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12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight show

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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Do movie theaters typically search their customers before letting them in or have metal detectors and whatnot in place? I've never been to a US theater but was under the impression they did/had neither. Assuming they didn't/don't, it's unfair to blame the theater.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Did he walk through the back? I thought those are emergency exits that would cause alarms to go off, or locked from the outside otherwise every one who wanted to save over 12 dollars would be using this way to sneak into movies. Did he walk through the front? Then how did he hide all of the guns and everything else he had with him? These are a few reasons why I put the blame on the movie theater for how this was able to happen.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

I just don't see how a movie theater can be held responsible for a mentalist shooting people at one of its showings.
If somebody with a gun jumps into a taxi and shoots the passengers, is the taxi driver then somehow responsible?
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

If the taxi doors failed to lock from the outside like every other car now a days so anyone could do that, I'd put some blame on the car manufacturing company. Or the taxi company for not keeping up and using cars from the 1950s.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SweepTheLeg said:
Did he walk through the back? I thought those are emergency exits that would cause alarms to go off, or locked from the outside otherwise every one who wanted to save over 12 dollars would be using this way to sneak into movies. Did he walk through the front? Then how did he hide all of the guns and everything else he had with him? These are a few reasons why I put the blame on the movie theater for how this was able to happen.

I read the first hand account of one of the girls who was injured and she's quoted as saying he came in through the emergency exit.

So I’m watching the movie and the emergency exit to our right, by the big screen, comes open. It doesn’t violently swing open, and it also doesn’t very quietly creep open. The door opened as anyone would normally, nonchalantly open a door. A man enters, wearing what appears to be a gas mask, and for some reason it looks just like the one worn by the villain in the movie (or at least, that is my messed up recollection of it). It also appears that he is wearing some sort of combat gear, with a helmet and everything.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SweepTheLeg said:
If the taxi doors failed to lock from the outside like every other car now a days so anyone could do that, I'd put some blame on the car manufacturing company. Or the taxi company for not keeping up and using cars from the 1950s.

How litigious do you wanna be though? I mean, why stop there?
The manufacturers of the gun/equipment used in the shootings? Let's go after them. The parents of this Holmes guy? Had they not raised a mentalist, this might not have happened. Let's go after them. The university the guy went to? Maybe they should have realised he wasn't quite sane before this happened and alerted the relevant people. Let's go after them too. Warner Bros/DC Comics et al.? This thing happened at a screening of one of their intellectual properties. What's to say if that film hadn't been released when it was, this would have happened? Let's go after them.
Point being: once you start blaming people other than the killer, you start on a slippery slope at the bottom of which, pretty much anyone can be found culpible if you twist logic in just the right way.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

So the fact that the killer came through the emergency exit that sounded no alarms allowing everyone to remain in their seats for him to open fire on doesn't leave the theater at fault what so ever on allowing this event to happen. I highly disagree with you there. Metal detectors and security wouldn't matter what so ever if dudes with guns can just stroll in from the back.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SweepTheLeg said:
So the fact that the killer came through the emergency exit that sounded no alarms allowing everyone to remain in their seats for him to open fire on doesn't leave the theater at fault what so ever on allowing this event to happen. I highly disagree with you there. Metal detectors and security wouldn't matter what so ever if dudes with guns can just stroll in from the back.

It's a cinema. It's not Fort Knox. Emergency exits aren't designed stop people from entering/exiting, they're designed to sound an alarm when opened so people know there's an emergency. This guy was, by all accounts, an intelligent person. It wouldn't take much to disable the alarm.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

I didn't know that being too smart was a way for another person or business to avoid ownership of actions that have taken place.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Even if an alarm did sound, how much would that have even helped?
People in the other rooms would have been able to exit, but the one he entered would have still been chaos. A crowd of people would have formed outside as well and he could have easily picked people off out there. It would have played out in a different manner but I feel as though it would have been just as horrible.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Wouldn't the movie theater have some sort of insurance policy for craptastic things that happen in their facility which would pay for injuries on the property?
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Those exit doors are meant as one way doors for egress only. They automatically shut, there is no handle on the outside, nor is there anyway to open them from the outside without a key. The coward bought a ticket, went into the theater like everyone else, then went to the emergency exit and propped the door open with something as he was leaving so it would not fully close and lock.

We used to do the same thing as kids. A bunch of us would get together and pitch in for one movie ticket and the person who paid would go to the exit door and either jam a bunch of paper in the female cavity of the lock so the cylinder couldn't fully engage or duct taped male cylinder so it could not engage enough to lock. Or we would just use a fake credit card and let the door close with the credit card in place between the cylinder and cavity. The door would look closed, but we could use a knife and pry it open from the outside since there was no handle on the outside. We never got busted.

The worst the cinema would lose is the price of a few tickets. It's not the cinema's responsibility to have Fort Knox type security. I mean really... who could have predicted anything like this would happen at a damn Batman movie? If the cinema was showing something widely controversial and had previous threats or something, then I could see the negligence of not adding more security... but a Batman movie? :snooty: The door worked as it was intended to work, just like every other movie theater door in the country has worked for decades.

It's the ambulance chasing, bottom feeding type lawyers that want to cash in on a horrible tragedy.

:twocents-02cents:
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

My mom's aunt just posted this to Facebook. I know this says school shooting, but she posted it because of this tragedy.

I'm seriously about to go off on her, but I'm trying my best not to. Arguing with idiots on Facebook is really not worth it.
 

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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

The coward apparently sent a school shrink a package detailing his plans days prior to the incident, but the package was just opened last Monday.

AURORA, Colo. – James Holmes, the accused gunman in last Friday's midnight movie massacre in Colorado, mailed a notebook "full of details about how he was going to kill people" to a University of Colorado psychiatrist before the attack, but the parcel sat unopened in a mailroom for as long as a week before its discovery Monday, a law enforcement source told FoxNews.com.

Police and FBI agents were called to the University of Colorado Anschutz medical campus in Aurora on Monday morning after the psychiatrist, who is also a professor at the school, reported receiving a package believed to be from the suspect. Although that package turned out to be from someone else and harmless, a search of the Campus Services' mailroom turned up another package sent to the psychiatrist with Holmes’ name in the return address, the source told FoxNews.com.

A second law enforcement source said authorities got a warrant from a county judge and took the package away Monday night. When it was opened, its chilling contents were revealed.

“There were drawings of what he was going to do in it--drawings and illustrations of the massacre."

- Law enorcement source

“Inside the package was a notebook full of details about how he was going to kill people,” the source told FoxNews.com. “There were drawings of what he was going to do in it -- drawings and illustrations of the massacre."
Among the images shown in the spiral-bound notebook’s pages were gun-wielding stick figures blowing away other stick figures.

The source said the package had been in the mailroom since July 12, though another source who confirmed the discovery to FoxNews.com could not say if the package arrived prior to Friday's massacre. It was not clear why it had not been delivered to the psychiatrist. The notebook is now in possession of the FBI, sources told FoxNews.com.

Both sources said the intended recipient of Holmes’ notebook was a professor who also treated patients at the psychiatry outpatient facility, located in Building 500, where the first suspicious package was delivered. It could not be verified that the psychiatrist had had previous contact with Holmes, who was a dropout from the school’s neuroscience doctoral program and had studied various mental health issues and ailments as part of his curriculum.
Holmes is accused of killing 12 and injuring 58 at a midnight showing of the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises” at the Century 16 Theater in Aurora.

University of Colorado spokeswoman Jacque Montgomery said she was not aware of the contents of the package or who had sent it.

Agent Dave Joly, of the FBI’s Denver Division, declined to comment on the matter, citing a gag order issued Monday by Arapahoe County District Judge William Sylvester. Arapahoe County District Attorney Carol Chambers' office and Aurora police also could not comment due to the gag order.

Police believe the July 20 attack was meticulously planned. Holmes allegedly tossed tear gas canisters into the crowded theater, and then fired his 12-gauge shotgun at the ceiling before turning it on the crowd. As panicked movie watchers raced for the exits, he switched to a .40 Glock pistol and a .223 Smith & Wesson M&P semi-automatic with a high-capacity drum clip, sources told Fox News. The gun jammed, likely preventing far more deaths.

After the gun jammed, Holmes allegedly walked out of the theater through the door he'd entered and was removing his body armor beside his car when he was confronted by the officers who took him down, the source said, adding that the gunman seemed surprised authorities arrived so quickly.

Before mounting the horrific attack, Holmes allegedly booby-trapped his apartment and left music blasting, possibly to create a diversion that would occupy police and rescue personnel several miles away from the theater, the source said.
Fox News has learned that the door was wired with a booby-trap and a backup system that would have triggered an explosive designed to "cut in half" the first person through the door. After that, explosions and flames would have likely consumed the entire building, presumably with the intention of trapping other residents as they slept and forcing a massive response of police and rescue personnel.

Holmes, who made his first court appearance Monday and looked disoriented and disheveled, could face the death penalty.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/25/ex ... z21emcM8bb
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Looks like he was not doing great in school.

New details are emerging Wednesday about the suspect in the movie theater shooting rampage in Aurora, Colo. According to ABC News, James Holmes purchased a high-powered rifle just hours after failing an exam at the University of Colorado.

Holmes took a key oral exam in early June that was part of his PhD program. According to ABC News, he failed, and then he bought a high-powered rifle that became part of his cache.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

lots of people dont well at school.....they dont go on murder rampages
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SaiyenChris said:
lots of people dont well at school.....they dont go on murder rampages

If this is the first big failure of his life, it could have made him snap. Or he could just be a incredibly stupid asshole.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

planning attack months ahead makes him snapping less likely
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Homicidal maniacs don't have to "snap." Everything about this loon sounds like a calm, amoral sociopath who planned this horrendous act for a very long time...and when he was ready, he executed the plan. Sane people don't plan mass murders of strangers--at least not by my definition.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

I'm not saying the theater needs fort knox type security, but any place of business shouldn't be excused of negligence based off the excuse "Who could have imagined this ever happening." The point of any business is to think of the worst that could happen so the customers who pay to attend said business don't have to. If this dude bought a ticket and walked right in with the guns then that is even worse in my opinion and is why the theater should share some of the accountability for it to happen. How did he conceal those size of guns with no one seeing them?

If any place of business doesn't face any responsibility for anything that happens there, then what's the point of having any security what so ever? Put up some cameras, or props that look like cameras to give the illusion that people are being watched. Anything bad that happens there well it's not their problem, because who could have imagined such a thing?
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SweepTheLeg said:
If this dude bought a ticket and walked right in with the guns then that is even worse in my opinion and is why the theater should share some of the accountability for it to happen. How did he conceal those size of guns with no one seeing them?

We covered that already. He came in earlier in the day, propped the emergency exit open, then came back with the guns. When he got the ticket, he didn't have the guns.

Emergency exits don't always sound an alarm.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

LadyLuna said:
SweepTheLeg said:
If this dude bought a ticket and walked right in with the guns then that is even worse in my opinion and is why the theater should share some of the accountability for it to happen. How did he conceal those size of guns with no one seeing them?

We covered that already. He came in earlier in the day, propped the emergency exit open, then came back with the guns. When he got the ticket, he didn't have the guns.

Emergency exits don't always sound an alarm.

The way I understand it is he bought a ticket with everyone else just before the midnight showing. Instead of finding a seat like everyone else, he went out the emergency exit, propped it open with something, then he geared up. His car was parked right next to the emergency exit with all the guns, gear, ammo, etc. After the coward was geared up, he re-entered the theater through the exit door he had previously propped open and commenced firing.

Here's a rough timeline.

 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

LadyLuna said:
SweepTheLeg said:
If this dude bought a ticket and walked right in with the guns then that is even worse in my opinion and is why the theater should share some of the accountability for it to happen. How did he conceal those size of guns with no one seeing them?

We covered that already. He came in earlier in the day, propped the emergency exit open, then came back with the guns. When he got the ticket, he didn't have the guns.

Emergency exits don't always sound an alarm.

Sweep, even if he had come through the front he would have just shot anyone - what would you expect the 19 year old ticket-taker to do? "Excuse me sir you can't take a rifle in there..."

As for alarms, that's just stupid - if an alarm went off every time someone used the emergency exit in a cinema the movie would get interrupted for everyone just cos someone wanted to leave/get some air/ let some kids in.

It's not a cinema's job to keep you safe from every possible occurrence. Next you'll be saying they're liable for not being tsunami-proof.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Bocefish said:
The way I understand it is he bought a ticket with everyone else just before the midnight showing. Instead of finding a seat like everyone else, he went out the emergency exit, propped it open with something, then he geared up. His car was parked right next to the emergency exit with all the guns, gear, ammo, etc. After the coward was geared up, he re-entered the theater through the exit door he had previously propped open and commenced firing.

My point was: he brought the guns in through the emergency exit. He did not take them past the person selling tickets. This still stands.
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Less than a week after the shooting that douche nugget Dane Cook was recorded making a joke about the event! :evil:


*Skip the annoying 15 second intro
 
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Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

mross2_ said:
Less than a week after the shooting that douche nugget Dane Cook was recorded making a joke about the event! :evil:


*Skip the annoying 15 second intro


That audience... sweet Harry fuck... the following is a true story and a depressing indictment of modern society...

Dane Cook... he of many a shit film, brands somebody else's film a 'piece of shit'.
Crowd applauds ("haha he said a film wasn't very good haha that was a good joke wasn't it? yes it was very witty haha").
Dane Cook... he of the anti-joke, then speculates that maybe one of the people who were in the theater where those shootings took place, thought to themselves, "shoot me", because the film they were watching was shit, you see? And then they got shot.
Crowd whoops and hollers ("hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Dane Cook said that film wasn't very good and and and that it was a piece of shit and that before those people got shot they were probably like 'shoot me' because the film wasn't very good and and and and then they really did get shot hahaaaaaaaaaaaa sweet schadenfraude how ironic and how clever of Dane to highlight the tenuous link between what somebody somewhere might possibly have flippantly thought to themselves and the real world manifestation of their abstract thought and the irony contained within that very specific and unlikely circumstance I get jokes hahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa")
:?
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

Just watched it today, and an usher checked the emergency exit during the movie and the credits.
 
Re: 12 killed and 38 injured at Dark Knight Rises midnight s

SweepTheLeg said:
I'm not saying the theater needs fort knox type security, but any place of business shouldn't be excused of negligence based off the excuse "Who could have imagined this ever happening." The point of any business is to think of the worst that could happen so the customers who pay to attend said business don't have to. If this dude bought a ticket and walked right in with the guns then that is even worse in my opinion and is why the theater should share some of the accountability for it to happen. How did he conceal those size of guns with no one seeing them?

If any place of business doesn't face any responsibility for anything that happens there, then what's the point of having any security what so ever? Put up some cameras, or props that look like cameras to give the illusion that people are being watched. Anything bad that happens there well it's not their problem, because who could have imagined such a thing?

When I can no longer afford to see a movie because of the added costs involved in accounting for every possible contingency up to and including Armageddon, I know who to blame. :lol: There is such a thing as criminal negligence and this does not even come close. Do you really want TSA type security at every business or event that is open to the public?
 
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