Member Privacy

[Joeternal]

Because of things in the news lately, I wonder. To what degree are cam girls obligated to maintain the privacy of their customers? Obviously it would be bad for the whole business if it got a reputation for not being private, but if a cam girl didn't care and was quitting, could she just dump whatever private info/conversations/etc she had with a member if she felt like it? Or is she contractually obligated not to? I assume the site could be sued, but would that stop an individual model?

There are a few celebrities who have been rumored on MyFreecams, and at least one known, although he was photographed and reported by outside gossip sites to be dating a cam girl, so he presumably was fine with it being public.

Would be interested to hear about this from cam girls who know the situation from the inside.

 

[Joeternal]

Past edit time. Should add, obviously this is not the same as sexual harassment in a non-adult-entertainment workplace, but if a model just wanted to hurt somebody for whatever reason, I'm wondering what the rules are.

 

[NoelleBright]

When it comes down to it the average member's information isn't important or interesting to anyone at all, so there's no benefit to a model releasing it. If you're talking about blackmailing a member with his information, that's illegal and a fetish model did recently run into trouble with this so there are definitely repercussions to anyone who is big enough of an asshole to try to pull something like that.

Plenty of models have contact with celebrities though, but even in Models Only I've never once seen a name shared or any hints dropped. If anyone mentions anything at all about someone famous it's the most vague thing ever like "athlete" or "musician" and everyone leaves it at that. There are definitely a few famous people who are more obvious about partaking in the adult industry and follow camgirls/pornstars on twitter and that's generally where the public rumors get started.
Celebrities who share their info with models in confidence have always had it kept private, at least from what I've witnessed.
I think the biggest scandal in regards to "fame" was Aria Nina and that mormon youtube vlogger, so.

 

[dilligaf0]

One problem with a model that's "quitting" releasing information about members is that it can backfire. A member could conceivably have enough information on a model to harm her chances of getting good jobs or damage her relationship with her family and friends.
Doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.

 

[Joeternal]

I think the biggest scandal in regards to "fame" was Aria Nina and that mormon youtube vlogger, so.

Wasn't aware of that. So apparently they can do whatever they want. Or is it only off site contact they can release?

 

[NoelleBright]

Wasn't aware of that. So apparently they can do whatever they want. Or is it only off site contact they can release?

I've honestly never read anything in my model contracts in regards to member information and releasing it, to be honest with you.

What happened between them specifically was entirely off-site, though.

 

[Phoenix4987]

It really ain't that serious. Whatever information you willingly give to a stranger online must not have been that important anyway. If it is important, then maybe need to rethink how you use/visit camsites if you're paranoid of scandalous jezebel hussies :lol.

 

[Joeternal]

Googled it and got up to speed. He wasn't even a member, just DM'd her on Twitter, got dirty, was rude to her, so she destroyed his entire life. Wow.

MFC's Terms say they will only release your information in response to a subpoena, and that they own everything, including chat logs. Not sure what that then means a model can or cannot release from the site.

Anything offsite, unless those sites have rules against it, is apparently fair game.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Are you asking if we have any legally binding non-disclosure agreements? If so, no, we don't have something like that. We aren't your lawyer or your doctor. If you tell us shit, we're permitted to repeat it, just like there's nothing protecting us if you share anything that we reveal on cam. That said, you guys never tell us anything worth sharing, and you usually know way more about us than we know about you, so...

In terms of images, we technically shouldn't be releasing any images of you unless we have a signed release from you. I would think that something like that would be subject to privacy and revenge porn laws. Even so, I can't think of any instance where a cam model said she wanted to post a pic of a customer (whereas there are loads of guys begging us to post humiliating pics of them).

What very well can and does happen is that if you say something particularly stupid, irritating, funny, or weird, we might screenshot it and post it here (or possibly on social media). Your username may or may not be hidden in those instances.

Also, anything you text or DM to any other human is fair game to be released - texts and social media aren't privileged or private communication methods. So the Aria Nina thing really doesn't have much to do with us. That could have happened if he was messaging a housewife or woman of any other profession.

Basically, don't give a cam girl your identifying info. Don't tell her things that you absolutely don't want to get out, even though it's extremely unlikely that she would share anything you said. Try to be sufficiently courteous so that we don't feel the need to make an example of you on forums. It's pretty simple stuff.

 

[CoffeeKnight]

When writing a PM or DM just ask yourself if you could stand to hear it read back during your Senate confirmation hearing before clicking send. lol

Seriously though I don't have a strong expectation of privacy with models. I doubt they are building dossiers on members though. Rarely are members that important to even bother. With any kind of sex work I think there is just an unspoken promise of privacy if for no other reason then it would be bad for their business.

 

[Joeternal]

Are you asking if we have any legally binding non-disclosure agreements? If so, no, we don't have something like that. We aren't your lawyer or your doctor. If you tell us shit, we're permitted to repeat it, just like there's nothing protecting us if you share anything that we reveal on cam. That said, you guys never tell us anything worth sharing, and you usually know way more about us than we know about you, so...

In terms of images, we technically shouldn't be releasing any images of you unless we have a signed release from you. I would think that something like that would be subject to privacy and revenge porn laws. Even so, I can't think of any instance where a cam model said she wanted to post a pic of a customer (whereas there are loads of guys begging us to post humiliating pics of them).

What very well can and does happen is that if you say something particularly stupid, irritating, funny, or weird, we might screenshot it and post it here (or possibly on social media). Your username may or may not be hidden in those instances.

Also, anything you text or DM to any other human is fair game to be released - texts and social media aren't privileged or private communication methods. So the Aria Nina thing really doesn't have much to do with us. That could have happened if he was messaging a housewife or woman of any other profession.

Basically, don't give a cam girl your identifying info. Don't tell her things that you absolutely don't want to get out, even though it's extremely unlikely that she would share anything you said. Try to be sufficiently courteous so that we don't feel the need to make an example of you on forums. It's pretty simple stuff.

MFC's Terms of Use (which appears to apply to models and members) includes a rule against releasing anyone else's personally identifiable information. The punishment there may be deleting your account, which would be bad for the model. So if you took content from the site, and tied it to a member whose personal info you had from outside, I think that could also result in deletion. Not sure if it has any other consequence, like a potential lawsuit.

 

[Fatquack]

Depending on your location and what info you release you can get in trouble with local laws regarding privacy, harassment, stalking, bullying, etc.
Not to mention that annoying someone who has deeper pockets than you is rarely a good idea.

 

[Joeternal]

Depending on your location and what info you release you can get in trouble with local laws regarding privacy, harassment, stalking, bullying, etc.
Not to mention that annoying someone who has deeper pockets than you is rarely a good idea.

I could maybe understand her sending it directly to his wife. But releasing it all publicly on Twitter is nuts. And she said was not totally putting him off, she was basically playing along cam girl style with his "sexting". So it wasn't a one way street.

I think if you release any info you get through MFC, at a minimum it can get your account deleted. Not sure about legal action. Twitter may or may not be a different story.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

MFC's Terms of Use (which appears to apply to models and members) includes a rule against releasing anyone else's personally identifiable information. The punishment there may be deleting your account, which would be bad for the model. So if you took content from the site, and tied it to a member whose personal info you had from outside, I think that could also result in deletion. Not sure if it has any other consequence, like a potential lawsuit.

I agree that if you outright doxx someone, especially in your cam room, there would be repercussions from the cam site. If you somehow had very private info, such as their credit card number (yes, some customers want to give us their cc info), there are probably legal issues for giving that out (facilitating credit card fraud?).

But if I just went on twitter and said "Hey, @RealnameMcFamousface is one of my best tippers on MFC, but I'll never tell what his screen name is!"... I don't know how that would go down. Maybe some action from MFC? I don't know what legal statute you'd use to file a lawsuit. It's not exactly slander if it's true, especially if Mr McFamousface volunteered the info himself.

This is mostly a moot point because we want to keep getting $$ from Realname McFamousface. We also want $$ from Wellknown Otherdude. It is not in our best interests to run around outting either of them. Even when quitting the industry, our goal is to quietly slide back under the radar and resume a vanilla life. Outting someone and getting headlines is counterproductive.

In general, use normal internet common sense when dealing with cam models. And if you're a famous animal rights activist (or famous, religious family man) who wants to eat an endangered species (or have a virtual affair), either don't do it at all or go incognito!

 

[Joeternal]

Kind of looks like she was hoping to pry him away for herself, he gave her the backhand, and she did it for revenge.

I think releasing info from MFC could lead to more repercussions.

 

[NoelleBright]

Kind of looks like she was hoping to pry him away for herself, he gave her the backhand, and she did it for revenge.

I think releasing info from MFC could lead to more repercussions.

LMAO. She did not want him. She knew the whole time how it would end and did it for the attention.

 

[Joeternal]

LMAO. She did not want him. She knew the whole time how it would end and did it for the attention.

Even worse.

 

[OldHippy]

My life is so boring and inconsequential that even if someone knew everything about me there would nothing worth blackmailing me over nor would anyone really care...

At least I don't have to worry about my privacy

 

[Joeternal]

But if I just went on twitter and said "Hey, @RealnameMcFamousface is one of my best tippers on MFC, but I'll never tell what his screen name is!"... I don't know how that would go down. Maybe some action from MFC? I don't know what legal statute you'd use to file a lawsuit. It's not exactly slander if it's true, especially if Mr McFamousface volunteered the info himself.

"Personally identifiable information" includes name, obviously. So if someone well known told you his name and/or turned on his cam on MFC, and you repeated that to anyone, you would be in violation of MFC's Terms of Use. The site could definitely take action against you, including deleting your account, but beyond that I don't know about any civil case or criminal charges.

Something that happened entirely on Twitter depends on Twitter's policies, so it's a different matter. But if you got their information on MFC and then revealed it on Twitter, you would have a problem with MFC.

 

[Joeternal]

Should add, I suspect the person could also sue MFC and the model. MFC has a bunch of disclaimers of responsibility, but disclaimers don't always hold up in court. Put simply, exposing someone famous with a lot of money and a lot to lose, based on information that went through MFC, would be like poking a sleeping bear with a stick. We're talking tens of millions of dollars if they won that kind of case.

 

[Joeternal]

Update - looked at the AriaNina/ShayCarl stuff a little more, and if she released images or video of him, that would qualify as "revenge porn", which is now illegal in many places. Not sure about the text.

The more you read about it, the worse she looks. Wow. Had never been in her room before, definitely will not now.

 

[AmberCutie]

Should add, I suspect the person could also sue MFC and the model. MFC has a bunch of disclaimers of responsibility, but disclaimers don't always hold up in court. Put simply, exposing someone famous with a lot of money and a lot to lose, based on information that went through MFC, would be like poking a sleeping bear with a stick. We're talking tens of millions of dollars if they won that kind of case.

Since MFC itself did not supply the model with the name of the member, I believe it would be a suit between the member and the model directly. MFC did not require member to disclose his RL info to said model, isn't their problem if he does on his own accord.

 

[Joeternal]

Since MFC itself did not supply the model with the name of the member, I believe it would be a suit between the member and the model directly. MFC did not require member to disclose his RL info to said model, isn't their problem if he does on his own accord.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm just guessing based on limited knowledge. If you gave your info to a bank teller and they released it, I don't know if there's a scenario where the bank would be liable. The employee definitely would. The would be immediately fired, and the rest would be up to civil authorities. But I'm sure the bank has responsibilities too, and if they didn't follow them, could be open to a lawsuit. Once lawyers get involved, you never know.

Based on her Twitter, looks like AriaNina has adopted a strategy of coming on to guys with large social media followings, going so far as offering them sex, in order to drive traffic to her room and capitalize on it. So ShayCarl got caught up in that scheme. And it looks like she may have at least partially shown a nude picture he sent her. Which would be revenge porn. If he doesn't go after her legally, she should be glad he's not Donald Trump, who definitely would. Talk about giving cam girls a bad name. Unbelievable.

 

[AmberCutie]

If you gave your info to a bank teller and they released it, I don't know if there's a scenario where the bank would be liable. The employee definitely would.

Models are not employees of MFC.

edit to expand:

A bank teller would need the person's info to complete a transaction, as it is part of the process/requirement of banking. A bank teller is an employee of the bank. So there's 2 reasons this is not comparable to an MFC model situation.

If legal processes were taken, MFC may be required to give real information to the member if there was an actual subpoena and would probably be expected to terminate the model's account, but I don't think they could directly be sued in the instance where a member willingly gave information to one of their independent contractors when it was not a requirement of using their service.

 

[Joeternal]

Models are not employees of MFC.

They're not salaried employees, they're described as "work for hire" in MFC's Terms, and MFC owns all content produced on the site. They are paid by MFC, the money goes through them. Their rules forbid anyone, model or member, from releasing anyone else's personal info obtained on the site. So the model should, under their Terms, be banned from the site.

Lawsuits are a notoriously gray area, where the right lawyers and jury can do anything they want. If MFC can't guarantee the privacy of their members against models who want to do them harm, it's bad for business, without a doubt.

 

[AmberCutie]

If MFC can't guarantee the privacy of their members against models who want to do them harm, it's bad for business, without a doubt.

I agree it isn't good for business. But I'll go back to the fact that MFC does not require or encourage members to give models their identifying information, and that would likely be a huge factor against them being the ones liable in the end.

 

[Joeternal]

I agree it isn't good for business. But I'll go back to the fact that MFC does not require or encourage members to give models their identifying information, and that would likely be a huge factor against them being the ones liable in the end.

Probably. The model is basically like an artist, paid to produce content for the site minute by minute. There would have to be some extra factor for MFC to be liable, but the model definitely could and should lose her account and banned from the site.

A more complicated, but common scenario: a model sells Snapchat, a member buys it and sends her pictures so that she knows who is. If she took chat logs from that member on MFC and released them publicly, I think MFC would be obligated to ban her from the site, or it could be sued for not following its own rules to protect the member's privacy.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Regarding the Aria Nina thing, when I looked it up (having never heard of either of these people), I read that he was never a paying client in the first place, they just conversed using her cam model Twitter account. If that's true, on the one hand it means there was a large amount of stupidity on both sides of the story, but also means that this incident really is just an affair that ended poorly, and nothing to do with camming.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't deny that outting an MFC member on Twitter would be a bad idea and could result in discipline from MFC. However, in a legal sense, I still don't really see where there would be much case for wrongdoing. As an example, let's say I were a waitress, and one day a famous actor comes in, mentions who he is, and says that he'll have the salmon because he really likes seafood. Then I go out and tell someone about what happened, and it goes viral that he was in my restaurant and really likes seafood. If the restaurant where I work really values discretion for famous people, they might discipline/fire me, but I don't think you could claim that I've done anything illegal or meriting a lawsuit. That isn't really legally different than a famous person sharing his identity and sexual preferences in my cam room.

If you come to my (perfectly legal) workplace and volunteer your identity and preferences, and I then disclose it as a "guess what happened at work today" story (whether to one person or on twitter), is that legally punishable? Obviously some information that certain professionals encounter in their jobs is privileged and protected, such as medical, legal, banking, social security number, etc. A food server is obligated to protect your credit card info, but afaik they aren't legally required to keep your visit to their workplace a secret, and they're free to comment on whether you tip poorly, really like a particular dish, or get way too flirty after the third drink. We fall more into the food server category than the doctor/lawyer/bank teller category.

 

[Joeternal]

Regarding the Aria Nina thing, when I looked it up (having never heard of either of these people), I read that he was never a paying client in the first place, they just conversed using her cam model Twitter account. If that's true, on the one hand it means there was a large amount of stupidity on both sides of the story, but also means that this incident really is just an affair that ended poorly, and nothing to do with camming.

Yeah, it all took place on Twitter, so MFC is not involved. I looked at her Twitter a few minutes ago, and she had a tweet @ some guy with a lot of followers saying she wanted to lick his balls. She did a show with a YouTube vlogger where she was offering to have sex with him on the spot, then they went on Chaturbate, she got naked and he used a Hitachi on her.

I don't deny that outting an MFC member on Twitter would be a bad idea and could result in discipline from MFC. However, in a legal sense, I still don't really see where there would be much case for wrongdoing. As an example, let's say I were a waitress, and one day a famous actor comes in, mentions who he is, and says that he'll have the salmon because he really likes seafood. Then I go out and tell someone about what happened, and it goes viral that he was in my restaurant and really likes seafood. If the restaurant where I work really values discretion for famous people, they might discipline/fire me, but I don't think you could claim that I've done anything illegal or meriting a lawsuit. That isn't really legally different than a famous person sharing his identity and sexual preferences in my cam room.

If you come to my (perfectly legal) workplace and volunteer your identity and preferences, and I then disclose it as a "guess what happened at work today" story (whether to one person or on twitter), is that legally punishable? Obviously some information that certain professionals encounter in their jobs is privileged and protected, such as medical, legal, banking, social security number, etc. A food server is obligated to protect your credit card info, but afaik they aren't legally required to keep your visit to their workplace a secret, and they're free to comment on whether you tip poorly, really like a particular dish, or get way too flirty after the third drink. We fall more into the food server category than the doctor/lawyer/bank teller category.

I don't know all of the laws, but somebody said earlier it could qualify as harassment. I could see that being true. If you released a naked picture of the person, it would be revenge porn, depending on the jurisdiction. Thing is, posting something on social media isn't like telling some other person face to face. It's like going around town plastering posters of it everywhere you can.

 

[Ms_Gingersnatch]

Yeah, I think laws haven't really caught up with technology, so we don't have very clear regulations about what counts as a "private transmission" on the internet (e.g. you can't record a telephone conversation without notifying the other party, but we haven't addressed that with a texting/DM/chatroom interface). Nor do we have clear regulations governing whether posting something on social media is different than verbally telling a large group of friends.