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Gun Raffle Insensitive?

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All of you people that are against gun control when all the facts are utterly against you just blow my mind.The USA has more mass shootings than any other nation in the world. This nation accounts for only around 5% of the world's population, yet around 31% of mass shootings over the past 60+ years have occurred here. The USA ranks 31st in rates of gun violence and when you consider the countries ahead of us and behind us in that grouping, it is appalling. Compared to other high-income countries, the gun homicide rate of the USA is 25.2 times higher. That's utterly insane!

No one cares what some bible-thumping redneck has to say about guns. The facts are against him. The facts are against you. You are living in total delusion. Get with the rest of the developed world and adopt gun control.
 
Another ignorant statement/viewpoint from dill


knifehammeretc-jpg.73334


If you believe in the above image's statement, what are you going to go for first when somebody breaks into your home?

Your car?

A knife?

A hammer?

And BTW, I never stated an AR-15 would be my go-to weapon for protection.
 
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All of you people that are against gun control when all the facts are utterly against you just blow my mind.The USA has more mass shootings than any other nation in the world. This nation accounts for only around 5% of the world's population, yet around 31% of mass shootings over the past 60+ years have occurred here. The USA ranks 31st in rates of gun violence and when you consider the countries ahead of us and behind us in that grouping, it is appalling. Compared to other high-income countries, the gun homicide rate of the USA is 25.2 times higher. That's utterly insane!

No one cares what some bible-thumping redneck has to say about guns. The facts are against him. The facts are against you. You are living in total delusion. Get with the rest of the developed world and adopt gun control.

What's appaling is that you have to resort to derogatory statements about a person's views and beliefs to try and make your point.

Beyond that, the majority of cities and states within the US which have the highest gun crimes are the ones with the strictest gun control. How about internationally? Sure, gun deaths might be down. But, assault, rape and other violent crimes are higher than in the US. There's also a reason why countries in Europe and elsewhere are being targeted more than here within the US. It's because they do have strict gun laws.

As to numbers, are the "facts" your spewing based on pure numbers? Or, are you focusing on a per-capita percentage? Because they are very different comparisons.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/c...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/

When will you, and others like you, realize that strict gun control isn't the easy answer you think it may be?
 
I don't care if I hurt your fe-fes. Your ignorance costs countless people their lives. Which is worse?

Gun control is subverted when cities and states are surrounded by those that do not exercise it. It's fucking idiotic to not realize that. The facts themselves are cited from The University of Washington's "http://www.healthdata.org/" website for firearm-related deaths, the Congressional Research Service 2012 for gun homicide rankings, and the mass shootings data is from The University of Alabama. All credible resources that use FACTS. These statistics are real.

Good job citing a website run by a gun advocate that has been widely discredited. https://thinkprogress.org/debunking-john-lott-5456e83cf326/
 
Honestly, don't give a fuck what you think either Jizzy. No feelings hurt on my behalf. Between this, and your hatred posts in the other threads show that you are just as much a part of the problem as many people who claim to want tolerance and acceptance. Yet, are the worst offenders of it.

BTW, great job in posting a heavily biased website such as "ThinkProgress". Like anything, need to take it with a grain of salt. "Facts" can be countered with other "facts". Which is what I did.

No one wins, and this just swirls down the proverbial shitter. get over it.
 
So much for the tolerant left... :( Can't help it, I hate people like you and consider you a blight upon the world.

Oh, you mean facts vs "Alternative facts," huh?
 
What I mean by "facts" is that you can take numbers and spin then a multitude of ways to come to many different conclusions. Such as when I questioned your "numbers". Yes, if you look at straight up numbers of shootings, the US will be one of the countries with higher occurrances. Why? Because we have a higher population than many other countries. However, if you take it on a per-capita, percentage basis, we're actually much lower than other countries. Which number is correct? Depends upon the perspective you want to portray.

The problem is that far too many people think that gun control is the easy and quick answer. When, it really isn't and will make matters worse in many regards.

I ask you to read this study done by the Pew Research. It's really a good break down of the demographics, etc and is about as unbiased of a study as I've ever seen.

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/americas-complex-relationship-with-guns/

You may not like it, based upon your views. But, I do ask you to read it with an open mind as it will show many different aspects of things related to the topic at hand.
 
I've never had a car accident in 40+ years of driving, you?

Accidents are not a very good reflection of driving behaviour. Perhaps you are an angry driver who swears, shouts and bangs your hands on the steering wheel if someone cuts you off? Or, perhaps you stalk someone, waiting for the opportunity to jump out and road rage them? One can drive for 40+ years without an accident and still be an asshole behind the wheel. Or, one can be a great driver, doing everything right and be hit multiple times over the years.

As for your San Bernadino meme, as I've stated here before.....a good portion of the problem is the lack of enforcement of said gun control laws and regulations.

How do you control criminals whom have no intent of legally purchasing firearms, and get them from elsewhere? Who then take them across state/country borders?

Again, I refer back to my references of drivers who have had 30+ DWI/DUI's and keep acquiring vehicles and offenses when they have no license? Prohibition didn't work, and the war on drugs isn't either.

Get my point?
 
Bitch, what the fuck:meh:

I agreed and stated an opinion, shoot me.
The way we speak about things is so important. The language we choose, and all that jazz...

With that in mind, I must point out that expressions such as "shoot me" normalize gun violence. You are literally contributing to the death of innocents when you carelessly say things like that. Gun culture.
 
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Is anyone going to acknowledge the fact that even if you do have a gun for defense and know how to use it that doesn't mean you'll be safe? Unless you've been trained in highly stressful situations, chances are you're going to freeze/run when you see people dropping around you if you're in an area being attacked. You can believe you'll be all badass and stop someone from attacking, but the reality of those situations is messy. You will get scared.
We had a cop come in to my old vanilla job to tell us what to do if there was an open shooter situation. You run and get out of there; if you can't do that you find someplace to hide; if you can't do either your last resort is to defend yourself physically against the attacker. You don't try to be a hero because you're not a hero. On top of that, when the cops show up looking for a shooter and they see you standing there with your gun out it's likely they won't take chances that you're just some innocent dude with a concealed and carry who happened to be in the area.
 
Question. What ethical hunter is hunting with an AR-15?

An ethical hunter uses the tools which they are most comfortable with.

it should only take one bullet. You don't need to unload a clip into a squirrel.

Many hunters who use an AR do just that. Just because it's a semi-auto doesn't mean you need to empty a magazine into an animal to kill it.

Also, many who use the AR for hunting and other sporting purposes such as target leagues, three-gun, etc. use AR's because that is the platform they learned to shoot with while in the military. Just like countless generations before them, they use what they are most familiar with. The US, unlike Switzerland, retains firearms issued to soldiers. In Switzerland, they keep their firearm once they are done with their military service. Yet, they have far fewer crimes and gun crimes due to a difference in social behaviour. Interesting Time article:

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/
 
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An ethical hunter uses the tools which they are most comfortable with.



Many hunters who use an AR do just that. Just because it's a semi-auto doesn't mean you need to empty a magazine into an animal to kill it.

Also, many who use the AR for hunting and other sporting purposes such as target leagues, three-gun, etc. use AR's because that is the platform they learned to shoot with while in the military. Just like countless generations before them, they use what they are most familiar with. The US, unlike Switzerland, retains firearms issued to soldiers. In Switzerland, they keep their firearm once they are done with their military service. Yet, they have far fewer crimes and gun crimes due to a difference in social behaviour. Interesting Time article:

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

I think it's because I'm a pretty classical hunter. I think compound bows are cheating.
 
it should only take one bullet. You don't need to unload a clip into a squirrel.
That is a silly caricature. If you believe that, then AR's aren't the issue. Anything semi-automatic is just as unethical.

I suspect the whole hunting-as-justification is a little overstated anyway though. Several ARs in my family, none hunt anymore.
 
Is anyone going to acknowledge the fact that even if you do have a gun for defense and know how to use it that doesn't mean you'll be safe? Unless you've been trained in highly stressful situations, chances are you're going to freeze/run when you see people dropping around you if you're in an area being attacked. You can believe you'll be all badass and stop someone from attacking, but the reality of those situations is messy. You will get scared.
We had a cop come in to my old vanilla job to tell us what to do if there was an open shooter situation. You run and get out of there; if you can't do that you find someplace to hide; if you can't do either your last resort is to defend yourself physically against the attacker. You don't try to be a hero because you're not a hero. On top of that, when the cops show up looking for a shooter and they see you standing there with your gun out it's likely they won't take chances that you're just some innocent dude with a concealed and carry who happened to be in the area.

This was brought up in early discussions. Yes, training is key in many situations, and every person is different in how they respond to stress. Some cower in fear, others freeze up not knowing what to do, others will react appropriately.
I'm all for training people about firearms, even if they never have plans to own one. Why? Because it will help eliminate a lot of stigma and ignorance from people who have no personal experience. It will also help teach people, especially children, responsible actions on how to handle and treat firearms. There used to be a time when it was common to be taught about firearms in schools. I'm happy to see that there is the high school trap leagues: https://sssfonline.org

More importantly, I'm all for continued training. Not just for those who choose to carry. But, for everyone who owns a firearm. I don't think it should be mandated by laws. Rather that people are willingly training for proficiency and keeping their skills up, as well as familiarization of safe firearm handling.

As to your scenario, of private citizen who carries, an officer who blatantly shoots a person without demanding they put the weapon down would be strung up on charges. This scenario, without shooting the citizen, happens frequently. The armed citizen would comply and put the firearm down, or hands in the air then put the gun down so as to avoid the situation you described.
 
I think it's because I'm a pretty classical hunter. I think compound bows are cheating.

Fewer people hunt with recurves than ever before. Therefore, if they are not skilled, it is not an ethical hunt as they run the risk of injuring an animal or killing it via sepsis. I primarily hunt with a compound simply because that is what I am most proficient with. But, I am also working on skills with recurve, both from a hunting perspective as well as FITA (Olympic style) recurve tournaments.
 
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Fewer people hunt with recurves than ever before. Therefore, if they are not skilled, it is not an ethical hunt as they run the risk of injuring an animal or killing it via sepsis. I primarily hunt with a compound simply because that is what I am most proficient with. But, I am also working on skills with recurve, both from a hunting perspective as well as FITA (Olympic style) recurve tournaments.

Oh no I agree fully. I personally think it's cheating because it doesn't feel the same. Pulling back a 40lb draw string is hard for most people. I was in archery leagues too, I'm aware of FITA.
 
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it should only take one bullet. You don't need to unload a clip into a squirrel.
Maybe if we allow them to hunt with a flame thrower they can eliminate the barbeque. :haha:
I also noticed the favorite "San Bernadino" gun law argument was used instead of the gun laws in Nevada and Texas. Lack of enforcement is the issue everywhere.
 
If you need all the modern technology and weaponry you can get to feel "comfortable" while hunting, you need a new hobby. Buy some meat and take a camera to the woods instead. Leave the hunting to folks who have sportsmanship. There's more to hunting than killing something real good.
 
On top of that, when the cops show up looking for a shooter and they see you standing there with your gun out it's likely they won't take chances that you're just some innocent dude with a concealed and carry who happened to be in the area.
Isn’t that what happened recently at the Walmart shooting? The cops had a hard time searching the footage because so many people were waving guns around that it was hard to discern the perpetrator from the ~good guys~?
 
All of you people that are against gun control when all the facts are utterly against you just blow my mind.The USA has more mass shootings than any other nation in the world. This nation accounts for only around 5% of the world's population, yet around 31% of mass shootings over the past 60+ years have occurred here. The USA ranks 31st in rates of gun violence and when you consider the countries ahead of us and behind us in that grouping, it is appalling. Compared to other high-income countries, the gun homicide rate of the USA is 25.2 times higher. That's utterly insane!

No one cares what some bible-thumping redneck has to say about guns. The facts are against him. The facts are against you. You are living in total delusion. Get with the rest of the developed world and adopt gun control.

I don't think the pro-gun folk care about facts and figures. They like guns and don't want their access to guns restricted any more than they already are and that's the situation in its totality. They don't care that stricter gun control would cut down on mass shootings or even that they themselves would be statistically safer. Any figures they might point to or any rationale they might use for being against stricter gun control is a crutch. They like guns and the loss of human life is the price they are willing to pay for their guns.
 
Question. What ethical hunter is hunting with an AR-15?


Pretty much all of them, and they have been for decades.

What exactly is unethical about using one for hunting? You do understand an AR-15 is no different than any other hunting rifle, right? They fire the exact same bullets. Pretty much every caliber for every type of game. Ironically, most AR-15 rifles sold on the market are chambered in far less powerful calibers than common large game hunting cartridges.

The entire term 'assault rifle' is made up. Outside of the military, or people willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to own one, they don't exist in wide public distribution. The term itself was made up by people afraid of guns purely to make them sound scary, legislators in the 80's trying to get them banned for no reason. An assault rifle is fully automatic, primarily for military use. Hunters aren't using assault rifles. The AR in AR-15 simply stands for ArmaLite. That company developed it, probably over 40 years before you were born, back in the 1950's.

The AR-15 is the most widely used hunting rifle today. And has been for years. And that's what it is, simply a sporting rifle. They 'look' like a military rifle, but function completely different. In fact they function exactly the same as any other hunting rifle, one round fired for each pull of the trigger.

Here's the real reason they are popular. They are modular. You can get one basic setup, then switch out barrels and accessories. You can put in a large bore barrel to go shoot Elk, then switch it out to go for rabbits. Put in a shotgun barrel even to use for quail, pheasant, or turkey hunting. Then when not hunting, it can be switched out again for a good home defense system. It's cheaper than having multiple firearms that way, and your scopes, hand grips, laser sights... can all be used throughout.

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it should only take one bullet. You don't need to unload a clip into a squirrel.

Let me show you the first rifle my parents bought me as a 10 year old kid. The Marlin Model 60 (not this exact photo, just the same model). A simple little .22 long rifle. Known by anyone who knows rifles as a 'plinker.' Great for shooting squirrels, rabbits, and other small game. Also great for continually shooting at the same tree as target practice, until that tree gets too weak and falls on his fathers RV. But that's another story. By all means, a great gun for a kid to start out on.

Marlin-Model-60-full.jpg



Now, this is a much feared AR style Smith & Wesson M&P. Scary enough to have people calling for it to be banned.

Yet they are the same gun. They fire the same bullet at the exact same rate of fire, as fast as you can pull the trigger, release, and pull again. To single out an AR style rifle as anything unique is just laughable.

Actually, I lied a bit. There is one major difference. My 'plinker' I had when I was 10 years old, held more bullets. This 'assault rifle' below has a 10 round magazine. My rifle held 18 bullets in the tube. I routinely carried around 1.8 times the killing power of the AR.

kIBh0in.jpg
 
Pretty much all of them, and they have been for decades.

What exactly is unethical about using one for hunting? You do understand an AR-15 is no different than any other hunting rifle, right? They fire the exact same bullets. Pretty much every caliber for every type of game. Ironically, most AR-15 rifles sold on the market are chambered in far less powerful calibers than common large game hunting cartridges.

The entire term 'assault rifle' is made up. Outside of the military, or people willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to own one, they don't exist in wide public distribution. The term itself was made up by people afraid of guns purely to make them sound scary, legislators in the 80's trying to get them banned for no reason. An assault rifle is fully automatic, primarily for military use. Hunters aren't using assault rifles. The AR in AR-15 simply stands for ArmaLite. That company developed it, probably over 40 years before you were born, back in the 1950's.

The AR-15 is the most widely used hunting rifle today. And has been for years. And that's what it is, simply a sporting rifle. They 'look' like a military rifle, but function completely different. In fact they function exactly the same as any other hunting rifle, one round fired for each pull of the trigger.

Here's the real reason they are popular. They are modular. You can get one basic setup, then switch out barrels and accessories. You can put in a large bore barrel to go shoot Elk, then switch it out to go for rabbits. Put in a shotgun barrel even to use for quail, pheasant, or turkey hunting. Then when not hunting, it can be switched out again for a good home defense system. It's cheaper than having multiple firearms that way, and your scopes, hand grips, laser sights... can all be used throughout.

--



Let me show you the first rifle my parents bought me as a 10 year old kid. The Marlin Model 60 (not this exact photo, just the same model). A simple little .22 long rifle. Known by anyone who knows rifles as a 'plinker.' Great for shooting squirrels, rabbits, and other small game. Also great for continually shooting at the same tree as target practice, until that tree gets too weak and falls on his fathers RV. But that's another story. By all means, a great gun for a kid to start out on.

View attachment 73342



Now, this is a much feared AR style Smith & Wesson M&P. Scary enough to have people calling for it to be banned.

Yet they are the same gun. They fire the same bullet at the exact same rate of fire, as fast as you can pull the trigger, release, and pull again. To single out an AR style rifle as anything unique is just laughable.

Actually, I lied a bit. There is one major difference. My 'plinker' I had when I was 10 years old, held more bullets. This 'assault rifle' below has a 10 round magazine. My rifle held 18 bullets in the tube. I routinely carried around 1.8 times the killing power of the AR.

View attachment 73345
Do you agree that they're the same gun if you add a bump stock and 100 round clip to the AR? Both aftermarket modifications.

The modifications people do to make them more lethal is the problem, and those products should not be available to the general public without a more thorough background check, like you have when you apply for a federal firearms permit.
 
Oh no I agree fully. I personally think it's cheating because it doesn't feel the same. Pulling back a 40lb draw string is hard for most people. I was in archery leagues too, I'm aware of FITA.

Everyone has different views on "cheating" when it comes to different skills. Use what you're accustomed and most proficient with. But, be realistic when it comes to a shot. Most people forget that. They put their rifle, bow, etc away after they're done with the season and won't touch it until maybe the day before they leave to go hunt the following year.
 
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