The Black Lives Matters thread.

[Ms_Diane]

Here is a place to post about the Black Lives Matters movement.
There was a discussion happening in another thread and we decided this topic deserved it's own thread.

There is so much to potentially talk about I don't even know where to start, so I am just going to make a list of topics that already came up in the other conversation and add some things that are related to the discussion. It is just a place to start.

Police violence and racism
Systemic racism
Videos of police violence
Protestors, protesting - why it matters, how it works, how the media portrays it, etc.
Media coverage and its biases
Stop and frisk
Police reform and oversight
Prison reform
Why police officers are not charged/convicted for shooting people
The implications of "Us vs Them"
Civil rights
Micro-aggressions
Being an ally
Why #AllLivesMatter is not a thing
Gay pride, police presence and BLM

Add to this list if there's something you want to talk about that I didn't mention, or just start posting things you are thinking about that are related to BLM.

 

[AmberCutie]

I don't have a whole lot to say about the matter, but just wanted to share this image and a link to a reddit thread about it in case it furthers any inspiration of discussion about the topic:

Here's the title of the reddit thread and the top comment:



(sorry for the weird layout of this post, didn't realize how reddit threads automatically formatted themselves...)

 

[Guy]

I went to a BLM meeting in my home city. Unfortunately, I was only able to stay for 20 minutes.

 

[Ms_Diane]

I don't have a whole lot to say about the matter, but just wanted to share this image and a link to a reddit thread about it in case it furthers any inspiration of discussion about the topic:

Amber, can you clarify? Did you post this because talking about violence within black communities is relevant or not relevant? Are you agreeing with the sentiment of the person on reddit who posted about how "black on black crimes are not the focus" of BLM?

 

[AmberCutie]

Amber, can you clarify? Did you post this because talking about violence within black communities is relevant or not relevant? Are you agreeing with the sentiment of the person on reddit who posted about how "black on black crimes are not the focus" of BLM?

I'm simply trying to broaden the scope of discussion. I don't normally post direct opinions on matters of this magnitude because as the owner of ACF I don't want to sway/dissuade people from posting their thoughts.

I guess I'd say it's relevant.

 

[Nordling]

A calm and sensible set of facts:

 

[Mila_]

 

[Ms_Diane]

To be honest, I don't really think people are gonna watch a video that is 52 minutes long.

If there's ideas in there that you want to talk about, it's probably better to just talk about them.

or post something shorter and let us know why you are posting it?

 

[LuckySmiles]

Oh hey I wasn't going to post in the other thread but since there's a brand spanking new one I'll share what I was going to...

And since you talk about the movement's founders, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometione, the co-founders of the movement speak often in interviews about one of their most revered ideological gurus: Assata Shakur, on the FBI's most wanted list for six different accounts, including several murders, and for the killing cops. She fled to Cuba where she was given refuge because she is a communist. She never served her sentence.

Long before the recent police deaths I checked the Black Lives Matter own webpage to see some information. There's a part where the founders each state their one biggest inspiration, Assata Shakur was picked by Cullors. The second I saw that I was like... holy shit.

I wouldn't expect everyone in 2016 to be familiar with Assata Shakur a.k.a. Joanne Chesimard instantly, but the name jumped out at me.

I can't speak for the founders on their intentions with something like that, whether it's to be edgy or gain attention. I don't think that supporting BLM automatically means you think this woman's a hero. I don't expect most people to even know who she is. Although, when I just went back to the site she's even quoted on the get involved page.

But to me, a movement wanting to be peaceful in response to police issues, while openly glorifying a convicted cop killer/proud leader of the Black Liberation Army is irresponsible at minimum.

I agree with the idea that you shouldn't have to pick sides. But you don't have to be racist to criticize BLM. It's possible to support black people without supporting this organization, many blacks speak out against BLM for the same reasons.

I fully understand why people want to support it, but I can also care about black people without this organization. There's a lot of, "support the BLM movement or you're racist" kind of thing going on which is ridiculous.

To touch on something @JoleneBrody brought up about widespread racism not being that long ago, the same can be said for memories of the Black Liberation Army and the targeting police killings of the 1970's.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/23/n...k-police-reopen-old-wounds-from-70s.html?_r=0

I'm sure none of those officers working during this time are still on the job, but don't doubt they're still mothers, fathers, and grandparents of some that do today.

In light of the recent targeted police killings,and perpetrators claiming motivation by the movement, it's understandable that many are afraid of history repeating itself, and having race relations taking bigger steps backwards as a result.

 

[Nordling]

To be honest, I don't really think people are gonna watch a video that is 52 minutes long.

If there's ideas in there that you want to talk about, it's probably better to just talk about them.

or post something shorter and let us know why you are posting it?

Agree. Just the title alone puts me off that video...plus why do I care what a follower of Ayn Rand thinks? I watched about ten minutes of it, and realized he was dissecting the Treyvon Martin story to an extent that he could push it in any direction that followed his own biases.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

I wish I knew more. I try to be as educated as I can but it's difficult because I do feel that most news is slanted one way or the other. People post, broadcast, and talk about issues with the intention of us forming our opinions around it and that scares me because none of it is truth, none of it. You're either there to see it and live it or you aren't.

Videos of police violence - How you can think the police officer is in the right in so many of these videos is something my heart just can't comprehend. I'm glad that these videos exist because we would be absolutely nowhere without them.

Protestors, protesting - why it matters, how it works, how the media portrays it, etc - Each media source portrays it differently. Either the protestors are violent and angry or perfect angels and neither is the case. It seems in every protest that I have watched footage of I have seen both protestors and police officers behaving poorly at times. I personally haven't seen a clear view of either party being overly aggressive. I think that the inconvenience the protests bring and the magnitude is 100% necessary and doesn't make the protest any less peaceful.

Prison reform - A foundation piece to all of these issues. Let's make some space by letting people in possession of drugs go and sending criminals charged with sex crimes to the electric chair. Well not that extreme but nonviolent criminals don't need to spend their lives in jail. Someone can spend more time in jail for having some pot in their pocket than for having some child pornography on their computer. That is intentional and not much sickens me more.

Why police officers are not charged/convicted for shooting people - They are heroes and we believe that certain people are untouchable. I think it's a naivety that perhaps comes from wanting to feel safe. We don't convict these people because it's too scary to think they may be guilty. As citizens, we want to believe there is a certain uniform you put on that makes you perfect, that makes it so we can trust you. We think that to support people we have to support them absolutely no matter what. I think it could be compared to rape within the military. It's an issue, it doesn't mean people in the military are bad or rapists, it means that some are and somewhere in our minds we just can't seem to seperate that one person in a group of good people can be evil.

The implications of "Us vs Them" - Implications? The world we are currently living in.

Being an ally - I wish I knew how.

Why #AllLivesMatter is not a thing - Because it's a given. No one pesters me when I do cancer or autism walks. When I talk about certain disabilities I have, no one tells me that other disabilities also matter. When we raise money for the rainforest, for an endangered species no one exclaims but what about the ocean? What about this animal? If you can't understand that black lives matter doesn't mean that white lives don't then you little one need a diaper change and a nappy nap.

Overall I'm not sure I support the movement specifically. I believe that protests need to happen and police brutality is an issue that needs tackling but just from what I have read from the leaders, some of it just sounds like people going out of their way to be as radical as possible when it isn't helpful or necessary and that it's only separating people further. I wouldn't feel comfortable going to a blm meeting at this point. So much (I follow tweets and videos of protestors for my info) just makes me feel like I would be unwanted and told to fuck off. Mob mentality is a thing and while I in no way think the movement is a mob I wonder if some similar problems can arise from it? It feels like a club, it feels like us vs them, I feel for the first time in my life that by existing I'm an enemy. I can't claim to know what black people go through, how they feel right now, what they are trying to accomplish and what any thought processes might be. I only know that I feel that things are more divided than ever and I would think that's the opposite of what they would want.

So I'm against systematic racism, casual racism, endless media bias and police brutality.

#BLM specifically, I don't feel I have the ability to be educated enough to make a decision on that. It sucks but I would rather consider myself uneducated than say I know exactly what I'm talking about just because I watched the news.

Also I think a confusion is that SO many people support #blm because of what it says and the statement, of course I support that. I think issues comes up when you look at the website, the founders, the thoughts of those people. It seems to me that #blm wasn't meant to just mean that, it was meant to be the catchphrase of a movement. A lot of celebs and normal people started tweeting it because duh of course black lives matter without realizing it was a group, not a statement.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

Re: Police because I have more thoughts. Someone told my daughter once "you can always trust a police officer, if you ever have any problem you go to a police officer". Usually when people say dumb things to my child I'll talk to her about it later but this time I stepped in and said something like "Oh hunny that's not true, mommy will talk to you about it when we get home." Black and white thinking is dangerous. Promising a child that they are safe with anyone who has a certain job title be it police officer, reverend, teacher, is dangerous and irresponsible. When I talked to my daughter later I didn't say that police officers were bad. I said that most are good people who want to help you but if you don't feel safe talking to them then don't. I just told her to follow her instincts basically and that she never needed to trust someone just because of their uniform. She is too young for the talk of "bad people" but in the future the truth, I'll tell her that cops can rape and kill just like anyone else. The point is my whole insanely liberal family FREAKED that I would disrespect police officers in such a way as to tell my child that she didn't have to talk to one if she didn't want to. It was simply responsible parenting that people would have supported in any other situation but not this one. I think that's a large part of the problem. Respect means something different to 70 year olds than it does to 50 year olds than it does to 20 year olds and so on. I think we are moving toward a world where respect is something more earned and less demanded. Right now it's typical to be expected to respect certain titles and often people think that to respect someone you can't question them. I think that's where a lot of well meaning people get caught up and overly defensive of police officers. To me, if you're a police officer and you don't want people questioning police tactics or brutality then you're a dictator, not someone who is protecting us and therefore deserving of respect.

TL;dr A lot of people think questioning or charging police officers is disrespectful which very quickly pushes them to the far side of not being able to understand where protestors/victims are coming from. It's a gray world and just the issue of respect not being given turns things black and white for a whole lot of people. The problem is that respect means different things to different people.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Following on, we now have #all lives matter, and #blue lives matter ... the first is the same thing for the most part, but the second is a far sharper response.

Police don't take chances with their own lives, nor should they. I would further add that being racist would put these blue lives at more risk, by ignoring those you miss as a threat or antagonizing those who are less of a threat. Each incident that escalates to a certain level needs to be assessed case by case. There are for sure cultural biases and these should not be ignored, because escalation can have fatal consequences. This is a big part of why consequences are so much worse when you have cross cultural interaction. Training and experience should correct most of the bias, but never all. I also believe that police actually need to come from the area they are policing, it makes a massive difference.

Remember the movie Evolution, this series of quotes came to mind:
"You gotta know how to talk to the white man."
"The white man about to get his ass whupped."
"He's a very sensitive man, the white man. Doesn't like to be yelled at."

 

[DFT]

Stay safe, come home.

Those are the words the friends, colleagues and family of officers leave them with each day. Not "have a great day, hun", not "tell Dale to quit eating the desert from your lunch". Stay safe. Go home. Long before #BLM or Twitter hundreds of thousands of people who swore an oath got ready for their shift each day, knowing they could well be injured or killed. In that is the initial division. What are you thinking about when you go to work?

Black Lives Matter took fire after Ferguson. To me that case being the lead is good in that it was such a media and instant reaction FAIL that it makes a nice test. Officer Wilson was attacked after trying polite policing, one of the most investigated clean shoots in the history of policing and still the chants based on rumors of the day remain.

There have been many questionable killings by police since and before. Even as one who supports police along with other first responders I don't assume they're in the right, but don't condemn them until all the facts are in. (surprise, there are lots of cops in prison. It really happens) Before you decide on an individual case, find out everything about it.

 

[Mila_]

To be honest, I don't really think people are gonna watch a video that is 52 minutes long.

If there's ideas in there that you want to talk about, it's probably better to just talk about them.

or post something shorter and let us know why you are posting it?

Agree. Just the title alone puts me off that video...plus why do I care what a follower of Ayn Rand thinks? I watched about ten minutes of it, and realized he was dissecting the Treyvon Martin story to an extent that he could push it in any direction that followed his own biases.

I posted this video because in it Molyneux explains in detail, in a case by case basis all the lies and the campaign of misinformation the mainstream media has been involved with when it comes to reporting about what they claim to be racism, both by the police and by individuals. He really does a great job at revealing how they lie to the people. And it is important to see it because this is what is fueling this anti-cop movement that has claimed the lives of many innocent cops.

The reason this matters is because people in general don't have the time or the capacity to search for the truth all the time. So they rely on media to tell them what is going on. Which means they only see what they media shows them. So if the media tells them they found a pink unicorn in Alaska some might doubt at first, but if they keep repeating this and all outlets tell them the same thing, and their professors at university also repeat it, eventually nobody will doubt there truly is a pink unicorn in Alaska. Only people who actually live in Alaska or who care enough to go there personally will see that it was a lie. It isn't the fault of the people. They are relying on the word and the experience of those they consider to be authorities on the subject. But when the authorities lie and twist the truth they create a new reality, a virtual one, they impose over this one that is very hard to dispel.

I realize it is a long video and not everyone is interested enough to watch it all the way through. That is okay. But some people will watch it and hopefully see a few things that hardly ever get talked about, maybe even take some insights with them. Arguing that 1 hour is too much time to devote to a subject like is a weird statement. Would you say the same thing if I had posted a link to a book on the matter? Reading a book takes several hours but nobody would tell someone not to share a book they find useful simply because "its too much work". If you don't care about this subject enough to devote 1 hour of your time, perhaps you don't care about it at all.

 

[AerynShade]

Having worked closely with police as a public librarian I can say... most the cops I've met are incredibly racist. They'd purposefully escalate situations with non-white passing people. Situations that I'd have been able to handle nonviolently and without much verbal confrontation either.

I think we in the US have a fundamental problem with how the job of police officer is viewed, on both sides. Their roles have shifted so that many of them feel like their job is to have absolute control over every situation. And if someone doesn't "comply" immediately they feel they have the right to take them down with whatever means they feel appropriate. I watched an officer taze a 15/16 year old pregnant girl who he was bringing in for being a runaway. She flipped out once in his car and kicked him, broke something on his car. Like, yeah, she shouldn't have kicked him, that's not helping, but he didn't need to taze her. She wasn't a dangerous person. She was an upset, scared kid. Let her flail around until she tires herself out.
I would deal with somewhat dangerous situations past where I reasonably should have on nights I worked with the asshole cops because I knew they'd make things worse if I called them for help.

On the other hand, I've seen officers take so much abuse and just calmly deal with a situation that would have put me past my breaking point. But in my area, those officers are a minority. I loved working with them though. On nights when the friendly cops worked I knew everything was going to go much more smoothly.

I could write an entire essay on prison reform, but I won't get into all that now. It is all related though. Our whole system is racially biased. From schools to prison. We're a mess.

 

[Ms_Diane]

And it is important to see it because this is what is fueling this anti-cop movement that has claimed the lives of many innocent cops.

The reason this matters is because people in general don't have the time or the capacity to search for the truth all the time. So they rely on media to tell them what is going on. Which means they only see what they media shows them. So if the media tells them they found a pink unicorn in Alaska some might doubt at first, but if they keep repeating this and all outlets tell them the same thing, and their professors at university also repeat it, eventually nobody will doubt there truly is a pink unicorn in Alaska. Only people who actually live in Alaska or who care enough to go there personally will see that it was a lie. It isn't the fault of the people. They are relying on the word and the experience of those they consider to be authorities on the subject. But when the authorities lie and twist the truth they create a new reality, a virtual one, they impose over this one that is very hard to dispel.

I do not think that people who take issue with police violence and systemic racism are anti-cop, or that BLM is in general. I think this is also a case of misrepresentation, just as cops being the bad guys is a misrepresentation. Both sides can be misrepresented. I would like to think that people are media literate enough to be able to distinguish the biases that are inherent in the news. I suggest taking in media from a diverse range of places so that you get a better picture.

If you look at the demands of BLM groups in different places, I think you will find they are anti-cop but generally calling for a reform in how training and oversight occurs.

Toronto BLM for example, have been working on trying to have a dialogue with the police, mayor and premier of Ontario in order to make changes to policies.

Jolene made a really important point when she described how reforms were made in Las Vegas. It can happen and it seems to be working.

I think the ideas you are talking about only entrenches the "Us vs Them" mentality and it's counterproductive.

 

[Mila_]

I watched an officer taze a 15/16 year old pregnant girl who he was bringing in for being a runaway. She flipped out once in his car and kicked him, broke something on his car. Like, yeah, she shouldn't have kicked him, that's not helping, but he didn't need to taze her. She wasn't a dangerous person.

I would say someone who is kicking you is posing a physical danger. Resisting, delaying or interfering with the cop's job is against the law. And even when there are some risks involved when tasing someone with pre-existing conditions, in reality tasing her is a fairly safe way to stun her so she doesn't continue to attack the officer. If you do not want to be tased, you do not attack a cop or break stuff in his car.

 

[LioraVox]

For me, BLM is a movement, a statement and a group. It's a movement to call for change in the systematic racism of this country (and worldwide). It's a statement because the vocal minority do not view black lives as lives, they dont see black people as people. They seem them as animals, thugs, criminals etc. And it's a group, because black people have had enough and we find safety and comfort in being around other people who share our opinion.

BLM was meant to be a peaceful call to change. And just because the founders view Assata Shakur words as inspiriation, does not mean what they want is violence. There are plenty of other people in mainstream media who quote and look up to extremist but that doesn't mean that they themselves are an extremist too.

I also want to note that with any movement that calls for change at the foundation is going to have two sides- the rational, peaceful make nice group and the radical, we will tear it down ourselves. Dr. King and Malcolm X, both men wanted black people to be acknowledged as people and not less than whites. But they were both very different in their actions, and opinions. It gets annoying to see criticism of a whole movement because a sub category has gone with extreme methods. And it's eyeroll worthy to read the criticism that the extremist side is getting. I don't agree with it, I personally wouldn't do it, but I understand it. Because rationally how long should any person tolerate this.. something that is supposed to be over- something "that died in the 70s"- something that some people say doesn't exist. How long could each non-black individual tolerate these feelings before breaking and saying fuck this whole system. I wish people would try to understand the feelings that have led people to act this way, instead of passing judgment and using it as a means to discredit a movement that we desperately need in this country.

I also think police as a whole need to change how they conduct themselves. I think that police officers should come from the community they are served to protect. Not some random dude who grew up in the suburbs of Des Moines(?) is now a police officer in Atlanta. Like those are two different places what happens in Atlanta probably doesn't happen in the suburbs of Des Moines. I think that the brotherly code of police officers need to be cut, because how can you be on the side of change but say nothing and do nothing when your coworker is out of line. Police need to hold themselves and each other accountable. Also, granted it's high stress job..but they chose this, so they should be able to diffuse situations instead of creating them.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I wish I knew more. I try to be as educated as I can but it's difficult because I do feel that most news is slanted one way or the other. People post, broadcast, and talk about issues with the intention of us forming our opinions around it and that scares me because none of it is truth, none of it. You're either there to see it and live it or you aren't.

Videos of police violence - How you can think the police officer is in the right in so many of these videos is something my heart just can't comprehend. I'm glad that these videos exist because we would be absolutely nowhere without them.

Protestors, protesting - why it matters, how it works, how the media portrays it, etc - Each media source portrays it differently. Either the protestors are violent and angry or perfect angels and neither is the case. It seems in every protest that I have watched footage of I have seen both protestors and police officers behaving poorly at times. I personally haven't seen a clear view of either party being overly aggressive. I think that the inconvenience the protests bring and the magnitude is 100% necessary and doesn't make the protest any less peaceful.

Prison reform - A foundation piece to all of these issues. Let's make some space by letting people in possession of drugs go and sending criminals charged with sex crimes to the electric chair. Well not that extreme but nonviolent criminals don't need to spend their lives in jail. Someone can spend more time in jail for having some pot in their pocket than for having some child pornography on their computer. That is intentional and not much sickens me more.

Why police officers are not charged/convicted for shooting people - They are heroes and we believe that certain people are untouchable. I think it's a naivety that perhaps comes from wanting to feel safe. We don't convict these people because it's too scary to think they may be guilty. As citizens, we want to believe there is a certain uniform you put on that makes you perfect, that makes it so we can trust you. We think that to support people we have to support them absolutely no matter what. I think it could be compared to rape within the military. It's an issue, it doesn't mean people in the military are bad or rapists, it means that some are and somewhere in our minds we just can't seem to seperate that one person in a group of good people can be evil.

The implications of "Us vs Them" - Implications? The world we are currently living in.

Being an ally - I wish I knew how.

Why #AllLivesMatter is not a thing - Because it's a given. No one pesters me when I do cancer or autism walks. When I talk about certain disabilities I have, no one tells me that other disabilities also matter. When we raise money for the rainforest, for an endangered species no one exclaims but what about the ocean? What about this animal? If you can't understand that black lives matter doesn't mean that white lives don't then you little one need a diaper change and a nappy nap.

Overall I'm not sure I support the movement specifically. I believe that protests need to happen and police brutality is an issue that needs tackling but just from what I have read from the leaders, some of it just sounds like people going out of their way to be as radical as possible when it isn't helpful or necessary and that it's only separating people further. I wouldn't feel comfortable going to a blm meeting at this point. So much (I follow tweets and videos of protestors for my info) just makes me feel like I would be unwanted and told to fuck off. Mob mentality is a thing and while I in no way think the movement is a mob I wonder if some similar problems can arise from it? It feels like a club, it feels like us vs them, I feel for the first time in my life that by existing I'm an enemy. I can't claim to know what black people go through, how they feel right now, what they are trying to accomplish and what any thought processes might be. I only know that I feel that things are more divided than ever and I would think that's the opposite of what they would want.

So I'm against systematic racism, casual racism, endless media bias and police brutality.

#BLM specifically, I don't feel I have the ability to be educated enough to make a decision on that. It sucks but I would rather consider myself uneducated than say I know exactly what I'm talking about just because I watched the news.

Also I think a confusion is that SO many people support #blm because of what it says and the statement, of course I support that. I think issues comes up when you look at the website, the founders, the thoughts of those people. It seems to me that #blm wasn't meant to just mean that, it was meant to be the catchphrase of a movement. A lot of celebs and normal people started tweeting it because duh of course black lives matter without realizing it was a group, not a statement.

My understanding of BLM is that the Twitter hashtag came first. Then later on after thousands (millions?) of people and celebrities and journalists and other media had used it to show that they believe very simply that a black life is just as important as any other and that police brutality is wrong - despite making up only 15% of the population, more than a quarter of all police shootings involve black people, meaning that black people are 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police despite being a much smaller percentage of the populace - it was then that a group of people started the Black Lives Matter Network, at which point rallies and protests and more militant aspects began to creep in and the quotes and inspirations that can be found on the BLM website cropped up.

So for me, BLM has become this fractured thing where on the one hand, its simply a social movement in which the needless murder of black people at the hands of the people whose job it is to protect them is publicly vilified and those responsible are called upon to face the consequences of their actions... and on the other hand, its a decentralized movement with chapters all over country, some of which subscribe to the notion that fighting discrimination and violence with discrimination and violence is an appropriate response. Maybe the only response.

I think its possible (and even advisable) to not dismiss the movement as a whole - even while being understandably disgusted by the lengths to which certain members have shown to be willing to go in order to be heard - because its core message is so important. Its like someone repeatedly hitting a dog and then one day the dog bites back and instead of looking at why the dog has become violent, we go out of our way to concentrate exclusively on the fact that the dog has now bitten someone. I don't think that's helpful in the slightest.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

There is so much to potentially talk about I don't even know where to start, so I am just going to make a list of topics that already came up in the other conversation and add some things that are related to the discussion. It is just a place to start.

Systemic racism
Media coverage and its biases
The implications of "Us vs Them"
Civil rights
Micro-aggressions
Being an ally

Since these things open up the discussion to things slightly away from just police I thought I'd just post this here.

I didn't go see the new Ghostbusters, not even tempted. But reading through the twitter timeline of Leslie Jones for the past couple days makes me think there's really no hope for this movement in general. There's far too much hatred and racism out there yet. Camgirls think they have to deal with trolls, read her timeline and see what she's been putting up with this weekend. The racist idiots have come out in droves at her, not only tweeting her directly but photoshopping/generating fake tweets of stuff she never said as well trying to make her look bad.

Most of us tend to live in a bubble of political correctness where it doesn't get to this level. But the reality is I think the racist morons far outnumber the rest of us. And given the chance they like rise to the top, just like sewer sludge after a heavy rain.


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[mutantdonut]

I posted this video because in it Molyneux explains in detail, in a case by case basis all the lies and the campaign of misinformation the mainstream media has been involved with when it comes to reporting about what they claim to be racism, both by the police and by individuals. He really does a great job at revealing how they lie to the people. And it is important to see it because this is what is fueling this anti-cop movement that has claimed the lives of many innocent cops.

The reason this matters is because people in general don't have the time or the capacity to search for the truth all the time. So they rely on media to tell them what is going on. Which means they only see what they media shows them. So if the media tells them they found a pink unicorn in Alaska some might doubt at first, but if they keep repeating this and all outlets tell them the same thing, and their professors at university also repeat it, eventually nobody will doubt there truly is a pink unicorn in Alaska. Only people who actually live in Alaska or who care enough to go there personally will see that it was a lie. It isn't the fault of the people. They are relying on the word and the experience of those they consider to be authorities on the subject. But when the authorities lie and twist the truth they create a new reality, a virtual one, they impose over this one that is very hard to dispel.

I realize it is a long video and not everyone is interested enough to watch it all the way through. That is okay. But some people will watch it and hopefully see a few things that hardly ever get talked about, maybe even take some insights with them. Arguing that 1 hour is too much time to devote to a subject like is a weird statement. Would you say the same thing if I had posted a link to a book on the matter? Reading a book takes several hours but nobody would tell someone not to share a book they find useful simply because "its too much work". If you don't care about this subject enough to devote 1 hour of your time, perhaps you don't care about it at all.

These "truths & lies" as you so put it, is only part of the reality in which you choose to see it... Just as how others will choose to see reality differently.
Nothing can be spoken in absolutes

 

[Ms_Diane]

If you look at the demands of BLM groups in different places, I think you will find they are anti-cop but generally calling for a reform in how training and oversight occurs.

oh shit, I meant to say "they are NOT anti-cop" maybe that was obvious? sorry

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

Re: Leslie Jones

This made me so disgusted when I saw it. I completely agree that a lot of us live in bubbles.

I have seen a lot of casual racism, a lot of people who use slurs as just a way of speaking and of course I think it's wrong and I hate it. But then I end up thinking of that as racism which it is but I forget about the larger picture. Because I personally don't see people who truly think black people aren't as good, aren't intelligent, aren't even human. I have never witnessed that myself. I have witnessed a bit of it toward Mexicans but nothing to the severity of me, as a Mexican girl with a Mexican name ever being made fun of or anything like that. It's still wrong but it is to me, trashy and immature, it isn't flat out hatred. I haven't witnessed anyone ever being the victim of pure hatred based on their skin color but it happens, it happens all over and it happens every day. As much as I want to be aware I just can't understand the severity of these things when I have never seen it and I only ever see it online coming from trolls. Seeing her called an ape made me so fucking ill. I cannot believe that people actually use that term.

I always see that beautiful picture of the little boy in the KKK going up and touching the shield of a black police officer. I have seen it dozens of times and every single time I see it I think "wait, they had black police officers then?" and then I remember that the KKK is it's own thing, it wasn't pre civil rights movement. It didn't just disappear and every time I'm reminded of how much this world sucks and how far we actually have to go.

We see the racism in statistics, we see it the way criminals are charged and prisons are ran and it is disgusting. But we are so privileged and we are missing a huge piece of the picture when that's the only thing, or even the vast majority of what we see.

 

[Nordling]

Sometimes an event occurs in the midst of a lot of negatives, that it makes your day...something to love humans about. Good for Wichita!

http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article90247307.html

 

[JoleneBrody]

Many anti-BLM peeps are also supporters of the constitution and specifically big supporters of the 2nd amendment.

I was wondering, if you ( those who fix the above context) are such HUGE supporters of your right to take up arms against your government if you feel you are under attack by said government... Why would you not support the BLM movement? I'm not talking about the shooting of cops, that was murder not self defense... But the movement as a whole using bodies and voices as "arms" to demand change.

The black panthers in the beginning are a great example of the 2nd amendment in action. But... They were terrorists? To clarify I'm talking about the panther roots, how it started and why it started... Before our government attacked them full force for taking care of their community and protecting themselves from the police, as the 2nd amendment gives is right to.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Please excuse typos, I was on my phone and can't edit now... which is basically a statement that should be applied to any post I make haha.

 

[Osmia]

On a positive note, I think racism against blacks in the US has been on a slow decline since the mid-sixties if you look at the country as a whole. That's not to say that it's dwindled into insignificance, just that it's somewhat better than it used to be. I don't doubt that every black person in this country still experiences or observes racism on regular basis, even President Obama. (Parenthetically, the lack of respect for Obama shown by many Republicans has always been shocking to me. There used to be a respect for the office, which would take precedence over one's feelings about the individual. I think this started with Bill Clinton, and continued with George W Bush, and then Obama.)

Maybe there's been an uptick in racism, or at least racial tension, in the last few years, perhaps inflamed by police killings of unarmed black men, the presence of Donald Trump on the political stage, and the economic/social problems of the lower-middle class.

The above is my impression as a white person, for what it's worth.

What I really wanted to say is that the level of polarization (political, racial, social) is reaching levels that should concern everyone, regardless of your political beliefs. People tend to sort themselves into like-minded groups and demonize/caricature those in opposing groups. That polarization sometimes boils over into violence, which begets more violence and more polarization and more dehumanization in response. Those who would engage in retaliatory violence ought to go back and absorb the lessons of MLK and Gandhi. Also read Rene Girard on the role of violence in human societies and religions.

You can't know a person or have friendly relations with them if you're just viewing them from your in-group, or even worse, throwing rocks at them from your group. You can't know them if you're seeing them as a caricature or through a racist/stereotyping lens. Think about that the next time Donald Trump makes some statement that tries to make you feel like the Muslims (generic) are your enemy, or the Mexican immigrants. There are individuals within those groups that may qualify as enemies, but Trump wants you to see group caricatures, which are easier to get indignant and riled up about, because they are depersonalized and abstract.

Personal anecdote: On my daily dog walks, I often pass by a certain house where the cars have NRA stickers, one has a "Taxed Enough Already" (tea) sticker, and more recently, there was a pro-Trump sign. My in-group hackles were raised and I felt a degree of self-satisfaction and contempt. Then, one day he saw me and came out an introduced himself. We talked about dogs, mainly. He had just lost one. We've talked a couple more times. He seems like a normal, likable person, and I could see myself being friends with him. Before we met, to me, he was just an anonymous teabagger, a faceless part of a group that I disliked. Now, he's a real, likable person who happens to have some beliefs that I disagree with. My point is just that if you're seeing a group/race, you're not seeing individual people, and it's much easier to indulge in violence if it's against a faceless group.

 

[LuckySmiles]

I used to agree with how many people think here. I know it's harder to think outside the box when you're afraid it'll seem racist but honestly it's mostly been black people who's points of view have personally changed my mind and the way I see things. Once I was pretty confident in perspectives that were more clearly not racist, my mind was more open to other possibilities.

To me BLM even if isn't anti-cop, is spending more time focusing on the wrong people and issues responsible for problems in black communities. To me, most of the problems in black communities stem from failed government policies and political corruption, and have less to do with racism. Violence within the communities stems from economic problems which go back up to the policies. The cops are on the same level as the community, and since most people can agree that they're more good ones than bad ones, the average cop is doing more to help their community on a daily basis than a lot of other people. When politicians fail communities they tend to throw the police under the bus, they become the scapegoats. This also breeds a lot of resentment within police departments. Of course bad ones should be dealt with accordingly, no one disagrees, and for the most part they are. But even in high profile cases where they're guilty, it often looks more like people who are bad at being cops, and making fatal mistakes, than overt acts of racism.

In police work a natural intimidation/leadership factor, and cool head prevents gun use. (i almost became a cop, because I like helping people, but I could not scare a fly and would have to rely on a gun too much to be safe and had to be honest with myself.)
It's fear that gets people killed on both sides, and it happens to blacks and whites the same. I honestly don't think it has as much to do with racism as people make it out to.

Ok then it's "the system designed to keep black people down" sort of... but again, seems to have more to do with political corruption of power than institutional racism.

I could maybe use Detroit as an example, the city is mostly black residents, mostly black police officers, and mostly black politicians. Corruption is rampant. From police officers dealing drugs, to principles stealing money out of the school system, to the mayors, it's across the board. It's getting better but has been a problem for a long time. There, since race hasn't been much of a factor in many years, it's more apparent that it has less to do with it, and more to do with corruption of power. Many people are aware around there that it has less to do with white people screwing blacks over as much as it is poor leadership. Poor job economy and that whole shebang of course too... it's more complicated than racism.

I don't know... I'm not saying there's no racist people, or racist things never happen, but jumping to conclusions certain problems have more to do with race than they might, prevents discussion towards workable solutions.

Making it the primary focus has been dividing people. To the point where you're like... disagreeing with someone and trying to have a discussion and somebody's like "You're just racist and just don't know it" and that's crazy. The entire conversation gets derailed. Personally, if a white 19 year old who knows nothing about me calls me a racist for an opinion on something they disagree with it becomes like wtf. That's my karma though because I've done it to other people in the past. Maybe that's why it's easy for me to see what's wrong with it.

These are mostly ramblings... just a handful of my thoughts on the issues..I have a million more but it's already so effing long.

Dammit! One more thing! A big concern of problems with the police forces is an increase towards militarized strategies, that have been implemented from the higher ups. Police being less encouraged to use their own human judgement and more to go by such types of policy, isn't necessarily a good thing. Pushing for more federal involvement in local communities can make the problems worse for everybody. It seems a lot of people involved in BLM want more federal involvement in police departments to check corruption, without recognizing that's where a lot of the problems are coming from to begin with.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

@LuckySmiles Very well said Of course racism exists and is a problem but it certainly isn't the only one and our focus on everything being about racism is exactly what keeps open communication from happening. I wish our society was capable of having the more complicated discussions.