Gun Grabbers Unite

[Bocefish]

DEERFIELD (CBS) — Gun owners in north suburban Deerfield now have just over two months to remove certain types of firearms from their home, or face stiff fines.

Village trustees voted unanimously in favor of a complete ban on semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns with certain features. The new ordinance also bans magazines containing more than 10 rounds of ammunition, CBS 2’s Jeremy Ross reports.

Both sides of the gun debate voiced their opinion at the board meeting.

“It is very heartening to know the village is standing at the forefront of something that is an imperative in front of our nation,” said resident Andrew Toban.

“There were a lot of emotional arguments and not a lot based on fact,” said Daniel Easterday. “Deerfield is a very crime free community, and I don’t see how this is going to make it any more crime free.”

Law enforcement and retired law enforcement are exempt from the ban.

The law is similar to the one in neighboring Highland Park.

The ban goes into effect June 13.

Those who keep the affected firearms could be fined up to $1,000 a day

 

[JickyJuly]

I'm all for more regulations on weaponry (specifically bans for those with domestic violence records), but I'm not sure if it makes sense for villages/cities or even states to do if surrounding areas aren't on board as well. Seems like a lot of hassle and likely bad press for not a lot of payoff. The cities that have tried gun control thus far have failed to fix much given the ease at which people can access guns by driving a short distance. If sensible changes aren't made federally (as allowed by our 2nd amendment), what's the point?

 

[fandango]

Those who keep the affected firearms could be fined up to $1,000 a day

How are they possibly going to enforce this? Are they searching everyone's house to check? Are they also searching people every time they go out and come back home to make sure they didn't buy more from the next town over?

Seems totally ineffective for one small region to do it alone. It needs to be everywhere if its going to work.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Illinois has always been rather fucked up on their gun laws. Couldn't pay me to live anywhere in that entire state.

Be interesting to see how long it lasts before it's challenged in court. I suspect papers are already being drawn up.

 

[dilligaf0]

I wonder if they'll use the same kind of "search without a warrant" clause as the "patriot act".

 

[JerryBoBerry]

How are they possibly going to enforce this? Are they searching everyone's house to check?

The most obvious answer is they'll get 'anonymous tips.' Which in reality means everyone you've ever mentioned owning one of those firearms, now becomes a potential enemy. Piss off your neighbor because you mowed your lawn and the grass clippings blew onto his side? He now informs the cops he saw you come home with one after a gun show last July. Then they have reasonable cause to search your home, since they can't find any record of you turning one in.

Even your brother becomes a snitch you'll hate for life if you drink the last beer out of his fridge and he gets mad and makes a call.

Hatred is going to multiply due to this.

 

[SoTxBob]

I am simply amazed at the hysteria surrounding this once again revisited 'gun grab crap.' Seems that every time some mental decides to shoot up someplace that is "gun free" the liberals decide this is the answer. Hopefully one day, folks will realize that its the mental processes of the ones that do the killing that need to be addressed. Also, how do the gun grabbers feel about the gun free Uk/London, now surpassing the murder rate here in NYC with their knife crime rates?

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

I am simply amazed at the hysteria surrounding this once again revisited 'gun grab crap.' Seems that every time some mental decides to shoot up someplace that is "gun free" the liberals decide this is the answer. Hopefully one day, folks will realize that its the mental processes of the ones that do the killing that need to be addressed. Also, how do the gun grabbers feel about the gun free Uk/London, now surpassing the murder rate here in NYC with their knife crime rates?

As someone who lives in Sweden and has been threatened with a knife I would rather have that traumatic experience again then to live in the US and fear getting shot because the NRA gave a lot of money to your crooked politicians, some Billy-Bob and Cleatus think the second amendment should be treated like some religious text and someone with easy access to guns snapped. If you get shot and are lucky survive then you go bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills because the US has the worst healthcare system in the entire developed world and you can't pay medical bills with thoughts and prayers from strangers on twitter. I went to a rough school by Swedish standards where people carried switch blades, but at least I was sure that I wouldn't get shot. You Americans can keep your guns and your thoughts and prayers while we Swedes have healthcare, 480 days of paid parental leave, 5 weeks of paid vacation every year and other nice things civilized people in the developed world enjoy even though we don't get to have AR-15's.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Law enforcement and retired law enforcement are exempt from the ban.

That's the most revolting part about it imo.

Seems that every time some mental decides to shoot up someplace that is "gun free" the liberals decide this is the answer. Hopefully one day, folks will realize that its the mental processes of the ones that do the killing that need to be addressed.

Pretty much would have agreed wholeheartedly with your post until Newtown.

It's not the guns OR the mental processes they are interested in; it is both. And it is not the corporate 'liberals' OR the corporate 'conservatives'; it is both. I don't really believe it matters anymore whether the present day naive 'liberals' are winning, or the gullible patriots on the 'conservative' side à la 2003; headed the same direction as far as I can tell.

As someone who lives in Sweden and has been threatened with a knife I would rather have that traumatic experience again then to live in the US and fear getting shot because the NRA gave a lot of money to your crooked politicians, some Billy-Bob and Cleatus think the second amendment should be treated like some religious text and someone with easy access to guns snapped. If you get shot and are lucky survive then you go bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills because the US has the worst healthcare system in the entire developed world and you can't pay medical bills with thoughts and prayers from strangers on twitter. I went to a rough school by Swedish standards where people carried switch blades, but at least I was sure that I wouldn't get shot. You Americans can keep your guns and your thoughts and prayers while we Swedes have healthcare, 480 days of paid parental leave, 5 weeks of paid vacation every year and other nice things civilized people in the developed world enjoy even though we don't get to have AR-15's.

I don't know too much about Sweden, but just based on what I have read, but it does sound like a nicer place to live.

How much time have you spent in America? Seems like you have got things pretty much figured out for us, but I would like add my impressions.

Since all the ruckus we had last summer, I have seen a few more Billy-Bobs and Cleatuses wearing a holster around town. This does not bother me too much. Not nearly as much as some of the 16 year old Tyrones who would occasionally lift up their shirt so you could see the handle back when I lived over off MLK Jr Blvd.

Then there is the whole issue of all the Josés we got; come to find out our corrupt ass government spent some time over the last couple of administrations helping some of them get strapped. Our government as a whole appears completely unworthy of the power it already has, and only a fool would think they could be trusted with more.

Our health care and vacation/leave are pretty uncivilized, but I am pretty sure that wouldn't change even if guns of every description were outlawed.

Your post almost makes it sound like Sweden doesn't have any issues, and for all I know that may be true. Are these stories just propaganda pieces?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...se-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

 

[Dan Epstein]

Guns seldom end up where they were originally purchased. Do you really believe that the surplus of guns ends up in the recreational man cave of a harmless weekend warrior? Do you really believe that there's no gun trafficking factor here?
Just points for thought, not siding, because I just joined the post.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

As someone who lives in Sweden and has been threatened with a knife I would rather have that traumatic experience again then to live in the US and fear getting shot because the NRA gave a lot of money to your crooked politicians, some Billy-Bob and Cleatus think the second amendment should be treated like some religious text and someone with easy access to guns snapped. If you get shot and are lucky survive then you go bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills because the US has the worst healthcare system in the entire developed world and you can't pay medical bills with thoughts and prayers from strangers on twitter. I went to a rough school by Swedish standards where people carried switch blades, but at least I was sure that I wouldn't get shot. You Americans can keep your guns and your thoughts and prayers while we Swedes have healthcare, 480 days of paid parental leave, 5 weeks of paid vacation every year and other nice things civilized people in the developed world enjoy even though we don't get to have AR-15's.

What did you say? I couldn't hear you over the increasing levels of gunfire coming out of your country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
"In January 2018, police statistics reported an increase in gun homicides from 8 in 2006 to 43 in 2017.[48] Analysis of 2011-2017 gang warfare showed that there were 1500 incidents involving firearms, 131 people had been killed and 520 injured.[49]

In February 2018, criminologist Jerzy Sarnecki stated in an interview with magazine Forskning & Framsteg that the increasing levels of gun crime in Sweden had taken him, Swedish criminologists in general and police in Sweden by surprise. He characterised the recent developments as "very serious"."



The simple comparison is, out of 100,000 people, America has 4.88 people murdered (not just firearms, all forms of intentional homicide). Sweden has 1.15. Congratulations on being 0.00373% safer than America. Might want to hold off on the fake praise of your safety record.

 

[Dan Epstein]

Guys, I hope you are aware that Wikipedia is not the most stable or reliable source, anyone can edit it at this very moment.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Guys, I hope you are aware that Wikipedia is not the most stable or reliable source, anyone can edit it at this very moment.

Actually, it's been proven to be just as reliable as traditional hard bound encyclopedias in numerous studies over the years. And since they also publish source material links in the footnotes, it's rather easy to verify by anyone willing to do the basic research.


https://www.livescience.com/32950-how-accurate-is-wikipedia.html

"That page contains a comprehensive list of studies undertaken to assess the accuracy of the crowd-sourced encyclopedia since its founding 10 years ago. Of course, if you find yourself on this page, you might worry that the list itself may not be trustworthy. Well, the good news is that almost all those studies tell us that it probably is.

In 2005, the peer-reviewed journal Nature asked scientists to compare Wikipedia's scientific articles to those in Encyclopaedia Britannica—"the most scholarly of encyclopedias," according to its own Wiki page. The comparison resulted in a tie; both references contained four serious errors among the 42 articles analyzed by experts.

And last year, a study published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology found that Wikipedia had the same level of accuracy and depth in its articles about 10 types of cancer as the Physician Data Query, a professionally edited database maintained by the National Cancer Institute.

The self-described "free encyclopedia that anyone can edit" has fared similarly well in most other studies comparing its accuracy to conventional encyclopedias, including studies by The Guardian, PC Pro, Library Journal, the Canadian Library Association, and several peer-reviewed academic studies."



Edit: forgot a link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

 

[justjoinedtopost]

What did you say? I couldn't hear you over the increasing levels of gunfire coming out of your country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
"In January 2018, police statistics reported an increase in gun homicides from 8 in 2006 to 43 in 2017.[48] Analysis of 2011-2017 gang warfare showed that there were 1500 incidents involving firearms, 131 people had been killed and 520 injured.[49]

In February 2018, criminologist Jerzy Sarnecki stated in an interview with magazine Forskning & Framsteg that the increasing levels of gun crime in Sweden had taken him, Swedish criminologists in general and police in Sweden by surprise. He characterised the recent developments as "very serious"."
View attachment 75558


The simple comparison is, out of 100,000 people, America has 4.88 people murdered (not just firearms, all forms of intentional homicide). Sweden has 1.15. Congratulations on being 0.00373% safer than America. Might want to hold off on the fake praise of your safety record.

WHAT'S THAT JERRY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! GRENADE WENT OFF NEAR MY HEAD, BLEW OUT MY EARDRUMS!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden

 

[eyeteach]

I can see this going all the way to the SCOTUS before this ridiculous ordinance is struck down for violation of both 2nd Amendment and 4th Amendment rights. When will the loons learn that if one fundamental right given in the US Constitution is taken away that others (possibly even those rights they may hold dear) could also be taken away? Why stop with the 2nd & 4th Amendments? Let's strip away 1st Amendment rights pertaining to freedom of the press and freedom if speech; the mefia

 

[Dan Epstein]

What happens when you go to the public archives of gun related casualties of both countries since 2000 and compare?

 

[Dan Epstein]

You guys are aware that academic researches don't use encyclopedias I hope.

 

[SMuser69]

The problem is all gun regulations in US history are products of kneejerk reactions. No real non-crisis discussion has ever lead to a practical law going into effect. You can't use laws to STOP crime just to punish AFTER a crime is committed and often the case the person that has reached the point were they are taking people lives commonly are ready to take their own as well.

I support the idea of pre-screens and background checks but gun restrictions remove options ONLY from law abiding gun owners.

At the same time NO conversation ever takes place around other defensive products. It's always who has guns and who doesn't not who has access to bulletproof glass or armor plates or things that could stop a bullet. Why do we completely ban armor in all situations. If you take more advantage away from guns in a combat situation the less they become the defacto weapon.

For example why can't school use armor plates as the heat covers in classrooms? If trouble happens at least there would be defense inside the room that could stop a bullet. Inflatable barriers in hallways to restrict movement you don't have to make the hallway impassable just remove the clean line of fire from the weapon (bullets can only fire in a straight line). These are tools a teacher could use to keep their class safe without arming more people.

 

[JickyJuly]

Your post almost makes it sound like Sweden doesn't have any issues, and for all I know that may be true. Are these stories just propaganda pieces?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...se-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

My husband has an ex in Sweden who works as a teacher. She said these instances are in places that already had gang violence, but that gangs are taking advantage of the displaced kids (much how they do here). Same gangs. More access to vulnerable kids.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

That's the most revolting part about it imo.
I don't know too much about Sweden, but just based on what I have read, but it does sound like a nicer place to live.

How much time have you spent in America? Seems like you have got things pretty much figured out for us, but I would like add my impressions.

Since all the ruckus we had last summer, I have seen a few more Billy-Bobs and Cleatuses wearing a holster around town. This does not bother me too much. Not nearly as much as some of the 16 year old Tyrones who would occasionally lift up their shirt so you could see the handle back when I lived over off MLK Jr Blvd.

Then there is the whole issue of all the Josés we got; come to find out our corrupt ass government spent some time over the last couple of administrations helping some of them get strapped. Our government as a whole appears completely unworthy of the power it already has, and only a fool would think they could be trusted with more.

Our health care and vacation/leave are pretty uncivilized, but I am pretty sure that wouldn't change even if guns of every description were outlawed.

Your post almost makes it sound like Sweden doesn't have any issues, and for all I know that may be true. Are these stories just propaganda pieces?
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/teens-roam-streets-with-rifles-as-crime-swamps-sweden-q83g055k9
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...se-of-army-to-end-gang-violence-idUSKBN1F629L

I haven't spent any time in America but we Swedes are so enamored with American culture that on our largest commercial channels litteraly over half the programming are from the US. We probably even read and watch more news about the US than the average American, so if you were to walk up to a Swede on the street and make a cultural or political reference we are very likely to know what you are talking about.

The article are true to some extent, if you are a postman, paramedic or fireman you might get rocks thrown at your vehicle in certain areas during certain times of the day, but as a regular citizen I can walk through what has been labeled as no go zones by foreign press with out having to worry about getting hurt. The reasons ambulances gets rocks thrown at them is because they are a symbol of authority to these kids that feel like society has let them down, which it actually has to an extent considering how miss managed the school system is between the spending cuts and privatizations. The gun violence that we have are mostly targeted at gang members and the weapons have been smuggled in from the Balkans so they are not random shootings from people who snapped, there is an intent behind it. Our right wing nut jobs blames the immigrants and the Jews, because according to them the Jews control the media and are trying to destroy Sweden by making the immigrants seem like regular people in the press when they are in fact dangerous, which is as it sounds mostly a bunch of bull crap.

The reason that a group of people is over represented in crime statistics is the same as always, they have very few opportunities to make something of themselves, they are less likely to get hired for jobs because they are foreigners so crime becomes a way to make what seems like easy money at first. In the nineties robbing Armored Cars was popular but as that became increasingly harder dealing drugs has become the new favorite. The problem with drug dealing is that it brings a lot of turf wars. Back in the nineties drug dealing was something that Hells Angels and Bandidos did and they were shooting at each other, but that was more OK because they were Scandinavians even though they also had hand grenades and assault rifles.

What did you say? I couldn't hear you over the increasing levels of gunfire coming out of your country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden
"In January 2018, police statistics reported an increase in gun homicides from 8 in 2006 to 43 in 2017.[48] Analysis of 2011-2017 gang warfare showed that there were 1500 incidents involving firearms, 131 people had been killed and 520 injured.[49]

In February 2018, criminologist Jerzy Sarnecki stated in an interview with magazine Forskning & Framsteg that the increasing levels of gun crime in Sweden had taken him, Swedish criminologists in general and police in Sweden by surprise. He characterised the recent developments as "very serious"."
View attachment 75558


The simple comparison is, out of 100,000 people, America has 4.88 people murdered (not just firearms, all forms of intentional homicide). Sweden has 1.15. Congratulations on being 0.00373% safer than America. Might want to hold off on the fake praise of your safety record.

The point was that we who are not criminals don't have to be worried about getting shot in our schools or other public places, our last schools shooting was in 1961 and I believe the last one in the US was a couple of weeks ago.

WHAT'S THAT JERRY? I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! GRENADE WENT OFF NEAR MY HEAD, BLEW OUT MY EARDRUMS!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Sweden

The hand grenades are more of a problem because they have a tendency to be thrown at the wrong people.

You guys are aware that academic researches don't use encyclopedias I hope.

You are right about that, but Jerzy Zarnecki that Jerry quoted earlier is a good source but our right wing nut jobs doesn't like him because he doesn't Support their narrative pointing out that crime is the price of inequality and he is a Polish Jew so he is here to steal a job that they could have had even though they would be horribly unqualified and under educated fort it, also he is in on the Jewish media conspiracy that they think exist. If anyone can find his books in English and are curious about Swedish crime I can recommend them.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

As someone who lives in Sweden and has been threatened with a knife I would rather have that traumatic experience again then to live in the US and fear getting shot because the NRA gave a lot of money to your crooked politicians, some Billy-Bob and Cleatus think the second amendment should be treated like some religious text and someone with easy access to guns snapped. If you get shot and are lucky survive then you go bankrupt because you can't pay the medical bills because the US has the worst healthcare system in the entire developed world and you can't pay medical bills with thoughts and prayers from strangers on twitter. I went to a rough school by Swedish standards where people carried switch blades, but at least I was sure that I wouldn't get shot. You Americans can keep your guns and your thoughts and prayers while we Swedes have healthcare, 480 days of paid parental leave, 5 weeks of paid vacation every year and other nice things civilized people in the developed world enjoy even though we don't get to have AR-15's.

What's your tax rate to pay for those things via the Gov't? Significantly higher, especially on the middle class. Many of those things are given by companies to their FTE's. So, not a big deal.

Guns seldom end up where they were originally purchased. Do you really believe that the surplus of guns ends up in the recreational man cave of a harmless weekend warrior? Do you really believe that there's no gun trafficking factor here?
Just points for thought, not siding, because I just joined the post.

There's gun trafficking everywhere in the world. Especially in places where gun restrictions are the toughest.

 

[JickyJuly]

What's your tax rate to pay for those things via the Gov't?

You should ask the girls here what their tax rate %s are. Plenty of Americans pay high tax rates and get near to nothing. Even when you're not making a ton, being single, self-employed or childless is an expense come tax time. Given that less Americans are marrying/making families, tons are paying in for sub-par school systems and endless war that spits out veterans without a care for them either. Meanwhile, churches skip tax season and weigh in all over our government. We have no room to critique the tax systems in other places.

At the same time NO conversation ever takes place around other defensive products.

I think about this too. Tons of lesser weapons are illegal in America varying from state to state. And defensive stuff is freaking expensive. I saw an article encouraging schools to include panic rooms. Do they even give teachers panic buttons? Working in a headshop/pornstore I had 3 inconspicuous panic buttons to choose from. It must not be that expensive to install. I'm going to buy 2 of my daughters kevlar backpacks before they start school this year. I don't care if that's over the top. It's like a $300 expense. I wonder if that is tax deductible? Having to ask if bulletproof attire for 5 year olds is a deductible expense living in America means something is wrong.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

My husband has an ex in Sweden who works as a teacher. She said these instances are in places that already had gang violence, but that gangs are taking advantage of the displaced kids (much how they do here). Same gangs. More access to vulnerable kids.

That is accurate. The only difference are that the kids just to be Swedish or of Finnish ancestry and they mostly used to use knives and batons before the mid nineties.

What's your tax rate to pay for those things via the Gov't? Significantly higher, especially on the middle class. Many of those things are given by companies to their FTE's. So, not a big deal.




There's gun trafficking everywhere in the world. Especially in places where gun restrictions are the toughest.

Income tax rates depend on what municipality and county you live in. I think I pay around 36%, but that also includes the church tax and burial fee .The value added tax on goods is 25% with exceptions for food and services in which case it is 12% and 6% on travel within Sweden books, news papers and admission tickets to cultural events. Capital gains tax is 30%. Everyone pays the same amount of tax we don't make the middle class pay more in tax than the rich people. Here is a link if you really interested in reading about Swedish taxation.

Most people here including our right wing nut jobs agrees that arming everyone is not going to solve the problem with gun violence.

 

[DJ_Pioneer]

I'm going to buy 2 of my daughters kevlar backpacks before they start school this year. I don't care if that's over the top. It's like a $300 expense. I wonder if that is tax deductible? Having to ask if bulletproof attire for 5 year olds is a deductible expense living in America means something is wrong.

It is messed up that there even is a market for Kevlar backpacks for kids.

 

[eyeteach]

Damn my fingers and phone's screen

 

[SMuser69]

I'm going to buy 2 of my daughters kevlar backpacks before they start school this year. I don't care if that's over the top. It's like a $300 expense. I wonder if that is tax deductible? Having to ask if bulletproof attire for 5 year olds is a deductible expense living in America means something is wrong.

Those backpacks in most cases are just to add to security theater. Like how those parkland kids are forced to take clear backpacks to school even though changing the backpacks wouldn't had affected the nature of the original shooting.

Putting the burden of defense on the kids themselves isn't an adult answer, they're still kids. Also regarding these armor backpacks the issue is weight. Many of those backpacks don't allow the plate to be separated from the backpack and the armor itself may have a low rating, maybe able to stop a .22 but may buckle to a 9mm round not taking the fact the absorbed force of taking the hit might be enough to stun on knock them out leaving them still in danger. Schools still love putting 30-50lb of books in the students bags. Running with 30-50lb extra weight is not effective logic. The burden of school defense must rest on the faculty of the school who are the adults and can be trained to use devices and defenses the student won't have to be privy to giving more elements of surprise to the attackers.

 

[eyeteach]

Damn my fingers and phone's screen

 

[JickyJuly]

Those backpacks in most cases are just to add to security theater.

I have like 457 fears involved in sending my kids to school (most not so gun related). Anything that can make even the slightest of dents in my madness is worth it. I tried to get them on board with a home school plan, but they weren't sold on it.

 

[Dan Epstein]

What's your tax rate to pay for those things via the Gov't? Significantly higher, especially on the middle class. Many of those things are given by companies to their FTE's. So, not a big deal.




There's gun trafficking everywhere in the world. Especially in places where gun restrictions are the toughest.

My point exactly. How many gun stores are in Georgia, and how many are Maryland? How many are in Laredo, and how many are in Nuevo Laredo? How easy it is to run a fire arms trade show in each location in comparison? Just asking, what do I know.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

The problem is all gun regulations in US history are products of kneejerk reactions. No real non-crisis discussion has ever lead to a practical law going into effect. You can't use laws to STOP crime just to punish AFTER a crime is committed and often the case the person that has reached the point were they are taking people lives commonly are ready to take their own as well.

I've been saying this for years. The problem is that everyone is focusing on the "simple solutions" of banning items. Not tackling the real problem of how/why things have become fundamentally different in 50 years. It used to be the norm for kids to have shotguns/rifles in vehicles 50 years ago because they were going hunting after school. Now, they get suspended/expelled if a box cutter is left on a seat from them working at a grocery store.

For example why can't school use armor plates as the heat covers in classrooms? If trouble happens at least there would be defense inside the room that could stop a bullet. Inflatable barriers in hallways to restrict movement you don't have to make the hallway impassable just remove the clean line of fire from the weapon (bullets can only fire in a straight line). These are tools a teacher could use to keep their class safe without arming more people.

There's a change in the way law enforcement and emergency services are handling active shooter scenarios. Before, it used to be that they would amass outside and then go in. Now, the first officer on scene is supposed to go in alone if necessary. The idea is to significantly reduce the time the shooter has to act upon defenseless people. This doesn't mean that an officer might not freeze up, such as in the case of the FL cop. But, I'm told this is the direction they are going.

You should ask the girls here what their tax rate %s are. Plenty of Americans pay high tax rates and get near to nothing. Even when you're not making a ton, being single, self-employed or childless is an expense come tax time. Given that less Americans are marrying/making families, tons are paying in for sub-par school systems and endless war that spits out veterans without a care for them either. Meanwhile, churches skip tax season and weigh in all over our government. We have no room to critique the tax systems in other places.

The taxes in the US are not near as high as those in Sweden or other countries. I'm well aware of what a single person with no deductions pays. The probem to me is that too many feel that paying more in will fix all the problems. Which, is most likely very far from the truth. I brought the question up because of his rant about getting those things and making it a great deal for them.