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UK leaves the EU. What's does this mean for the UK??

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LioraVox

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Jul 1, 2013
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I saw some tweets yesterday and a bit this morning about the population of the U.K. voting to leave the EU. But I personally don't understand why they left, or just anything circling this topic. I have like way too many questions but basically why doesn't this seem like a good thing for the U.K.?
 
I don't wanna leave the EU, I really don't. T_T So sad. I wanted to retire in a cute European village with maybe a fluffy goat and a less racist government.

Literally the only thing I've been able to console myself with is the fact that my MFC pay will be slightly higher due to the UK's economy being very screwed. I'm so scared for my country right now.

...I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that so many people thought leaving was a good idea. o.0
 
I have like way too many questions but basically why doesn't this seem like a good thing for the U.K.?

I don't know if it isn't a good thing for the UK. I think it may have broader negative implications for the EU, to be honest. What it is is an unprecedented event. No independent state has left the EU. The fact that it is the UK that wants to do the leaving is also a pretty major point, since, economically and politically, the UK is not a small force on its own. I would imagine that its presence in the EU had been a pretty big positive, overall. What it provided to the EU (at least as far as the logic for leaving goes) was quite a bit more than what it received.

Here's an overview from the BBC.
 
For now, it means people living in the UK can no longer go to live and work in other EU countries. It means that skilled Europeans can no longer come to work in the UK. If the vast majority of financial experts are right, it means that the UK will be losing millions over the next 5-10 years. It means potentially higher tax rates for UK citizens. It means hundreds of businesses face an unsure future. It could mean that the prices of housing rises. It could mean the price of education rises. It will mean less educational and occupational opportunities for young people. Right now, it means the British pound is in the shitter.

It might make it easier for the UK to tighten border security and thus allow less immigrants in to the country, but over half of our immigrants come from outside the EU, and the ones that do come from EU countries and do so illegally will continue to illegally enter the country whether we're in the EU or not. It might take some of the strain off of services like the NHS as in theory, there will be less immigrants seeking health care because there will be less immigrants. In the future, once the British economy stabilises, it might lead to us being better off than we were in the EU if we can arrange better trade deals with countries outside of the EU.

It will let the UK government run the country as they see fit, without interference from the EU. It is a massive, massive risk that could backfire horrifically. My problem with the result is two-fold.

1) The majority of people voting to leave are of older generations and won't have to live with the repercussions of their choice. The younger generations voted (mostly) to stay, and it's these people who will have to navigate the potential pitfalls (of which there are many) that this result will create.

2) Not all by any means, but a lot of the people voting to leave, have done so thanks to a campaign predicated on thinly veiled racism and out-right lies, and simply not understanding the ramifications of their vote. It's incredibly depressing think that the UK might have been irrevocably changed for the worse due to a combination of racism, ignorance, and stupidity.
 
Economists freak out any time there's a catalyst. They all like dull, boring, business as usual. Hell, economists warned of the apocalyptic effects that the Grexit would have, even though back-channeling shows that the entire Euro-Zone wanted them out, including Greece! And I still fail to see the logic how continuously bailing out Greece, when they'll never be able to repay it, is doing a favor to any European country. So, I take what economists are saying with a grain of salt.

There's a good chance that many of you here are getting Euro income as well. It was awesome back when it was trading like 1.4 on the USD and I've been waiting patiently for it to bounce back up. The Euro is down 2.2% since the Brexit and at this point I can only laugh. I've gotten so tired of waiting for it to bounce back up that I've given up. I'll gladly sacrifice the exchange rate on my Euro income for their freedom.

This also sets major precedence. Catalonia, anyone? They failed at succession. If the Brexit failed, one could come to the assumption that we'll really never see a modern day revolution in the Western World. I'm very happy to see the precedence set. Hopefully this gives Catalonia the steam to succeed with their referendum, too.
 
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Oh, and fuck Obama for going over to the UK and flexing on the country, warning that USA would pretty much cut off all trade with the UK as a result of the Brexit. I'm an isolationist in nature, so I say we don't interfere with anyone, period. But it's another thing to go and flex on the people of our allied countries. Let Europe decide their own policies.
 
I voted leave yesterday.

I took the time to research as much as I could on both sides, and have extensive knowledge of European markets via my work. For me, it boiled down to my attitude to risk, having the option to maintain the status quo or take a chance things might get significantly better, after the short term drops.

My analysis of the factors meant that I voted with my own applied logic. The FTSE has already bounced back slightly by close of play today, and I don't see things being changed a great deal in the future. The UK is a large trading partner with the EU bloc, and I believe that agreements will happen before the UK fully leaves, which may not be for another 2 years. Germany and France, the two largest economies in the EU, would lose large amounts by shunning trade, and their influence will, despite what is said, mean there are some sort of negotiations in place. The alternative is that Brexit acts as a catalyst for other nations, and the EU then needs to adapt or perish.

I think, although there's little evidence to prove the theory given the anonymity of voting, that there were more young voters for leave than believed. I'm still in my 20's myself, but there's a simple reason why, just like the General Election 2015, people on the right side of the political spectrum don't speak up in public. We can be hounded for our views, even if we had the greatest evidence ever. It'd only be dismissed as "racist scum". To prove that point, I found myself near to a political rally by the Labour party whilst in Cardiff about 8 years ago, there were speakers going on about how the evil Tories were going to raise the tuition fees to £9000. Because of where I worked, I knew that actually it was something the Labour party would be doing if reelected, a rare policy that both sides agreed on. I could've easily produced all the meeting minutes discussing it, because my career gave me that access to their ministers. I remember muttering, albeit loudly "That's not true..", and was then physically attacked by people in the crowd. The people out protesting this in the streets tonight are protesting a democratic decision, and it sickens me. People are elected, and decisions made, based on the voice of the people. Just because you don't get what you want doesn't mean you should behave in such a manner.
 
...I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that so many people thought leaving was a good idea. o.0

You could call it a peasants revolt. A few different groups, but the biggest was the poor, who voted in large numbers to leave. They believe London are getting rich/fat/greedy at there expense. A failure over successive governments to share wealth throughout the population.
 
Why did the UK always refuse to adopt the euro as their currency?
A lot of reasons. Besides pride in the pound, the UK also has the commonwealth to think about. The EU had to make allowances to allow UK to enter and still head the common market, but not allow common market members to join the EU. Very complicated.

Whatever happens next, I believe Brexit was a mistake.
 
Nonsense. The U.S. is in the process of negotiating a trade deal with the E.U. What Obama said is that the U.K. would have to wait their turn, should they decide to leave the E.U.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/24/leave-campaign-obama-trade-warning-eu-referendum



Sorry about the funky intro, first video I found. It's around 13:00ish Yes, he did word it that way, but in my personal opinion that's a total flex move. You hear his tone and how he worded it. He's basically saying "If you want our trade, stay in the EU". The hypothetical he floats also indicates that the EU is the only thing facilitating the UK's access to the American economy.

Hell, even the Guardian uses the words "Warned" which is really a polite word for "threatened". Any time there's leverage being used to sway a position of a people, that is strong-arming and that is threatening.
 


Sorry about the funky intro, first video I found. It's around 13:00ish Yes, he did word it that way, but in my personal opinion that's a total flex move. You hear his tone and how he worded it. He's basically saying "If you want our trade, stay in the EU". The hypothetical he floats also indicates that the EU is the only thing facilitating the UK's access to the American economy.

Hell, even the Guardian uses the words "Warned" which is really a polite word for "threatened". Any time there's leverage being used to sway a position of a people, that is strong-arming and that is threatening.


The trade deal on between the U.S. and the EU has been in the works since 2003, and it's still not done.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/05/us-eu-trade-deal-the-guardian-briefing

Obama was just stating the obvious. Of course, some people won't let ignorance get in the way of shitting all over anything he says.
 
Why did the UK always refuse to adopt the euro as their currency?
What was the reason for them leaving the EU?

In reality the U.K. was never really part of the EU anyway. People arguing about immigration and workers rights and blah blah blah. The U.K. doesn't subscribe to the EU's common border policy or borderless free movement. Switzerland, which is not even an EU member, has borderless travel with EU countries.

The U.K. was also not part of the euro. They had a permanent opt-out since 1992 from a special protocol of the Maastricht Treaty.

The U.K. also opted out of the Charter of Fundamental Rights in Europe. That means the U.K is able to define basic human rights without any consideration of European law.

The U.K. has been an EU member pretty much in name only. Trade will still continue, the U.K. will just have to renegotiate trade terms with individual countries again now. The U.K.'s number one trade partner is the U.S.. Nothing will change there really. And Germany and France are 2nd and 3rd biggest. The U.K. has a couple years before the complete withdrawal finishes to renegotiate with them.

But if you look at in reverse, the U.K. is Germany's 3rd largest trading partner and for France they are the 4th largest. So those countries will also feel the need to get those renegotiations done fast. It won't take a couple years.

One of the bigger areas that are going to be impacted is farmers. Currently (before Brexit vote) U.K. farmers received subsidies from the EU CAP (Common Agriculture Policy) because they are paid less for their crops than it costs to grow them. Every country in the EU pays into that CAP so that it can then pay subsidies out to farmers all over the EU. But the problem is the U.K. pays in about £6 billion a year, the CAP only pays the farmers back £3 billion a year in subsidies. France gets around three times that amount. The U.K. has been paying more to help farmers in other countries than it is getting back to help farmers in their own country. Effectively right now, after the vote, the U.K. could double the subsidy payments to its farmers out of its own pockets and not be any worse economically. Whether that happens, or they see farmers hit hard by all this, remains to be seen.

The simple fact is leaving the EU allows the U.K. to pursue it's own trading agreements without EU consideration. So it will most likely open up new markets, and better the current agreements already in place with the U.S. and other countries. The U.K. economy will be stronger in the long run.

Personally I couldn't care less on the entire Brexit vote and if they left or not. But I think the U.K. will be better off for having done it. There wasn't much gain from being part of the EU ever anyway.

My $0.02
 
The simple fact is leaving the EU allows the U.K. to pursue it's own trading agreements without EU consideration. So it will most likely open up new markets, and better the current agreements already in place with the U.S. and other countries

I dont see how it will lead to better agreements than what the UK had while being a member of the EU: they either will have to negotiate with each individual member state (and hence be in a discussion between equals) or negotiate with the whole EU at once (and hence be at a disadvantage being just a 'small' state trying to gain access to the market of the whole block). The former will be a ton of legal work that will take a long time to handle (not just the '1 or 2 years' that lots of people are claiming) and the latter will take even longer as AFAIK all member states must ratify each treaty signed by the block before it becomes active. So, for a full recovery, you can expect at least 5 to 10 years if not more.
 
Well they will lose a few more models moving there from central and eastern Europe I suspect.... I know many models who have moved there, that will become harder in future.

They traded more control by opting out of a free trade block, not that the UK was exactly in that block by keeping their own currency anyway.
The UK will be just fine, as a culture they understand the modern world perhaps better than any other nation (keep in mind almost everyone speaks English now), this will always be of value, especially to emerging economies/ democracies/ laws.
 
Of course the "real" reason for the vote to leave was also based on lies the "leave" faction told voters.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwa...nd-the-nhs-w?utm_term=.qxrB3V4pBR#.yhjPOedWPQ

Except his faction within the Leave campaign didn't say that. There were a couple of different groups all trying to encourage a leave vote.

End of the day, Farage can't keep that pledge anyway. His party has 1 MP in a house of 650, and it's not even him. He has no influence in it. I'm not a fan of the guy, but in this case, he's not wrong in his own position. Whether those from the faction promising the NHS funding, most of whom are MP's, go ahead with it remains to be seen.
 
I dont see how it will lead to better agreements than what the UK had while being a member of the EU: they either will have to negotiate with each individual member state (and hence be in a discussion between equals) or negotiate with the whole EU at once (and hence be at a disadvantage being just a 'small' state trying to gain access to the market of the whole block). The former will be a ton of legal work that will take a long time to handle (not just the '1 or 2 years' that lots of people are claiming) and the latter will take even longer as AFAIK all member states must ratify each treaty signed by the block before it becomes active. So, for a full recovery, you can expect at least 5 to 10 years if not more.


This is just a quick google check, I'm in no way a European economic expert. But I find that the GDP of the U.K. is $2.678 trillion USD. The GPD of the entire EU (with the U.K. still in it for that total) is $16.8 trillion USD according to the International Monetary Fund. And therefore approximately 16% of the EU revenue since it's based on 1% of a member countries GPD I believe. Just dividing those two numbers out means the U.K. represents around 16% of the economy of the entire European Union. I'm not going to count that as a 'small' state. I think they have enough economic power behind them to get trade deals done.

And that number is again confirmed if you look at the latest budget for the entire EU. There's a lot of breakdown in that pdf, but just quickly looking at the totals by countries, on page 17, you can quickly see the U.K. was the 2nd largest contributor to the EU. Only Germany did more. Wiping out that contribution total leaves the EU reeling far worse than the U.K.. The U.K. is an economic powerhouse all on its own.

But my thinking may differ from yours. I think you are coming from the angle of having to get back into trading with the EU as one major powerhouse now. So the U.K. will have to fight, plead, and beg their way into trade agreements. But I don't think negotiations with the EU will be the primary focus at all. So within a couple years it will be the EU fighting for trade agreements with the U.K.

The U.K. now has the freedom to go directly to emerging markets that the EU has been holding them back from. Their focus is most likely going to be China now. You'll start to see the agricultural produce of the U.K. going to those markets instead of the EU. Which will have a further negative impact on the economy of the EU. Not only will they no longer be getting that £3 billion a year* from the U.K. in CAP payments, but now the EU will have to pay to import that food from somewhere else if they stall negotiations. Or they won't be able to export as much as they are just to feed their own people.

Meanwhile China will be glad to take all the produce the U.K. can produce...and sell goods back to them in return. And it won't be just agriculture. They, and other emerging countries, will easily take up the slack that has been exclusively going to the EU all this time. Those deals will not take years to put in place.

Again. I see this hurting the EU the most of anyone. I'd probably guess most of the 'stay' mentality has been funded by other members of the EU, because this is going to hit them the hardest and they know it. They just lost a lion's share of their funding for handouts to other countries in the EU. Any stalling in trade agreements just hurts the EU, all the while they are bleeding more money out to make up the difference in their CAP funding. The U.K., it's just going to further strengthen.



*(Net. £6 billion paid in by U.K. minus the £3 billion the EU gives back in subsidies as mentioned before in my post)
 
I just want to say thanks for being so informative guys. But two more questions.
1) Why is the Prime Minister resigning? And what does that mean for the U.K / Brexit? Is this a good or bad thing. And 2) How does the Brexit effect (affect?) the U.S.? (If it does)
 
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