Twitter Soapbox - Racism, Sexism etc

[MFCGod]

I've only just got an mfc related twitter again and started following models, a lot seem to tweet and RT about issues like racism and sexism etc which is interesting and obviously important topics that should be/but are hard to discuss

Sadly, I feel like a lot of these tweets are trying to shame people for no reason

These are videos posted in tweets about people saying they're "colourblind"





I made a short audio response



I can't believe people trying to say they don't have any prejudice by using the term colourblind, somehow gets twisted to then saying they're blind to racism so they're bad people, it's not literal

Also if the very popular feminist tweets are to believed, then all men are rapists and I should feel shame for it, because I myself am a man so part of the problem.. :|

I believe in total equality, have never or would ever hurt someone, but I should still feel terrible shame judging but twitter.

The same as I think it's a shame that "conspiracy theory" has become synonyms with "fantasy", "feminism" for me has become "anti-men" instead of "pro-women"

I think I preferred being ignorant to these views being so popular.

 

[JickyJuly]

If you believe that men and women are equal, then you are a feminist. Represent feminism (which should not have anything to do with being anti-men) with sanity in the face of extremism. Allowing extremists to define a movement is not fair.

As far as being "colorblind" goes, it's kind of a naive statement at best. I mean, you value your manhood enough to be offended by your (off base) feeling that feminism suggest all men are rapists and pigs, right? You wouldn't want your manhood boiled down to being nonexistent if feminists called for everyone to be genital blind. Black people have the same right to value their color.

 

[MFCGod]

As far as being "colorblind" goes, it's kind of a naive statement at best.

Why do you feel colourblind is naive? isn't it what we should be aiming for, no prejudice? or do you have a different interpenetration of the word.

I mean, you value your manhood enough to be offended by your (off base) feeling that feminism suggest all men are rapists and pigs, right? You wouldn't want your manhood boiled down to being nonexistent if feminists called for everyone to be genital blind. Black people have the same right to value their color.

I didn't choose to be my gender, race nor my sexual orientation so I don't take pride in any of it/value it

I only try and be proud of things I've had to work to achieve, not what I got out of the luck of the draw

But still, it does offend me to be blindly stereotyped as a monster and linked to behavior that's totally abhorrent

 

[JickyJuly]

I think the "colorblind" thing skips over everything instead of addressing it. Saying you don't see color isn't the same as saying everyone is equal. Ignoring isn't the same as accepting or admiring. Saying "I ignore this thing about you that some people hate you for" isn't that nice. It feels phony and misguided. I want dudes around me to believe I am equal to them. That doesn't mean I want them to pretend I don't have tits and a vagina. Those are awesome things to have. If we have to pretend we are colorless, gender-less blobs in order to accept one another as equals, what's the point? It probably comes down to semantics, but it rubs me the wrong way personally. People have a right to take pride in anything about themselves that they value. I don't think you even have to take pride in something to want it acknowledged as part of you though. It's human nature to want to be understood.

 

[marchards]

There is a strong trend in modern feminism that is clearly more about trashing men than it is about empowering women. And that's fine. I think mainstream feminism is still about empowering women, but the radical fringe is just noisier.

As for "colourblind", I'm not sure black people (or others) would be too please to be regarded by white people as an honorary white person. I assume black people (or others) have spent more time than white people (as the "default" in Western countries) on forging their identity using whatever parameters they feel are required. It seems a shame to pretend that it doesn't exist.

 

[dilligaf0]

I am not "colorblind". I notice a person's race. However, I choose to try my best to not let it influence my opinion of others , or how I treat them.
Men and Women are not equal. We should all try to treat them equally..
In many ways, it's a case of modifying human behavior to accept those who are different from us, not berate them for that difference.

 

[gingerhobbit]

If you believe that men and women are equal, then you are a feminist. Represent feminism (which should not have anything to do with being anti-men) with sanity in the face of extremism. Allowing extremists to define a movement is not fair.

As far as being "colorblind" goes, it's kind of a naive statement at best. I mean, you value your manhood enough to be offended by your (off base) feeling that feminism suggest all men are rapists and pigs, right? You wouldn't want your manhood boiled down to being nonexistent if feminists called for everyone to be genital blind. Black people have the same right to value their color.

Genital blindness. I've heard of that. It's an STD, right?

ETA: And if it isn't it should be. That name is too cool to waste.

 

[Nordling]

Yes, announcing one is "colorblind," is simply a lie folks say in a poor attempt to say one is lacking in prejudice. Instead of putting out ones eyes and not seeing the reality of the world, try celebrating diversity, it's what makes us beautiful.

 

[MFCGod]

Isn't knit picking over the interpretation of a word trying to be used to express a lack prejudice a bit much.

Swapping positive for negative

 

[Empress Mika]

Yeaahh, discussions on Twitter can get pretty intense. To avoid this kind of drama, you have to pick and choose who to follow ^_^;

 

[gingerhobbit]

Yeaahh, discussions on Twitter can get pretty intense. To avoid this kind of drama, you have to pick and choose who to follow ^_^;

Amen. Sometimes, I think it's no coincidence that the first four letters of Twitter spell "twit."

 

[Nordling]

Isn't knit picking over the interpretation of a word trying to be used to express a lack prejudice a bit much.

Swapping positive for negative

If it was really nit picking yes, but it's not. "Color blind" quite literally MEANS not able to see something, and in the case of race relations, that's simply nonsense.

 

[MFCGod]

If it was really nit picking yes, but it's not. "Color blind" quite literally MEANS not able to see something, and in the case of race relations, that's simply nonsense.

If you take it literally yeah, but I don't see why you take it literally in this context.

 

[Nordling]

If you take it literally yeah, but I don't see why you take it literally in this context.

Because if you don't take it literally, it becomes ambiguous and confusing. Everyone would have a different interpretation. In subjects as sensitive as this, I think it's better to stick with simple, literal terminology.

 

[SexySteph]

Being colorblind is a privilege that people who aren't white can't afford. A person of color can't ignore skin colors and pretend everyone is exactly the same and has the same experiences. That'd be naive and sometimes dangerous.

When someone claims to be colorblind they're ignoring the differences that society has created. "Oh, I'm colorblind, I don't see different races, we're all the same" suggests that we all have the same experiences where that's really just not true. Because races/racism exist people of different skin colors have different experiences.

Also if the very popular feminist tweets are to believed, then all men are rapists and I should feel shame for it, because I myself am a man so part of the problem.. :|

... What tweets are these? That's like saying "I got the impression from some very popular Christian picketers that most Christians believe that God hates f**** and 9/11 was God's way of punishing the US."

 

[fandango]

I totally understand what you are trying to say @MFCGod and while your intentions are good its just that the word colourblind is a poor one to use.

Equal in this context does not mean the same. People are all different and those differences should be celebrated and acknowledged. It doesnt mean that someone should be treated as less than for having those differences. You should be able to say that someone is different to you but they are still a human and should be treated in exactly the same way as everyone else.

True equality will be when everyone can celebrate their differences and still have the same opportunities, rights, treatment etc.

 

[MFCGod]

... What tweets are these? That's like saying "I got the impression from some very popular Christian picketers that most Christians believe that God hates f**** and 9/11 was God's way of punishing the US."

Tweets like this

I feel like this may be a fake because it really serves an agenda that we live in a rape culture

 

[JickyJuly]

I feel like the people you follow on Twitter lack all grammar and communication skills. If you're trying to say you wish racism and dudes that make jokes about raping women after being rebuffed would cease to exist, I'm on board with that. We probably all are. But, dudes that respond to mild rejection with anger, threatening behavior and even violence do exist. A good number of women respond to men with shit like "I have a boyfriend" and fake numbers just because of the possible backlash.

Not suggesting that's a healthy way of dealing with things. Women should learn to say no and say it often.

Follow people on Twitter who make more sense. That would be a good start.

 

[SexySteph]

Tweets like this

I feel like this may be a fake because it really serves an agenda that we live in a rape culture

The first one doesn't imply that all men are rapists and that you should feel shame for your gender as you posited in your first post:

Also if the very popular feminist tweets are to believed, then all men are rapists and I should feel shame for it, because I myself am a man so part of the problem.. :|

And it might be fake, it might not be. Not sure. As a woman I HAVE as a matter of fact received texts similar to that. Even one conversation that went from friendly to threatening me with blackmail if I didn't come over and "put on a show with a wine bottle" for some "friends" after they found out about my job. So, rapey conversations sadly happen decently often. We DO live in a rape culture.

The second one, I'm not really sure what the full text is but I'm going to guess your idea that "you should still feel shame" is from the bit about "not all men". The "not all men" thing IS incredibly problematic. Someone tries to talk about how rape is an issue and how women always have to be aware of their surroundings and someone chimes in "but not all men". No one is saying that ALL men are the problem. Just that enough men that it's a societal issue instead of an individual issue. And when someone says "but not all men" it's essentially saying "that's a cool statement but could we make it about me and my social group for a minute? Because I get that you feel threatened quite often but my feelings are hurt by your feelings of unsafeness".

None of these tweets suggest that all men are rapists or that you should feel shame for it. I'm not sure where you got that.

 

[MFCGod]

The second one, I'm not really sure what the full text is but the "not all men" thing IS incredibly problematic.

You know why that's the first thing men say though?

It's because when the tone is all men are at best creeps, worst rapists, they want to clarify that "hang on, I'm not like that.. please know I'm not like that" before the conversation continues

When you remove the opportunity to at least clarify you hope you aren't being lumped in with monsters, you feel like you're being accused yourself, so you then get defensive and aren't open to hearing the rest of what is said

 

[SexySteph]

You know why that's the first thing men say though?

It's because when the tone is all men are at best creeps, worst rapists, they want to clarify that "hang on, I'm not like that.. please know I'm not like that" before the conversation continues

When you remove the opportunity to at least clarify you hope you aren't being lumped in with monsters, you feel like you're being accused yourself, so you then get defensive and aren't open to hearing the rest of what is said

But the conversation isn't about YOU. It's disrespectful to make it about you. You're not choosing what you're going to wear when you walk to the gas station after dark based on "Is this shirt loose enough as to not invite someone to talk to me?" you don't walk a different route back to your apartment or pop into a shop because that person has been following you for a few blocks and yeah, maybe they are just walking the same direction as you but better safe than sorry.

No one thinks all men are rapists. If someone is comfortable enough to have a convo with you about it they probably don't think you're a rapist. But there's no reason to try to make the conversation about you.

(Sorry for including comics and infographics. I've just found that it seems to often help people understand things.)

 

[JoleneBrody]

You know why that's the first thing men say though?

It's because when the tone is all men are at best creeps, worst rapists, they want to clarify that "hang on, I'm not like that.. please know I'm not like that" before the conversation continues

When you remove the opportunity to at least clarify you hope you aren't being lumped in with monsters, you feel like you're being accused yourself, so you then get defensive and aren't open to hearing the rest of what is said

Then stop taking other peoples experiences so personally when they had nothing to do with you?

There is some immature hateful "feminist" bullshit out there, Tumblr is a cess pool... but the fact is that it IS a problem in society that DOES need to be addressed even if YOU personally don't harrass or rape women.

 

[MFCGod]

But the conversation isn't about YOU.

If someone titled a post, "The Problem With Cam Girls" and go on to say how evil they are (for whatever reason) are you not going to want to say "wowww hold on buddy, that's not me"

It's normal not to want to feel lumped in with a certain behavior you yourself are disgusted with, and you do get lumped in with it when people use a label that you fall under.

 

[kylexy]

If you believe that men and women are equal, then you are a feminist. Represent feminism (which should not have anything to do with being anti-men) with sanity in the face of extremism. Allowing extremists to define a movement is not fair.

The extremists are the ones who are seen and heard, so therefore they are the ones who define the movement, as sad as it might be.

 

[SexySteph]

If someone titled a post, "The Problem With Cam Girls" and go on to say how evil they are (for whatever reason) are you not going to want to say "wowww hold on buddy, that's not me"

It's normal not to want to feel lumped in with a certain behavior you yourself are disgusted with, and you do get lumped in with it when people use a label that you fall under.

If it was a HUGE problem that was absolutely rampant among camgirls and treated as entirely acceptable, then no, I wouldn't interject. If 1 in 5 men experienced whatever negative thing that these camgirls were doing, if society acted like it was the victims fault, if whatever the camgirls were doing was ruining people's lives, if a majority of people were acting like the victims were making it up then no, I would not argue with the victims and say "but not all camgirls".

Rape culture is a HUGE problem and is ridiculously widespread. It's widespread enough that it's a societal problem. And interrupting with "not all men" is ignoring the issue and trying to make it about yourself.

 

[JoleneBrody]

If someone titled a post, "The Problem With Cam Girls" and go on to say how evil they are (for whatever reason) are you not going to want to say "wowww hold on buddy, that's not me"

It's normal not to want to feel lumped in with a certain behavior you yourself are disgusted with, and you do get lumped in with it when people use a label that you fall under.

Neither of the tweets you posted said anything about all men as a generalization but somehow you still took it that way. Even the second one specifically referred only to 'boys who don't date feminists"

I can understand why men get upset about the generalizations, or if someone tweeted ALL MEN ARE RAPISTS but... at least in your examples they didn't... and you still took it that way. Why?

 

[MFCGod]

Neither of the tweets you posted said anything about all men as a generalization but somehow you still took it that way. Even the second one specifically referred only to 'boys who don't date feminists"?

One said "I should of taken advantage like I was taught to do" like that's a normal thing for boys to be taught in our culture :| that's mental to me, that's nothing like my experience of life

The other said she is scared of every man she see's basically, which makes you want to say "please know I'm not like that" but then you get the "you can't use that excuse!"

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

You know why that's the first thing men say though?

It's because when the tone is all men are at best creeps, worst rapists, they want to clarify that "hang on, I'm not like that.. please know I'm not like that" before the conversation continues

When you remove the opportunity to at least clarify you hope you aren't being lumped in with monsters, you feel like you're being accused yourself, so you then get defensive and aren't open to hearing the rest of what is said

It's really hard to tell tone on the internet, particularly when people are ranting like this but I completely understand what you mean. Some people do have a tone about things that makes you want to defend yourself.

I think we have all had encounters where we were being lumped in with people we didn't approve of (people nowhere near as horrible as rapists) and felt the need to clarify and make it known that we are not that kind of person.

Men need to listen to the facts about rape and the culture we live in but I think it's silly to expect men to never feel attacked when they see and hear so many statements like this. If the news, your friends, your social media feeds, etc were all filled with quotes and articles about all the horrible thing your gender does it would be hard not to take it personally and start to feel a sense of shame for something you have never done.

In the conversation about rape culture do men need to listen to what women have to say? Yes. When it comes to communicating about rape culture, should women listen to how good men feel? Yes.

ETA: Oh, I thought you meant in one on one personal encounters, not these tweets that made you want to clarify yourself. I think maybe there is something specific about you that causes you to be triggered in some way when you see statements like that and that's perfectly okay. I just wouldn't follow people who posted these kinds of things frequently if I were you. I see a lot of women talk about the way they were raised and how it related to rape culture and it bothers me too because it wasn't my experience. It's okay to have things bother us

 

[MFCGod]

If it was a HUGE problem that was absolutely rampant among camgirls and treated as entirely acceptable.

I don't know what country you are from, I can only talk about my experience in England - anything to do with sex crime is looked at as pure evil, monstrous, absolutely abhorrent

 

[mynameisbob84]

I wrote some stuff about "not all men" that tied in to rape culture on mah blog after I got in to a semi-argument with a feminist comedian on Twitter and felt silly after the fact. Tis somewhat relevant, innit...

https://popcultureponderings.wordpress.com/2014/09/06/355/