Why Are Black Females On MFC Afraid To Say That They Are BLK?

[Nordling]

That is ridiculous. The OP of this thread, whether we have agreed with his wording or not, is literally trying to find more black women because their looks appeal to him over other races/cultures. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. Women of different races, nationalities, cultures look different. We're allowed to appreciate that respectfully.

Agree, but I took Natalie's comment to mean "difference of importance or substance." All people are different from every other person, even "identical twins," but "race" is a 19th century construct that scientists for the most part believe doesn't even exist.

 

[Minnie]

Plus not all models actually write their own profile information. When I started out I didn't the studio I was in wrote up my bio information.

Plus being in sex work none of my stats are accurate it's the beauty of it.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

On a side note, I have run across a few Eastern Europeans claiming to be "Native American". Maybe they don't understand what that means, idk. But I really wish they wouldn't do that.

Yah know, I was in a sociology class a few years ago and our professor was talking about personal identity stuff. It was a human sexuality class so obviously the main topic is peoples sexualities. But for some reason race identification got brought up and this white girl with red hair and a bunch of freckles is like, "Yeah, I'm 1/10th whatever tribe so I identify as Native American."

This was like 2 years ago but I think about that girl all the time. She's filling out forms and whatnot checking "Native American." I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that she thinks that's okay.

And how would someone not know what Native American means? If they're from Eastern Europe, they weren't born anywhere near the Americas? That's so weird and I do not understand it.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

And how would someone not know what Native American means? If they're from Eastern Europe, they weren't born anywhere near the Americas? That's so weird and I do not understand it.

No idea. Seen it 3, maybe 4 times now though.

 

[Mikey_P]

I think that some ppl purposely spice up that section of their profile to make themselves seem a bit more exotic.

 

[yummybrownfox]

Lol. I'm wondering how often these models have to give a fake smile (or a forced giggle) when they get some Casanova in their room asking "Do you have any White in you? Would you like some?"

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

I think that some ppl purposely spice up that section of their profile to make themselves seem a bit more exotic.

Yeah, but that's super offensive? A European women saying she's Native American on her MFC profile to come off as more interesting is just....wrong.

Lie about other shit on cam profiles but race? Come on. Putting "various" avoid race fetishists is completely different, but a white woman putting Native American is fucked up. That's one bold-faced lie.

 

[zippypinhead]

Yah know, I was in a sociology class a few years ago and our professor was talking about personal identity stuff. It was a human sexuality class so obviously the main topic is peoples sexualities. But for some reason race identification got brought up and this white girl with red hair and a bunch of freckles is like, "Yeah, I'm 1/10th whatever tribe so I identify as Native American."

This was like 2 years ago but I think about that girl all the time. She's filling out forms and whatnot checking "Native American." I cannot wrap my mind around the fact that she thinks that's okay.

My nephew is 1/8 Native American, and has red hair and freckles. He also happens to live on a reservation, and is very much a part of his tribe, as is the rest of his family. I would be very disappointed to learn that others are judging him for having pride in his ethnicity, simply because he doesn't fit some arbitrary outward standards of blood purity or racial characteristics.

 

[CherryChu]

*cracks knuckles*

Explanation incoming :3

 

[CherryChu]

Some of this has been said already but here's my take.

1) How do you define 'black'? If you're including people like me - who are part black, and thus really are of 'various' ethnicities - then there's your answer right there. Lots of people don't like the one drop rule (particularly outside of the US, as far as I'm aware) so if that's what you're going by then that's it.

2a) Race fetishes. I'm getting this vibe off you if I'm honest... lots of ""cocoa women"" will tell you they actually don't really like being compared to foodstuffs. Just like AerynShade said. The very least you can do is say they have a skin tone like cocoa. that's just super weird saying they are a particular food.

Race fetishes come in all different forms... being assumed to be "exotic" or a stereotype, weird race-based roleplaying... all sorts. A few examples I've either seen or experienced:

- a guy once came into my room and said 'you looked Asian in your profile pic, but now you look black.' Only thing he said. It instantly gave the impression that he was looking for someone who would act a certain way to fuel an Asian fetish, and then when he saw I wasn't totally Asian he thought I'd be too loud and brash like the black stereotype. I don't know. But it wasn't nice or relevant. Also, you can be black and Asian...
- I think the first member I ever banned was someone who came to my room during a cumshow and said 'mmmm I love me some teen n****r pussy.' Even if we ignore the obvious choice of words that's still really gross.
- I was once talking to a member who started off nice, then asked what my heritage was, which I don't mind. Next question was 'how many languages do you speak? And don't say just English!!' and I just left the conversation. Again, it's making the assumption that I fit this stereotype of the 'exotic' mixed girl and leaves no room for me to be an actual individual. I think in this case he may not have meant it to be offensive, but it is, and at that time I didn't have the energy to explain that.
- assuming I can/want to twerk right up in the cam because apparently that's what all the hip hop video girls do
- etc etc etc... this without going into the fetishes for other races than black.

2b) Outright racists. I have heard from white models that they've occasionally had messages from guys saying how nice it is to 'find a hot WHITE girl!!' and I've heard the same thing from a white-passing (but actually mixed race) model. I've heard from other non-white models about guys coming into their rooms just to throw slurs at them. There are always going to be the assholes who just want to piss someone off. I don't know why you'd have to want to spend your time looking for people to insult for whatever reason... but people do, and for them it's a lot easier if all they need to do is type in a search.

3) The "I'm just not into black girls" crowd. Which is actually most of our target audience (ie Western straight guys). We're all conditioned to see black people as less attractive - that's why 'ebony' is now considered a fetish. Because it's 'taboo.' It shouldn't be, and a lot of people do know this, but it's difficult to unlearn old habits. I never used to be attracted to black/part-black people until I started to actually look into why I thought like that and tried to actively challenge it (which is also why I believe it's very rare for someone to genuinely not be attracted to x race, when all social conditioning is removed). There are probably a lot of members who remove the black checkbox from their list of models showing. Personally I've experimented with this a little... I'm a bit of a lot of things so I could technically say a lot of those checkboxes. I wouldn't say I'm white because [the one drop rule/the racists in 2b]; but I have had my ethnicity set as 'various,' 'black,' 'Asian,' and 'not specified.' I got the most traffic when I had it set to Asian - that's another kind of fetish that's also pretty gross but plays out differently to the black fetish. I didn't get as much when I had it set to black, and what I did get was mostly the black fetish types who wanted a stereotype. I keep it at 'various' now because that's the true one anyway, but that's why I don't blame the other models for changing it. I have seen a lot of black models listing themselves as Asian and I feel like it's sad but this is exactly why.

 

[Mikey_P]

Some of this has been said already but here's my take.

1) How do you define 'black'? If you're including people like me - who are part black, and thus really are of 'various' ethnicities - then there's your answer right there. Lots of people don't like the one drop rule (particularly outside of the US, as far as I'm aware) so if that's what you're going by then that's it.

2a) Race fetishes. I'm getting this vibe off you if I'm honest... lots of ""cocoa women"" will tell you they actually don't really like being compared to foodstuffs. Just like AerynShade said. The very least you can do is say they have a skin tone like cocoa. that's just super weird saying they are a particular food.

Race fetishes come in all different forms... being assumed to be "exotic" or a stereotype, weird race-based roleplaying... all sorts. A few examples I've either seen or experienced:

- a guy once came into my room and said 'you looked Asian in your profile pic, but now you look black.' Only thing he said. It instantly gave the impression that he was looking for someone who would act a certain way to fuel an Asian fetish, and then when he saw I wasn't totally Asian he thought I'd be too loud and brash like the black stereotype. I don't know. But it wasn't nice or relevant. Also, you can be black and Asian...
- I think the first member I ever banned was someone who came to my room during a cumshow and said 'mmmm I love me some teen n****r pussy.' Even if we ignore the obvious choice of words that's still really gross.
- I was once talking to a member who started off nice, then asked what my heritage was, which I don't mind. Next question was 'how many languages do you speak? And don't say just English!!' and I just left the conversation. Again, it's making the assumption that I fit this stereotype of the 'exotic' mixed girl and leaves no room for me to be an actual individual. I think in this case he may not have meant it to be offensive, but it is, and at that time I didn't have the energy to explain that.
- assuming I can/want to twerk right up in the cam because apparently that's what all the hip hop video girls do
- etc etc etc... this without going into the fetishes for other races than black.

2b) Outright racists. I have heard from white models that they've occasionally had messages from guys saying how nice it is to 'find a hot WHITE girl!!' and I've heard the same thing from a white-passing (but actually mixed race) model. I've heard from other non-white models about guys coming into their rooms just to throw slurs at them. There are always going to be the assholes who just want to piss someone off. I don't know why you'd have to want to spend your time looking for people to insult for whatever reason... but people do, and for them it's a lot easier if all they need to do is type in a search.

3) The "I'm just not into black girls" crowd. Which is actually most of our target audience (ie Western straight guys). We're all conditioned to see black people as less attractive - that's why 'ebony' is now considered a fetish. Because it's 'taboo.' It shouldn't be, and a lot of people do know this, but it's difficult to unlearn old habits. I never used to be attracted to black/part-black people until I started to actually look into why I thought like that and tried to actively challenge it (which is also why I believe it's very rare for someone to genuinely not be attracted to x race, when all social conditioning is removed). There are probably a lot of members who remove the black checkbox from their list of models showing. Personally I've experimented with this a little... I'm a bit of a lot of things so I could technically say a lot of those checkboxes. I wouldn't say I'm white because [the one drop rule/the racists in 2b]; but I have had my ethnicity set as 'various,' 'black,' 'Asian,' and 'not specified.' I got the most traffic when I had it set to Asian - that's another kind of fetish that's also pretty gross but plays out differently to the black fetish. I didn't get as much when I had it set to black, and what I did get was mostly the black fetish types who wanted a stereotype. I keep it at 'various' now because that's the true one anyway, but that's why I don't blame the other models for changing it. I have seen a lot of black models listing themselves as Asian and I feel like it's sad but this is exactly why.

I will only add that I do not like the 1 drop rule either and my OP is not about women who are biracial. The whole food thing seems to be a projection and it isn't something I'm going to really GAF about. Also, obfuscating ethnicity on a profile just saves models from the ethnic niche players and rude members who use the search function to find models and not the ones who will easily find ethnicity X via the main page, scrolling and MFC's suggested model function. All reasons given seem valid but I don't think that the various label saves models from dealing with weirdos.

 

[Mikey_P]

One thing that I want to add that is a bit of a corollary to the PM example shared two posts above, the one that addresses the issues of white models receiving PMs that say, "hey finally a hot white girl." is that I have a similar response when I come across a hot black model on MFC. When I say that it isn't a version of the whole 'pretty for a black girl' BS. It is more about me knowing that there are a lot of pretty black women in the world yet I rarely see really attractive black models on MFC. It seems Streammate has all the best looking black models.

In defense of the seemingly racist white guy comment, "hey finally a hot white girl," they might actually have the same response that I have to MFC--- a lot of the most attractive Caucasian women on MFC are from central and eastern Europe and it is a bit disappointing when your feed is full of all these attractive women with poor English skills. When you finally find a model who is not only attractive but who can communicate with you on a high level, then "hey finally a hot white girl" might just simply mean, finally a white girl who speaks English and who is hot. I solved this issue by blocking all models from non-English speaking countries.


Just my perspective and little bit of devil's advocate.

 

[Mikey_P]

"I'm getting this vibe off you if I'm honest... The very least you can do is say they have a skin tone like cocoa. that's just super weird saying they are a particular food."

I think this is very much semantics and I am not a fetish player, I definitely have not fetishized various tones of my own ethnicity. It is just an example and no pun intended, just a colorful use of language.

 

[MFCGod]

Weird that you felt the need to type out "females" given that MFC only has women on camera.

If he put "why do blacks on MFC" it sounds more harsh (at least to me)

Adding females softens it

Why did you find it weird out of interest?

 

[JickyJuly]

Why did you find it weird out of interest?

Most women don't enjoy being called "females". It feels dehumanizing unless you're like an awkward scientist or something. I've never called a group of men males. I for sure wouldn't use it to describe a group of men that I wanted to interact with in a positive way. I don't even call my pets male and female. I don't think it softens the question at all. I think it helps illustrate the answer to the question.

Still, I think Mikey asked a relevant question and the answers that women who are more qualified than I have given have been enlightening.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

I'm too fat for some people's tastes but I'm not going to tag myself bbw because then guys come in and tell me I'm not fat enough. I also don't appreciate comments on my weight or consider a lot of the things big girl lovers say as compliments to be a compliment. So I don't mention my weight anywhere on my profile and what do you know, not nearly as many people come in and comment on it. We don't list or tag ourselves with things that we know are going to bring these kinds of comments, or comments that we just don't cater to. It's not complicated at all, really.

And incoming off topic rant.

I'm 1/4 Mexican. My Grandpa who moved here from Mexico was the most important person in my life. From a young age I was always very fascinated with our heritage and as an adult I love exploring our ancestry as far as I can. I celebrate certain holidays and make certain foods that people may not expect because of the insanely pale color of my skin. I'm fascinated by a culture that I wasn't even raised with but I knew was part of me, part of my blood and always loved for my Grandpa to teach me about it. It was where the most amazing man in the world came from and I really was the only one of my siblings to actively embrace it and take his traditions and incorporate them into my own life. My daughter is 1/8 Mexican, obviously. If you think I'm not going to teach her everything my Grandpa taught me and celebrate holidays that no one else in her generation likely will then you're insane. Maybe she will do the same with her own children, maybe not, but it's pretty ridiculous to me that my child or future grandchildren might be judged for identifying with a race who's culture has been passed down to them through generations.

Now that I'm thinking about it actually my Mother is 1/8 Cherokee and I know that she follows a lot of that religious beliefs and she definitely passed down a lot of bedtime stories, religious beliefs and morals that come from that. We used to go to a lot of festivals and whatnot. Some of those beliefs are actually so ingrained in me that I don't even know that they come from that culture, they're just how I see things. I know for her she was raised by her Grandparents & Great Grandparents rather than her actual parents and when she got divorced she didn't want her maiden name (her parent's name) so she actually took her Great Grandparent's name which was the generation of a full blood/100% (full blood sounds creepy to me) Cherokee. Frankly we aren't close and I don't know how she identifies, I doubt she identifies as Native American although it's a big part of who she is but I can't image anyone thinking that it wasn't okay for her to when that's something that is in her blood and also happens to be who she was raised by half the time.

Also I hate citing wikipedia but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_quantum_laws this looks like there are plenty of tribes that a person can be in with being 1/10th or significantly less so there's that.

 

[Ambers Troll]

My guess on the OP's question is that black models would rather tag on issues other than race... race is pretty obvious, why waste a tag on it unless you find it of use.
There are many models with darker skin of mixed race too, so many may not feel the tag is appropriate.

 

[zippypinhead]

Is using the word "cocoa" to describe a color really that controversial? Cocoa is a particular shade of brown, and using the word makes it easy to conjure up just what kind of color a person is talking about, without lengthy descriptions. Seems more odd to me that there are people in this thread that are making that leap of logic to land on the assumption that, by using a common and effective shorthand term to describe a color, that also means one is describing women as though they are food.

 

[MFCGod]

Most women don't enjoy being called "females". It feels dehumanizing unless you're like an awkward scientist or something. I've never called a group of men males. I for sure wouldn't use it to describe a group of men that I wanted to interact with in a positive way. I don't even call my pets male and female. I don't think it softens the question at all. I think it helps illustrate the answer to the question.

Language is interesting isn't it

The title overall was bad because "Why Are Black Females On MFC Afraid To Say That They Are BLK?" is an accusation as much as a question

I do take your point, "female" does seem scientific, I was trying to think if I ever use it and I don't think I do

I don't know if I would agree it's inherently dehumanizing, I suppose it depends on context, but really any collective noun could be deemed dehumanizing

What worries me though is say "woman" is preferable to "female" atm (I don't even know that it is), but then in 5 years someone decides calling someone a woman is offensive?

Who decides these things

 

[Mikey_P]

Female, woman, cocoa--- all bad words.

Do you see why I refuse to be a people pleaser! People get upset when you described things as they are and when you use innocuous adjectives.

I really do wish that more people focused on intent instead of projecting their negative beliefs onto what was said.

The title was meant to be controversial and direct. It is similar to some threads I've stumbled across on Google when searching this topic. I was given a lot of interesting and useful perspectives.

 

[AmberCutie]

What worries me though is say "woman" is preferable to "female" atm (I don't even know that it is), but then in 5 years someone decides calling someone a woman is offensive?

This happens with all sorts of words these days, it's hard to keep up with. Words that are literally the texbook/dictionary definition of something suddenly are slurs or offensive because a small group of people imagine it up that they are bad and others jump on the bandwagon and try to make it a thing. It's really weird.

Female, woman, cocoa--- all bad words.

Do you see why I refuse to be a people pleaser! People get upset when you described things as they are and when you use innocuous adjectives.

I really do wish that more people focused on intent instead of projecting their negative beliefs onto what was said.

Yar.

Female(s) doesn't bother me in the least. It may sound silly in some contexts, but isn't offensive. Like calling a group of people "humans". It's what they are, it isn't offensive it just sounds a little funny.

 

[misslydz]

I simply list as various because 'mixed race' isnt an option. And female is a bad word? Ive always used males and females as words identifing different sexes.. there will be no words left to use if people keep getting offended so easily lol
Just say f**k it and move on Xx

 

[JickyJuly]

For me, it doesn't have anything to do with being PC or being offended. I don't think it's fair to suggest that everyone who tells you a word is not that pleasant is just being a sensitive sally. In my experience, at least where I am from, if someone is using "female" in place of woman, they are about to say something sexual or something negative (like using it in place of bitch to pretend that they aren't saying bitches). If it's used in a sexual way, to me, it makes women sound interchangeable. When women use it as slang it is similar to when a girl is disagreeing with you and using "honey" or "sweetie". She doesn't mean anything sweet. I'm not sure what other peoples' experiences are, but I've been called "female" by women in the midst of fighting probably as many times as I've had a man use the term at me.

When referring to people, female should really only be used as an adjective imo. "Female voters" "Female pilots" etc. Like, if I hear someone say "I enjoy the female body." it sounds fine to me. If they say "I enjoy females." it sounds juvenile at best.

I guess to some it might be just semantics, but if I hear someone using female as a noun for a human, I make a mental note that s/he probably has a little growth to do in the respecting others department. Anyway, I only elaborated because I was asked about my original comment which stands.

 

[AmberCutie]

I guess to some it might be just semantics

I think that's it, mostly. Thinking too far into things, having to debate meanings unnecessarily.
That's why I quoted the post with this in it:

I really do wish that more people focused on intent

and agreed.

Someone will get called out then defend themselves with "but, I didn't mean it like that" and people will still argue back and forth why they shouldn't have done it, instead of just being content with the non-ill-meaning intention.

there will be no words left to use if people keep getting offended so easily

This is also sad but true, in a not literal sense.

 

[Nordling]

Is using the word "cocoa" to describe a color really that controversial? Cocoa is a particular shade of brown, and using the word makes it easy to conjure up just what kind of color a person is talking about, without lengthy descriptions. Seems more odd to me that there are people in this thread that are making that leap of logic to land on the assumption that, by using a common and effective shorthand term to describe a color, that also means one is describing women as though they are food.

Ask yourself: How often do people go in a room and ask for "vanilla women?" The controversy arises from both the food connection and the idea of singling people out by their ethnicity. Same might apply to non-food things: onyx, ebony, charcoal....see where it could go? Nowadays folks seem least offended by black, white, asian, pacific islander, etc... why add foods, minerals and trees?

 

[zippypinhead]

Ask yourself: How often do people go in a room and ask for "vanilla women?" The controversy arises from both the food connection and the idea of singling people out by their ethnicity. Same might apply to non-food things: onyx, ebony, charcoal....see where it could go? Nowadays folks seem least offended by black, white, asian, pacific islander, etc... why add foods, minerals and trees?

Here's a fun game: try googling skin tone charts, and seeing just how many different and creative and sounds-like-a-great-flavor-for-a-latte terms you come across. Cream, peach, olive, caramel, pearl, ivory, bronze, porcelain, rose, honey... I suspect "vanilla" is far more common than you might give it credit. And it's pretty much all in relation to cosmetics, an industry aimed squarely at women and their skin color, who are lining up and buying right into the opportunity to give off the glow of "rich ginger" or "cappuccino." It's fine for L'Oreal to make a veritable fruit salad of skin tone descriptions, but "cocoa" is off the table for you or me? That strikes me as pretty arbitrary. Am I really to believe this is all actually offensive? Should we tip over the makeup counter the next time we're in a Macy's?

Sorry, but I'm just not buying it.

It's accepted in cosmetics, or house paints, or Crayola colors because that's the way people talk. Drawing a descriptive comparison is effective and efficient in verbal communication. Getting offended at fairly benign associations strikes me as somewhat obtuse, especially when it's only a single association and the offense is taken based upon a contextless reading of the usage.

 

[Nordling]

Cosmetics? But we're not talking about cosmetics. We're talking about how ordinary people term people in day to day life.

 

[zippypinhead]

You don't think cosmetic labels count as everyday terms that ordinary people use? I dunno, but maybe I'm crazy. I've certainly heard all of the words I've listed in my last post thrown out into the world in unblinking fashion, with no big deal made of it.

But fuck it. I'm just a white dude. I'm certainly beginning to feel a bit beyond my ken at this point.

 

[zippypinhead]

Or maybe I should call myself a creamy vanilla with a hint of rose skinned dude. Yeah, I like that better.

 

[Nordling]

You don't think cosmetic labels count as everyday terms that ordinary people use? I dunno, but maybe I'm crazy. I've certainly heard all of the words I've listed in my last post thrown out into the world in unblinking fashion, with no big deal made of it.

But fuck it. I'm just a white dude. I'm certainly beginning to feel a bit beyond my ken at this point.

I'm just saying that in day to day situations, like going into a cam model's room, I rarely see anyone refer to a white model's color...it's almost invariably a member of a minority, and that the complaints we read on this thread have to do with the idea of being singled out, and I agree.