Why Are Black Females On MFC Afraid To Say That They Are BLK?

[justjoinedtopost]

...the glow of "rich ginger"...

Somebody just had to go and start throwin' the G word around.

 

[zippypinhead]

I'm just saying that in day to day situations, like going into a cam model's room, I rarely see anyone refer to a white model's color...it's almost invariably a member of a minority, and that the complaints we read on this thread have to do with the idea of being singled out, and I agree.

You made your position known from the outset, and I've got no beef with it. I've just been sucked into this typical ACF derailment, and the ridiculous accusations that have been thrown around. I just think it's absurd to treat Mikey_P* like some sort of objectifying monster who thinks women are food, when he has done no such thing, and "food" words are used to describe all kinds of complexions, all the time.

 

[xDollPartsx]

Somebody just had to go and start throwin' the G word around.

Ahem...my sister and I came to the conclusion years ago that ginger and firecrotch are not ideal because we got made fun of too much growning up using those terms(so much so that I have colored my hair dark for years..eeekk I'm a redhead!) The term we decided instead of firecrotch(for us being ladies and such) is vaginger. The end.

 

[Mikey_P]

I'm just saying that in day to day situations, like going into a cam model's room, I rarely see anyone refer to a white model's color...it's almost invariably a member of a minority, and that the complaints we read on this thread have to do with the idea of being singled out, and I agree.

This seems beyond obvious to me and directly relates to why I posted this topic in the first place. The reason why you do not see members going into white models rooms and mentioning their skin color is because most models, especially in the top 300 are white. You can easily locate as many attractive or whatever qualities you desire in a white model on MFC, not so true for other crayon colors, especially when they hide themselves. You are making a comparison that the data doesn't really allow.

LOL my last GF was white and I referred to her complexion as creamy vanilla. She never thought that I was going to go OJ with my mouth and eat her or that I was objectifying her, just appreciation!

We also need to reconcile that people are attracted to qualities we possess that we might not want to highlight. There's also a huge difference between fetishizing something and appreciating it.

 

[JickyJuly]

I think I get what you all are saying about just semantics, but I do think personal preference for words used toward oneself is relevant to the specific question of the OP. Obviously, as illustrated throughout this thread, we all take words differently. Where, in the real world, you can better get people's intent and some people are just not avoidable, there are things a camgirl who doesn't want to deal with certain fetishes can do to lessen the instance that she's called things that will get under her skin or turn her off. Words matter because most of the people we deal with are just going to be words on a screen. It takes a lot of guts to fall into a niche and turn down that money because it's not enjoyable for you. That should be seen as a business move and not being afraid to own the color of your skin. Maybe it looks like these girls are losing money in the short term, but long term, side stepping race play fetishists probably saves their sanity if they're not into it. Saving your sanity on cam is important. It can mean you stay 5 hours in a shift instead of 3 or last 6 years instead of 2.

I don't know if this will get me in trouble for fetish shaming, but when you've cammed long enough, you notice that different fetishes attract similar folks who use similar words and bring similar joys or problems. It becomes easy to figure out which fetish folks you enjoy and don't. I did a lot of domme/humiliation stuff but refused race play because it's not something I am personally comfortable with and that group, in my experience, is extremely bad at taking no. I can totally see why a girl would try to avoid them as much as possible even at the cost of missing out on people who just like the way she looks. Probably a lot of people don't realize how common of a fetish it is. Even as a middle to bottom of page 1 girl on SM, I probably turned down 5 dudes an hour for it. And even there, where things are much more fetish driven than MFC, if they argued with me before I bothered to ban them, it could clear out a room. On MFC, clearing out your room is a disaster.

 

[ellabellaxoxo]

Random observation. Most black models list their ethnicity as "various" and not as black. The fastest way to find black models on MFC has been doing a profile site search on Google with "ethnicity: various" as one of the search conditions. Why do many black models do this, not all but a large chunk.

I'm a black cam model and I've listed my ethnicity as black. I've also included various tags that represent my ethnicity. There are definitely people out there searching for black models and I'm not going to miss out on meeting them by being uncomfortable with stating my ethnicity.

 

[TacoBelle]

I feel like too many people are getting hung up on terminology. Yes, certain words can be negative if used in a derogative sense (like @JickyJuly said about the use of 'females'). However, I don't think anyone has used a food term in this thread in a negative way. So many people are just blowing one simple word out of proportion. The context that the 'food terminology' was used in:

I have also noticed the same about Central/South America and the many beautiful cocoa women from that area of the world.

NOTHING was negative about his post! In fact, he was speaking highly of the women! So many of my black friends actually use similar terms with pride. Maybe it's a location thing, but here in Kentucky, black women frequently wear shirts/purses that say things like, "You can't handle this dark chocolate" or "Brown Sugar" "Golden Honey" etc etc. It's the same as their pride for having 'natural' hair (having an afro/dreadlocks instead of using relaxers). It's a way to embrace their history/culture while also making it known that they're proud of who they are.

I'm just saying that in day to day situations, like going into a cam model's room, I rarely see anyone refer to a white model's color...it's almost invariably a member of a minority, and that the complaints we read on this thread have to do with the idea of being singled out, and I agree.

I frequently get 'labeled' due to my pale skin, dark hair, and light-colored eyes. The terms "milky," "porcelain," and "peaches and cream" are used frequently. Does it bother me? No more than when guys try to describe other aspects of my personality/being as though that's all there is to me. A good example would be when they call me "emo," "goth," or "hippie." Or when they say, "Oh, another non-nude." No, I'm not 'a non-nude.' I'm a woman who happens to be a non-nude model. But I'm not 'a non-nude.'

You see? It's all in the context of how the words are used as to whether they are disrespectful or not. And some cultures find certain words offensive while others embrace the words to describe themselves. I just don't see why everyone seems to have jumped all over Mikey_P when he wasn't even trying to be disrespectful. I'm sorry that I seem to be going against the grain, and I'll probably ruffle some feathers with this post, but I hate seeing the mob mentality over something so trivial when there are other posts that are so much worse on here. I don't know how many of you talk about ACF with your regulars/other members of camsites, but I do frequently. I pimp the shit out of this place. Cause it's been a safe-haven and a sense of community for me the last 4 years. However, so many of my regulars stopped visiting/reading/posting here because they are worried that they're gonna be attacked for saying anything. They worry that so many of us models are men-haters who latch onto the smallest word choice and blow everything out of proportion, starting fights when the poster has not said anything with nefarious intent. I hate that!!!! ACF should be known as the awesome place that it is! Where everyone is welcome to join, participate in jovial commentary, give insight, and ask questions. ACF is such an amazing place filled with amazing people, and I'm so lucky to have 'met' all of you. I just really want people to feel welcome to post here without being attacked (unless it's actually meant in a negative way).

 

[Nordling]

Yes, I think the thread kind of got derailed, and Mikey's OP turned into a separate discussion about treating people as objects. My only disagreement with Mikey was the idea that most or only black women leave off their ethnicity, as I demonstrated early in the thread. After that, the thread took its own turn sideways.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Most women don't enjoy being called "females". It feels dehumanizing unless you're like an awkward scientist or something. I've never called a group of men males. I for sure wouldn't use it to describe a group of men that I wanted to interact with in a positive way. I don't even call my pets male and female. I don't think it softens the question at all. I think it helps illustrate the answer to the question.

In my experience, at least where I am from, if someone is using "female" in place of woman, they are about to say something sexual or something negative (like using it in place of bitch to pretend that they aren't saying bitches). If it's used in a sexual way, to me, it makes women sound interchangeable. When women use it as slang it is similar to when a girl is disagreeing with you and using "honey" or "sweetie". She doesn't mean anything sweet. I'm not sure what other peoples' experiences are, but I've been called "female" by women in the midst of fighting probably as many times as I've had a man use the term at me.

When referring to people, female should really only be used as an adjective imo. "Female voters" "Female pilots" etc. Like, if I hear someone say "I enjoy the female body." it sounds fine to me. If they say "I enjoy females." it sounds juvenile at best.

I guess to some it might be just semantics, but if I hear someone using female as a noun for a human, I make a mental note that s/he probably has a little growth to do in the respecting others department. Anyway, I only elaborated because I was asked about my original comment which stands.

I've actually noticed that too, JickyJuly. I've seen it in Facebook posts, YouTube comments, and IRL. I saw a meme on Facebook that got some guy riled up, and he sounded pretty bitter towards women. I think he said something like "Why do females always do this shit?," and then a woman responded by telling him "Well, for starters, maybe you should stop calling us 'females'?" Lol.

Also, when I hear another woman use the term 'female', she's often complaining about them. Something along the lines of "I don't trust any of these females around my man" or something. I think the last time I used the term 'male' or 'female', I was referring to the adorable RoboDwarf Hamsters from PetSmart.

 

[yummybrownfox]

So many of my black friends actually use similar terms with pride. Maybe it's a location thing, but here in Kentucky, black women frequently wear shirts/purses that say things like, "You can't handle this dark chocolate" or "Brown Sugar" "Golden Honey" etc etc. It's the same as their pride for having 'natural' hair (having an afro/dreadlocks instead of using relaxers). It's a way to embrace their history/culture while also making it known that they're proud of who they are.

My mom's nickname is 'Brown Sugar.' I remember she'd get home from work, and Dad would be like "There's my Brown Sugar!" and give her a kiss. Lol.

 

[AmberCutie]

I feel like too many people are getting hung up on terminology....

I'm sorry that I seem to be going against the grain, and I'll probably ruffle some feathers with this post, but I hate seeing the mob mentality over something so trivial when there are other posts that are so much worse on here. I don't know how many of you talk about ACF with your regulars/other members of camsites, but I do frequently. I pimp the shit out of this place. Cause it's been a safe-haven and a sense of community for me the last 4 years. However, so many of my regulars stopped visiting/reading/posting here because they are worried that they're gonna be attacked for saying anything. They worry that so many of us models are men-haters who latch onto the smallest word choice and blow everything out of proportion, starting fights when the poster has not said anything with nefarious intent. I hate that!!!! ACF should be known as the awesome place that it is! Where everyone is welcome to join, participate in jovial commentary, give insight, and ask questions. ACF is such an amazing place filled with amazing people, and I'm so lucky to have 'met' all of you. I just really want people to feel welcome to post here without being attacked (unless it's actually meant in a negative way).

Great post, Iris. Forgive me(us) for the tangent we've driven this thread to...

The last paragraph (bolded) is something that is on my mind frequently. And I've tried so hard to find a balance between supporting my fellow cam girls the best I can and allowing people (members, and men in particular) to feel free to speak openly about their likes, dislikes and sometimes less-popular opinions. It's a difficult task.

I've had to speak out against girls that I generally adore, and even scared* off some of the girls unfortunately, when they start using language or gang-up tactics in such a way that diminishes the welcoming vibe of the forum. Even if it's contained within the walls of the models only section I try to stop harmful ideals from flourishing, because I don't intend ACF to be a place for hate to fester, no matter what or whom the subject of hate is. It's hilarious that there are people out there who talk so much shit about me that have no idea how diplomatic I can actually be regarding this sort of thing. They think I host a breeding ground for anti-men, feminazi, outlandish SJWs but in actuality I do my best to keep things as balanced as possible. I know there are still some gang-up moments that occur out here in the public areas, and I'll admit I personally also have my days where I act out of spite and irritation toward some members, but I really am trying to keep that to a minimum overall.

So, while there is no hate being spewed in this thread, there was a little bit of derailment to try and scold someone for the use of words/descriptors. I think it's fine to say to someone "I don't like that word, personally" but a little more intrusive to say "never use that word, we are all offended by it." I think some of the posts leaned more toward the 2nd example, and that's why I jumped in with my 2 cents about it.

*I know they aren't necessarily "scared off" please don't take that literally. It's more like they get upset at me for pointing out a possible error in their ways and not wanting to be around a site that doesn't 100% support them and their feelings. The fact that I don't force ACF to be a literal "safe space" upsets some.

 

[MFCGod]

They think I host a breeding ground for anti-men, feminazi, outlandish SJWs

I haven't found the forum to be like that

I've expressed opinions that I'm sure not everyone agrees with, but people have discussed them with me in an intellectual way rather than an argument as such.

I think people get confused sometimes that when they express their opinions obnoxiously, people aren't angry necessarily at their point, but them acting obnoxiously

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

I actually thought this thread was really interesting because I personally like hearing how black women feel about these words and I don't at all agree with Jicky's view on the term "female" but it was interesting to hear why she feels that way about the word. It did get off track fast though. I honestly thought people were all talking toward one another and not at the OP (which is probably a problem in itself) but it never would have occurred to me that this could seem attacking so I'll keep this in mind. My first post may have been snotty in saying "it's not that complicated" but that was entirely directed at the pages long debate, not the OP's question.

Note to self: pay attention to the OP when replying in a thread Thanks for the post @I_Am_Iris

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

I haven't found the forum to be like that

I've expressed opinions that I'm sure not everyone agrees with, but people have discussed them with me in an intellectual way rather than an argument as such.

I think people get confused sometimes that when they express their opinions obnoxiously, people aren't angry necessarily at their point, but them acting obnoxiously

I think this forum can get very aggressive and feminist fueled very fast but you bring up a good point. People may just be expressing themselves in a more harsh or "obnoxious" tone than I care for because I am a timid little toad. So I take that as anger when maybe it often isn't. Very good point.

 

[Mikey_P]

Thank you both defenders and finger pointers, I enjoy you all!

Amazingly, maybe not amazingly, I feel like this was a very productive conversation. The derail is what made it good. It was nice to see all the different perspectives. I felt less ganged up in this thread than I did in the "Annoying Things That Models Do" thread sooo progress!

I_AM_Iris, I also recommend this forum to others but to models not members. When I see a model on life tilt rage mode, I'm always like..... Do you ACF?

 

[LioraVox]

Is it too late to be self-indulgent and say "hey, sup..fellow human looking for WOC. I exist. Come check me out sometime"?

If not then... . If it is then..Ima just go.. Over here somewhere...

 

[CherryChu]

Personally I wouldn't say you can never use words like 'cocoa' (if I did say that before I apologise - I'm functioning on not a whole lot of sleep recently) but it's one to be aware of as it can offend a lot of people. It's not that we genuinely think you want to sprinkle us on cakes or hot milk or whatever, it just kind of has that feel to it, like being a consumable thing for you to enjoy rather than a person. Words only gain meaning through usage and while you obviously can't please everyone, it's nice to be aware of things that have caused harm to other people in the past, even if you weren't the one who did it. Why is the N word offensive? Some people these days would say it without meaning any harm, and it used to be the regular word for 'black person.' It's offensive because of its past usage and association, the fact that it was the word for black person at a time when black people were so outcast, so it's generally accepted these days that you should avoid saying it in order to avoid offending someone. Everything is about context so while your intentions do matter, the delivery and reception does as well. I guess it's a little like stepping on someone's foot and not realising... you probably didn't do it on purpose but it still hurts the other person. Or if you poked them and you thought you were being gentle, and maybe you were, but it turns out the place you poked was actually a big sore bruise or wound. You didn't do the original harm but you would probably still try to avoid poking them in that place again. Am I getting carried away with my metaphors? Probably...

Again just me personally - but the reason I get hung up on terminology is that is does have a big impact on how I feel about a particular interaction. So for me, the words that people use to describe and address me are directly linked to how much of a big deal I want to make of things such as my ethnicity. If a member in my room says 'your skin tone is beautiful/I love golden brown skin' or something like that, it feels like a compliment. If someone says 'I love caramel girls' I feel weird about it. I'm aware that the people who say these things may not mean them offensively, so I usually try to respond with a polite request to not say the thing around me, and if they ask why and they really want to know then I direct them to a post I've made/seen elsewhere or something - I don't wanna be getting into this kind of explanation in my MFC room lol. But what I can say is that I usually find that people use the kinds of terminology that I personally dislike (and have seen a lot of others feel the same, not necessarily on ACF/MFC but just in general) when they've found me via a search for a particular ethnicity, and that's why it's linked and is worth explaining if you do want to know about why people (black women in this case) do certain things.

 

[lovergirl]

Lol.
So weird.

Guys are never like, I like girls with skin like milkkkkkkkkk.
White like mayonnaise.
The color of cooked rice.

Never happens.
It's degrading, dehumanizing, racist, and overall disgusting behavior.

You go girl. You're not wrong.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/if-...escribed-like-people-of-color-in-l#.meMXYeRLk

 

[MFCGod]

Guys are never like, I like girls with skin like milkkkkkkkkk.
White like mayonnaise.
The color of cooked rice.

I like pale skin, I like the contrast between white and pink

I usually wouldn't mention it without a prompt, but say someone says something like "Ohh I wish I could tan more" I would say "I find pale skin sexy personally" or some such equivalent

"milky skin" on its own I wouldn't consider at insult, depends on the context it's used

However, if I knew calling someone pale or milky offended them of course I would respect them enough not to do it, even if I didn't personally find it to be insulting.

 

[AmberCutie]

Lol.
So weird.

Guys are never like, I like girls with skin like milkkkkkkkkk.
White like mayonnaise.
The color of cooked rice.

Never happens.
It's degrading, dehumanizing, racist, and overall disgusting behavior.

You go girl. You're not wrong.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/if-...escribed-like-people-of-color-in-l#.meMXYeRLk

Milk, mayonnaise and rice aren't quite on the same tasty and tantalizing level as chocolate, cream, peaches, cocoa, caramel...

And people with light skin can very well be described with creamy, peachy, etc. Or "pasty" as a sort of insult, lol. As I said, if someone personally tells you to not call them something, totally understandable. But I don't think it's reasonable to state it's dehumanizing, racist, degrading and disgusting behavior in general. It's personal preference.

Edit: oh jeez I just read the link. /mega-eyeroll. And it's buzzfeed for pete's sake.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Lol.
So weird.

Guys are never like, I like girls with skin like milkkkkkkkkk.
White like mayonnaise.
The color of cooked rice.

Never happens.
It's degrading, dehumanizing, racist, and overall disgusting behavior.

You go girl. You're not wrong.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/if-...escribed-like-people-of-color-in-l#.meMXYeRLk

I dunno, I feel like "creamy white skin" is fairly common.

 

[VeronicaChaos]

I dunno, I feel like "creamy white skin" is fairly common.

yeah, I frequently get guys saying they love my milky white skin. Which is hilarious because I'm actually a bit tan IRL, it's just the red hair+lighting+makeup. But yeah, that's a thing. Never cared for it, personally, but as a rule I'm put off buy comparisons to being an edible. "I want to eat you" "you look delicious" etc. Unless I'm like, in a roleplay where that's the point, like a vore thing, and it actually means eating. That's totally different though.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Milk, mayonnaise and rice aren't quite on the same tasty and tantalizing level as chocolate, cream, peaches, cocoa, caramel...

Mayonnaise in particular. A little revolting actually. For these comparisons to work, I think they need to be something you can gobble up by itself (like roast beef, for instance).

 

[Mikey_P]

The idea of food comparisons and edible women is interesting because I'm quite sure that the sight of a beautiful woman within a sexual context, eating tasty fatty food, and mangasms all flood the brain with dopamine so comparisons to food and being edible makes plenty of sense. I think that the only universal rule is that we should be sensitive to the likes/dislikes/wishes of those who we are attributing those things to. This also goes to those on the receiving end because they shouldn't view their likes and dislikes as universal or serve up womankind as some sort of monolith.

Someone above said that white models never hear creamy white/milk references wrong wrong wrong! One of my fav models got a dozen of those compliments after complaining about her pale skin. All the guys were like you are crazy, I love your creamy white skin, it is so milk like, perfect and porcelain.

I think that healthy skin is a major source of beauty and I like all the lady colors. I was just thinking about another reason why the edible type comments might be used and it goes back to pleasure, oral sensation and the second thing we do the most with our mouth behind talking, eating, and how to see someone beautiful might trigger the desire to have your mouth on them, thus figuratively eating them but not necessarily turning them into a consumable good.

There are explanations for everything!

 

[Nordling]

The idea of food comparisons and edible women is interesting because I'm quite sure that the sight of a beautiful woman within a sexual context, eating tasty fatty food, and mangasms all flood the brain with dopamine so comparisons to food and being edible makes plenty of sense. I think that the only universal rule is that we should be sensitive to the likes/dislikes/wishes of those who we are attributing those things to. This also goes to those on the receiving end because they shouldn't view their likes and dislikes as universal or serve up womankind as some sort of monolith.

Someone above said that white models never hear creamy white/milk references wrong wrong wrong! One of my fav models got a dozen of those compliments after complaining about her pale skin. All the guys were like you are crazy, I love your creamy white skin, it is so milk like, perfect and porcelain.

I think that healthy skin is a major source of beauty and I like all the lady colors. I was just thinking about another reason why the edible type comments might be used and it goes back to pleasure, oral sensation and the second thing we do the most with our mouth behind talking, eating, and how to see someone beautiful might trigger the desire to have your mouth on them, thus figuratively eating them but not necessarily turning them into a consumable good.

There are explanations for everything!

I agree, fair skinned women do get "complements" like that, but I think the point is, it's a lot less common. Also, I'm not sure it's the food thing that annoys people so much as it is simply where people get too personal too soon. Using more general terms might be better when you first meet someone... "beautiful," "gorgeous," "very attractive," whatever seems appropriate. Being too specific can be an annoyance to SOME people simply because it makes them self-conscious. Once you get to know someone, you may better be able to understand what sore of complements they prefer. I knew a model who had an abundance of stretch marks...every day someone just had to mention them...attempting to "make her feel better"...but maybe she didn't feel bad about them in the first place? "Be proud of those--they are badges of honor." STFU! lol

 

[MFCGod]

I agree, fair skinned women do get "complements" like that, but I think the point is, it's a lot less common.l

I may be wrong but Id guess the majority of men on MFC are white

If the majority were another race I'm sure white girls would get more comments on their ethnicity and complexion.

 

[Nordling]

You may be right, but that's not really the point. The point is, let's be a bit more sensitive about specific comments to people, no matter what their race, complexion, whatever.

 

[MFCGod]

You may be right, but that's not really the point. The point is, let's be a bit more sensitive about specific comments to people, no matter what their race, complexion, whatever.

I'm a bit mixed

People should be wary of offending others

People shouldn't be so easily offended by words

 

[Nordling]

Depends on the words and how they're used. My take on this thread is that most models aren't so much offended as they are mildly annoyed. Why be annoying when it's so easy not to be?

Common sense.

 

[AmberCutie]

Why be annoying when it's so easy not to be?

Because it's not. There are people all over the spectrum on what annoys/offends them. You'll never be able to please or avoid annoying everyone, so just be yourself without walking on eggshells. If someone tells you something you said to them personally upset them, let them know you meant no harm, apologize and move on. If they don't accept your apology (assuming you were polite), drop 'em like they're hot. Ain't nobody got time fo that.