Preferential treatment of customers by unsteady camgirls

[Azhrarn]

@Ann_Sulu - The OP is an ordinary premium member relating to cam girls, so that is the situation I'm addressing. I am aware of the situation you're describing, but since it involves cam girls interacting with other cam girls, it falls outside the scope of my remarks. However, I could still ask you the same question: "Are you normally in the habit of tipping your female friends [who are not cam girls] for sex shows"? I think not.

And yeah I know every stripper and every cam girl goes through at least occasional dry spells. One thing I think they have in common though, is that both types of women often strive for financial independence from men. Before I was speaking more in terms of effects, now I'm speaking more in terms of causes, but the end result is the same. They are not looking for a man to take care of them.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn Again, these camming relationships are a combo of several types of relationships. And though I don't pay my friends for sex, I do treat them on occasion. If you combine that with internet stripping than yeah...like I said, it's just another way of looking at it.

As for the financial independence thing...I think everyone should strive to feel financially independent. It's not so much an issue of wanting to feel free from a man, but being responsible. Let's say you're in a relationship where you're the breadwinner, your taking care of your stay-at-home s/o and then one day you lose your job. THAT'S the reason we do what we do. It's just not financially reasonable or responsible to be a housewife anymore. *shrug

 

[Azhrarn]

@Ann_Sulu I went back and re-read your remarks again, because honestly I sort of zoned out after reading "many cam girls are friends of other cam girls." And I understand what you're saying. But once again I will remind you that the OP is a premium member hoping to "go live" with a cam girl, and so that is the situation I'm addressing. Yes, I could complicate matters if I wanted to, but I'm trying to keep my argument as clean as possible so my point doesn't get obscured, and it's simply this: Yeah, if you first meet a girl in a strip club or in an MFC chat room, yes, there's going to be some tipping going on. Yes, you're going to start off interacting as customer and stripper/cam girl. That's the setting, or the societal framework within which you first meet. But if you actually start to become friends in any real sense, even if there is no real world contact, then at the very least you have to break out of that customer/cam girl framework, which means the interactions can't be driven by or dependent upon tipping, and both sides have to drop their masks and reveal their true personalities, life situations, etc.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn Ok, let me put it a different way. Camsites aren't dating sites. Yes, it happens on occasion where members and models get together, but that type of relationship is rare and hard to do. Generally from models I know who've seemed to succeed at it, it seems to be the camgirl who has to initiate it, after being close to the member for a while. This situation doesn't sound like it's turning into that anytime soon. I yes, have heard of camgirls telling members not to tip if they are romantically interested in them, however that'a after both are clear they aren't "just camsite friends." I'm not talking about phone too or whatever. I mean like have had a real discussion of an actual romance blooming where they "might" be willing to move in together.

Not saying the model in question is lying, but in general I'd just like to say that even if a camgirl says she's single, even if he has her phone number skype etc. She still may have a boyfriend, and just not want to say so. Perhaps she just doesn't want to get asked how many times a day she was fucked, or other personal questions about her s/o. I've heard of this happening many times where camgirls are sick of explaining things about the guy when he's possibly able to hear it all in the next room.

I didn't really read it as if he thought that he felt he would wind up meeting with her, insomuch that he felt as if he wasn't getting fair treatment in her room.

As for what you said about the friend offline vs online situation...I feel as though the majority of the time I'm more open with people about myself online than offline. Anything I'm not open about is strictly related to personal info such as location, real name, ID's etc.

True story-I remember when I and my (now ex) husband were sending out wedding invites. I've never went by my first name, and I rarely if ever brought up my last name. My actual name was used for the wedding invites, and my friends blew up both of our phones wondering what the hell happened, who this new bitch was, and why he was marrying her?! XD

Point is it might be different for some cammers out there, but my "mask" of Ann_Sulu gives me the courage to be a lot more honest/frank than I likely would be in a public atmosphere. Sure there are some that fake a persona, but they also are normally obvious and don't cam often...way to draining to do a fake persona all the time.

 

[Serenity_Tam]

I can't speak for what other cam girls do, but I would like to offer my perspective on how I handle things.

I do not always take requests from members, but an hour later or day later may accept a similar request from another member. This includes denying requests from my wonderful regs, random members, and cam acquaintances.
I have never denied because "gosh golly we are friends, you seeing me shove stuff in my vajay is weird now!" or "But we are like BFFs, you pay me for nothing and it's weird for you to see me be saucy and sexual!" But basis that I do deny that may seem that way are: I am simply not in the mood for the specific way you dirty talk me, or the specific vibe we have together at that very moment, I may be in the mood another day for that. Another member brings a different mood, may not dirty talk or treats me in a different way and in that moment I want that so I may accept his request over yours. My assumption is no one wants to watch me fake it, and I certainly don't want to either so I would rather see someone get a little butthurt than for me to compromise my values. Or more simply, I just don't feel like doing that on the specific day. If a member was denied on those basis and was a reg I tend to let them know when I am ready, if that is the dynamic we have, and if not I would be okay with a member asking me to let them know when I am feeling it.

I have a tip menu that any member can tip from, I can understand a member taking issue if they tipped from my menu and I didn't perform. Hell I would be mad at me. I might be a dick, but never that much of one. If you are in the position of tipping from a menu and the model is not performing I would lean towards the side of she is taking advantage of you.

 

[Azhrarn]

@Ann_Sulu - The OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but when a guy says his intentions are "romantic/sexual" I assume he's referring to a real-world hookup. And no, I don't think his situation will be turning into that anytime soon either.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn fair enough. I took it more as he had a crush, and wished to participate with them through camsites for sexy things. Perhaps I was wrong. However, I still stand behind that no member should think of camsites as dating sites. If he is thinking of it that way, then THAT might be the reason she friend-zoned him. She might be thinking he needs to calm it down, and learn how to just be a regular member-friend in her chat.

 

[Azhrarn]

@AzhrarnHowever, I still stand behind that no member should think of camsites as dating sites.

I'm pretty sure a lot of members think of it that way. lol

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn Eh understand, but yeah...the penis believes what it wants to believe I guess.

 

[Azhrarn]

@Azhrarn Eh understand, but yeah...the penis believes what it wants to believe I guess.

And the vagina believes what it wants to believe. I consistently get the feeling that you aren't really understanding what the OP is saying. How exactly is he supposed to "calm down" when he's in her chat room watching her do sexy stuff in public and group and private, knowing that she's catering to the wishes of others but not to him? Why do you think he created this thread? Did you even notice the title he gave to this thread?

There's a reason I stated in my very first post that it's best to not get feelings involved. Granted his later posts are more than a little confusing, but surely I'm not the only one who can read between the lines of his first post? Having him remain in her chat room might help her out token-wise, but I don't believe it would do anything beneficial for him.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn I regretted putting penis too late for edit, wishing I had said libido if that makes any difference.

Of course I saw the title. I'd rather see want @justjoinedtopost has to comment on it, before assuming too much one way or another though.

I may have been naive in thinking that he merely felt left out as a regular member in her chat, who happened to also think of himself as close with her.

I read it as in the right circumstances he'd love it to have the potential to become more, but it seemed he was more just wanting to know why he wasn't getting what the other guys were getting.

Yeah, if you're right. He could be in the "danger-zone" and perhaps should step away from camsites, but yeah, that was a bit more extreme than how I read it.

He says in the end he's wanting to know why they treat him different, so yeah maybe I'm way off but I still don't quite see it being that way.

 

[Teagan]

Yeah, if you first meet a girl in a strip club or in an MFC chat room, yes, there's going to be some tipping going on. Yes, you're going to start off interacting as customer and stripper/cam girl. That's the setting, or the societal framework within which you first meet. But if you actually start to become friends in any real sense, even if there is no real world contact, then at the very least you have to break out of that customer/cam girl framework, which means the interactions can't be driven by or dependent upon tipping,

I am going to put this out there as a general rule: If a cam girl expects money to interact with you, she doesn’t think of you as a friend. And if you give a woman money to perform for you sexually, you don’t think of her as a friend either.

I take issue with a lot of what you have said including that strippers have few if any inhibitions (dont know where the hell you get this from) but for the sake of staying on topic i'll just respond to the quoted stuff.

Why should someone expecting a person to do their job not pay for that job being done just cause they are friends? That's not fair at all.

When I go out to eat and get a friend to wait on me or is the bartender you better believe I still tip them. They're at work and doing their job and should be compensated for such. Friend or not. I tip amazingly well but for a friend I actually tip even more. Not nothing just cause I know them outside of the setting we are currently in. And similarly when I waited tables my friends still tipped me for waiting on them or when I tended the bar. For them not to just cause they knew me would have been shitty of them. And usually they tipped even more cause we were friends. So going in to a cam girls room and getting serviced by her (talking, attention, entertainment, teasing, and maybe sexy shows) and expecting to tip her nothing just cause you now know her is shitty. Shes at work. Shes doing her job at work. And she deserves to be tipped just as much if not more cause she is your friend. Not nothing. That's like punishing her instead. Expecting her to perform her job for you still while your tipping has gone to zero is uncalled for.

Friendship doesnt mean your new friend does everything for you for free all of a sudden. If you discuss it and are both in agreement for you to not tip any further then that is fine but dont expect them to still do their job for you. Now if you discussed it and are both in agreement for the tipping to stop cause their is mutual feelings then fine but dont you dare still go to their job and want things for free (videos, requests, watching shows, etc) cause that's shitty too, and you probably should stop visiting her room all together. Let her work and hustle and focus on that and on you when it's free time.

Theres so many members who try to move the relationship to friends or more without even discussing it with the cam lady on the other end. They figure in their own head "well were friends now, or more maybe" and they stop tipping completely and demand the same attention as if they were. Even try demanding videos and such too as if they somehow deserve it. Then they get pissy when their attention is not the same level as it was and they cant fathom why it happened. They dont like hearing "well i'm not taking your requests cause you didnt tip for them, or Im not sending the vid but if you want it it's 300 tokens." (Not like we love saying it either just fyi.) Then they pull the "but were friends," or "i thought i meant more to you than a wallet," as a way to manipulate or guilt trip the girl into feeling bad. And when told "yes were friends but I still am at work here," they get even more pissy about it. And it makes no sense. You treat friends BETTER than strangers, not WORSE by expecting and demanding they do their job for free. And you dont move your relationship with a cam girl in to a no tipping friendship or relationship without her consent either.

 

[Joeternal]

I don't know this guy or the models in question, so I can only go on what he said. If he is indeed regularly talking to them by phone and on Skype without paying for it (very important qualifier there), it could be that they feel close enough to him that they don't feel comfortable doing shows for him. The dynamic I've experienced is, "You can be my friend, or you can be a perv.You can't have it both ways." Now in this guy's case, it could be that he's tipping them a lot and getting special treatment, but he's getting turned down because they don't like his particular brand of perving. But I don't want to make assumptions about people I don't know.

Anyway, in the more general sense, it's always a complicated situation. You will see models say, "it's not a dating site", but I have had more than one suggest otherwise. And obviously there have been some examples that are public knowledge, specifically involving one model and a particular celebrity. It would probably be better for those models to say "I won't do it", than to pretend it's somehow off limits on the site. When it comes to MFC, that blurring of the line between fantasy and reality is probably the reason why it's the most popular site. You could say it's a porn site, or you could say it's a social network, just like Facebook (it actually seems to have been based heavily on MySpace) and you would be right in both cases. Ever since I first went there, this has been their stated policy:

Exchanging contact information with models
Members and models are free to exchange e-mail addresses or other contact information. Many of our users and models have formed great relationships, friendships, and marriages, so we would never want to get in the way of that with rules or restrictions.

So it's wide open, where the models and members can make it whatever they want. Which is the appeal, and also the thing that makes the relationships there so complicated.

 

[Azhrarn]

Anyway, in the more general sense, it's always a complicated situation. You will see models say, "it's not a dating site", but I have had more than one suggest otherwise.

Just want to quickly chime in here, I know of examples where cam girls have suggested getting together for dinner or such with members. It does happen. In my experience lots of cam girls say one thing on their profiles or in public chat, but once you get to know them you find out things are different.

 

[JickyJuly]

I think this thread is complicating something very simple: the price of getting to know someone is that they know you. Hehehe. If I take privates on Streamate with someone I know and like, I am WAY more likely to be a little laid back. On the plus side, I am enjoying that person. It probably will mean that the time will be fun to both parties. On the negative side, I'm also more likely to randomly mention something or get distracted or laugh longer if something goes wrong... who knows. There are pluses and minuses to getting a real human experience.

I also have people I get to know and dislike. It's all minuses for them. Hehehe.

Either way, it's a genie that can never be put back in the lamp.

 

[Joeternal]

Just want to quickly chime in here, I know of examples where cam girls have suggested getting together for dinner or such with members. It does happen. In my experience lots of cam girls say one thing on their profiles or in public chat, but once you get to know them you find out things are different.

Well, there is a wide spectrum. There are many cam girls who are very hardcore, "I'm only in it for the money" types who just want to get their tips, do their shows and log off, and keep the interaction to a minimum. That's their right. There are others who are completely themselves, and open and honest about their lives to the point where they freely give out personal information, use their real first names, etc.

The ones I personally dislike the are the ones who pretend to be "real" friends with people for the sole purpose of getting their money, when in reality they do not remotely give a crap about that person. That could be this guy's situation, and he should be aware of the possibility. Unfortunately, some of the highest ranked models on MFC fall into that category.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

Just want to quickly chime in here, I know of examples where cam girls have suggested getting together for dinner or such with members. It does happen. In my experience lots of cam girls say one thing on their profiles or in public chat, but once you get to know them you find out things are different.

Saying a camsite is a dating site, is like saying Hooters is the place to meet single women. Sure some might be single, but they get hit on all the time. It's best you just let it not be awkward, and if they feel chemistry, they'll let you know. The site having that may as well be a casino letting you know some people hit the jackpot.

Either way, it's a genie that can never be put back in the lamp.

THIS! If anything gets too difficult to deal with, you can't just go back to how it was. Keeping it as just a pay to play site, and seeing where it leads is I think the best way to go.

 

[Serenity_Tam]

Well, there is a wide spectrum. There are many cam girls who are very hardcore, "I'm only in it for the money" types who just want to get their tips, do their shows and log off, and keep the interaction to a minimum. That's their right. There are others who are completely themselves, and open and honest about their lives to the point where they freely give out personal information, use their real first names, etc.

The ones I personally dislike the are the ones who pretend to be "real" friends with people for the sole purpose of getting their money, when in reality they do not remotely give a crap about the person. That could be this guy's situation, and he should be aware of the possibility. Unfortunately, some of the highest ranked models on MFC fall into that category.

You are kidding yourself if you think any cam girl no matter how rad she is isn't there for the dollars. At least on major cam sites, this is our job.You can still be friends with someone and get paid. >.>

 

[Azhrarn]

Saying a camsite is a dating site...

Pretty sure I've never said or even suggested that a cam site is a dating site. In fact I'm pretty darn sure I've consistently said the exact opposite. I would have absolutely no interest in meeting 99.99% of the women on MFC and would actually be upset if any of them tried to suggest it. Read between the lines please.

 

[Joeternal]

You are kidding yourself if you think any cam girl no matter how rad she is isn't there for the dollars. At least on major cam sites, this is our job.You can still be friends with someone and get paid. >.>

Right, but it's all about how they go about it. If a model would normally treat a member like dirt, but she treats him well and pretends to like him because he tips a lot, that's where the problems come in. Again, I don't know enough about the OP to say that's his situation.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Azhrarn Gah...I meant to also have @Joeternal in that (not used to quotes with the new layout I guess)

 

[Joeternal]

Saying a camsite is a dating site, is like saying Hooters is the place to meet single women. Sure some might be single, but they get hit on all the time. It's best you just let it not be awkward, and if they feel chemistry, they'll let you know. The site having that may as well be a casino letting you know some people hit the jackpot.



THIS! If anything gets too difficult to deal with, you can't just go back to how it was. Keeping it as just a pay to play site, and seeing where it leads is I think the best way to go.

@Azhrarn Gah...I meant to also have @Joeternal in that (not used to quotes with the new layout I guess)

The problem with your tone here is that you seem to be accusing the member of doing something wrong if he expresses interest in you outside of the site. I don't think that's fair. I've had several models over time suggest getting together offline, but I wasn't interested. There is one that I've basically said, "if you were ever interested in getting together offline, I might be too". And that's it. I don't see anything wrong with any of those cases. As I showed you, on MFC, that is something they explicitly endorse.

If somebody starts harassing you, you can ban them and move on. But if the guy is normal and cool and you're not interested, you should just politely say no, as you would in any other situation.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Wound up talking with the both of them more about this. Here is what I gathered...

In the case of one, it was apparently performance anxiety related. She was worried about getting it wrong for me. She agreed to the request, but then froze up.

In the case of the other, a breakdown in communication. Back when she first started, her limits were wayyy different. She wouldn't even get nude. Too shy. Told me she would never play with a toy on cam. She got comfortable with the idea, but didn't get comfortable with the idea of me knowing about it. If I hadn't wandered in on a private, I probably still wouldn't know . She said that she was worried if I found out I wouldn't like her anymore, and it was some of the things I said early on that left her with that impression. She is smart; she listened to what I said, and concluded "He likes nice girls, so when I am with him I need to be a nice girl." Having a little trouble letting go of that idea from the sounds of it.

Bless their hearts, the both of them (assuming they are not full of shit).

Back to the OP.
It sounds like you got the issue resolved.
I think both explanations sound pretty plausible. I know I've talked to other guys who have had communication issues on various occasions with the second.
New camgirl establish boundaries, part of her appeal is her innocence. Many of her regulars will say that they are supportive of those boundaries. In some case because they really prefer more softcore porn. (I think most guys have some limits to what they find sexy). In many other cases we say that because we don't want the girl to feel pressured to do more than she is comfortable, but secretly we think it would be hot if she did.
As time goes by the camgirl grows more comfortable with trying new things, especially cause the money is better. But she has no way of knowing which guys who said "I think anal is gross" actually meant it and how many said that just to be nice.

My favorite example was a few years ago when a new popular camgirl said she never lick another girls pussy or do anal. A number of her regulars went on say they didn't like girl girl shows. Which I found pretty amazing cause at least two of the guys were tipping pretty at g/g shows. Six months later when the camgirl was doing both almost all the regulars were still around, although one guy very publicly got pissed at her for doing g/g shows.

 

[Azhrarn]

I take issue with a lot of what you have said including that strippers have few if any inhibitions (dont know where the hell you get this from) but for the sake of staying on topic i'll just respond to the quoted stuff.

Why should someone expecting a person to do their job not pay for that job being done just cause they are friends? That's not fair at all.

When I go out to eat and get a friend to wait on me or is the bartender you better believe I still tip them. They're at work and doing their job and should be compensated for such. Friend or not. I tip amazingly well but for a friend I actually tip even more. Not nothing just cause I know them outside of the setting we are currently in. And similarly when I waited tables my friends still tipped me for waiting on them or when I tended the bar. For them not to just cause they knew me would have been shitty of them. And usually they tipped even more cause we were friends. So going in to a cam girls room and getting serviced by her (talking, attention, entertainment, teasing, and maybe sexy shows) and expecting to tip her nothing just cause you now know her is shitty. Shes at work. Shes doing her job at work. And she deserves to be tipped just as much if not more cause she is your friend. Not nothing. That's like punishing her instead. Expecting her to perform her job for you still while your tipping has gone to zero is uncalled for.

Friendship doesnt mean your new friend does everything for you for free all of a sudden. If you discuss it and are both in agreement for you to not tip any further then that is fine but dont expect them to still do their job for you. Now if you discussed it and are both in agreement for the tipping to stop cause their is mutual feelings then fine but dont you dare still go to their job and want things for free (videos, requests, watching shows, etc) cause that's shitty too, and you probably should stop visiting her room all together. Let her work and hustle and focus on that and on you when it's free time.

Theres so many members who try to move the relationship to friends or more without even discussing it with the cam lady on the other end. They figure in their own head "well were friends now, or more maybe" and they stop tipping completely and demand the same attention as if they were. Even try demanding videos and such too as if they somehow deserve it. Then they get pissy when their attention is not the same level as it was and they cant fathom why it happened. They dont like hearing "well i'm not taking your requests cause you didnt tip for them, or Im not sending the vid but if you want it it's 300 tokens." (Not like we love saying it either just fyi.) Then they pull the "but were friends," or "i thought i meant more to you than a wallet," as a way to manipulate or guilt trip the girl into feeling bad. And when told "yes were friends but I still am at work here," they get even more pissy about it. And it makes no sense. You treat friends BETTER than strangers, not WORSE by expecting and demanding they do their job for free. And you dont move your relationship with a cam girl in to a no tipping friendship or relationship without her consent either.

Strippers are very direct, and it is absolutely true that if they like you they will take you home and fuck your brains out the same night you meet them. As for what I know about strippers, I lived in Las Vegas for a dozen years.

As for the rest of your post, we’re discussing apples and oranges. To me a friend is someone who I have a real relationship with, and by real I mean I know your real name, your real personality, and occasionally we get together and do stuff like make conversation over lunch.

I don’t consider a cam girl I interact with to be a friend. At most I might consider her an acquaintance, just as I would consider my coworkers or neighbors to be acquaintances. But beyond that, I just don’t believe in paying friends for sex. And it’s not necessarily that I think sex work is inherently different from other types of work. If you view sex as a purely physical act, and yeah, I know many do nowadays, in this age where people order booty calls on Tinder like I order pizza, then perhaps people can become friends with sex workers in a real sense.

But I can’t. To me sex has to be more than just physical, and you can’t pay someone to have certain feelings for you. Every time I became friends with a stripper, it always went the same way. I very quickly learned their real names, got their phone numbers, and made plans for a lunch date or dinner date or whatever. And I completely stopped visiting them at work, or tipping them, unless they specifically requested it. As joeternal says, when you start being a friend, you stop being a customer.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Joeternal Sorry if I came off harsh, because I know some sites do market through dating sites, and I find it terrible that they do that. However, I feel as soon as members see prices that models are setting, that should be a good tip off that she's there for money.

 

[StacySins]

Strippers are very direct, and it is absolutely true that if they like you they will take you home and fuck your brains out the same night you meet them. As for what I know about strippers, I lived in Las Vegas for a dozen years.

Some strippers may do that, the majority probably won't.

 

[Joeternal]

@Joeternal Sorry if I came off harsh, because I know some sites do market through dating sites, and I find it terrible that they do that. However, I feel as soon as members see prices that models are setting, that should be a good tip off that she's there for money.

I don't know about every cam site. I posted what MFC's policy is above. They specifically endorse models and members "taking things offline" if they so choose. It's not right to accuse the member of doing something wrong under those rules. It's just real life. If a guy asks a girl out, she can say yes or no. It really is that simple.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

@Joeternal I'm not at all saying it's wrong that they choose to meet up elsewhere. I was simply saying that as soon as a guy sees pricing to not think she was there simply do to her being single and horny looking for someone to date.

 

[Joeternal]

Some strippers may do that, the majority probably won't.

Strippers and cam girls are generally very different.

 

[Joeternal]

@Joeternal I'm not at all saying it's wrong that they choose to meet up elsewhere. I was simply saying that as soon as a guy sees pricing to not think she was there simply do to her being single and horny looking for someone to date.

Of course, obviously. It's like any situation where a woman works in a social environment. Full disclosure, I had a girlfriend in the past who worked at Hooters. Guess where I met her? At Hooters. She was our waitress.