Trayvon Martin

[Nordling]

I suspect the media used the mugshot of Zimmerman because:

a) drama sells papers and that picture is going to cause more drama
b) they can
c) it shows he has a history of violence

Not doubting that a news source would do that, but in this case, they didn't have to have that sort of motive. When a new story breaks, everyone in the media wants to be on top of it and use whatever photos are available. Zimmerman was a NOBODY prior to this murder, so what photo would be the only photo readily available? One suppled by the police...a file photo in the public domain.

 

[Nordling]

Maybe the Sentinal modified the image to remove the finger so it could be posted in the newspaper, I dunno. The fact is, that's the one he used on his Twitter account. I posted it to correct the error from whoever it was in the underwear flipping people off. It's human nature to try and find out what we don't know in cases like this, at least it is for me. I suspected right from the beginning there had to be something to give the LEOs pause than what the media was saying at the time. I've also said numerous times it was a terrible, totally unnecessary tragedy and commended Trayvon's parents for being so rational amidst all this chaos. I also posted the one with Trayvon showing his gold teeth because it raises questions how an unemployed teenager can afford tattoos and several gold capped teeth. The media only shows, and still does, his 12 year old pic the vast majority of the time, which is quite different from the 6'3" man he grew into. No disrespect is meant, I just want the truth and justice like everyone else. I'm just not falling for the totally one sided media BS.

I can dig it. I believe you're an honest person, and don't always agree with you, I think you mean to be honest in this issue. But out of respect, wouldn't it be better to not go out of our way to show photos from questionable sources that go out of their way to put the victim in a bad light? There are recent photos that don't concentrate on Trayvon showing his "kid side" or attempt to make normal kid behavior into something sinister. Better:

or

 

[Bocefish]

I suspect the media used the mugshot of Zimmerman because:

a) drama sells papers and that picture is going to cause more drama
b) they can
c) it shows he has a history of violence

Not doubting that a news source would do that, but in this case, they didn't have to have that sort of motive. When a new story breaks, everyone in the media wants to be on top of it and use whatever photos are available. Zimmerman was a NOBODY prior to this murder, so what photo would be the only photo readily available? One suppled by the police...a file photo in the public domain.

Why does the media still use the cute image of Tray as a 12 year old boy? There used to be a time when the media's job was to report the news as factual and unbiased as possible, not to create it however they see fit to sell more papers.

As far as Zimmerman's history of violence:

George Zimmerman was arrested for “resisting arrest with violence” for arguing with an officer while a friend was being arrested. Both were drunk and Zimmerman was protesting his friend’s arrest. The charge was reduced to “without violence” and subsequently waived after he completed an alcohol education program.

George Zimmerman was having a messy breakup with a girlfriend, who accused him of domestic violence. He also accused her of the same, and both got restraining orders against each other. There were no charges.

Don't trust the media!

 

[Nordling]

Of course not. We've been over this a hundred times: remain skeptical, no matter what the source.

 

[Nordling]

"There used to be a time when the media's job was to report the news as factual and unbiased as possible, not to create it however they see fit to sell more papers."

When exactly was this? It's always been the job of JOURNALISTS to do exactly that, and it's no different now. The trouble is, most news sources are nowadays owned by huge corporations whose main interest is the old bottom line. But this is not new; read about Yellow Journalism and William Randolph Hearst. The power-hungry character in Citizen Kane was partly based on Hearst.

If you want a "return" to honest journalism being the rule rather than the exception, then we need to break up the huge corporations, and maybe change the nature of corporations, at least those which claim to be NEWS.

 

[Jupiter551]

Why does the media still use the cute image of Tray as a 12 year old boy? There used to be a time when the media's job was to report the news as factual and unbiased as possible, not to create it however they see fit to sell more papers.

My guess is to highlight the fact that he was a minor, an unarmed minor, and frankly yes - the media does play on certain emotions etc, but hell there's enough prejudice and fear about adult black men that showing him as a kid is about the only way a certain percentage of people are ever going to realise that he was one.

 

[Bocefish]

Why does the media still use the cute image of Tray as a 12 year old boy? There used to be a time when the media's job was to report the news as factual and unbiased as possible, not to create it however they see fit to sell more papers.

My guess is to highlight the fact that he was a minor, an unarmed minor, and frankly yes - the media does play on certain emotions etc, but hell there's enough prejudice and fear about adult black men that showing him as a kid is about the only way a certain percentage of people are ever going to realise that he was one.

So it would have been totally unfair to post a a recent picture of a 6'3" male because he was a 17 year old minor? Gimme a break! There's been 57 SCHOOL aged children murdered since school started this year in Chicago. Most of them were by gangs. I'm sure you'd look at a 6'3" black male wearing a hoodie in the dark like a minor too if you were in his shoes.

 

[BustyJules]

He was across the street tho, Not even at my building. If it were my car, I would of chased him down and shot him if he took an ounce of a step toward me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here - in this scenario, you see someone across the street looking "suspicious" and you "chase them down"; if they then walk towards you, you feel jusitified shooting them?

No. Guy was across the street, breaking into another person's car. Me and my fiance got the .45 and .40 and stood outside on the phone with 911. IF he would of walked towards us in a threatening way or came near our cars, we were prepared to raise our weapons, then if he CONTINUED coming at me or my fiance I woulda put 2 in his chest and 1 in his skull.

I bet if it was their son/brother/nephew/cousin/grandson who was gunned down, they (the Zimmerman defenders) would be singing a totally different tune.

I am a zimmerman defender and my mother was murdered back in 2005. Wanna know what happened? My mother was sitting inside her house, 2 guys were outside, one stood as a lookout and the other guy went into my mother's house, put a .22 up to her temple and shot her in the head. They caught the shooter that very night, had his bloody clothes and gun and he got 10 fucking years in prison. No wait, He actually got 7 but got another 3 years for gun specifications for previously shooting an elderly man in the head.

He got involuntary manslaughter due to a plea bargain that NOBODY informed us of until we heard it in court that day. After I gave my victim impact statement and begged the judge not to give him so little time (I was 16), the judge rolled his eyes at me and as I exited the court room, the murderer was sitting on the bench with the other jailers waiting to be transported back across the street. He looked at me and said "You know your mom fucking deserved it right, bitch".

Don't tell me about lack of justice, I've experienced it first hand. Nobody marched for my mom, nobody protested the courts, nobody gave a shit. So I'll be damned if I'm gonna boohoo over some 17 year old that was shot after he attacked the man. There are more innocent people killed every day and nobody gives a flying fuck about them.

 

[Bocefish]

With all my heart, I wish that never happened to you or anyone else. There are no words to help ease your pain. With all due respect, there is slim chance at justice in this case. We know nowhere near the facts there were in your case.

 

[Harvrath]

That mugshot looking photo is a mugshot I think.

Which is from 7 years ago. The media used the mugshot photo because they already consider him guilty.

He is guilty of shooting someone. He is also guilty of incredibly poor judgment, by stalking a young teen who according to Zimmerman's defenders put a big hurt on him while drinking ice tea and eating skittles. His defenders keep post pictures of his head as well like it proves something, besides the fact they are judging Trayvon guilty of something with NO evidence of wrong doing. If Zimmerman did attack him then under Florida law he was allowed to defend himself without fleeing, but the pro-zimmers never want to acknowledge that there is no evidence Trayvon is at fault in this, unless you count the words of the gunman's friends and associates.

Even the police report that Zimmerman was actually injured.

Now Trayvon's autopsy and toxicology reports will tell us a hell of a lot more than mere speculation.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Sure sounds like you're hoping that this kid is some drugged up gangbanger that deserved to get got.

 

[Jupiter551]

I read that, but nowhere in the blurb do they explain how the lighting changed. It is almost as if someone took a hand shooting the bird from one picture and placed it on another. But that would be impossible.

Depends on the light source, if he's sitting in front of his computer maybe he went from a dark screen to a light one in between shots, or flicked on a lamp. Impossible to know, but it's not unfeasible that the lighting changed somehow between shots. Like you said though...giving the bird doesn't make him a bad man.

 

[Bocefish]

Why does the media still use the cute image of Tray as a 12 year old boy? There used to be a time when the media's job was to report the news as factual and unbiased as possible, not to create it however they see fit to sell more papers.

My guess is to highlight the fact that he was a minor, an unarmed minor, and frankly yes - the media does play on certain emotions etc, but hell there's enough prejudice and fear about adult black men that showing him as a kid is about the only way a certain percentage of people are ever going to realise that he was one.

So it would have been totally unfair to post a a recent picture of a 6'3" male because he was a 17 year old minor? Gimme a break! There's been 57 SCHOOL aged children murdered since school started this year in Chicago. Most of them were by gangs. I'm sure you'd look at a 6'3" black male wearing a hoodie in the dark like a minor too if you were in his shoes.

No response?

 

[Jupiter551]

He was across the street tho, Not even at my building. If it were my car, I would of chased him down and shot him if he took an ounce of a step toward me.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here - in this scenario, you see someone across the street looking "suspicious" and you "chase them down"; if they then walk towards you, you feel jusitified shooting them?

No. Guy was across the street, breaking into another person's car. Me and my fiance got the .45 and .40 and stood outside on the phone with 911. IF he would of walked towards us in a threatening way or came near our cars, we were prepared to raise our weapons, then if he CONTINUED coming at me or my fiance I woulda put 2 in his chest and 1 in his skull.

I bet if it was their son/brother/nephew/cousin/grandson who was gunned down, they (the Zimmerman defenders) would be singing a totally different tune.

I am a zimmerman defender and my mother was murdered back in 2005. Wanna know what happened? My mother was sitting inside her house, 2 guys were outside, one stood as a lookout and the other guy went into my mother's house, put a .22 up to her temple and shot her in the head. They caught the shooter that very night, had his bloody clothes and gun and he got 10 fucking years in prison. No wait, He actually got 7 but got another 3 years for gun specifications for previously shooting an elderly man in the head.

He got involuntary manslaughter due to a plea bargain that NOBODY informed us of until we heard it in court that day. After I gave my victim impact statement and begged the judge not to give him so little time (I was 16), the judge rolled his eyes at me and as I exited the court room, the murderer was sitting on the bench with the other jailers waiting to be transported back across the street. He looked at me and said "You know your mom fucking deserved it right, bitch".

Don't tell me about lack of justice, I've experienced it first hand. Nobody marched for my mom, nobody protested the courts, nobody gave a shit. So I'll be damned if I'm gonna boohoo over some 17 year old that was shot after he attacked the man. There are more innocent people killed every day and nobody gives a flying fuck about them.

I'm also really sorry this happened to her, and that the asshole got a light sentence - he should be in jail for life imo. With all respect though, Trayvon didn't kill her, and it's not his fault that his death got media attention - or his family's. If the law ends up saying Zimmerman was justified so be it, but all homocides need to be investigated, whether the perpetrator considers it justified killing or not.

 

[Jupiter551]

So it would have been totally unfair to post a a recent picture of a 6'3" male because he was a 17 year old minor? Gimme a break! There's been 57 SCHOOL aged children murdered since school started this year in Chicago. Most of them were by gangs. I'm sure you'd look at a 6'3" black male wearing a hoodie in the dark like a minor too if you were in his shoes.

No response?

Oh! My apologies for the tardiness of my response good sir :violin:

Earlier I read he was 6'2", maybe he kept growing after death.

I have nothing to say regarding school children in chicago, but Tray never had a criminal record, was never (to anyone's knowledge) involved in anything violent at school or outside it, and doesn't deserve to be portrayed as a gangster just because he took facebook pics trying to look cool for the girls. Unlike Zimmerman, he's not here to defend his image or his personality.

Equally, I doubt Zimmerman approached Tray with a big cheesy grin and a freshly pressed suit like he was going to a job interview, like the second of the two pictures of him going around.

 

[Bocefish]

So it would have been totally unfair to post a a recent picture of a 6'3" male because he was a 17 year old minor? Gimme a break! There's been 57 SCHOOL aged children murdered since school started this year in Chicago. Most of them were by gangs. I'm sure you'd look at a 6'3" black male wearing a hoodie in the dark like a minor too if you were in his shoes.

No response?

Oh! My apologies for the tardiness of my response good sir :violin:

Earlier I read he was 6'2", maybe he kept growing after death.

I have nothing to say regarding school children in chicago, but Tray never had a criminal record, was never (to anyone's knowledge) involved in anything violent at school or outside it, and doesn't deserve to be portrayed as a gangster just because he took facebook pics trying to look cool for the girls. Unlike Zimmerman, he's not here to defend his image or his personality.

Equally, I doubt Zimmerman approached Tray with a big cheesy grin and a freshly pressed suit like he was going to a job interview, like the second of the two pictures of him going around.

In other words, you don't KNOW shit but are happy to go along sheepily without any FACTS.

 

[Harvrath]

Sure sounds like you're hoping that this kid is some drugged up gangbanger that deserved to get got.

No, I think they both acted stupidly. Just that Trayvon went outside he law, Zimmerman didn't and Trayvon put Zimmerman in such a state that Zimmerman was in 'A Reasonable Fear for his Life'. Even the Lead Investigator says Trayvon was outside the law by wanting to charge Zimmerman under 782.11 'Unnecessary Killing to Prevent Unlawful Act'.

 

[sorrowfool]

Sure sounds like you're hoping that this kid is some drugged up gangbanger that deserved to get got.

No, I think they both acted stupidly. Just that Trayvon went outside he law, Zimmerman didn't and Trayvon put Zimmerman in such a state that Zimmerman was in 'A Reasonable Fear for his Life'. Even the Lead Investigator says Trayvon was outside the law by wanting to charge Zimmerman under 782.11 'Unnecessary Killing to Prevent Unlawful Act'.

On the flip side, if Zimmerman had stayed away from Trayvon like he was instructed by the 911 operator, and let the police handle it, none of this would have happened.

I've been stopped by police on more than a few occasions (6ft black male, usually dressed in all black with my hoodie) and they've always been straight. They stop me, ask for ID, ask if they can search me, search me, run my ID, then send me on my way. Keep in mind this is in the middle of the night in a predominately white upper class neighborhood, but I don't give them shit, and they don't give me shit (well, besides the whole stopping me for no reason part). If the police had stopped Trayvon, the likely scenario would have been similar, and when they found out he was staying in the area, they likely would have let him go.

If I'm walking around and some guy in plain clothes is following me around, I'm gonna wanna know what's up. Of course, if I stop and confront them (in any sort of manner) they're likely gonna feel "threatened." Anyways, it seems that Zimmerman stopped Trayvon, which (using their defense) would have given Trayvon reason to feel he needed to defend himself.

 

[Bocefish]

If you were an unknown visitor in a GATED community with every right to be there and somebody was following you in vehicle on a dark, rainy night.... what would you do?

 

[Nordling]

If you were an unknown visitor in a GATED community with every right to be there and somebody was following you in vehicle on a dark, rainy night.... what would you do?

Keep walking, and if I was on the phone with my gf and she told me to run, I'd probably just start walking faster. When the stranger got out of his SUV and started walking or running to catch up, I might start running... If he then caught up to me, I would ask, "why are you following me?" If he then, after saying in an angry voice, "what are you doing here" then knocked the phone headpiece off my head, I'd probably think: "oh, man, this looks like IT...I'd better prepare to defen....................BANG!"

Just one of a nearly infinite number of scenarios but I'm guessing, from what we DO know, that it's pretty close.

 

[Shaun__]

Even the police report that Zimmerman was actually injured.

Even the police report that Trayvon Martin was actually killed.

Now Trayvon's autopsy and toxicology reports will tell us a hell of a lot more than mere speculation.

Now Zimmerman's alcohol and drug test would have told us a lot, if anyone had done one I mean.

 

[Jupiter551]

If you were an unknown visitor in a GATED community with every right to be there and somebody was following you in vehicle on a dark, rainy night.... what would you do?

Keep walking, possibly cut into an area he can't drive, if he then got out and got close enough to call out and asked me "what am I doing here?" ('here' being a public street) I'd probably call back "just walking, why the hell are you following me?"

If, on the other hand he'd called out that he was the local neighbourhood watch dude...I would be more polite and relieved he wasn't some weirdo. Same reason cops call out that they're the police, so in case you can't see them properly or it's dark or their in plain clothes you don't think it's some psycho with a gun.

I think the reaction of waiting and attacking the follower while they're leaving is pretty preposterous - but keep in mind when zimmerman told that story to the police he didn't know that Trayvon was 17, or visiting his dad, and had a clean record. He probably assumed as he had all along that he was up to no good and therefore it was believable he'd attack.

From the police calls and the events that unfolded it seems to me that Zimmerman had made up his mind about Trayvon - he assumed he was up to no good and assumed he was armed and dangerous, and acted accordingly, and most people wouldn't have assumed any of those things. Zimmerman stated "these guys always get away" to the dispatcher, before getting out and following him. Not only has he grouped Trayvon in his mind with some group of criminals who always escapes justice, but he was determined that this one wouldn't get away. Further, if they did assume any of those things they wouldnt have followed him. I'm sure Zimmerman was hyper aware of his gun, he even said to the dispatcher that Tray had something in his hands, or had his hand in his waistband (ie basically hinting that he looks armed) and that he was definitely on "drugs or something".

So in Zimmerman's fucked-up train of thought this kid holding skittles and iced tea, talking to his girlfriend and walking to his dad's house has turned into a criminal in the area to commit crime, possibly armed, possibly drugged up and unpredictable, and determined not to let him escape justice. When you look at it that way, it wouldn't have taken much to set him off - he felt threatened before he ever got out of the car.

 

[Anonymous]

I am a zimmerman defender and my mother was murdered back in 2005. My mother was sitting inside her house, 2 guys were outside, one stood as a lookout and the other guy went into my mother's house, put a .22 up to her temple and shot her in the head. They caught the shooter that very night, had his bloody clothes and gun and he got 10 fucking years in prison. No wait, He actually got 7 but got another 3 years for gun specifications for previously shooting an elderly man in the head.

He got involuntary manslaughter due to a plea bargain that NOBODY informed us of until we heard it in court that day. After I gave my victim impact statement and begged the judge not to give him so little time (I was 16), the judge rolled his eyes at me and as I exited the court room, the murderer was sitting on the bench with the other jailers waiting to be transported back across the street. He looked at me and said "You know your mom fucking deserved it right, bitch".

Don't tell me about lack of justice, I've experienced it first hand. Nobody marched for my mom, nobody protested the courts, nobody gave a shit. So I'll be damned if I'm gonna boohoo over some 17 year old that was shot after he attacked the man. There are more innocent people killed every day and nobody gives a flying fuck about them.

I am sorry to hear about your mom's murder, but what does that have to do with Trayvon? Trayvon isn't at fault for what happened to your mom.....

 

[Anonymous]

On the flip side, if Zimmerman had stayed away from Trayvon like he was instructed by the 911 operator, and let the police handle it, none of this would have happened.

Exactly. You're gonna call 911 but then do the OPPOSITE of what the operator tells you to do. Fucking stupid.....

 

[BullFrogBlues]

So in Zimmerman's fucked-up train of thought this kid holding skittles and iced tea, talking to his girlfriend and walking to his dad's house has turned into a criminal in the area to commit crime, possibly armed, possibly drugged up and unpredictable, and determined not to let him escape justice. When you look at it that way, it wouldn't have taken much to set him off - he felt threatened before he ever got out of the car.

My bolding! Trayvon was walking in a gated area where he had a complete right too, only Zimmerman had decided he was not meant to be there.

 

[Nordling]

So much corruption in this case. Justice may never see the light of day.

EXCLUSIVE: Trayvon Martin Family Attorney Raises Questions About The Role Of George Zimmerman’s Father
By Judd Legum on Apr 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm

In an interview with ThinkProgress, Martin family attorney Natalie Jackson raised serious questions about the role of George Zimmerman’s father, Robert Zimmerman, in the case.

Specifically, Jackson pointed to Robert Zimmerman’s presence during police questioning of his son. The New York Times reported the following:

The day after the shooting, George Zimmerman, according to his father, returned with at least three police officers to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, back to that grassy area where plaintive cries for help had gone unanswered. The investigators, accompanied by someone with a video camera, wanted him to re-enact the events of the night when the two strangers had stood their ground.

Mr. Zimmerman’s father watched from nearby.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...n-family-attorney-questions-robert-zimmerman/

 

[Harvrath]

So much corruption in this case. Justice may never see the light of day.

EXCLUSIVE: Trayvon Martin Family Attorney Raises Questions About The Role Of George Zimmerman’s Father
By Judd Legum on Apr 3, 2012 at 3:40 pm

In an interview with ThinkProgress, Martin family attorney Natalie Jackson raised serious questions about the role of George Zimmerman’s father, Robert Zimmerman, in the case.

Specifically, Jackson pointed to Robert Zimmerman’s presence during police questioning of his son. The New York Times reported the following:

The day after the shooting, George Zimmerman, according to his father, returned with at least three police officers to the Retreat at Twin Lakes, back to that grassy area where plaintive cries for help had gone unanswered. The investigators, accompanied by someone with a video camera, wanted him to re-enact the events of the night when the two strangers had stood their ground.

Mr. Zimmerman’s father watched from nearby.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/20...n-family-attorney-questions-robert-zimmerman/

Which is a nothing salad smothered in nothing dressing.

 

[Nordling]

:lol: I'm glad simply asserting something doesn't make it true. Corruption has played a role in this case since day one, and this just shows how much worse we'll see it really is.

I'd still like to know why certain individuals on this board seem to favor the killer.

 

[SoTxBob]

"The Trayvon Martin case has exposed some of the media's worst tendencies--selective editing, rushing to judgment, stoking anger for ratings and page views--"

...much the same as here.... You folks have given this thing a life of its own. Innocent men, boys, women, girls, children of every age, race, religious affiliation and location are wrongly killed every single day of every single year. Those deaths are all tragedy's yet you seldom hear more than a day or 2 mention of them. This kid is no different than those others yet you'd think the existence of the world itself is hinged on this one incident from the way its being hashed and rehashed ad nauseam. Once the investigation is complete, and all the facts are known and analyzed, then perhaps a clear picture will be visible. The truly sad thing is that no matter the source, the race card always seems to be "reason" for something.

:violence-duel: :violence-stickwhack: :violence-swords:

 

[Jupiter551]

No one really knows what happened. I am unsure how there are "supporters" of Zimmerman when the truth and the facts of the case are not even determined. The only fact is Trayvon was not up to no good, had every right to be there and shouldn't have been pursued in the first place. What happened before he was shot is really speculation at this point.

I agree entirely