I hadn't seen. I don't know what came over me I just found a connection with this one girl.

I cut off all contact but it took longer than it should have. If I had trusted my instincts, I would have cut off the contact far sooner. If I had read other similar stories, it might have helped. But because I had emotions tied up in the situation, and she was so insistent, it took longer. there was also a period where I stopped giving any money, didn't go to her on a site, and took the position that I was under no obligation. I thought she would disappear really fast, but instead, she continued writing and calling, even sending messages like, "So, are you convinced yet? Or are you still going to let your friends make decisions for you?" That messed with me, I was like, "shit - is she really sincere? Am I making some kind of mistake?"

I got a bit lucky and found out a few things that were blatantly untrue and really didn't leave any wiggle room. I had to become convinced that she was one part sociopath and one part narcissist before I was finally like, "okay - done here." there were people on this forum who had read some of her messages and they apparently reached similar conclusions well ahead of me.

But I still believe that my situation, with a model blatantly willing to concoct and maintain a set of outlandish lies and go with them in a long-running con, is not "typical." The more common situations seem to be where guys post about being in love with a model, but when you dig into the details, the model never said or did much except be friendly and engage in flirty communication, as part of the job. I think that's more on the delusional side (or at least, wishful thinking) on the part of the member.

Hopefully you're not still entangled. It's difficult to rationalize the idea of even being "friends" with someone if the situation is built on lies and you don't know the truth of each other's lives.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

So if someone wants to marry a cammer, does he want to share fear, sorrow, death, disease and hate with ...... a fantasy? Completely delusional.

To get to a point that a member thinks he might want to marry a cammer, the member has to think he really knows the cammer. I think that's where the delusion comes in, because it's rare for the cammer to share her true self. The member might share his true feelings and tell everything about his actual life, but the cammer isn't. (Well, not in 99% of the situations). And you might even get a situation where the cammer wants the member to believe he really knows her, but for nefarious reasons.

There have been members and models who married, so obviously there are those uncommon situations where both parties are on the same page.

But my conclusion (and lesson learned) is: Even if there is a small (very small) chance of developing a true relationship in this context, the odds are so low and the risk so high of deception or disappointment, one shouldn't even entertain the idea.

ETA - sorry I'm writing about the cammer as female and the member as male, only because that's every situation I've read about that involves these topics. And also it's got to be at least 90% males who are members of sites.

 

[KingMarti]

To get to a point that a member thinks he might want to marry a cammer, the member has to think he really knows the cammer.

You would think so... but there's also people that have that level of obsession within 5 minutes of entering a room too.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

You would think so... but there's also people that have that level of obsession within 5 minutes of entering a room too.

That's just mentally ill dudes or severely screwed up personalities. But how common is that? Surely no one (other than them!) is going to give any credence to it if they claim they were "scammed" or misled.

 

[KingMarti]

That's just mentally ill dudes or severely screwed up personalities. But how common is that? Surely no one (other than them!) is going to give any credence to it if they claim they were "scammed" or misled.

In my experience it's more common than people developing that level of attachment over a period of time

 

[MarieElise]

That's just mentally ill dudes or severely screwed up personalities. But how common is that? Surely no one (other than them!) is going to give any credence to it if they claim they were "scammed" or misled.

George no offense, but it's very clear you have no idea what you are talking about. The over generalizations are wild. You clearly enjoy theorizing, but your hypothesis are awful.
I get it that this is a topic that is giving you a charge or energy or emo release or whatever to talk about, but a lot of what you are saying is pure and utter Hogswash.
It's difficult to read and not correct, knowing that other people come here looking for help, and will suck all of it up.
And it might become word in gullible circles, where people don't think critically, and keep getting themselves in trouble because of that reality.

ETA; I'm not sure what your job is, but let's say it's waste management.
Lets say you run a huge waste management firm in NY City, and have done for a decade.
Then someone who has an issue with a waste management service they received, comes to your place of work, and just starts spouting out garbage (lol) about everything you know true and dear (because they find it thrilling)... I'm sure you can see it's a tad irritating.
And it helps no one.

Also I think I actually read you trying to camsplain to Marceline earlier. She's been heavily involved in assisting people in these "in love w cam model" threads, consistently for years now.
You stopped by once, and are back again rambling on with unsubstantiated opinions.
You have not been present in any of these threads where we have all discussed things.
Just please stop already...

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

Sure some models don't recognize it, or do, and encourage it for cash. But that's an ethical issue, and not prevalent across the whole spectrum of all cam models.

I personally have said many times here that I don't think these situations come up very often. But I'm going to assume that everyone could agree: Unless there's some kind of role play that's been requested, if a model is persistently saying things to a member about wanting to take a trips together and go on dates, writing elaborate love letters, taking things offsite, etc., something's wrong on the model side of the equation. Even if the member has money, and is generous, it's already been pointed out that plenty of high spenders are generous without expecting anything. So there would be no need for a model to communicate like that, not to mention the ethical issue.

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

George no offense, but it's very clear you have no idea what you are talking about. The over generalizations are wild. You clearly enjoy theorizing, but your hypothesis are awful.
I get it that this is a topic that is giving you a charge or energy or emo release or whatever to talk about, but a lot of what you are saying is pure and utter Hogswash.
It's difficult to read and not correct, knowing that other people come here looking for help, and will suck all of it up.
And it might become word in gullible circles, where people don't think critically, and keep getting themselves in trouble because of that reality.

ETA; I'm not sure what your job is, but let's say it's waste management.
Lets say you run a huge waste management firm in NY City, and have done for a decade.
Then someone who has an issue with a waste management service they received, comes to your place of work, and just starts spouting out garbage (lol) about everything you know true and dear (because they find it thrilling)... I'm sure you can see it's a tad irritating.
And it helps no one.

Also I think I actually read you trying to camsplain to Marceline earlier. She's been heavily involved in assisting people in these "in love w cam model" threads, consistently for years now.
You stopped by once, and are back again rambling on.
You have not been present in any of these threads where we have all discussed things.
Just please stop already...

I've mainly talked about a long experience that I had. Whether you don't like hearing my "take" on the things I experienced or you don't like the opinions I formed from that, and from subsequent discussions with others, including many models, I really don't care. I didn't see any specific arguments from you about how any of my "hypotheses" are wrong or what I'm saying is "hogwash." Or what bad advice I've given anyone. I'm just seeing name calling.

I suspect it's because my experience didn't fit with the (maybe) more common situation where the member is delusional, crazy, lying, not seeing his role, having unjustified expections, etc. (and that the model was just doing her job in the face of a deluded or otherwise horrible customer). I think it's good for members who post here to hear from other members who've had experiences - not just models.

I didn't realize I was "mansplaining" to anyone. Are you "femsplaining" to me?

If you don't like my posts, there is an "ignore" button.

 

[misterical]

You would think so... but there's also people that have that level of obsession within 5 minutes of entering a room too.

I see guys all the time who declare "I love you" to a model within the one night and it's not "I love you" in a throwaway "You're great" sense. It's literally a declaration of love and they often get humpty if the model doesn't respond appropriately.

 

[AudriTwo]

I didn't realize I was "mansplaining" to anyone. Are you "femsplaining" to me?

yes, you are condescending.

 

[MarieElise]

I didn't bother reading his responses, I already knew what they'd be like given his tone, and all the stuff he's been saying thus far. I'm sure they are just more whack garbage.
I recognize the type.
They pester the fuck out of cam models, with little to no provocation, or indication of any interest whatsoever
They don't read or absorb anything you tell them, and keep walking around being delusional regardless. There's little to no point interacting w them at all.
It blows my mind that it's so easy to call and identify these types, and how similar they are to each other.
And they are always, without fail, condescending af. It must be part of the weird ego and delusion stuff.

 

[RVN]

I cut off all contact but it took longer than it should have. If I had trusted my instincts, I would have cut off the contact far sooner. If I had read other similar stories, it might have helped. But because I had emotions tied up in the situation, and she was so insistent, it took longer. there was also a period where I stopped giving any money, didn't go to her on a site, and took the position that I was under no obligation. I thought she would disappear really fast, but instead, she continued writing and calling, even sending messages like, "So, are you convinced yet? Or are you still going to let your friends make decisions for you?" That messed with me, I was like, "shit - is she really sincere? Am I making some kind of mistake?"

I got a bit lucky and found out a few things that were blatantly untrue and really didn't leave any wiggle room. I had to become convinced that she was one part sociopath and one part narcissist before I was finally like, "okay - done here." there were people on this forum who had read some of her messages and they apparently reached similar conclusions well ahead of me.

But I still believe that my situation, with a model blatantly willing to concoct and maintain a set of outlandish lies and go with them in a long-running con, is not "typical." The more common situations seem to be where guys post about being in love with a model, but when you dig into the details, the model never said or did much except be friendly and engage in flirty communication, as part of the job. I think that's more on the delusional side (or at least, wishful thinking) on the part of the member.

Hopefully you're not still entangled. It's difficult to rationalize the idea of even being "friends" with someone if the situation is built on lies and you don't know the truth of each other's lives.

I felt that I spent a lot of time carrying on with the contact in the hope that some day I would learn the truth or catch her out. It's the thought of leaving something behind and having the feeling of what if.

But in truth it's been over a year since she was on the cam sites and I've only spoken to her on video call about 2 or 3 times since she left the studio. It's only WhatsApp messages these days.

I can tell when she's after money because I'll get a message as soon as she wakes up (I'm 5 or 6 hours ahead depending on the time of year) followed by her taking more of an interest in my life than usual, then after a few messages back and forth "love I was wondering if you could help me with something".

 

[RVN]

On the plus side I have learned to speak Spanish

 

[Vixxen81]

"A fool and their money will soon be parted." - P.T. Barnum

It works on both sides of the aisle, if a model doesn't hustle she doesn't win and if you aren't gullible...there's no hustle.

 

[Lover31660]

"A fool and their money will soon be parted." - P.T. Barnum

It works on both sides of the aisle, if a model doesn't hustle she doesn't win and if you aren't gullible...there's no hustle.

A sucker born every minute?

 

[GeorgeSpelvin]

I felt that I spent a lot of time carrying on with the contact in the hope that some day I would learn the truth or catch her out.

It sounds like you learned the truth early on, you just didn't want to believe it. Like I said, I ignored a lot of question marks and red flags, too. It's par for the course with people who are involved in romance scams. They always later remember doubts they had, but ignored.

Outright catching her out, like in "proof" doesn't usually happen unless it gets to the point where they've taken a lot of money over a long period and then vanish completely. I was able to find out for sure what was going on, but it was luck. She got greedy and sloppy. I guess trying to run cons like that with several people at the same time can start to get confusing.

followed by her taking more of an interest in my life than usual, then after a few messages back and forth "love I was wondering if you could help me with something".

Laughed at this, because this wording is so similar to lines I got all the time. Would start with the usual terms of endearment and maybe some talk about a future trip, but then there would be a statement like, "Honey, it's been tough, costs are worsening here. I was wondering if you could help a little with an unexpected car repair." Or a need for new winter boots. Or you name it. lol

There was a manual that got leaked from some studio overseas (I'm thinking it was Romania or other Eastern European country) several years back. I only came across it about a year ago. I can't remember the site where I saw it. very interesting if you ever find it. It doesn't directly suggest scamming customers, at least not so overtly, but it is revealing to see behind the curtain of how they were training the models in that environment.

On the plus side I have learned to speak Spanish

Always good to find a silver lining!

 

[RVN]

There was a manual that got leaked from some studio overseas (I'm thinking it was Romania or other Eastern European country) several years back. I only came across it about a year ago. I can't remember the site where I saw it. very interesting if you ever find it. It doesn't directly suggest scamming customers, at least not so overtly, but it is revealing to see behind the curtain of how they were training the models in that environment.

Yes funnily enough I have read about this manual on an anti-porn site but I was unable to find it.

 

[Lover31660]

I'd love to see it

 

[RVN]

I saw it mentioned on a forum called "No Fap" which I found about the same time as I found this site. The thread that it was mentioned in was quite old and was unable to find it.