ACF 2012 Presidential Election Poll

[tubby556]

Spent years as a rape victim advocate, I've said that previously in this thread.

Big difference between being an advocate and being an officer that sees the scene of the crime. Don't pretend to be in my shoes.

Are you even for real? I have seen how the so called law enforcement treat real rape victims, and that its pretty fucking shitty. Don't come up in here acting like you give a fuck, you clearly don't. YOU are the one who wants to make it difficult to even prosecute rape perpetrators by making the VICTIM PAY TO GATHER EVIDENCE.

Victim to pay to gather evidence? Where did I say that? Please provide a direct quotation. I'd love to see it.

And lets not forget with the frequency of rape in the US, there are probably some models here who feel revictimized by your own bullshit. So fuck you, if you're a troll, it worked.

Troll? Search my past posts starting when I joined this forum and then rethink that. I'm not a troll. Just someone that you don't agree with.

 

[Nordling]

BTW, I've noticed that many libertarian minded people like to trot out the old cow: "The US isn't a democracy, it's a republic." Fact is, it's both. It's a Republic in the sense that we have a smaller group of people that handle most of the governance of the nation; it's a Democracy in the sense that that group is elected by the populace at large. In the US, we also have referendums in many states that are decided by direct democratic vote.

Further blurring the line:

This bipartite division of government types differs from the classical sources, and also the earlier of Machiavelli's own works, which divided governments into three types: monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy. As Machiavelli wrote, the distinction between an aristocracy ruled by a select elite and a democracy ruled by a council appointed by the people became cumbersome. By the time Machiavelli began work on The Prince, he had decided to refer to both aristocracies and democracies as republics.

At any rate, it's silly to trot that out, since it's a non sequitur.

 

[LadyLuna]

I guarantee most on this very forum couldn't handle what I've seen in my lifetime.

I went through foster care. At the age of five I had been in a grand total of four houses in two months, and had been admitted into a group home as being unwanted. I was terrorized by a woman who was a stranger to me, to the point where I couldn't make myself take a shit until I dealt with it at the age of 20. And still can't stop picking at my lips until they're a raw scabby mess.

During puberty, my imagination held me hostage every single night and forced me to live through all sorts of tortures. Later, I found out that most of what I had imagined, other people had actually experienced, usually right when I was imagining it. Through my sexual practices as a young adult, I found that what I saw, felt, smelled, tasted, and heard was pretty damn accurate for someone who's never experienced them.

My best friend in high school was bipolar and I sat with her through a depressive episode convincing her that she wasn't worthless, and sat with her through a manic episode, to prove to her that I wasn't afraid even though the smile on her face made me think she would grab a knife and slit my throat if I made the wrong move.

I spent most of my life hiding from the horrors of reality by using books, video games, and roleplaying. I was so good at it you had to touch me to get my attention, words wouldn't reach me.

And I know for a fact that absolutely none of that is comparable to what you went though, because you cannot compare tragedies. They are all tragic, in their own way.

By saying that we couldn't handle what you've seen, you are making assumptions about us.

Here on the forum, I see only support for aborting the pregnancy and no support for childbirth. Interesting.

I think most people figure rape victims want to abort the fetus. I do not know for certain how I would react, but I'm pretty sure I would carry the baby to term, because I would not hold the child responsible for their father's mistake.

I know the man responsible for the rape ends up having to pay child support if he's caught and she keeps it. I think he should have to pay for the abortion if she decides to abort, because it's his fault she's pregnant.

 

[tubby556]

What you find "interesting" isn't about supporting childbirth or not...it's about the privacy and choices of individual women. When a woman decides to have a child, you will see plenty of support.

Because that's the default thought. Protect and cherish human life. The problem is one side says kill it, the other says save it. There can be middle ground.

I support both choices but I don't want to pay for either choice when the choice isn't mine to make. That's my problem with the issue.

 

[Neudiin]

BTW, I've noticed that many libertarian minded people like to trot out the old cow: "The US isn't a democracy, it's a republic." Fact is, it's both. It's a Republic in the sense that we have a smaller group of people that handle most of the governance of the nation; it's a Democracy in the sense that that group is elected by the populace at large. In the US, we also have referendums in many states that are decided by direct democratic vote.

Gonna leave this here =)

 

[tubby556]

BTW, I've noticed that many libertarian minded people like to trot out the old cow: "The US isn't a democracy, it's a republic." Fact is, it's both. It's a Republic in the sense that we have a smaller group of people that handle most of the governance of the nation; it's a Democracy in the sense that that group is elected by the populace at large. In the US, we also have referendums in many states that are decided by direct democratic vote.

Further blurring the line:

This bipartite division of government types differs from the classical sources, and also the earlier of Machiavelli's own works, which divided governments into three types: monarchy, aristocracy, and democracy. As Machiavelli wrote, the distinction between an aristocracy ruled by a select elite and a democracy ruled by a council appointed by the people became cumbersome. By the time Machiavelli began work on The Prince, he had decided to refer to both aristocracies and democracies as republics.

At any rate, it's silly to trot that out, since it's a non sequitur.

America is a constitutional republic with representatives elected by a democratic process. The form of government is republican. The process in which we elect officials to represent the citizens is democratic. They are two separate thing. The government is a republic.

Recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Notice the words "and for the republic for which it stands"? America is a republic. Then look over the Declaration of Independence and search for the word "democracy". You won't find it. Then look at the Constitution and look for the word "democracy". You won't find it. Well why in the fuck is the word "democracy" not used in our nation's most important documents? The ones that dictate the principles this country was founded upon. Ben Franklin was asked "what did you give us, a republic or a monarchy?" He responded "a republic, if you can keep it."

 

[tubby556]

Neudiin, I use that video to educate the misinformed too. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Nordling]

BTW, I've noticed that many libertarian minded people like to trot out the old cow: "The US isn't a democracy, it's a republic." Fact is, it's both. It's a Republic in the sense that we have a smaller group of people that handle most of the governance of the nation; it's a Democracy in the sense that that group is elected by the populace at large. In the US, we also have referendums in many states that are decided by direct democratic vote.

Gonna leave this here =)

Ha ha! You have GOT to be shitting me. Do you really mean to let the Fucking John Birch Society (the fascist fucks who produced this video) to teach you civics? I wouldn't trust them to bury a dog turd.

 

[tubby556]

Ha ha! You have GOT to be shitting me. Do you really mean to let the Fucking John Birch Society (the fascist fucks who produced this video) to teach you civics? I wouldn't trust them to bury a dog turd.

So you can't understand facts then?

Read the Federalist Papers. Then come talk to me.

But then again, $16 trillion in debt, $5.5 trillion in 3.5 years of it due to Obama, 23 million Americans unemployed, the country at war, and people are focused on abortions, gas prices, and socialist healthcare. America is fucked.

 

[JoleneBrody]

It's not free. It costs money and someone has to pay for it.

Was it really necessary for me to type out free to the victim? And actually, some are entirely free because of volunteers, but that wasn't nearly the point of this discussion.

I'll also drop this here again since you seemed to have missed it in my original post. :roll:

they could find many programs funded by state and federal dollars.

Even though many people are anti-war, tax dollars still pay for the care of veterans, including PTSD, AND THEY VOLUNTEERED! Are you also of the opinion that people should be able to opt out of that as well?

Choosing to keep the baby and receiving help from tax dollars was not being discussed. I have no opinion to share on that matter this evening, I just want to point out that just because it wasn't talked about it doesn't mean no one has an opinion. It just wasn't the subject of discussion.

But then again, $16 trillion in debt, $5.5 trillion in 3.5 years of it due to Obama, 23 million Americans unemployed, the country at war, and people are focused on abortions, gas prices, and socialist healthcare. America is fucked.

Yet here you are... Welcome to fuck town.

 

[tubby556]

Even though many people are anti-war, tax dollars still pay for the care of veterans, including PTSD, AND THEY VOLUNTEERED! Are you also of the opinion that people should be able to opt out of that as well?

No. They volunteered to put themselves in harm's way to protect you, America, and its values because that's what it takes. I served, I killed a lot of people that were enemies to the US, and I enjoyed killing every one of them. Your attempt to draw analogies is asinine. The people that are anti war are fucking retarded cowards. Si vis pacem, para bellum. Rape victims keep American citizens safe?

Choosing to keep the baby and receiving help from tax dollars was not being discussed. I have no opinion to share on that matter this evening, I just want to point out that just because it wasn't talked about it doesn't mean no one has an opinion. It just wasn't the subject of discussion.

Then you have no clue what you are talking about. Have you even paid attention to the direction of the thread topic?

But then again, $16 trillion in debt, $5.5 trillion in 3.5 years of it due to Obama, 23 million Americans unemployed, the country at war, and people are focused on abortions, gas prices, and socialist healthcare. America is fucked.

Yet here you are... Welcome to fuck town.[/quote]
Just counting down the time until election day.

 

[Nordling]

Ha ha! You have GOT to be shitting me. Do you really mean to let the Fucking John Birch Society (the fascist fucks who produced this video) to teach you civics? I wouldn't trust them to bury a dog turd.

So you can't understand facts then?

Read the Federalist Papers. Then come talk to me.

But then again, $16 trillion in debt, $5.5 trillion in 3.5 years of it due to Obama, 23 million Americans unemployed, the country at war, and people are focused on abortions, gas prices, and socialist healthcare. America is fucked.

Except none of that is true. YOU read the federalist papers. They are opinions among many of the founders, they do not constitute law. You are moving the goal posts...someone posts a bunch of idiotic crap by a Bircher and when I point this out, you go off on some wild tangent.

FOCUS!

 

[JoleneBrody]

I killed a lot of people that were enemies to the US, and I enjoyed killing every one of them.

You're fucking scary dude.

 

[DoctorVen]

I killed a lot of people that were enemies to the US, and I enjoyed killing every one of them.

You're fucking scary dude.

Hooray for government pawns!

 

[DoctorVen]

Why is it acceptable for you to call them cowards because they share a different belief than you?

Because he's right and we're all wrong, of course!!

But what do I know? I'm just a retarded coward. :roll:

 

[Nordling]

The Grand Old Rape Party:

These people make me ill.

 

[Jupiter551]

Tubby, you have problems it seems, lots of them, and many of them inside your own head it seems. Maybe you have PTSD. I think you should seek help, and failing that move to an island where you don't have to pay for anything for anyone else (and conversely no one pays for anything you use either).

It seems really odd that on the one hand you seem to display patriotism etc, on the other you despise the thought of contributing to your society for the benefit of others. Do you somehow concieve of the country you're patriotic about and the society you don't want to contribute to, are not the same thing?

 

[Jupiter551]

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

Quotations are great aren't they?

War is much too serious a thing to be left to military men.
~Charles Maurice de Talleyrand

 

[Nordling]

Even some military guys.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. –Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

[Shaun__]

It is possible abortion could be banned one day, so I think we need to ask everyone in America if they would allow victims of rape and incest to have abortions. If they say no then they have to split all child care costs among themselves and have to adopt as many children as needed in the event of abortions being outlawed. Also they have to be randomly be kicked in their torsos for nine months every every year, just to keep things fair. Maybe if they had that hanging over their heads they would reconsider their views.

 

[Mirra]

What you find "interesting" isn't about supporting childbirth or not...it's about the privacy and choices of individual women. When a woman decides to have a child, you will see plenty of support.

I support both choices but I don't want to pay for either choice when the choice isn't mine to make. That's my problem with the issue.

Well like I said, you need to get the fuck over yourself. The fact that our system allows for people with different opinions and priorities to run the country together means tax dollars will always go to things some people from one side or the other do not support. The only difference here is you think you're better than the people who, for example, don't like that their tax dollars went towards the Iraq war. I'll say it one more time. Get over yourself. It's called compromise and until we're all drones without the ability to think freely, it's going to happen.

Even though many people are anti-war, tax dollars still pay for the care of veterans, including PTSD, AND THEY VOLUNTEERED! Are you also of the opinion that people should be able to opt out of that as well?

No. They volunteered to put themselves in harm's way to protect you, America, and its values because that's what it takes. I served, I killed a lot of people that were enemies to the US, and I enjoyed killing every one of them. Your attempt to draw analogies is asinine. The people that are anti war are fucking retarded cowards. Si vis pacem, para bellum. Rape victims keep American citizens safe?

Yeah, you're a bit warped there, bud. I have my issues too but surely you realize your complete lack of remorse over killing so many people isn't the standard human reaction. As for war, I'm anti-war and think everyone who is pro-war are sick, twisted fucks. Being anti-war to me means we do everything practical within our power to avoid going to war over an issue short of rolling over and taking it. We must defend ourselves but other solutions should be attempted before an act of war is taken. Unfortunately there are going to be wars so I'll support the ones that are justified and where attempts to avoid war were attempted and exhausted (e.g. the other rumble in the sandbox in Afghanistan). Even being anti-war, I am very much FOR supporting those who serve because I have an enormous amount of respect for the majority of them because of the commitment they've made to preserving this country and it's people.

Just counting down the time until election day.

Well there's something I can agree with you on.

 

[Anonymous]

After dealing with over 1,000 rapes in my law enforcement career and arresting about the same number of rapists, forgive me if I get callous when I see the worst in humanity. You have to put up your guard when your heart gets ripped out of your chest. Have you ever known a rape victim? Have you ever watched them wretch in disgust and humility and helplessness when they are recalling their torture and experience? Have you ever seen a woman go into panic induced convulsions at the jingling of keys because that's what her rapist did to taunt her for the 46 days she was repeatedly raped, tortured, cut, choked, burned, defecated up, and then dumped into a garbage dumpster? Have you ever tried to comfort a 6yo girl who wants to die because she's tired of her mother holding her down so her stepfather can rape and sodomize her? I bet not. Don't come at me like I don't know the realities of rape or don't understand what they went through. I was sexually abused until I was in my early teens. You don't fucking know me. Don't pretend that you do. You have no idea what I've been through in my life. I guarantee most on this very forum couldn't handle what I've seen in my lifetime.

I see you're playing 20 Questions again. Have I ever known a rape victims? Yes. I'm sure a lot of people know of at least one person who's been a rape victim. Your point? True, I don't fucking know you, and I don't wish to know you either. FUCK OFF.

So you worked in law enforcement. Wonderful. I sure hope you didn't talk to/treat any of the rape victims the same way you've acted in this thread. I'm not sure what the point was in posting your cop story. If anything, I'd think someone such as yourself (a victim of sexual abuse...that's horrible!) would show a little more compassion in this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

Tubby, you have problems it seems, lots of them.

I've actually gotten a PM from someone, wondering if he's a sociopath.

Interesting how someone who claims to make decisions with no emotion posted that little "You don't fucking know me...I used to be a cop" rant at me.

 

[RyanneMarie]

After reading this thread I am just happy I am Canadian. Ha.

 

[Anonymous]

I have to wonder if you would even stop to help if you saw a woman being assaulted. You attitude seems to be "you are not my problem."

He'd probably say something fucked up like "Just letting you know right now...if you wind up pregnant, I don't want MY money going towards YOUR abortion." :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

Have I ever known a rape victims?

Not being able to edit this was driving me crazy...lol. I meant to say 'victim'...no 's'.

 

[schlmoe]

I have to wonder if you would even stop to help if you saw a woman being assaulted. You attitude seems to be "you are not my problem."

He'd probably say something fucked up like "Just letting you know right now...if you wind up pregnant, I don't want MY money going towards YOUR abortion." :roll:

"I don't want MY money going towards YOUR abortion...OR your rape kit.

 

[schlmoe]

Wow, where to start.

Holy shit this thing has moved a lot since I was at work.

This captured my feelings exactly!

I don't know the "old Tubby", but the dude who has appropriated his name is all kinds of full of fuck. He seems to be this weird amalgamation of Col. Kurtz/Col. Kilgore/Paul Kersey. I assure you that the "KKK" initials are a coincidence...or maybe not. I have known several combat vets and many policemen. None of them hold views similar to "NT" (new Tubby). It should without saying that comments like "I enjoyed killing every one of them" and "My home is open and I'm waiting with a gun" are not the thoughts of a sane individual. There is no need review his further comments to draw a conclusion, but yeah, it got worse. I'm not sure what purpose was served by "NT" giving us his mini-bio, but if even 10% is true, it is clear to me that he has snapped under the burden of his past. Any one of those experiences could cause a person to suffer from PTSD, so I hope he gets the help he needs. Unless he has snapped in another direction and is bullshitting us all. I only offer that up because I can't believe one person is THAT fucked up. The dude should write a book. He'll make millions and be able to get his mansion, complete with red-headed midget and fuck doll.

Moving on, this little debate on whether the US is "republic" or "democracy", is pretty ridiculous. Its not going to miraculously change the form of government we have, which is a "State of the People". Yes, I meant the double meaning

The republic vs. democracy debate is also not going to change our upcoming choice. The name of the party is also irrelevant to me. It doesn't matter what they are "called". Republican, Democrat, Libertarian...hell, bring back the Whigs for all I care. What is going to drive my choice? Political rhetoric, party platforms, all the discourse...is meaningless without the element of humanism.

Is it humanistic to outsource jobs to reap a 10 cent per share increase, while knifing your country in the back? Is it humanistic to hide assets offshore to avoid taxes? Is it humanistic to allow millionaires to avoid paying their fair share? Is it humanistic to deny rights to your fellow citizens? Hey, you don't have to answer my questions, hell...make up your own. That is the key to our political process, to make our own choice.

Don't take my word for it, you can look throughout history and I bet you will find that all of the failed nations/states lacked humanism. One of the most famous (reputed) quotes from a failed state was "Let them eat cake". I am going to vote in hopes of stopping our slide towards that.

I am also keeping in mind that my vote is going to who will "represent" me. Another dual meaning. The President will represent me as the "face" of the US. But ideally, I want the President to represent me: my views, my hopes, my dreams for the future. To be honest, neither one can represent the majority of us. The fact is, both of them are "Ivy League" millionaires, I have nothing in common with that. While I don't hold inherited wealth against anybody, I do give Obama a few extra points, coming from a somewhat humble background. Even though I have zero in common with both of them, I'm going to cast my vote to the one who I feel will best "represent" me...in both meanings. It's probably pretty obvious which direction I am leaning towards.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Wow. Just wow!

I found it interesting in your post when you accused us of not knowing you and also implied that none of us have met/dealt with rape victims or have been raped. Like Luna said, no one can compare experiences because everyone reacts to things differently.

As I wrote earlier you cannot control other people or their actions, but you can control your reactions to things. I've seen a lot of stuff and gone through a lot of nasty things through my life, I want to help those who've been through similar, worse or even completely different situations.

As for do rape victims protect citizens? No, they are the citizens that were failed to be protected, so yeah, I think they do deserve to be cared for as they require.

I am neither pro war nor against war. War is sadly sometimes necessary, as are spending money on defence. I don't believe our recent wars were necessary, nor does anyone I know in the army or the marines. Actually a long term on off boyfriend/friend is in the marines told me that American soldiers get beer and playboys, we don't get that, maybe we were spending too much money on abortions and free operations.... I bet our soldiers really resent us for that....

Like I said before, whatever you've been through, do you really want to be this person? A rapist might be a rapist because he was abused earlier in life and has seen terrible things, do I believe he should be excused for his crimes? No I do not, and I don't believe that whatever you have been through you should say things like this. Words have a lot of power and can distress many. If you have such hateful opinions and thoughts, I advise you keep them to yourself.

 

[Mirra]

Like Luna said, no one can compare experiences because everyone reacts to things differently.

Oh yeah, I forgot I meant to throw in a comment about that. Even though it wasn't her intention, LadyLuna's story just made me want to give her a hug and tell her how amazing she is for making it through all that.

I agree though and I've said something similar somewhere else on these forums I think. I suspect we've all had extremely difficult times in our lives. We are all individuals with different experiences and reactions. That's where the comparison should stop though. To feel that our situation is any more terrible or difficult than someone else's seems like a very twisted form of arrogance. The world needs more empathy, not a bunch dick measuring contests.