Elementary School Shooting In Connecticut

[Bocefish]

I'd support arming certain selected teachers after proper training. Just like there are armed air marshals on commercial flights. A select one or few teachers in every school depending on size and properly trained with access to a locked firearm would be fine by me. These cowards choose gun free zones for a reason.

:twocents-02cents:

Right, cos there's absolutely noooooooooooooo way that some dipshit students might somehow get ahold of those guns. More guns in schools is clearly not the answer.

I disagree.

If done correctly, nobody but the Principle and selected trained teacher(s) would know who has access to the weapons and police band radios or where they are.

Teachers are no more above suspicion than anyone else though - just look at cases of child sexual abuse. I wouldn't want a gunman coming in to a school with kids but I equally wouldn't want elementary school teachers packing heat in a classroom of 7 year olds. Also, the guy was reportedly wearing a bullet-proof vest - it's debateable whether any of the teachers could have neutralised him before he shot them.

Bring your troops back from Afghanistan and station one in each school as a security guard if that's the only solution.

Of course, the possible willing teachers would be mentally/physically tested along with thorough background checks... which is what I meant by a selected few prior to being properly trained. If they don't pass the tests, then nobody will be trained. However, the cowards that choose gun free school settings will never know that and assume there will be armed individuals somewhere in the school making them at least think twice. Oh, and a bullet proof vest does absolutely nothing to stop a head, leg or groin shot.

 

[Nordling]

What a horrid post.

LMAO, Nordling! You read through all of that???

Ha! Kind of like slowing down at a highway wreckage.

 

[Bocefish]

http://elitedaily.com/elite/2012/morgan-freeman-shares-thoughts-tragic-shooting-sandy-hook/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=morgan-freeman-shares-thoughts-tragic-shooting-sandy-hook

Especially liked the last paragraph:

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man’s name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.”
-Morgan Freeman

 

[Red7227]

Bring your troops back from Afghanistan and station one in each school as a security guard if that's the only solution.

About the only thing that would work anyway. It would be a great job for all of those stressed guys that just don't fit in any more. Kids are hyper enough to keep their attention.

 

[Bocefish]

Bring your troops back from Afghanistan and station one in each school as a security guard if that's the only solution.

About the only thing that would work anyway. It would be a great job for all of those stressed guys that just don't fit in any more. Kids are hyper enough to keep their attention.

Here's a thought... How about worrying about your own fucked up countries and stop pretending you know what's best for Americans.

 

[Nordling]

Bring your troops back from Afghanistan and station one in each school as a security guard if that's the only solution.

About the only thing that would work anyway. It would be a great job for all of those stressed guys that just don't fit in any more. Kids are hyper enough to keep their attention.

Here's a thought... How about worrying about your own fucked up countries and stop pretending you know what's best for Americans.

This is a discussion. Murder, horror, abuse... all these and more... they aren't just about America. Everyone should be able to contribute without someone claiming they have bad credentials.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Because Americans never act like they know what's best for the rest of the world.

 

[Jupiter551]

^

 

[AllisonWilder]

Bring your troops back from Afghanistan and station one in each school as a security guard if that's the only solution.

About the only thing that would work anyway. It would be a great job for all of those stressed guys that just don't fit in any more. Kids are hyper enough to keep their attention.

Middle and high schools already have security guards, police liason officers stationed inside the buildings, all but the main door locked after the first bell rings and checkpoints to enter the schools. One extra military person wouldn't make much of a difference, there would have to be at least a dozen in a school because there's no way that one person can be everywhere at once. All it takes is for someone to come in a different door and then it's too late.

 

[Mirra]

Of course, the possible willing teachers would be mentally/physically tested along with thorough background checks... which is what I meant by a selected few prior to being properly trained. If they don't pass the tests, then nobody will be trained. However, the cowards that choose gun free school settings will never know that and assume there will be armed individuals somewhere in the school making them at least think twice. Oh, and a bullet proof vest does absolutely nothing to stop a head, leg or groin shot.

Guns be damned, we need to do a better job of helping teachers with their mental health. They're already supposed to be entrusted with quite a lot of kids every day. I don't know about other areas, but the stories I hear from my mother makes it sound like the administration just makes their stress worse rather than helping though. I've heard a story of one teacher who had to be let go after putting her hand through the glass of an overhead projector and telling a kid "Next time it's your head." With what these teachers go through every week, I'm surprised more of them don't snap to be honest. Arming even the most well intentioned of them does not sound good to me.

 

[lordmagellan]

I'd support arming certain selected teachers after proper training. Just like there are armed air marshals on commercial flights. A select one or few teachers in every school depending on size and properly trained with access to a locked firearm would be fine by me. These cowards choose gun free zones for a reason.

:twocents-02cents:

Because nothing could wrong with that scenario.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

I think this mom gets it exactly right.

I am Adam Lanza’s Mother
It's time to talk about mental illness

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

“I can wear these pants,” he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

“They are navy blue,” I told him. “Your school’s dress code says black or khaki pants only.”

“They told me I could wear these,” he insisted. “You’re a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!”

“You can’t wear whatever pants you want to,” I said, my tone affable, reasonable. “And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You’re grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school.”

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me....

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza’s mother. I am Dylan Klebold’s and Eric Harris’s mother. I am Jason Holmes’s mother. I am Jared Loughner’s mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho’s mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

http://thebluereview.org/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother/

My nephew pulled a knife on my sister a couple of times as older teenager and threatened to kill her. When a mom's choices are call the cops and have your kid go to jail, throw the kid out of the house which ultimately happened at age 19, or live in terror of your son, we have a problem. A problem which no amount of feel good gun legislation is going to fix.

 

[Jupiter551]

My nephew pulled a knife on my sister a couple of times as older teenager and threatened to kill her. When a mom's choices are call the cops and have your kid go to jail, throw the kid out of the house which ultimately happened at age 19, or live in terror of your son, we have a problem. A problem which no amount of feel good gun legislation is going to fix.

Wait, wouldn't making mental illness care and evaluation free to the public be

(gasp) socialism?!

Btw, if you can't bring yourself to call the cops on your son, or throw him out of the house, it doesn't seem likely you're going to shoot him either, so it's no argument for anyone but police to need guns.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

My nephew pulled a knife on my sister a couple of times as older teenager and threatened to kill her. When a mom's choices are call the cops and have your kid go to jail, throw the kid out of the house which ultimately happened at age 19, or live in terror of your son, we have a problem. A problem which no amount of feel good gun legislation is going to fix.

Wait, wouldn't making mental illness care and evaluation free to the public be

(gasp) socialism?!

Btw, if you can't bring yourself to call the cops on your son, or throw him out of the house, it doesn't seem likely you're going to shoot him either, so it's no argument for anyone but police to need guns.

Perhaps but there is nothing in the constitution which prohibits socialism unlike "... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

 

[Nordling]

You can't quote the second amendment with the second clause only. It goes:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It's a shitty sentence. And there's a question about which version is even proper. The version passed by Congress is slightly different than the one ratified by the states. If the two clauses were in two sentences, it'd be a bit clearer, but despite what the right-wing supreme court decided, I don't think it's clear at all.

Not to mention, that "ARMS" at that time was a musket, not a semiautomatic kill machine.

 

[Jupiter551]

You can't quote the second amendment with the second clause only. It goes:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It's a shitty sentence. And there's a question about which version is even proper. The version passed by Congress is slightly different than the one ratified by the states. If the two clauses were in two sentences, it'd be a bit clearer, but despite what the right-wing supreme court decided, I don't think it's clear at all.

Not to mention, that "ARMS" at that time was a musket, not a semiautomatic kill machine.

Wasn't it also written at a time when militias had just fought in a revolution against an oppressive government, and there was widespread civilian suspicion of standing armies - basically the popular notion that they may just have to fight the new government as well? I know it's been ruled that the right to bear arms doesn't imply being part of a regulated militia, but it's very difficult to see that the two elements of the same sentence aren't connected.

 

[Jupiter551]

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

You can't quote the second amendment with the second clause only. It goes:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

It's a shitty sentence. And there's a question about which version is even proper. The version passed by Congress is slightly different than the one ratified by the states. If the two clauses were in two sentences, it'd be a bit clearer, but despite what the right-wing supreme court decided, I don't think it's clear at all.

Not to mention, that "ARMS" at that time was a musket, not a semiautomatic kill machine.

Well I'll agree it is one of the most ambiguous parts of the constitution.

As for opinion, perhaps after you tell me what law school you attended, and if you point me to a law school brief you wrote on the second amendment. I might actually care about your opinion on the interpreting the constitution.

I've read Justice Scalia opinion in theD.C V Heller case, read Steven's dissent and skimmed Alito's opinion in the McDonald V Chicago. Scalia
I'd suggest you do the same or at the vary least read the pretty good wiki article.

It is settled law with two case by two different courts. Just like Roe V Wade and the follow on cases.
American have the right to own guns for self defense period full stop regardless of the militia clause. Get over it. Which is why I omitted the militia cause it is irrelevant for a foreigner trying to understand our gun rights.

The essence of the Heller case is that whatevever the logical arguments for placing restriction on the type of guns, magazine etc. they are less important that fundamental right of gun ownership. The same thing is true for free speech rights. As despicable as it to yell crap about God's punishment for gays at Marines funerals, the free speech rights of the crazy Westboro Baptist people triumph the rights of families to bury their son in peace. Our bill of rights protects the rights of minorities be they gun owners, religious nuts cases, or occupy wall street anarchists often to the detriment of the majority.

Any type of restrictions on gun ownership have to be narrowly drawn, for example prohibiting machine guns, or gun ownership by criminal or mentally ill people. There is simply no constitutional way to keep a teacher from owning guns in this tragedy, or a college student in the Virginia Tech shootings. People who believe differently are ignorant of how the constitution works. In the same way that folks who believe they can pass laws to outlaw abortion, are delusional. It just isn't going to happen, unless the Supreme Court changes its mind, or the constitution gets amended.

Which is why this whole gun control fight is so pointless. The problem is the dangerous people not the dangerous objects.

 

[Jupiter551]

or the constitution gets amended.

Which, of course, is totally unthinkable and without precedent *cough 2nd amendment cough*

 

[EdgarAllenWhoa]

I don't know where to go with this one. I think to a certain extent it's still shock and horror that something like this happens. Whether changes to a constitution are the answer I am sure that's for legal minds far and above what I could contribute. Maybe I am wrong but the founding fathers I thought placed on the back saying essentially "Hey if this ain't working for ya chuck it out and start it again" I am sure that I am paraphrasing.
I think the one thing that comes out of this is that a debate is is going to happen and it should happen.
To some of the replies I will say this say and it's just my opinion and that's all. I don't think that more weapons are the answer.

The one idea I have always thought was something to bounce off. Why not make the manufacturers accountable for some their actions? Why not have them install fingerprint grips?
I mean we arrest bootleggers for booze. We put drug dealers in the joint for dealing. Why not think of arms manufacturers as the same? They produce a product that is considered a restricted item and its potentially lethal to the owner/people around it.
I am a weapons owner myself. Don't get me wrong I think that AR-15, AK-47's or Desert Eagles are cool and would be fun to shoot around. But, I would never want one in my firearms cabinet. If you need to shoot more than once then you need to practice to be a better shot.

But in the end just watching the news for the last 48 hours...we should be talking about this...maybe we can't fix everything but maybe we can close some loop holes and reduce the chances for this happening again. I don't know, it's just such a damn tragedy in the end.

 

[bob]

And I might add...

Different people have different ways of dealing with tragedy. Anyone who's ever been to a wake probably has noticed this. Some of it may seem "disrespectful" or even crazy...but really, it's just how different folks react...and it's all valid.

yep



it's a big damn planet....kind of a shame when something like this makes us smaller....not bigger....

 

[Jobs4Adults.com]

Probably soon they will use weapons control technology to check EVERYBODY who enters in a crowded place, especially schools.

They already have these detectors in a lot of high schools and colleges in the US. My high school implemented them the year I graduated. The only way into the school was to walk through a metal detector and someone sitting at a table checked your stuff before you were allowed to enter.

I don't think anyone ever thought they'd need to implement security checkpoints into an elementary school.

Allison, I guess the security measures from your high-school will be aplied as I said to ANY public place...........it seems that is the cost for having so many weapons...And probably the gun sellers and makers will be forced into supporting part of these "more security measurements"!

 

[Bocefish]

Btw, if you can't bring yourself to call the cops on your son, or throw him out of the house, it doesn't seem likely you're going to shoot him either, so it's no argument for anyone but police to need guns.

Ya, the only reason to own a gun is to shoot your family members when they won't listen to you.

 

[bob]

Btw, if you can't bring yourself to call the cops on your son, or throw him out of the house, it doesn't seem likely you're going to shoot him either, so it's no argument for anyone but police to need guns.

Ya, the only reason to own a gun is to shoot your family members when they won't listen to you.

not to be the king of bad taste here....but i've often wonder if that wasn't true :whistle:

:lol:

 

[Bocefish]

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I could do the same thing. All I had to do was type in accidental shooting alone and I got 2300 results, where a 3 year old dies, a policeman's daughter dies, teenagers die, Dad accidentally shoots and kills his son at a gun store. I just didn't feel the need to post all 2300 videos.

 

[Harvrath]

Let us look at the shooter.

The shooter in this case was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. Described as Painfully shy (to the point of withdrawing from social contact, flight or fight response triggered). He was insensitive to pain (physical and psychological pain, possibly unable to empathize with others?, Asperger's usually comes with sensory issues). Non-verbal communication will fly over his head as it does with most Asperger's (unless they are taught it). Usually Asperger's presents with other psychological issues: Depression, Anxiety and ADHD to name a few. This kid was described as hyper-intelligent, IQ is probably off the charts! Grew up in the top 1% or very near to it (home was worth 1.6 Million dollars), his parents divorced just a couple of years ago, his father remarried and supported his ex-wife and kids to the tune of about $400,000 a year! He was a nerd, a loner. This kid was the type that carried a black briefcase to school.

Look at all the Rampage killers and they all have mental health issues. Charles Whitman (one of the first) had a brain tumor in the hypothalmus that was pressing on the amygdalae, was probably there for years and would have killed him within a year. He sought help, numerous times for his increased aggression and his severe headaches. He was always prescribed a pill, like valium.

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

This kid and his mom needs serious help. He definitely falls in the Autism spectrum. This kid could easily go on to cure cancer or discover faster-than-light travel but right now he appears to be on the path of becoming a rampage killer. And there are many more kids just like him. They are not evil. Asperger's can grow up to be normal, decent, loving husbands and fathers. They can be 'normal', they just need the help to get there.

But lets ban guns. That'll solve the issue.

Headlines of tomorrow: Killer used children's Chemistry Set, cleaning ammonia and wood finish to make explosives. Congress to tighten regulations on the sale and possession of chemistry sets, ammonia and wood finish.

 

[bob]

Let us look at the shooter.

The shooter in this case was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome. Described as Painfully shy (to the point of withdrawing from social contact, flight or fight response triggered). He was insensitive to pain (physical and psychological pain, possibly unable to empathize with others?, Asperger's usually comes with sensory issues). Non-verbal communication will fly over his head as it does with most Asperger's (unless they are taught it). Usually Asperger's presents with other psychological issues: Depression, Anxiety and ADHD to name a few. This kid was described as hyper-intelligent, IQ is probably off the charts! Grew up in the top 1% or very near to it (home was worth 1.6 Million dollars), his parents divorced just a couple of years ago, his father remarried and supported his ex-wife and kids to the tune of about $400,000 a year! He was a nerd, a loner. This kid was the type that carried a black briefcase to school.

Look at all the Rampage killers and they all have mental health issues. Charles Whitman (one of the first) had a brain tumor in the hypothalmus that was pressing on the amygdalae, was probably there for years and would have killed him within a year. He sought help, numerous times for his increased aggression and his severe headaches. He was always prescribed a pill, like valium.

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

This kid and his mom needs serious help. He definitely falls in the Autism spectrum. This kid could easily go on to cure cancer or discover faster-than-light travel but right now he appears to be on the path of becoming a rampage killer. And there are many more kids just like him. They are not evil. Asperger's can grow up to be normal, decent, loving husbands and fathers. They can be 'normal', they just need the help to get there.

But lets ban guns. That'll solve the issue.

Headlines of tomorrow: Killer used children's Chemistry Set, cleaning ammonia and wood finish to make explosives. Congress to tighten regulations on the sale and possession of chemistry sets, ammonia and wood finish.

agreed....
but it comes with the following issue, too, doesn't it?
mental health is thus acknowledged as a public health issue.....an entitlement, some in this country would say.......
as part of the reagan budget cuts for the state of CA back back back when he was govenor.....he closed most of the mental health facilities.....

some would say that contributed heavily to the institution of the homeless here.

none of it is as black and white as "what some would say" of course
but the need for balance is clear, imo
:twocents-02cents:

 

[Bocefish]

If Obama wants to do something "meaningful," overhauling the mental health care system would be a lot more "meaningful" than banning so-called assault weapons. Even if you have money and are willing to travel... in many cases you can't do anything until the individual has already done something which is too late by then.

There are over 311,000,000 people in this country and just one mentally ill person a month can do something horrible for the media and internet to run wild with that gets everybody in a frenzy crying for a new law.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 solved what? Nothing is what it solved, but it is this type of incidence that gets the gun grabbers all fired up and think making another law will fix everything. Cocaine, heroin and marijuana are still illegal but how many people here smoke bud regularly? Laws are for people with a good moral compass and padlocks are used to help keep honest people honest. Laws and restrictions mean nothing to a mentally ill person willing to commit matricide without a second thought.

There isn't a reasonable gun restriction that mother would not have passed. Her unstable son could have killed just as many innocent 6 and 7 year olds with a knife and a gallon of gasoline, or two old fashioned wheel guns, a Ruger 10-22, homemade pipe bombs, or mowing them down at recess with a vehicle, and on and on... you can't simply legislate mental health problems away by outlawing inanimate objects.

 

[Jupiter551]

lol inorite, goddamn obama not trying to reform the health system, it's all his fault.