What camsite has this sound effect?

[Lilly_____]

Try not to be offended by this retort.

Also you are very condescending with that retort of yours

 

[Poopy]

So far I've received 3 good responses that actually support the notion it is mostly about stalking.
#1 Social engineering / stalking is enabled by multiple site tracking. Obviously no one wants to be part of that equation.
#2 Models who want to be seen across venues but can't discuss other venues will make that information available outside of the locked cam environment.
#3 Stalking online can be as dangerous as in person stalking because it can lead to in person stalking (I previously didn't acknowledge this one openly but it's a valid retort - to the model that cited a real example, sorry that happened to you)

Again these are great responses. Any other reasons you can think of?

 

[ArcticKitty]

I'm for tuning him out. Maybe we'll get to read him arguing with himself.

 

[Poopy]

Also you are very condescending with that retort of yours

I sincerely was trying to prevent being seen as such by stating that frankly because I knew from your perspective all you can see is my words, not my expressions or intentions. I assure you I'm not trying to talk over you, dismiss or demean you in any way. Just responding to your statements, trying to shed light on my own perceptions of them and in this particular example to disarm any expected reactions you may have to my statements that are unintentional. FYI, the counterargument bit is about me, not you.

 

[Poopy]

I'm for tuning him out. Maybe we'll get to read him arguing with himself.

That response is as cute as your avatar. You could do that. That's true... I appreciate the responses so far regardless.

 

[Nienna]

My friend says she can't "turn off" Livejasmin when she is in pvt. She has to ask her admins for permission to do so. The reason I mention this, is that as per her contract, she can't turn off the spy feature. I have no issue with this, as it is a source of income for her, and in the case of CB and SC, the spies can't communicate. HOWEVER, with LiveJasmin, if you click on a private show, it takes you right into the private show the model is performing, and you can communicate. I hate that!
I don't know whether it is the studio's fault or LiveJasmin's. I am interested to hear thoughts about this.

 

[Vixxen81]

Here's one more for you.

Different sites require different things to make a room successful. On Chaturbate, it's community building. On Streamate it's quality private shows. So forth. What's offered on one site may not be offered on another site for the same model. Some guys are like bulldogs, "you did it here for this amount, do it on our site that we're both on for the same." Payouts are different on every site, either by date/time period, percentage and minimum cash out amounts.

It would be like finding out a person works at a hotel bar and a popular bar with much higher prices. They want the atmosphere of the popular bar for the price of the hotel bar's well drinks.

 

[Catwave]

Any other reasons you can think of?

Why do you want more reasons? It doesn't matter if OP is asking with stalking intentions or not, it's public info available for anyone including creeps. That's it.

Are you really suggesting to models use the ban button, so that dudes can ask these things here? Is that your solution to stop the stalking 100%? Cause it doesn't, models know about the ban button thanks ? we use it, we get stalked anyway.

 

[Ozzie_]

By "it" are you referring to the premise that the only reason for all of this is preventing stalking?

I am unsure that anyone has said stalking is the only reason. If there is even the remotest possibility that by answering a question here that we might be helping or enabling a stalker, then I for one, feel that erring on the side of caution is the best course of action.

 

[Poopy]

My friend says she can't "turn off" Livejasmin when she is in pvt. She has to ask her admins for permission to do so. The reason I mention this, is that as per her contract, she can't turn off the spy feature. I have no issue with this, as it is a source of income for her, and in the case of CB and SC, the spies can't communicate. HOWEVER, with LiveJasmin, if you click on a private show, it takes you right into the private show the model is performing, and you can communicate. I hate that!
I don't know whether it is the studio's fault or LiveJasmin's. I am interested to hear thoughts about this.

Very good response. One I had some but not full knowledge of and that deserves to ve #4 on the list of reasons in support of the model's stance.
Commentary: This is legal behavior in all cases except exclusive privates since a paywall is involved on both sites. I think it's primarily the studio's fault in part because the model could otherwise log-off keeping them in line with exclusive chat rules but it's also LiveJasmin's fault in that (unknown to me) they allow users to communicate in the private unlike most other sites. FYI, that isn't unethical behavior by the model in my opinion. Nonetheless, it is a good reason for why site 1 would be favored over site 2 especially if it's a situation where site 1 user is engaged in an exclusive chat on stripchat for example and keeps hearing forced privates on livejasmin (a very common occurrence I've experienced). Ultimately it's an issue that cam sites need to resolve.

 

[Finchomatic]

 

[Poopy]

I am unsure that anyone has said stalking is the only reason. If there is even the remotest possibility that by answering a question here that we might be helping or enabling a stalker, then I for one, feel that erring on the side of caution is the best course of action.

Yes, this is in line with #1 on the list and honestly puts a huge hole into my own argument. In line with your statement, it wouldn't matter how effective it is at preventing stalking (which is what my argument is centered around when faced with this retort), all that matters is that it potentially can be used as a method of stalking and therefore invalidates it from consideration. Basically no one wants to assist a stalker so situations that could potentially assist a stalker are totally avoided even if the person isn't a stalker. My assertion was that this isn't about stalking or even primarily about stalking and this response pretty strongly counters that which I think I've acknowledged although not directly until this point.

 

[Poopy]

Why do you want more reasons? It doesn't matter if OP is asking with stalking intentions or not, it's public info available for anyone including creeps. That's it.

Are you really suggesting to models use the ban button, so that dudes can ask these things here? Is that your solution to stop the stalking 100%? Cause it doesn't, models know about the ban button thanks ? we use it, we get stalked anyway.

No, my argument was actually the latter portion of your argument, that you will get stalked away. My argument was that only casual users are prevented from learning site 2 by models or users failing to identify the identity of site 2 using the cam sounds. My logic would be that ultimately the cam sounds themselves will lead the more didicated stalkers you're trying to block to site 2. But again the counter argument advanced by models that models don't want to be even remotely part of the stalking chain assisting 1 stalker to their goal even if 99 casual users have to just go without that information remains to be a strong counter. In simpler terms it's basically saying, "I'm not going to make it easier for the stalkers." It's a valid statement. The other related point that internet stalking is dangerous, maybe even as much as in person stalking is also a valid point.

 

[Poopy]

Here's one more for you.

Different sites require different things to make a room successful. On Chaturbate, it's community building. On Streamate it's quality private shows. So forth. What's offered on one site may not be offered on another site for the same model. Some guys are like bulldogs, "you did it here for this amount, do it on our site that we're both on for the same." Payouts are different on every site, either by date/time period, percentage and minimum cash out amounts.

It would be like finding out a person works at a hotel bar and a popular bar with much higher prices. They want the atmosphere of the popular bar for the price of the hotel bar's well drinks.

Another interesting / excellent response from you, one I had not considered under that context.

 

[AmberCutie]

#1 Stalking is self-explanatory but I will continue to cite the differences between visiting an internet site and meeting a model in person. The two are not the same, the dangers are not the same, hence the benefits of the cam economy over your local strip joint.
#2 If the person is on site 1, they can do it on site 1 as much as they can do it on site 2. The person can avoid a ban by creating a new account unless the ban is IP level. Again this line of questioning is about the knee jerk response of delaying a person from locating site 2, not about the obvious problem of stalking and it's effects. I'd actually say you're not removing the effects by delaying the potential stalker, you're just delaying the potential stalker based on an assumption that they are a stalker and stalkers are dangerous. I'm not automatically accepting either assumption.
#3 I agree people are entitled to a safe working environment and that's why there's a ban function. Models can control the terms they interact with users. Again I'm not saying stalking is good, I'm saying cam sites are doing pretty well at placing the power in model's hands on who they will continue to interact with. It's their choice. If someone tries to violate that, ban them. If they keep dodging bans get their ip address banned. Internet camming isn't the healthiest social environment, I get this, but I've yet to see someone clearly articulate the dangers of this particular issue.

I really don't understand why you're doubling down so hard on your stance. Stalking is bad, whether online or in person, and many of us think not answering the type of queries in the OP helps quell it.

Take that. Move on. Not sure why you're so adamant in playing some kind of whacky devil's advocate to that point.

 

[Poopy]

I really don't understand why you're doubling down so hard on your stance. Stalking is bad, whether online or in person, and many of us think not answering the type of queries in the OP helps quell it.

Take that. Move on. Not sure why you're so adamant in playing some kind of whacky devil's advocate to that point.

You have a good forum. I appreciate the responses I've received. Take note of my more recent responses. I've acknowledged this line of response. I "get it".

 

[AmberCutie]

I think you'll appreciate my more recent responses. I've acknowledged this line of response to be valid and compelling.

It's possible. You've made so many in a short time I've not been able to keep up. The quote feature might be up your alley, quote all the posts you want to reply to then answer within a single reply

 

[Poopy]

I remember one guy joking that I wasn't hot enough to invoke stalker tendencies. That was a whole new level of red flag.

Sorry that happened to you and I agree that I don't know everything about modeling or the associated risks which is why I appreciate your responses.

 

[Poopy]

And now you’re constructing straw men to make your argument better. Nobody said it was the only premise. Nobody said it solved 100 percent of all stalking cases. You’re asking people to defend stances they never took. Sounds fun, but I’ll pass.

And your point about site 2 also being public can also be used to further explain why a model wouldn’t want to answer questions on this forum about different tip sounds. Maybe, as you assert, the person asking is a total saint. If he asks publicly on this forum, and a model answers publicly, then the answer is here on ACF for any number of actual, problematic stalkers to google and discover for years to come. If you don’t have to facilitate that, why would you?

Bad people will figure out how to be bad without our help, that is true. But if I know the next door neighbor is an arsonist, am I supposed to just hand him a lighter and a gas canister because “oh well, he’s gonna find one eventually anyway!” ?

I'm not asking you to defend that stance. I think I made it as a support of a limited assertion, not to be the argument itself. I'd have to go back and read the prior arguments to be certain but it doesn't matter because....
The 2nd point is valid. It's #1 on my list of valid reasons that strongly counter my initial assertion. I agree with you.
The 3rd point you made is closely associated with your 2nd point so it doesn't need further elaboration.

 

[Vixxen81]

Sorry that happened to you and I agree that I don't know everything about modeling or the associated risks which is why I appreciate your responses.

We're always going to know more than you. It's our job to know these things, it is your job as a viewer to comply with a model's boundaries or move on. ? We don't owe anyone an explanation and often times one's opinion of how we do or do not do things is a time suck, a hit to our egos/self esteem, or worse -- confirmation that you're not willing to work with who you like in the manner we approve of...100% disrespect.

I just banned a guy in real time as I am typing this response to you because he tipped 25 tokens and wanted to act like their were a bunch of non tippers while I'm learning how to engage in Onlyfans to boost my income and significantly battle against guys precisely like him. He knows my OF name and could follow me there and be a pain. I chose to do this and I can handle it by banning him but on OF it's going to result in a charge back where they deduct his money from my total payout.

 

[Poopy]

That would require me to read what you wrote again and I refuse to read stupid things twice, so no, I can't point it out. Let's just assume it's everything. I'm pretty sure it's everything.

I didn't set out to make friends in this line of questioning and I doubt I have made any. This is my last response. Sorry if I missed anyone else.

I'll spare you the trouble. My original argument was:
#1 This isn't entirely about stalking or even majority about stalking (partially discredited - It is about stalking)
#2 It's also about splitcamming / financials / bottom line / some unprofessional behavior / anti-snitch culture (unchallenged, maybe partially discredited by #1)
#3 Majority of people asking this line of questioning aren't stalkers and have a legitimate reason to ask them. (unchallenged)
#4 Stalkers are gonna stalk / this isn't effective at hindering stalkers, just casual users (mostly unchallenged, maybe partially discredited, the perception seems to be that it is at least partially effective against stalkers)
#5 Internet stalking is not particularly dangerous. Models can ban users. (Totally discredited - it is very dangerous, banning isn't entirely effective and the problem is much broader than I argued)

I doubt you actually disagree with all of the above but I understand the purpose your statement serves in these kinds of debates. And humor is humor even if I'm the target.

 

[Poopy]

We're always going to know more than you. It's our job to know these things, it is your job as a viewer to comply with a model's boundaries or move on. ? We don't owe anyone an explanation and often times one's opinion of how we do or do not do things is a time suck, a hit to our egos/self esteem, or worse -- confirmation that you're not willing to work with who you like in the manner we approve of...100% disrespect.

I just banned a guy in real time as I am typing this response to you because he tipped 25 tokens and wanted to act like their were a bunch of non tippers while I'm learning how to engage in Onlyfans to boost my income and significantly battle against guys precisely like him. He knows my OF name and could follow me there and be a pain. I chose to do this and I can handle it by banning him but on OF it's going to result in a charge back where they deduct his money from my total payout.

I'm serious when I say that I appreciate your responses. You've outlined emotional, ethical, and financial concerns with stalking or even the barriers of dealing with it in the several responses across this chat. You've also clarified / corrected some of my assumptions in a very respectful manner. I honestly could've just had this debate with you and would've left satisfied with the reasons you've put forth as to why even indirectly assisting stalking is rejected and the other related information I've gleaned from these responses. Again thanks for taking the time. I hope I haven't made your day any worse.

 

[Vixxen81]

I'm serious when I say that I appreciate your responses. You've outlined emotional, ethical, and financial concerns with stalking or even the barriers of dealing with it in the several responses across this chat. You've also clarified / corrected some of my assumptions in a very respectful manner. I honestly could've just had this debate with you and would've left satisfied with the reasons you've put forth as to why even indirectly assisting stalking is rejected and the other related information I've gleaned from these responses. Again thanks for taking the time. I hope I haven't made your day any worse.

I appreciate that. Really. We're always going to be more leery of you than you are of us. The only thing you have to lose is money and the only thing we have to lose is everything. It may look like camming is a free range ticket to paradise but there are laws and TOS to abide by...this isn't your grandfather's found porn magazines in the woods situation. We're more regulated than the oil industry. We have to protect our assets and sometimes that means gate keeping.

 

[pbonACF]

Because internet stalking can turn into real-world stalking? Because it takes a hell of a lot of discipline and care to completely separate your camming-person and your real-person on the internet?

Lets say they are stalking, so what? Why wouldn't the model be able to ban them or block them on the 2nd site? Models can block users on just about all cam sites right? Maybe someone can explain why cam models are so concerned with internet stalking. I know there's some crazy people out there but again they will eventually find the 2nd site if they're THAT motivated i.e. crazy and the model can just block them again when they do. What's the big deal on protecting site 2 from site 1 visitors even those site 1 visitors you don't want on site 2? Aside: I already acknowledge the financial response (maybe you make more on site 1) so you don't need to restate that one.

 

[JaneJaneth]

That's a compelling reason, far more compelling than some I've heard. I've actually thought of this reason, hackers do the very same thing to many people in social engineering attacks and I was waiting for someone to state it. But take note that it supports my retort that a true stalker is far more motivated than the casual users that are turned away by not being told site 2 immediately. A true stalker will ultimately find out. The issue is that site 2's tip sounds can be heard on site 1 and will eventually lead the person to site 2. Basically I'm saying you're delaying the inevitable. It's a legitimate stance that can be assumed from your response that you're taking yourself out of that equation by not assisting the potential stalker. That's a great retort and a legitimate response. Any more reasons people want to articulate?

Chris, my man. Stop it. There’s a whole reason why models don’t give out this information. It’s for our own safety that has been bleached over and over. We don’t know the reason someone would not ask the model for the sound themselves, so we don’t want to risk it.

Yes, they can find that out themselves if they try hard enough. But we don’t want to pave an easy way for a potential harmful scenario to the said model.

You are not a model, so you can’t really know what we go through on a daily basis.

 

[Diana_Devil]

Help me with this one please.
Someone is familiar with this camsite sound effect?



Thank you.

well its simple ! its that cam site that you dont know yet

i know it but i will not tell you

 

[mika_kedi]

I didn't set out to make friends in this line of questioning and I doubt I have made any. This is my last response. Sorry if I missed anyone else.

I'll spare you the trouble. My original argument was:
#1 This isn't entirely about stalking or even majority about stalking (partially discredited - It is about stalking)
#2 It's also about splitcamming / financials / bottom line / some unprofessional behavior / anti-snitch culture (unchallenged, maybe partially discredited by #1)
#3 Majority of people asking this line of questioning aren't stalkers and have a legitimate reason to ask them. (unchallenged)
#4 Stalkers are gonna stalk / this isn't effective at hindering stalkers, just casual users (mostly unchallenged, maybe partially discredited, the perception seems to be that it is at least partially effective against stalkers)
#5 Internet stalking is not particularly dangerous. Models can ban users. (Totally discredited - it is very dangerous, banning isn't entirely effective and the problem is much broader than I argued)

I doubt you actually disagree with all of the above but I understand the purpose your statement serves in these kinds of debates. And humor is humor even if I'm the target.

You still can't make me read that. I've read all the responses to you but none of your posts since yesterday. I won't debate someone with a brain as smooth as yours for free. If you want to know my payment methods they are in my signature, it will be $100 for me to actually read what you said and another $100 to respond after reading.

 

[rockin_rod]

@chrisrules9955 What gives you the right to demand that the models here provide an argument to convince you of anything?
A question was asked, and answered. Swiftly. On page 1.
You don't like, or agree with, that answer provided? Meh.
Only conclusion i can draw is that you're getting a kick out of baiting folk and keeping someone else's thread alive (unless you're also the OP?) by arguing about very legitimate personal safety concerns.

 

[AudriTwo]

 

[ArcticKitty]

I really don't understand why you're doubling down so hard on your stance. Stalking is bad, whether online or in person, and many of us think not answering the type of queries in the OP helps quell it.

Take that. Move on. Not sure why you're so adamant in playing some kind of whacky devil's advocate to that point.

I wondered that also last night when I came home from watching the birds trash the 49ers at a friend's party. I can only imagine that 1. he's a pedant troll, and/or 2. he's on a unique spot on the spectrum and truly doesn't realise that annoying people he is a complete stranger to really does make him unwelcome.


In other news, I had a good time and lots of beer and salty snacks and a nice buzz on, thank you