Token totals showing glitch.

[Mila_]

Puffin, are those averages of what the Miss MFC #20 makes per year?

 

[Puffin]

Puffin, are those averages of what the Miss MFC #20 makes per year?

No, those figures are for a month. For example, on average it took 569946 tokens to be Miss MFC #20 for a month in 2014.

 

[Mila_]

Honestly all I can do is wtf this.

It's completely relevant. If someone exposed your gross income and felt the need to comment to you about how much you just must have would you not then correct them that the amount shown is NOT take home? Most people would. Duh. So like I said it does bear mentioning I feel. Especially after some of the nasty stuff I've seen about it (Twitter.) The fact that it's not discretionary seems lost on a lot of morons. If you're not one of them that's great and you can just ignore that post then.

I also never said it was any different from self employed people elsewhere did I? No. So again if you know that it's great and you can skip what I said but the people who don't realize that and read it now know different. And to correct you supplies are bought by most every single month. Makeup, outfits, toys, batteries, lotion, baby oil, and much more are all done every month by me.

And lastly I didn't pretend a thing about cam girls having it harder. Where you for that from I don't know. It was a breakdown of things a lot of people don't think of when it comes to running a cam business at home. Why that seems to upset you so much idk but oh well. It's reality.

Not to be nasty but honestly.. the costs of camming are minimal. Sex toys might be expensive but it isn't like you need hundreds of dildos. Some of us are even non-nude so no dildos required at all.

Some camgirls ship a lot of things and those can be expensive, but all the expenses really are a drop in the bucket compared to what you make when you end a month in the top 20 (hey, I am not shitting on anyone, I have ranked in the top 20 three times)

If you measure the expenses of all independent contractors and freelance workers, camming is one of the cheapest ones. You don't need to buy construction materials like a contractor would. You don't need to hire anybody to help you out if you don't want to. There are no advertisement costs, at all (if you have wits) and tech investments (like laptops and webcam) are probably made once a year if you are clumsy like me and fry your webcams and keyboards all the time.

Same goes for taxes. Sure, as independent contractors some pay up to 30%, and I am guessing some very popular camgirls in France could pay even more. But then some camgirls are incorporated and pay only 11% and it is very easy to evade taxes altogether but that is not very kosher and not what we are discussing anyway.

All in all, I must say that camming is very profitable and the reason for it has nothing to do with our expenses. If camming is profitable it is because so few girls are willing to do it. There are many risks involved and some end up having to cut all contact with parents/friends/society as a whole. This is the main reason why it pays so well. Because not many people are willing to do it so it is scarce, it is a commodity.

I don't feel the need to defend what camgirls make. If you work hard, are smart, and charismatic you can live a very comfortable life. This is the reason we chose this job instead of a 9 to 5.

 

[Magnolia]

I just want to point this out on the public thread:

Did you notice the HUGE drop off between #1 and #20, or even #1 and #100? That continues all the way down past what you could see. YES, the top girls are making bank, but they are the 1%. If there is that much drop off in just 100 ranks, imagine what the girls around #1000 are making, for a lot of people that's barely living wage. Then think of how many AMAZING models are ranking even below that.

While these figures will put off a lot of tippers thinking, "Oh, all these models are making so much, why tip?" I hope some realize that only the top 100 make this kind of money. Most girls are hardly making minimum wage, and that doesn't include all the hours they put in off cam. Also, you should tip for content and entertainment. Tip because you enjoy the girl regardless of what they make!

Side note: Some of the top girls were worried people would be mad at them for how much they make, I'm over here worried that people would see how embarrassingly little I make in comparison and poke fun at me (thank goodness I wasn't affected by this directly).

 

[Teagan]

Not to be nasty but honestly.. the costs of camming are minimal. Sex toys might be expensive but it isn't like you need hundreds of dildos. Some of us are even non-nude so no dildos required at all.

Some camgirls ship a lot of things and those can be expensive, but all the expenses really are a drop in the bucket compared to what you make when you end a month in the top 20 (hey, I am not shitting on anyone, I have ranked in the top 20 three times)

If you measure the expenses of all independent contractors and freelance workers, camming is one of the cheapest ones. You don't need to buy construction materials like a contractor would. You don't need to hire anybody to help you out if you don't want to. There are no advertisement costs, at all (if you have wits) and tech investments (like laptops and webcam) are probably made once a year if you are clumsy like me and fry your webcams and keyboards all the time.

Same goes for taxes. Sure, as independent contractors some pay up to 30%, and I am guessing some very popular camgirls in France could pay even more. But then some camgirls are incorporated and pay only 11% and it is very easy to evade taxes altogether but that is not very kosher and not what we are discussing anyway.

All in all, I must say that camming is very profitable and the reason for it has nothing to do with our expenses. If camming is profitable it is because so few girls are willing to do it. There are many risks involved and some end up having to cut all contact with parents/friends/society as a whole. This is the main reason why it pays so well. Because not many people are willing to do it so it is scarce, it is a commodity.

I don't feel the need to defend what camgirls make. If you work hard, are smart, and charismatic you can live a very comfortable life. This is the reason we chose this job instead of a 9 to 5.

Honestly if your costs are minimal that's great but frankly non nude is not the majority. A lot of girls put tons of money back into their business and while it may be negotiable for some it's not for others.

 

[Mila_]

Honestly if your costs are minimal that's great but frankly non nude is not the majority. A lot of girls put tons of money back into their business and while it may be negotiable for some it's not for others.

When you are making over $12k a month (the figures we are discussing) buying new dildos is really not a big deal. If you don't make this kind of money you don't rank in top 100.

 

[fandango]

Honestly all I can do is wtf this.

It's completely relevant. If someone exposed your gross income and felt the need to comment to you about how much you just must have would you not then correct them that the amount shown is NOT take home? Most people would. Duh. So like I said it does bear mentioning I feel. Especially after some of the nasty stuff I've seen about it (Twitter.) The fact that it's not discretionary seems lost on a lot of morons. If you're not one of them that's great and you can just ignore that post then.

I also never said it was any different from self employed people elsewhere did I? No. So again if you know that it's great and you can skip what I said but the people who don't realize that and read it now know different. And to correct you supplies are bought by most every single month. Makeup, outfits, toys, batteries, lotion, baby oil, and much more are all done every month by me.

And lastly I didn't pretend a thing about cam girls having it harder. Where you for that from I don't know. It was a breakdown of things a lot of people don't think of when it comes to running a cam business at home. Why that seems to upset you so much idk but oh well. It's reality.

I can promise you Im very far from upset.

Anyway I haven't seen what you have seen on twitter I was replying purely to what you had said in your post. It's basic common sense that no ones gross income is the same as what they end up with as disposible income so it never even occured to me that people would think otherwise. The tone from your post made it sound like you were in some way trying to downplay what was earned or justify it against some life expenses that everyone in the world has to pay on their incomes and made it sound as if you were implying these were unique to cam models.

 

[Alisa]

Did you notice the HUGE drop off between #1 and #20, or even #1 and #100? That continues all the way down past what you could see. YES, the top girls are making bank, but they are the 1%. If there is that much drop off in just 100 ranks, imagine what the girls around #1000 are making, for a lot of people that's barely living wage. Then think of how many AMAZING models are ranking even below that.

This, so much.
Today, an angry member messaged me saying he saw the glitch and he knows how much we make and won't be tipping anymore (me I guess) because we obviously don't need it. Dude, I am ranked #1500 right now. Me and thousands of other girls make a little fracture of what a girl at #250 makes. It is unfair to punish anybody, but it's specially unfair to punish those lower on the ladder. But I guess that's life and that's what happens when info like this gets revealed. I'd love them to reveal #s for under 250 too, just to put things into perspective.

Btw I am not jealous or whatever, I am just mad because this glitch will make lower ranked models suffer way more than the top, and we weren't even involved in the glitch.

 

[weirdbr]

Today, an angry member messaged me saying he saw the glitch and he knows how much we make and won't be tipping anymore (me I guess) because we obviously don't need it.

I think there will be some of this type of reaction, but I expect it will come primarily from freeloaders - they now have another 'excuse' for being cheap. But anyone else looking who has enough brain cells and is willing to look at the full data (or even just the top 100) will realise how much models outside of the top 250 are making, which is (at best) in line with the average income of a person working a traditional 9-5 job in other industries.

 

[Teagan]

I can promise you Im very far from upset.

Anyway I haven't seen what you have seen on twitter I was replying purely to what you had said in your post. It's basic common sense that no ones gross income is the same as what they end up with as disposible income so it never even occured to me that people would think otherwise. The tone from your post made it sound like you were in some way trying to downplay what was earned or justify it against some life expenses that everyone in the world has to pay on their incomes and made it sound as if you were implying these were unique to cam models.

You assign tone when you read things so I can't help that but no I didn't imply anything. I was very clear and concise and never said anything was model specific.

 

[WickedTouch]

IMO I think this is a storm in a teacup and will blow over real fast. From my perspective as a member, finding out that the top girls earn good bank is more history than news. Realistically, it can't be a surprise that some girls make more than the majority... can it?

When I joined MFC in 2010, it was not a secret. MFC girls were openly discussing their earnings on Stripperweb back then. I think for most tippers it changes nothing. The only people who will get bent out of shape and get all sniffy about it will be those members that inhabit the lounge... most of whom never tip anyway!

MFC screwed up... hell yeah, but nobody died... the earth is still turning... life goes on.

 

[Puffin]

Interesting tidbit
All models in top 100 for January 2015 got more then the #1 model got in January 2009!

 

[LaceyRoyce]

I might regret posting this.. but just for some reality on expenses..

I'm not arguing that top 100 models make excellent money. Nor am I saying they shouldn't or implying any judgement on that whatsoever.

But I feel like saying 'buying dildoes & tech equipment" is not a big deal makes it sound like camming expenses dont rack up..

So i went to my books, and grabbed my profit and loss statements and since we are talking about money lets be real..

EDITED: i decided to not include the detailed breakdown.. however if you'd like it just pm me and don't be an asshole about it.


Combined it was over 40,000 dollars in business expenses. I don't spend that much every year, and it does not include taxes I paid. I made investments in things that have carried me through other years .. but I'm sorry, that amount did add up for me, and while not every camgirl invests the amount of money I do into my business, It's a legitimate expense and a lot more than just buying dildoes.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

I was actually guessing the opposite. The people who didn't understand how much the top girls were making already probably won't understand that 95% of the girls on the site aren't doing anywhere near those amounts. Realistically, this should blow over pretty quickly anyway.

Ugh i didn't even think about it reading that way but it seems like you're right and that makes me sad

 

[Mila_]

I might regret posting this.. but just for some reality on expenses..

I'm not arguing that top 100 models make excellent money. Nor am I saying they shouldn't or implying any judgement on that whatsoever.

But I feel like saying 'buying dildoes & tech equipment" is not a big deal makes it sound like camming expenses dont rack up..

So i went to my books, and grabbed my profit and loss statements and since we are talking about money lets be real.. I've rounded these #s to the nearest 100

I'm going to be VERY real about the money I spent and made in 2013 in this next bit, so I hope no one thinks I'm doing a bad thing. I feel like some reality is important here.

In 2013 (a year where i made top 100 several times)
I bought a $2000 fuck machine with my income from MFC.
I spent around $10,400 in hotels, flights, shoots, convention costs, the camgirl mansion, and food while travelling.
I paid my personal assistant for 6 months around 6000 dollars.
I paid models who worked with me a total of $4600
I raffled off prizes (including plane tickets, electronics, and other mailed goods) of over $3500
MY llc donated over $6000 - donations while a personal thing for me are also important to my image on camera as someone who is charitable.
I paid my accountant and bookeeper $2200
I bought a laptop worth $1200
I bought camera worth $400
I paid $700 in STD testing related to shoots & shows
I spent around $3300 on studio incidentals - dildoes, costumes, a couch for my camroom, office supplies, programs for my comptuer etc.

Combined, that's over 40,000 dollars in business expenses. I don't spend that much every year, and it does not include taxes I paid. I made investments in things that have carried me through other years .. but I'm sorry, that amount did add up for me, and while not every camgirl invests the amount of money I do into my business, It's a legitimate expense and a lot more than just buying dildoes.

And before taxes and expenses, just so you can put that in perspective that year I made just over $130,000.

Perhaps saving is not a priority to you. That is okay. I have finished top 100 about 20 times and my cam-related expenses have never reached $1000 per month... I do not buy fuck machines, granted, but professional cameras are just as expensive (I have a markIII not because it is a necessity but because I enjoy photography too) but I know it is a one time expense, not a recurring one, so it basically amounts to about $50 a month after a couple of years. Most of us camgirls don't spend as much as you do.

The personal assistant is unnecesary, as is the bookeeper when you get rid of all the excess spending, employees, etc, and while traveling around might be nice because of the exposure, it certainly is not necessary. In my opinion these are all splurges, and while you can totally have fun with the job and use the profit for traveling, etc, you shouldn't make it seem like your level of spending is ordinary or necessary to be successful or that this kind of spending comes with the territory (it doesn't)

 

[LaceyRoyce]

Perhaps saving is not a priority to you. That is okay. I have finished top 100 about 20 times and my cam-related expenses have never reached $1000 per month... I do not buy fuck machines, granted, but professional cameras are just as expensive (I have a markIII not because it is a necessity but because I enjoy photography too) but I know it is a one time expense, not a recurring one, so it basically amounts to about $50 a month after a couple of years. Most of us camgirls don't spend as much as you do.

The personal assistant is unnecesary, as is the bookeeper when you get rid of all the excess spending, employees, etc, and while traveling around might be nice because of the exposure, it certainly is not necessary. In my opinion these are all splurges, and while you can totally have fun with the job and use the profit for traveling, etc, you shouldn't make it seem like your level of spending is ordinary or necessary to be successful or that this kind of spending comes with the territory (it doesn't)

I'm not saying every model spends this much, or that they need to. I'm just trying to explain that expenses for some businesses can rack up. I'm trying to provide balance and say it can vary..widely. Yours obviously isn't that high, and some models like me have high expenses.

Traveling was partially a splurge - I could have gone cheaper on many things. Everything else was absolutely a necessary investment that paid off for me in the long time. Honestly, I feel like telling me what I have invested in my biz without knowing the details of my skill set, my hours on cam, or anything else about my biz is silly.

My PA created organization where i had none. He took hours out of my day which I spent on camming and increased my income. When he was no longer generating extra income for me, I stopped using him.

My accountant and bookeeper - If I had attempted to do this myself, with my level of understanding of #s, taxes and the american tax system I would have ended up in serious financial trouble. I do NOT have the skill set required for this, and hiring a bookeeper is the best thing i've EVER done.
Every other investment - while maybe not necessary to make a liveable wage on mfc, greatly boosted my profits in the long term. So yeah, they were necessary for me.

Saving is very important to me. I saved a huge portion of my profits that year.

 

[jujoji]

1) This data leak merely reinforces my belief that models in the top 20 don't need my tokens. And models who never make top 250 deserve my tokens a hell of a lot more.

2)Telling me how much your costs total over the life of your camming career is a disingenuous and misleading piece of data. If you've been camming for six years it's a world of difference than if you'd been camming for only one. Telling me how much it costs you per month or per year is more useful for our purposes. Or tell me the total how much you've made over the same period and let me figure out from there. There are both maximum and minimum reasonable limits to such areas as rent, food, savings, and capital investment.

3) I'm officially not taking the sob story from models in top 20 who go on twitter and whine about rent, expenses, food costs, etc. Ditto for room counts, people not chatting, freeloaders. If you can swing 500k tokens with all that; good for you.

4) I listen to so many deserving* models who never make top 250, who struggle to break 2k-3k cam-score, who have to pull teeth to get guys** to talk, who on a good night have 20-40 people (including guests and basics) in the room. These ladies still receive my sympathy and what tokens I have.

5) My one bit of sympathy for top tier models is that with this release there is the possibility of people targeting them for money/investment scams, stalking, kidnap, or robbery.

 

[StellaPark]

Models whining for fairness and equality on cam sites are being silly and ignorant. You already have fairness and equality. Everyone starts in the same place, and if you're not happy with where you end up, that's on you. In fact, camming is as fair and equal an industry as I can think of - the top girls aren't earning more because their parents left them a fortune and gave them a head start. No one gains an edge because they know the right person in some company, or because they went to some fancy school.

The sites are incredibly fair - you know the rules going in, and they're simple. You convince customers to pay you for entertainment. The reason we don't all make the same amount is because we aren't all equally entertaining or convincing.

Like every other sales profession, girls who are better at the job earn more money. Don't like the competition? Well, maybe this isn't for you.

Being a web cam model makes you a model (this may seem obvious, but it often seems like many of you forget this). You are in a constant beauty pageant situation. It's competitive and you will be judged based on many surface level attributes. The entertainment world has never been fair when it comes to who makes it and who doesn't. Hard work isn't a guarantee of success - it merely increases the odds of it. You don't deserve anything just for showing up.

Members coming out saying they won't tip high-earning models actually makes some sense. A lot of men on social camming sites get off on the feeling that they're helping girls who may be struggling. They want to be the savior. It's quite a lot harder to maintain that fantasy if they just learned their favorite girls make more than they do.

This whole situation situation sucks. Having your earning exposed and judged by the world? It's bad for everyone's business - successful or not.

 

[Puffin]

Found this on twitter. As many are sure to misread it, figures are in AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS.

Also a link showing the 101-250 postions for October as they stood yesterday.

 

[SoTxBob]

I honestly don't see what the big flap is... I've been on mfc for 6-7 years and as was said, monthly incomes used to be openly talked about. Recently the figures of the top battle were also spoken of that only confirmed again what anyone with a brain and a calculator can figure out in 30 seconds if they want to.
As with any job, you will have the spenders and those that try to "impress with possessions," and those that save. Certain camgirls have in the past seen the need to churn thru new cars, high $$ apartments, lavish vacations and god knows what else, only to have the tax man finally catch up and drop the proverbial hammer. In their defense, the ignorance of youth is most likely responsible for a lot of that. It can also be compared to the majority of lottery winners going broke after a few years.
indeed it was unfortunate to have your "income pants" pulled down in public like that. No biggie... the sooner you drop it and the 'my expenses are more' stuff, the sooner it will go away. Cheers~

 

[MFCGod]

For me as a member, I find it semi-interesting but a lot of top girls have been open with what they make, so it's no surprise

Nothing changes for me, if I like someone I will tip them, if I want something they're offering I will tip them, doesn't really make a difference what they make.

 

[JubalCobb]

"Sure, we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot, too"
Patrick Ewing

 

[anon_imgone]

Keep in mind the money made is not just pure profit and fun money. I'm not saying the top isn't making a good living but it's not all just to keep.

For one supplies are not cheap. Lingerie, toys, etc all have to keep being bought and to keep being relevant. So take out quiet a bit to reinvest. No not all girls do this but the majority do to keep putting on great and different shows.

Second taxes. Grab 30% of that and give it to the government. Plus a few hundred for a cpa. This one is not a choice but mandatory and takes a huge cut off of what people think we make. So remember when a girl makes a large amount big amounts of it are already spoken for.

Then of course take more cuts for food, rent, utilities, insurance, etc. Kids and/or pets too. Upgrades or replacements on laptops, lighting, and webcams as well. It adds up quick. Again yes the top girls are making good amounts but it's way less once you take expenses and basic living costs out of it and no one seems to keep it in mind. They just see some amount or guess how much and figure it's enough when they have no clue really what someone else's cost of living is.

I would agree with you but this is their income per MONTH. If you are in the top 100 making at least 15K a month and can't live VERY comfortably then I think something is wrong. You don't have to buy lingerie every week/month, and I am sure there are guys more than willing to send gift cards or grab stuff off wishlists for that kind of stuff. You might need a laptop once every few years which is only 1-2K.

Honestly the maintenance for camming is very low.

 

[MrM0jo]

After being in many rooms where the model is begging, whining, cajoling, threatening to leave, and basically complaining that no one is tipping - and then seeing that she made more in a month than I do all year. Yeah it's going to affect my tipping. I guess the new rule of thumb is that if she's in the top #220, there's no need to tip; she's already on her way to financial stability and doesn't need my help or really anyone else's. And for those girls in the top 10 who continue to spur their regulars on to tip, well that's just pure greed and it's disgusting.

 

[BobbyB]

It appears the owner of MFC has a healthy monthly income.....Ok there are huge bandwith costs for video but I guess there are still a couple of dollars left.....

 

[Tilly]

After being in many rooms where the model is begging, whining, cajoling, threatening to leave, and basically complaining that no one is tipping - and then seeing that she made more in a month than I do all year. Yeah it's going to affect my tipping. I guess the new rule of thumb is that if she's in the top #220, there's no need to tip; she's already on her way to financial stability and doesn't need my help or really anyone else's. And for those girls in the top 10 who continue to spur their regulars on to tip, well that's just pure greed and it's disgusting.

Top 220? What a strange number. You didn't even see the figures for the 200s, so I'm not sure how you can make that assumption. Also kind of rude to assume that she doesn't need your help or anyone else's just because of her rank. She is still online putting in the hours, doing the work on and off cam, and putting herself at a certain amount of risk even working in this industry. Plenty of camgirls are paying off college debts, medical bills, as well as supporting themselves and other people in their family. Just because you assume she is making more money than you think she needs doesn't mean that she is keeping it all to buy a fancy purse or some bullshit like that. I'm not defending models that make more in a month than I do all year, but you have to realize that everyone's situation is different. There are lots of reasons that lead girls to do this type of work, or strive as hard as some do to reach the top ranks. Most girls probably aren't doing it out of greed as much as they are out of necessity.

Is MFC strictly a charity case for you? It shouldn't be. But if you find yourself thinking that a girl isn't deserving of your money just because she already made some, then perhaps you would be better off perusing the models on page two or three. There's over 1,000 girls online at any given time. You have plenty of opportunities to help someone who you feel might really need it. But if you enjoy a girl who's already ranked relatively high, does that mean you shouldn't tip her? That's like saying your favorite restaurant is making too much money, so even though you like to eat there, you won't anymore because they're doing too well.

 

[MrM0jo]

Oops, meant the top 100.

 

[Magnolia]

To those who are saying you won't tip the top models anymore:
I sure do hope you're not planning on sitting in their rooms freeloading. I hope you take your money to another girl that you enjoy instead. OR you can continue tipping whoever you find entertaining and makes good content regardless of their income. Freeloading off ANY girl or tipping/not tipping them just based on what they make is disgusting and shows where your standards are.

TIP FOR CONTENT AND ENTERTAINMENT, REGARDLESS OF RANK​

 

[JoleneBrody]

For me as a member, I find it semi-interesting but a lot of top girls have been open with what they make, so it's no surprise

Nothing changes for me, if I like someone I will tip them, if I want something they're offering I will tip them, doesn't really make a difference what they make.

God speeks and a rational way to live a happy life emerges. Praise be.

It's pretty simple. Spend money on things you like and don't spend money on things you don't like.

 

[JoleneBrody]

That's like saying your favorite restaurant is making too much money, so even though you like to eat there, you won't anymore because they're doing too well.

All while sitting outside asking each person who leaves if you can have their leftovers?