Horrors of Stalinist concentration camps

[Cal_blue]

It's a form of Holocaust denying, buddy. Who does it benefit to prove that the number maybe not exact?

Not exact? The red cross has number near a lousy 200,000. That's a few million off.
Did you not read my earlier remarks about how they used Hitler to distract the world from Russia?
You want to talk about denial? How about your denial that the world isn't as face value,cookie cutter, easy to understand as you want to believe.
Why is it so hard to fathom that the people with all the money and all the power might not be telling you the entire truth ,.So they keep the millions of people under them from coming after them. To keep them in fear or make them happy when it's best needed. ....Propaganda rules the world,not truth.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

One of the most notorious Soviet war crimes was the Kaytn massacre.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

Churchill assured the Soviets: "We shall certainly oppose vigorously any 'investigation' by the International Red Cross or any other body in any territory under German authority. Such investigation would be a fraud and its conclusions reached by terrorism".[61]Unofficial or classified UK documents concluded that Soviet guilt was a "near certainty", but the alliance with the Soviets was deemed to be more important than moral issues; thus the official version supported the Soviets, up to censoring any contradictory accounts.

In the United States a similar line was taken, notwithstanding two official intelligence reports into the Katyn massacre that contradicted the official position. In 1944, Roosevelt assigned his special emissary to the Balkans, Navy Lieutenant Commander George Earle, to produce a report on Katyn.[23] Earle concluded that the massacre was committed by the Soviet Union.[23] Having consulted with Elmer Davis, director of the United States Office of War Information, Roosevelt rejected the conclusion (officially), declared that he was convinced of Nazi Germany's responsibility, and ordered that Earle's report be suppressed. When Earle formally requested permission to publish his findings, the President issued a written order to desist.[23] Earle was reassigned and spent the rest of the war in American Samoa.[23]

I guess the truth is just too dangerous sometimes. A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. That shit can cost you.

Censored. Discredited. Imprisoned. Disappeared. Maybe executed. Speak up in the moment when it counts, better be ready to pay.


Hugh Thompson Jr., the American helicopter pilot who intervened at the My Lai massacre during the Vietnam War. This was heroic imo.

For the actions at My Lai, Thompson was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross (DFC)...As the DFC citation included a fabricated account of rescuing a young girl from My Lai from "intense crossfire"[57] Thompson threw his medal away.[58][59] He later received a Purple Heart for other services in Vietnam.[60]

Sounds like the man didn't care much for the propaganda.

When news of the massacre publicly broke, Thompson repeated his account to then-Colonel William Wilson[4]:222–235 and then-Lieutenant General William Peers during their official Pentagon investigations.[11] In late-1969, Thompson was summoned to Washington, DC to appear before a special closed hearing of the House Armed Services Committee. There, he was sharply criticized by congressmen, in particular Chairman Mendel Rivers (D-S.C.), who were anxious to play down allegations of a massacre by American troops.[4]:290–291 Rivers publicly stated that he felt Thompson was the only soldier at My Lai who should be punished (for turning his weapons on fellow American troops) and unsuccessfully attempted to have him court-martialed.[3]

Thompson was vilified by many Americans for his testimony against United States Army personnel. He recounted in a CBS 60 Minutes television program in 2004, "I'd received death threats over the phone...Dead animals on your porch, mutilated animals on your porch some mornings when you get up."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson_Jr.
He got off light.

Of course, I have mixed feelings about this. After all, Hugh Thompson was interfering with the war effort. We had to go to war, because of the Soviets. Evil evil evil. Just look at Stalin for chrissakes.

 

[DFT]

History didn't happen in a vacuum, but we like to analyze it as if it did. Questioning and context is critical.

Hell I only just gained a copy of German Concentration Camps Factual Survey, a film that those in government at the time, who commissioned it, thought it too much for the public to see.

Our elders feared what we'd think of them, and ourselves, if we saw it. What they couldn't have expected is we now throw around terms like Nazi as if they're donut sprinkles.

 

[Zoomer]

This thread grew quick

For pre-war/war years my "go to" documentary has always been "The world at war" - about 23 hours of documentary. Okay, doesn't cover the gulags etc at all - but does give an insight into the political nature of Europe/America/Japan and the ways things moved/motivations and so on. I'm sure some could poke holes, but it is regarded very highly in terms of research and those interviewed.

 

[AudriTwo]

Not exact? The red cross has number near a lousy 200,000. That's a few million off.
Did you not read my earlier remarks about how they used Hitler to distract the world from Russia?
You want to talk about denial? How about your denial that the world isn't as face value,cookie cutter, easy to understand as you want to believe.
Why is it so hard to fathom that the people with all the money and all the power might not be telling you the entire truth ,.So they keep the millions of people under them from coming after them. To keep them in fear or make them happy when it's best needed. ....Propaganda rules the world,not truth.

Sounds to me you read and watched a lot of anti Semitic propaganda. You aren't awaken by any means. Just proving even more how delusional you are.

Anyway, I'm done with you.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

You aren't awaken by any means. Just proving even more how delusional you are.

I hate to nitpick here, but that is not how you say it. It's "woke".

e.g. "You ain't woke", or "That dude is as woke as anybody I ever knowed"

 

[AudriTwo]

I hate to nitpick here, but that is not how you say it. It's "woke".

e.g. "You ain't woke", or "That dude is as woke as anybody I ever knowed"

That was the joke...

 

[justjoinedtopost]

That was the joke...

I'm trying to free your mind Audri.

 

[AudriTwo]

I'm trying to free your mind Audri.

OMG I JUST WANT TO STAY IN MY IVORY TOWER! LEAVE ME ALONE!

 

[eyeteach]

AMBERCUTIE!!!!!

Sounds to me you read and watched a lot of anti Semitic propaganda. You aren't awaken by any means. Just proving even more how delusional you are.

Anyway, I'm done with you.
View attachment 70119

Me too. Plus I have to pee.

 

[Nikola Tesla]

Why is it so hard to fathom that the people with all the money and all the power might not be telling you the entire truth ,.

Now I'm hearing Illuminati.

 

[Omne35]

Not exact? The red cross has number near a lousy 200,000. That's a few million off.
Did you not read my earlier remarks about how they used Hitler to distract the world from Russia?
You want to talk about denial? How about your denial that the world isn't as face value,cookie cutter, easy to understand as you want to believe.
Why is it so hard to fathom that the people with all the money and all the power might not be telling you the entire truth ,.So they keep the millions of people under them from coming after them. To keep them in fear or make them happy when it's best needed. ....Propaganda rules the world,not truth.

Hate to get sucked in but are you really that clueless about what happened? Where did you get the stupid idea that the killing only happened in the camps? Around half of the people killed were in the camps, the rest were killed when the German military moved into an area or as laborers. That alone takes care of your "math".

 

[Cal_blue]

Hate to get sucked in but are you really that clueless about what happened? Where did you get the stupid idea that the killing only happened in the camps? Around half of the people killed were in the camps, the rest were killed when the German military moved into an area or as laborers. That alone takes care of your "math".

it doesnt matter where you think anyone was killed. They in fact said that in the camps alone it was 6 million.
even if they didnt mean the camps,they later said - ok, we ment 1 million.

no, nothing you said takes care of any math. Your going on basic propaganda you heard and never actually looked into.
how were all these so called survivors coming out of the woodwork for interviews if they killed so many?
they were work camps. People did die due to overwork or disease or age or what ever but there were no death camps.
if there were any death camps it was small potatos compared to what they wanted you to believe.


what you think you know about any war..any and all wars...may be totally backwards. Who were the good guys and the bad? who was warring for what real reason? not the reason media told you. the so called swastika was around for 1000s of years and generally used as a sign of piece by many cultures.
who knows? there are some things I can be wrong about and I can accept that. There are things I wish I was wrong about. Everyone has the prerogative to change their mind/s
but I appear to be the only one here who actually has the balls to question something.
..and even with the internet, the only one who seems to be able to research varying views.
Holocaust denier is just a stupid invented slogan that means nothing.
you are reality deniers.

right in front of your face you know they totally bypassed the Stalinist camps...and yet you dont ask the deeper question...why?

For pre-war/war years my "go to" documentary has always been "The world at war" - about 23 hours of documentary. Okay, doesn't cover the gulags etc at all - but does give an insight into the political nature of Europe/America/Japan and the ways things moved/motivations and so on

no, it gives you a predetermined propagandist view. some true,some not,depending on what benefits their message.

 

[Cal_blue]

learn something and become wiser

To fully understand the trickery of our political leaders and their bosses, our real "owners" and leaders, one simply has to know the real meaning of the word government. The word government is from the Latin: guberno, meaning "to control", and ment, meaning "of the mind." Thus the word government means in fact: "control of the mind."

 

[heybarkeep]

As much as I hate putting people on ignore, have to with this guy. Losing brain cells when I read his posts and don't want to be tempted to do any troll feeding.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

As much as I hate putting people on ignore, have to with this guy. Losing brain cells when I read his posts and don't want to be tempted to do any troll feeding.

I hated to do it, but he was just too much. You never know when a troll might make a point, but him? Pretty much boiled down to "EVERYTHING YOU THINK IS WRONG!!!"

He is actually the only person I have ignored here.

 

[zippypinhead]

I'm honestly shocked he hasn't hit the banhammered threshold yet.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

it doesnt matter where you think anyone was killed. They in fact said that in the camps alone it was 6 million.
even if they didnt mean the camps,they later said - ok, we ment 1 million.

no, nothing you said takes care of any math. Your going on basic propaganda you heard and never actually looked into.
how were all these so called survivors coming out of the woodwork for interviews if they killed so many?
they were work camps. People did die due to overwork or disease or age or what ever but there were no death camps.
if there were any death camps it was small potatos compared to what they wanted you to believe.

I normally wouldn't bother debating with him.

But last weeks 60 Minutes had a terrific interview with one of the most inspirational 97 year old.you'll see.Ben Ferencz, the last surviving Nurnberg trial prosecutor is still going strong, committed to bringing war criminals to justice.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-the-last-nuremberg-prosecutor-alive-wants-the-world-to-know/


As I said earlier the reason we have such a good knowledge of the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust is that German were such good record keeper Ben's unit in WWII investigated a cache of records which he used to convict 22 SS Nazi officers of war crimes. In the 60 Minute video you'll see examples of the records and often precise numbers, Like 91,678 Jews killed in Kiev in the summer of 1942.

BTW, I noticed you ducked my question on how you explain the drop in European Jews between 1940 and 1945. Care to explain it?

 

[swagger]

I tend to stay out of long form debate, and I even think there's a droplet of truth in some of your delusional and simplified conspiracy theories. This though....

People did die due to overwork or disease or age or what ever but there were no death camps.
if there were any death camps it was small potatos compared to what they wanted you to believe.
.

If we were at a bar, and this gem came out of your mouth, win or lose, I'd do my best to make sure you were picking up some of your teeth up off the floor. I'm no internet or RL tough guy, but some things you don't get away with saying.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I tend to stay out of long form debate, and I even think there's a droplet of truth in some of your delusional and simplified conspiracy theories. This though....



If we were at a bar, and this gem came out of your mouth, win or lose, I'd do my best to make sure you were picking up some of your teeth up off the floor. I'm no internet or RL tough guy, but some things you don't get away with saying.

And of course, I had no choice but to "show ignored content", like an idiot...

 

[Cal_blue]

I normally wouldn't bother debating with him.

But last weeks 60 Minutes had a terrific interview with one of the most inspirational 97 year old.you'll see.Ben Ferencz, the last surviving Nurnberg trial prosecutor is still going strong, committed to bringing war criminals to justice.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-the-last-nuremberg-prosecutor-alive-wants-the-world-to-know/


As I said earlier the reason we have such a good knowledge of the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust is that German were such good record keeper Ben's unit in WWII investigated a cache of records which he used to convict 22 SS Nazi officers of war crimes. In the 60 Minute video you'll see examples of the records and often precise numbers, Like 91,678 Jews killed in Kiev in the summer of 1942.

BTW, I noticed you ducked my question on how you explain the drop in European Jews between 1940 and 1945. Care to explain it?

number? your question assumes you got truthful information to begin with? lol at quoting anything on 60 minutes. That show is govt run propaganda. They arent doing any independent journalism.

 

[Cal_blue]

I tend to stay out of long form debate, and I even think there's a droplet of truth in some of your delusional and simplified conspiracy theories. This though....



If we were at a bar, and this gem came out of your mouth, win or lose, I'd do my best to make sure you were picking up some of your teeth up off the floor. I'm no internet or RL tough guy, but some things you don't get away with saying.

your emotional response has nothing to with with whether what you believe actually happened. You have no facts you can prove in any way shape or form.
Believing and repeating something said to you many times is not a fact or a truth and will never make it so.
you would hit someone for having a different view? incredible hypocritical remark by you.

I asked a valid question they cant even focus on . Why was the Russian aspect completely ignored?
why did they say the Nazi's were the worse in history and cover the actual worse just before it?

you are personally attacking me for absolutely no reason caused by me. Just you relying on emotions to do your thinking for you.
You dont make something illegal to talk about in a country unless you are trying to cover something up you dont want people to know.
thats proof enough right there.

 

[Cal_blue]

I'm honestly shocked he hasn't hit the banhammered threshold yet.

for having an opinion not liked? I have not insulted or attacked anyone while that has happened to me.
People just cant handle authentic freedom of speech and thought. ..And no one really knows anything about world history.
You would ban someone for helping you wake from your sleep? For widening your horizons ?

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

number? your question assumes you got truthful information to begin with? lol at quoting anything on 60 minutes. That show is govt run propaganda. They arent doing any independent journalism.

I see so you alone the truth.
Well one set of number is before the most of the Holocaust started and the other is right after the war.
So why wouldn't they be accurate.

You keep saying that everything we read is wrong, but you have presented any evidence why you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

 

[swagger]

your emotional response has nothing to with with whether what you believe actually happened.

Actually, that is exactly wrong, my emotional response has everything to do with what I believe actually happened.

(Upon rereading, I've added an edited response to this particular question at the bottom)

You have no facts you can prove in any way shape or form.
Believing and repeating something said to you many times is not a fact or a truth and will never make it so.

You're right I don't have any facts, nor do you. I'm agnostic as fuck, I get my news feed from a huge variety of sources, ranging from Breitbart and ZeroHedge all the way to Wiki Leaks, Al Jazeera, and Anon, and a lot of shit in the middle. I try to sift through that amalgamation of news and views to get what I perceive as an approximation of what I think is the truth. I believe you get so buried in your confirmation bias that you never make it very far past Alex Jones and some white nationalist you tubers. You seem so determined to have us question our sources but seem to have no doubt about yours.

you would hit someone for having a different view? incredible hypocritical remark by you.

I concur, I believe deeply in the freedom of speech and the fact that people can't be offended unless they choose. So you got me there, I'm a hypocrite in that sense, if I had to hear someone say that shit in person, I'd want to get all Buzz Aldriny on them.

Why was the Russian aspect completely ignored?
why did they say the Nazi's were the worse in history and cover the actual worse just before it?

Was it? I grew up aware that Stalin likely killed far more of his own people than Hitler killed Jews. That doesn't belittle what Hitler did and nor should you. I'm fairly sure it was under taught because during the war as we were allies, we don't gloat much on the effects of dropping atomic bombs either.

you are personally attacking me for absolutely no reason caused by me. Just you relying on emotions to do your thinking for you.
You dont make something illegal to talk about in a country unless you are trying to cover something up you dont want people to know.
thats proof enough right there.

You seem to know what a lot of people are thinking, and believing yourself to be the only enlightened one. The above quote is why you get personally attacked, you make assumptions about the people on here without knowing a thing about most of us. I'd like to think it's transference, but I don't know. "That's proof enough right there" is not proof enough at all. When you first showed up here spouting your rhetoric I assumed you were a young kid who just got a taste of college and unforced reading, but for the love of whatever, you're an adult. As much as you'd like to believe your enlightened and educating us, you're just the super nutty guy they gave hemlock to, not because he wasn't right, but because he was super annoying. I'll read one of your responses, but after that, I'm gonna put you on ignore for the sake of my blood pressure.

PS. Before you start on the 9-5 shirt and tie rant, don't bother, I'm not that breed.

PPS. (Edit) Aaaah sorry I misunderstood what you were attempting to say. Right, I get it, history is written by the winners, blah, blah, except it did happen. If the numbers are inflated, then the only turd here would be the one who insisted in bone counting to prove it was exaggerated. And might I ask what is the agenda of the oh for lack of better terms, deniers. What do you hope to gain by "proving" that it might only have been 3 million?

 

[Omne35]

it doesnt matter where you think anyone was killed. They in fact said that in the camps alone it was 6 million.
even if they didnt mean the camps,they later said - ok, we ment 1 million.

no, nothing you said takes care of any math. Your going on basic propaganda you heard and never actually looked into.
how were all these so called survivors coming out of the woodwork for interviews if they killed so many?
they were work camps. People did die due to overwork or disease or age or what ever but there were no death camps.
if there were any death camps it was small potatos compared to what they wanted you to believe.

I've studied it extensively on my own in and college. I've looked at original documents and talked to people who were there.

You've fallen into a common fallacy that if you can't rely on some information you can't rely on any information. The problem is that either you descend into solipsism, a true dead end, or you merely continue to reaffirm your biases. The inability to recognize, evaluate and determine the validity of information is the antithesis of what you claim is the ideal, a truly open mind. You're mind is one of the most closed I've ever seen to any possibility of error. Anything that contradicts your world view is disregarded as propaganda, lies, manipulations etc.. Anything that reinforces your world view is considered enlightened, accurate, the Truth (with a T).

Enjoy your limited world, ignore the wonders about you as figments of other people's imaginations and avoid anything that might make you feel that you are wrong.

 

[AmberCutie]

I'm honestly shocked he hasn't hit the banhammered threshold yet.

I really haven't paid all that much attention to his shit posts because I don't participate in these sorts of threads. But if the consensus is that he's making the place stink worse than it should (which, it appears from a quick glance, is likely) I'll look into it. Let me know.

 

[Gen]

You keep saying that everything we read is wrong, but you have presented any evidence why you are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

You seem so determined to have us question our sources but seem to have no doubt about yours.

Just wanted to emphasize both those points because they're very true. I'm curious how @Cal_blue evaluates a source.

 

[SaffronBurke]

So, this was of course worse than Hitler and Germany but history made sure you only focused on Hitler.
Who needed to do that and why?
While you're at it. Have you ever actually considered the 6 million Jews killed story? Even if they weren't all Jews,that number is impossible to accomplish in 4 years with the amount of camps and ovens they had..but people just believe it at face value.
Most everything you think you know about the world is revisionism, propaganda and lies.

Source?

 

[AudriTwo]

I tend to stay out of long form debate, and I even think there's a droplet of truth in some of your delusional and simplified conspiracy theories. This though....



If we were at a bar, and this gem came out of your mouth, win or lose, I'd do my best to make sure you were picking up some of your teeth up off the floor. I'm no internet or RL tough guy, but some things you don't get away with saying.