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The Black Lives Matters thread.

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On police officer deaths, this is some of the firearm related shootings. This is where police much show extra caution when confronting anyone, and obviously the main circumstance where an officer may be expected to draw their gun. Traffic stops, Domestic violence, and Investigating suspicious persons. The ambush attacks they obviously wouldn't have much chance to draw arms.

Of the 42 firearms-related fatalities in 2015, seven officers were shot and killed during traffic stops, more than any other circumstance of fatal shootings. Six officers were killed in ambush attacks and five officers were slain while investigating suspicious persons. Although classified under various circumstances, the investigation of domestic violence was involved in seven of the 2015 shooting deaths. This is 25 of the 42, overall around 100 police are killed most years in the US.

There are no stats that I found on the race makeup of their killers, obviously to look at that would be inappropriate and misleading.
 
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Eh, don't know how to rate that so thank you for the parts that are helpful.

I can say for myself it's a little annoying that the default is just that clearly I want to be coddled and I want to make sure no one hurts my feelings. I have said racism exists 1000 times so I can only hope that that is directed toward people overall and not me. I'm not crying and acting like a child, I'm saying I'm frustrated and aren't we all? If people can't help but dismiss anyone who gets frustrated then wow what a revolution this will be. I guess I feel like yes, people are willing to tell their story and educate us but we aren't allowed to say "but". To me saying wait a minute doesn't mean I'm disagreeing with you, it means I don't understand and/or want more information on a specific issue but it seems whenever it's said we are written off. But I do get that if your experience is that typically white people are going to disagree with you and then cry about what you have to say how that could turn you off to wanting to talk about it at all. I also realize it may be frustrating that as a black person it's now your job to educate all these people, but it's kind of just a shitty situation all around because who else is going to do it? I don't know. I used to feel like I could talk about things. I have talked to you in the past about a specific issue that I didn't understand. You gave me insight and I really appreciated it. Whatever the case, it seems that currently things are harder to talk about when we really need to be talking about them and that's just so unfortunate. It's not exactly something I'm attempting to discuss further (not that you can't if you want to of course) I just tend to carry on and on when I don't understand something.

I understand that @supermila talks that way and I too find it annoying as hell when people have opinions that they state like facts. I can't typically hold conversations with these kinds of people however, I happen to think that you are someone who talks the same way. For the longest time I wrote off most of what she said but then I took her tone out of it and realized I agree with a lot more of it than I thought I would. So as much as I get that you two clearly would never understand each other for very obvious reasons I actually think the way both of you speak also plays a role. I just think it's interesting that you say something about her triggering you when I see that similarity in you two and I'm sorry if how you feel about her makes that just super offensive. I know it's hard and if you don't want to cool but Mila could get 34987 poop ratings and keep going so while I understand wanting to stick up for this and fight back against everything she says I just think your energies could be put to much better use. When you're not coming off as overly aggressive I think you have a lot of insight to share and your aggressiveness is understandable. Most people probably still find your aggressive posts helpful. I fully admit to being a sensitive person who has a hard time deciphering language that comes off as angry to me.
P.S. Mila, you just seem like someone I don't have to worry about offending and as you have seen I like/agree with you quite a bit so I hope this doesn't come across as some kind of mila shit talking.

And on a completely different note. The image you shared, black lives vs blue lives. That is by far the most hypocritical and eerie thing that I have seen take place during all of this. I don't typically cut people off completely for any beliefs but seeing the amount of people I knew who shared the hell out of bluelivesmatter images after complaining about blacklivesmatter certainly made my acquaintance, friend and family list shrink.

Yea I meant in general. Also I'm fully aware that Mila and I are similar in our passions or in our way of speech. Contrary to how I talk to her, I once admired her. I respect her as a person I just think she misjudges people and only posts things that supports that misjudgement. If I were to say all white people are racist and want to kill black people, and then posted articles and posted stats proving that how would members of this forum feel? Someone here would end up voicing their opinion -so I'm kinda of tired of the negative judgements on me for speaking up. It's unrealistic to think that someone would let that type of stuff slide repeatedly.

I personally am not easily offended, I'm a passionate talker but ive only been offended on this forum, actually in the whole cam community 4 times in the past 3 years. And 3 of these instances involved Mila. And just like I explained before if I have a problem with someone I will address them directly-which I did. So I'm done with it. Sorry if this read harshly but I'm tired and I'm on defense. So yep
 
Yea I meant in general. Also I'm fully aware that Mila and I are similar in our passions or in our way of speech. Contrary to how I talk to her, I once admired her. I respect her as a person I just think she misjudges people and only posts things that supports that misjudgement. If I were to say all white people are racist and want to kill black people, and then posted articles and posted stats proving that how would members of this forum feel? Someone here would end up voicing their opinion -so I'm kinda of tired of the negative judgements on me for speaking up. It's unrealistic to think that someone would let that type of stuff slide repeatedly.

I personally am not easily offended, I'm a passionate talker but ive only been offended on this forum, actually in the whole cam community 4 times in the past 3 years. And 3 of these instances involved Mila. And just like I explained before if I have a problem with someone I will address them directly-which I did. So I'm done with it. Sorry if this read harshly but I'm tired and I'm on defense. So yep

No worries. I don't judge you for speaking up in the least and I'm sorry that some people do. I just don't want you having less energy for us who are open and appreciative of what you have to say because you have wasted energy on her. It's completely your decision and I 100% get not letting things slide. I didn't mean to imply that you should. I was just throwing it out there :)
 
I honestly welcome anyone who wants to talk publicly or privately. Like, idk.. I enjoy talking and learning about race and how life is for different races. And I enjoy sharing my perspective with people who dont experience the same thing. I have never dismissed someone for coming to me like "hey so....I don't get it" and just the other day I was on that side of the table asking how do Asian people experience racism because I wasn't sure I understood what was being said. I'm 100% on team (*cough* Valor*cough*) lets have a critical "try to keep your personal emotions out of it" discussion. Because that's how progress is made. But sometimes... I can't. I'm human, and sometimes I'm comfortable enough in this space to say how I honestly feel regardless of how people will react to it.

But I don't want to take over this thread so... yea. Next person to speak on the mic is.....
 
Okay I know you said you don't want to take over the thread so feel free to ignore or answer later. But to at least change direction, @LioraVox I would be curious to know what being an ally means to you. Both to blm and just to black issues as well. Are there things we should do? Are the things you feel we shouldn't do? I think a lot of us struggle with seeing the problem and just feeling like we have no way to help so I think it'd be a nice public topic if you're up for it :)

Everything I have read says to listen to your black friends but hi I'm in a tiny town in the Midwest and I think one black person lives here. So awareness just is hard for some of us due to all the systematic segregation that has already been discussed.
 
- All people are being killed unjustly. Black people were tired of it and are using their voices to bring light to the matter- which is why BLM was formed. 3 women were tired of hearing about unarmed black people being shot by police & the police weren't held accountable. Any group of people could've voiced their opinions on police brutality but no group of people were ever as loud as BLM.

This is the difference that Mila is pointing out. BLM was formed because we only heard about the black people that are killed in the media. This is a result of selective media coverage. Anyone and everyone who's worked in media is aware of this phenomenon and why it is a problem, that is the knowledge that Mila is sharing. This part is not her opinion, anyone who's ever worked behind the scenes, myself included, knows this happens on a dangerous level.

Nobody got mad about white people dying because nobody covered the white people dying. Nobody finds out about it. People with the power to make that happen decided it wouldn't sell enough papers, or generate enough clicks, or let's hope not something worse(political purposes.) You have to search so hard to even find records of them and then only guess based on last names. There's no pictures. It's not like the editors and news directors are all black, so why are only the black stories covered or considered to have legs? We don't know, but what we do know is it's what's dividing us on these issues.
The names of the police officers, killed in NYC in 2014 by a lone nut in retaliation to Eric Garner and Michael Brown, are not household names.

Many Americans forgot that even happened until the killings in Dallas and Baton Rouge. People don't know the names of the cops killed in Dallas and Baton Rouge of the top of their head and that was this month. Because they are referred mainly by their cities in the media. Because it doesn't receive the same level of media coverage in quite the same manor. And because at this point people are even afraid to offend anyone by bringing them up nearly as much on other platforms.

We don't know why the black killings are being covered the most, but that's why BLM was the first/only group to get mad about it.

And now, when anyone gets mad about anything else, they aren't allowed to, because they're deemed insensitive to BLM. This is a real problem. I'm not discounting the experience of black people, all I am asking is why are these the experiences dominating headlines? It's something happening out of our control.

Because it hurts us all when that happens.

We forget the names of Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu, because they aren't blasted in our face everyday. And at this point what can anyone even do about it? If we start a group to remind people of every dead cop killed unjustly by nutjobs retaliating, how will that go over?? I feel like you can't. It becomes a competition when it shouldn't be. There's an environment now where no one else can get mad about related problems because they're told they're racist, or on the side of the bad guys, even if you're genuinely worried about everybody.

It's not nitpicky to point out Assata Shakur and the BLA. Any other inspirational black person could have been chosen to be named for inspiration in the movement and the one that gets picked, the one that gets quoted, her name is synonymous with cop killing. Why can't that be called out as unnecessary? Mila knows her off the top of her head because Mila knows Communism. I know her off the top of my head because I know NYC history, and race relations there during the time period. I didn't need to google her to prove a point. I'm sure Mila didn't either.

I know it seems like I'm constantly licking her ass lately, but trust me I'm not an ass licker. Anyone who's worked in media has stories up and running from likely 10 different sources at the same time on a single given issue. Anyone with integrity knows how important that is to do. And the more often you do that, the more you can see the disparity in coverage. And when that happens, when the patterns are right in front of you, you want to know the reasons. You want to tell everyone, "but look at this" and it's not to pick a fight, it's to shed light on it, because you look around and no one else is and you don't know why. It's enough to drive you crazy.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But I know my own heart, and these conversations are hard but necessary and just know anything I say on this comes from a place of genuine concern for everybody.
 
I would like to share my perspective as a person of color.Now, I was raised to believe that most of humanity is fucked and there is not much hope in others. We were taught that if you want justice, peace, or goodness than you must fight for it yourself . My family held this belief for centuries and I believe it fits my worldview point. This belief coupled with fighting against oppression allow us to survive in the Americas since the Salem Witch trials. It allow us to fight for our freedom in the Caribbean/Latin America and become free people of color for 3 centuries. My family taught me that race,gender, nationality, and class will matter for the rest of my life. Race, gender, nationality, and class are important to the human experience. However, I was given the tools to fight back against people who want to oppressed me for who or what I am.

First, I was stop by the police over tons of times over the years. I knew it was because of racial bias and sexism usually. Why you might ask? Because they never told me why they stopped me a lot of the times. Then they would let me go. How would I act? I would just be stone faced and become "obedient"..Sometimes, these officers would make gross sexual and racial comments to me. After some of these encounters; I would file formal complains with their departments, district attorneys, and Kamala Harris. I went after some of the rotten officers' badges because I was not going to let them treat me like some second class citizen.If I was doing some crime; then I would understand. However, it was some sort of bs excuses. I do not view myself as a victim but as someone who fought for her rights much like her ancestors. That being said....most of interactions with cops have been good.

Second, I believe Black Lives Matters is very peace overall but people fail to see the difference between them and black extremist groups. Black Lives Matters want justice for blacks who were killed with police brutality. People do not see the difference a lot of times because they want to paint BLM with a dark bush. Black extremist groups are like neo-nazis because they believe in the racial purity and racial superiority . They hate cops much like those on neo-nazi sites hate cops. However, they are not BLM at all. Those snipers followed very extremist pan-African groups for the most part. These groups are much like Aryan brotherhood or the white knights.
Why should BLM be label as a terrorist group and not KKK? But I guess if it fit some sort of anti-black agenda that the media comes up with? As far as black on black crime, that is a myth. All races commit crimes against their own kind. Why should blacks be singled out? I mean we do not talk about white on white crime? If that was the case, wouldn't WW1 and WW2 be the biggest white on white crimes of all time? No one wants to talk about the Bosnian war and how many white people committed hate crimes against other white people. Yet, blacks kill each other and we must be single out as violent. This is hypocrisy at it finest and everyone knows it.
 
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AriaFaye,
I know that I am not Liora Vox but I would like to answer your question about being an ally. Frankly, I would say that acknowledging racism and trying to fight against would be a lovely start. Maybe taking a virtual volunteership for civil rights organization? Maybe read about the freedom riders during the civil rights era? Many whites joined in the fight to end segregation during that era. Or read about the abolitionists and see if their fight can apply in your life. Just take small steps at first. Remember this is a ongoing process in being an ally to any group.:cat:


Okay I know you said you don't want to take over the thread so feel free to ignore or answer later. But to at least change direction, @LioraVox I would be curious to know what being an ally means to you. Both to blm and just to black issues as well. Are there things we should do? Are the things you feel we shouldn't do? I think a lot of us struggle with seeing the problem and just feeling like we have no way to help so I think it'd be a nice public topic if you're up for it :)

Everything I have read says to listen to your black friends but hi I'm in a tiny town in the Midwest and I think one black person lives here. So awareness just is hard for some of us due to all the systematic segregation that has already been discussed.
 
@AriaFaye I know my tone is often not conciliatory and I dont excuse myself for my opinions ever, which is something people tend to expect when you voice a differing opinion. So that can be difficult to swallow. But I do make a difference when I voice an opinion about something that is purely subjective, versus when I tell facts. It just happens that I try to withold forming an opinion until I have seen evidence. And I do change it when I find conflicting information and realize I was wrong because I care about the truth.

So when Trayvon Martin case happened I felt awful, and with every subsequent case of police killing black people I did believe it was targeted, and race motivated and it made me feel terrible. I thought I was living in a country that allowed this to happen. But then I took the time to do some research about it and listen to the dissenting voices and I was so relieved to find out what truly was going on was that the media didnt cover all the other ethnicities. The videos were just as heart breaking, but now I knew for a fact there wasnt a racial motivation behind.

And the reaction many people have towards this, when you show them the evidence is so telling. Instead of being relieved and happy that it was a mistake, that they are not being targeted by police to be killed, they get angry at the person showing them the truth. They get outraged and attack. It is so mind boggling to me. I imagine in some cases could be because they feel like they have gone too far already defending BLM and what they stand for and backtracking would mean accepting too many mistakes. Others could get angry because they feel by revealing the truth you are taking away their protagonism.

But as a jewish person if newspapers and news channels told me german cops were targetting and killing jews and they showed horrible videos about it I would believe them. And I would be scared and sad and extremely worried especially if I was living in Germany. But if someone told me or if I found out it was all a lie and selective reporting by the media I would be happy, relieved, and mad at the media. Not at the person telling me the truth.

And the fact that they arent targetting black people doesnt mean there are biases in other areas. They do stop and frisk black people more often and they act more aggressively towards blacks. That much has been studied and proven. But there is a difference between that and saying white cops are killing blacks "excecution style" like I heard many times in the news. And surely none of this warrants elevating cop killers to pedestals like BLM does, calling for the killing of cops, or banning white people from their events, etc.
 
I usually end up disagreeing with you on a lot of things. But I have to agree with this. I don't know what data you posted prior (didn't search for it) but here's a recent study that shows there's no race bias in police involved shooting. If anything they might be shooting blacks less than Caucasians.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7343/new-study-no-racial-bias-police-involved-shootings-james-barrett

Here's another article on Fryer's study (Fryer is black, BTW):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ngs-of-whites-and-blacks-is-so-controversial/

Regardless of how one feels about the study's conclusions, reading the article will give you a good sense of the methodological difficulties in doing studies like this. Here's an excerpt:

Here's how Fryer came to his conclusions. He began with the data on all 507 officer-involved shootings that happened in Houston the last 15 years. About 52 percent of those shootings involved a black suspect, while 14 percent involved a non-black, non-Hispanic suspect.

Since Houston is 24 percent black, the fact that more than half of the police shootings involved black people might seem like a sign of racially biased policing. Yet it is also possible that Houston police more frequently encounter black residents in dangerous situations.

To account for this possibility, Fryer analyzed encounters with police in which the suspect was arrested on a charge that indicates a potentially dangerous situation. He analyzed arrests in which officers accused the suspect of one of the following charges:
  • Aggravated assault on a peace officer
  • Attempted capital murder of a peace officer
  • Resisting arrest
  • Evading arrest
  • Interfering in an arrest
About 58 percent of such arrests involved black suspects, while about 12 percent of these arrests involved non-black, non-Hispanic suspects. Those statistics are pretty similar to the statistics from the officer-involved shootings. So, while it’s true that more than half of police shootings involved a black suspect — from the perspective of the Houston police, more than half of the dangerous situations they encountered also involved black suspects.

This approach is not perfect, of course, and Fryer readily points out that his research has limitations.
 
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@DonaDiabla Thanks for your input! I think if anyone of color has anything to say regarding what they want white people to do or think would help they should share because a lot of us want to :) Thanks for sharing a few starting off points.

Re: Slanted media. Right now all of this is the hot issue. Racism sells, black killing sell, fear sells so it's what's going to be shoved down our throats. I can believe that and also believe in racism and police brutality. Are there people who believe that those things are mutually exclusive? A different example might be that in the beginning of this war it was all there was to hear about and I can theorize all day but I won't pretend to know why that was. But I don't feel awareness is what people were trying to bring, I think part of it was inducing fear and then manipulation. By saying that does that mean I didn't care about soldiers or didn't think the war existed? Of course not! I just think the news sources were irresponsible and typically not doing what they should have been doing first and foremost, educating us.
 
Okay I know you said you don't want to take over the thread so feel free to ignore or answer later. But to at least change direction, @LioraVox I would be curious to know what being an ally means to you. Both to blm and just to black issues as well. Are there things we should do? Are the things you feel we shouldn't do? I think a lot of us struggle with seeing the problem and just feeling like we have no way to help so I think it'd be a nice public topic if you're up for it :)

Everything I have read says to listen to your black friends but hi I'm in a tiny town in the Midwest and I think one black person lives here. So awareness just is hard for some of us due to all the systematic segregation that has already been discussed.

Being an Ally means to listen. Trying to understand that despite what studies or surveys show its a reality for them. If any friend came to you upset & needing to vent you would just be there for them it's kinda the same. But also if a conversation comes up where someone is being judgemental or seemingly racist speak up. The biggest thing is that your voice will be heard over mine, to certain types of people. So like if you have friends or family that say shitty things, address it. Being an Ally for black people is closely similar in being an Ally for LGBTQ people.

But its all dependant on your crowd. Like in a crowd of black people it would be pointless to tell them how hard it is to be black/ to try and disprove their experiences/ or to say things like "I was once followed in a store too - it happens to everyone". Like, don't make the conversation about you or your beliefs, if someone gave you the room to share it great. But for the most part just, let them speak. Just as if you were around LGBTQ friends, you can't tell them how hard it is/ how bad their experiences are as a cis-hetero woman* (idk how you identify so..take that as an example).

If you want to take actual action : I've seen a few post pop up of people seeing poc being stopped by the police & the person stops and stays with them by their own cars or whatever, sometimes with their phones out & ready to record if they need to. Also there was a protest where an officer was pointing their gun at a protester and I think a white lady stood between the protestor and the officer.

I feel that I'm an ally to LGBTQ people, despite having irl friends who are clearly identified that way. And once I was shopping with my mom and there was a transgirl looking at makeup with her friend. My mom whispered "I think thats boy." I answered with "so?" "He's doing way too much dressed like that." And I looked at her and said "...so?" and she looked confused and annoyed and I responded with "They aren't bothering you.. they're buying makeup mind your business." Calling people out doesn't have to be an aggressive - this is about to be a 30 minute conversation. Just a quick thing to highlight how ignorant they are being in that moment.


This is the difference that Mila is pointing out. BLM was formed because we only heard about the black people that are killed in the media. This is a result of selective media coverage. Anyone and everyone who's worked in media is aware of this phenomenon and why it is a problem, that is the knowledge that Mila is sharing. This part is not her opinion, anyone who's ever worked behind the scenes, myself included, knows this happens on a dangerous level.

Nobody got mad about white people dying because nobody covered the white people dying. Nobody finds out about it. People with the power to make that happen decided it wouldn't sell enough papers, or generate enough clicks, or let's hope not something worse(political purposes.) You have to search so hard to even find records of them and then only guess based on last names. There's no pictures. It's not like the editors and news directors are all black, so why are only the black stories covered or considered to have legs? We don't know, but what we do know is it's what's dividing us on these issues.
The names of the police officers, killed in NYC in 2014 by a lone nut in retaliation to Eric Garner and Michael Brown, are not household names.

Many Americans forgot that even happened until the killings in Dallas and Baton Rouge. People don't know the names of the cops killed in Dallas and Baton Rouge of the top of their head and that was this month. Because they are referred mainly by their cities in the media. Because it doesn't receive the same level of media coverage in quite the same manor. And because at this point people are even afraid to offend anyone by bringing them up nearly as much on other platforms.

We don't know why the black killings are being covered the most, but that's why BLM was the first/only group to get mad about it.

And now, when anyone gets mad about anything else, they aren't allowed to, because they're deemed insensitive to BLM. This is a real problem. I'm not discounting the experience of black people, all I am asking is why are these the experiences dominating headlines? It's something happening out of our control.

Because it hurts us all when that happens.

We forget the names of Rafael Ramos, and Wenjian Liu, because they aren't blasted in our face everyday. And at this point what can anyone even do about it? If we start a group to remind people of every dead cop killed unjustly by nutjobs retaliating, how will that go over?? I feel like you can't. It becomes a competition when it shouldn't be. There's an environment now where no one else can get mad about related problems because they're told they're racist, or on the side of the bad guys, even if you're genuinely worried about everybody.

It's not nitpicky to point out Assata Shakur and the BLA. Any other inspirational black person could have been chosen to be named for inspiration in the movement and the one that gets picked, the one that gets quoted, her name is synonymous with cop killing. Why can't that be called out as unnecessary? Mila knows her off the top of her head because Mila knows Communism. I know her off the top of my head because I know NYC history, and race relations there during the time period. I didn't need to google her to prove a point. I'm sure Mila didn't either.

I know it seems like I'm constantly licking her ass lately, but trust me I'm not an ass licker. Anyone who's worked in media has stories up and running from likely 10 different sources at the same time on a single given issue. Anyone with integrity knows how important that is to do. And the more often you do that, the more you can see the disparity in coverage. And when that happens, when the patterns are right in front of you, you want to know the reasons. You want to tell everyone, "but look at this" and it's not to pick a fight, it's to shed light on it, because you look around and no one else is and you don't know why. It's enough to drive you crazy.

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But I know my own heart, and these conversations are hard but necessary and just know anything I say on this comes from a place of genuine concern for everybody.

BLM started out because of the lack of media coverage in cases of unarmed police brutality. The three women were tired of hearing about it from their communities and others. It started because people posted videos of police brutality on the internet and it gained traction. When the protests in Baltimore or Ferguson was happening media coverage painted BLM as a problem & disturbance, media never showed the peaceful protest but instead would pop up after police had on riot gear and were throwing smoke bombs into crowds.. naturally capturing the protestors defending themselves. But using that footage to portray them as aggressors.

I feel like your issue may be with how much its covered or talked about. Because it is in your face, you can't escape this subject unless you're sitting at home quietly reading a book. And for that I say BLM paid their dues, they as a whole never stopped calling for justice. If any other group of people want to have a movement - they also have to pay their dues too. They have to fight to have thier voices heard just as much as suporters of BLM had to have theres. I'm actually really happy to see that theres a #LatinLivesMatter starting to gain traction.

To me, the media coverage of BLM is the same coverage we got from 9/11 and its aftermath.

The problem I've noticed is that people who support #bluelivesmatter are as upset as people who support BLM. But instead of saying "yea. there's a problem" and coming together. They blindly defend police as a whole because they may have family members that are LEOs, while equally denying that the issues that BLM have been speaking on exist. They don't care - all they care about is that LEO's lives have been lost. But it's like.. Hi Hello, innocent people are being killed. You can't ignore what's been happening in society to get here. You can't pretend that the Dallas shootings happened out of nowhere. And a lot of the time they don't care. Their argument is that LEO's life have been lost and that's all that matters.

Personally, I feel bad that innocent people who happen to be police were killed. But also, they chose this job. They collected a paycheck by putting their lives on the line. I'm not going to pretend to be upset or falsely sympathetic because that's a part of their work. It sucks, and it's kind of messed up that I don't feel sympathy for them. But I just don't. I don't have blind honor and respect for their badges just because it's a badge.
 
Let's do something here. For the sake of arguement let's define racism as the practice of giving preferential treatment, either positively or negatively, to a person or group of people based on that person or group of people's skin color. Okay, now that we've done that let's look a little closer at the BLM movement. On college campuses across this country BLM has demanded "safe zones" where black (and only black) students, faculty, administrators, etc can gather. Is this a racist practice? According to the definition listed above there can be only one answer: yes, this is racism. How can it not be?

Is voting for a particular black candidate only because that candidate is black considered racism? Again, according to the definition given the answer is yes. Incidentally, so would voting for a white candidate based solely on the color of his/her skin. What about a Miss Black America beauty pageant? Unless one of the participants happen to have the last name Black but happen to be white, Latino, or what have you and is actively participating then yes, according to our definition, that pageant is racist. We can expand our examples even to our own churches. Are churches with white, and only white, members racist? Are black churches with only black members racist? Both practice social segregation so it would appear the answer is yes, both examples are racist.

What's my point? In my experience those that scream racism the loudest practice racism the most (hello Al Sharpton; how ya doing, BLM? KKK, I see you standing there). Never in my life have I experienced "white privilege" but I hear that offensive term now on a weekly basis, and I hear it mostly from those who love to scream "racism" into any tv camera they happen to be in front of. Or tweeting about it. Or propagating it in any form they can. I had a white adjunct professor in college who told me personally that black students in his class wouldn't have to study as much as white students or work as hard as white students to get good grades. His reason? 400 years of racism in this country and they deserved better grades even if they weren't smart enough to get them on their own and a "push to the front of the line." Was that racism? If you're black and a teacher tells you that you don't have to work as hard as non-black students would you feel good about that? Or would you feel your intelligence questioned because of the color of your skin?

Yes, racism is real. Hell yes, it is a problem. But racism is also a two-way street and until we all can agree on that then we're not doing a damn thing about it.
 
Who says evolution doesn't go backwards?

Here's a good article on the moral awakening of a member of the Westboro Baptist Church who, over a period of years, came to reject their hateful beliefs, and left:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...er-westboro-baptist-church-megan-phelps-roper

Interesting. So people can change. Makes me wonder.
There was a black man serving in the military. He was angry. Crazy. Not "in another world" crazy, but full of rage crazy.

He would frequently try to recruit other black soldiers to the Nation of Islam. His favorite way of proselytizing was demonizing whites and Jews. He would make outlandish claims, about how all white men were pedophiles who had sex with their own children from the time they were babies; about how white men were the only race on earth to engage in bestiality. He claimed AIDS was intentionally created by whites to destroy the black race. He would share his beliefs loudly within earshot, sometimes within arms reach, of white soldiers.

In his barracks was a white soldier. He was a hardcore white-supremacist. He had the literature, he had the insignia, and the same passion for spreading his hateful views (although he was a little more discreet about it). He had killed a black man during the L.A. riots. He was fond of telling how he was sent to a counselor after the riots, and he told the counselor not only was he fine, but he would be happy to kill any more if they needed him too.

Needless to say, there was tension between these two. A few verbal confrontations, there was a fight that was broke up...and finally they took to sneaking in each others room and urinating on the beds.

The piss is flying again, I guess we've come full circle.
 
BLM started out because of the lack of media coverage in cases of unarmed police brutality. The three women were tired of hearing about it from their communities and others. It started because people posted videos of police brutality on the internet and it gained traction. When the protests in Baltimore or Ferguson was happening media coverage painted BLM as a problem & disturbance, media never showed the peaceful protest but instead would pop up after police had on riot gear and were throwing smoke bombs into crowds.. naturally capturing the protestors defending themselves. But using that footage to portray them as aggressors.

I feel like your issue may be with how much its covered or talked about. Because it is in your face, you can't escape this subject unless you're sitting at home quietly reading a book. And for that I say BLM paid their dues, they as a whole never stopped calling for justice. If any other group of people want to have a movement - they also have to pay their dues too. They have to fight to have thier voices heard just as much as suporters of BLM had to have theres. I'm actually really happy to see that theres a #LatinLivesMatter starting to gain traction.

I understand why you think that but it's not what I've been getting at, at all. The first time I saw the BLM protests gaining traction I thought it could be a good thing, because it will point out the problem in the militarization strategies of local police departments. I know, I'm a weirdo, but these are things I've been aware of for a long time. I thought it would be a good way to fight back against something that police are in agreement is wrong. But it's been taken a completely different direction.

The reason it's important to bring up the difference in media coverage and hype over police custody deaths is related to this. Say more people were made aware of all the unjustified police killings, not just black men. Say there also showed a pattern of increased police killings of all people across the country in recent years. (I don't know if that's true, I haven't looked at the numbers recently, but it very well could be, and at times I've been given that impression)

This forces the country to address the problem as a whole, and guess what? If there was a pattern that coincided with changing policies that have been handed down by the government in the last 10-15 years, who bears the brunt of the responsibility? Individual cops who fucked up doing their jobs in the new ways they are being taught? Or government over-involvement in the way they do there jobs?

But keeping people against each other,by making it seem like a problem that mostly only effects blacks, can slow that process down.And people believe it mostly only effects blacks because of American history. It's why it's important to look at the issues on the whole and ask these questions. People aren't always being jerks when asking to take racism out of it for a second, it can be the best way to get a grasp on a actually fixing the problems.
 
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The quotas are important to bring up as well. This is part of something I was trying to get at that has more to do with politics and the structure than cops as individuals. There are certain police departments where you don't want to get promoted, if you are a good cop. What will happen if you are good at your job, and you do earn promotions, but you aren't catering to the political agendas of the moment, you will be moved to where you're least effective or will make the least noise. Most people want to do better at their job and get the pay increase, but the compromise to your personal ethics on the higher levels or feeling like you can't do what you're experience tells you is better than your orders, is not worth it. At the highest levels of law enforcement it's all politics. When, I for a time was considering police work, I was advised to stay away from NYPD for this exact reason.

And the first place I saw evidence of this taking place first hand was in Manhattan pre and post 9/11. For example, In high school we went to the Yankee ticker tape parade when they beat the Mets. The cops working the parade were all regular and people were taking pictures with them (black/white/everybody)

Anytime I went downtown for any other event, or even just commuting to work in later years 2007 on.. I saw very different police officers. Like they weren't allowed to talk to anybody and wouldn't make eye contact just look past everybody scanning the ground. A very cold presence like those British soldiers that aren't allowed to say anything.

I know this is a very minor example but part of what I'm getting at.
 
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I understand why you think that but it's not what I've been getting at, at all. The first time I saw the BLM protests gaining traction I thought it could be a good thing, because it will point out the problem in the militarization strategies of local police departments. I know, I'm a weirdo, but these are things I've been aware of for a long time. I thought it would be a good way to fight back against something that police are in agreement is wrong. But it's been taken a completely different direction.

The reason it's important to bring up the difference in media coverage and hype over police custody deaths is related to this. Say more people were made aware of all the unjustified police killings, not just black men. Say there also showed a pattern of increased police killings of all people across the country in recent years. (I don't know if that's true, I haven't looked at the numbers recently, but it very well could be, and at times I've been given that impression)

This forces the country to address the problem as a whole, and guess what? If there was a pattern that coincided with changing policies that have been handed down by the government in the last 10-15 years, who bears the brunt of the responsibility? Individual cops who fucked up doing their jobs in the new ways they are being taught? Or government over-involvement in the way they do there jobs?

But keeping people against each other,by making it seem like a problem that mostly only effects blacks, can slow that process down.And people believe it mostly only effects blacks because of American history. It's why it's important to look at the issues on the whole and ask these questions. People aren't always being jerks when asking to take racism out of it for a second, it can be the best way to get a grasp on a actually fixing the problems.

I want to add this: when you choose to be a cop you are choosing to put your life on the line to protect and serve your community, sure, but you are, in no way, choosing to be executed from the top of a building by snipers who hate you just because you carry an uniform and have certain skin color. This is not what you "collect paychecks" for. Nobody signed up for that. Nobody predicted it. They didn't die on a gang shooting gone wrong or confrontation with criminals. They were shot from above by skilled snipers out of hatred.

It is absolutely "fucked up" not feeling sympathetic about this. The vast majority of people feels sad when they hear another human being is being shot for no reason other than the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. Nobody knew who these men were before shooting them, or what they stood for, odds are the majority were completely innocent of any crime. So when BLM activists who claim to support BLM because they care about people being killed with no trial say they don't feel sympathetic about other human beings, cops, being shot at random and also without a trial I realize something about what they are telling me is off.
 
A lot of people may view this as insignificant, but I believe at least a portion of the animosity could have been avoided by the phrase "Black Lives Matter Too!"

I know that way oversimplifies things, but that simple three letter word inclusion may have had a larger impact than just the BLM. Inclusion being the key word. There is still way too much division the way I see it and until that changes, it's going to be a long, difficult road to advancement.

.02
 
A lot of people may view this as insignificant, but I believe at least a portion of the animosity could have been avoided by the phrase "Black Lives Matter Too!"

I know that way oversimplifies things, but that simple three letter word inclusion may have had a larger impact than just the BLM. Inclusion being the key word. There is still way too much division the way I see it and until that changes, it's going to be a long, difficult road to advancement.

.02
I was reading a lot of BadCopNoDonut and ProtectAndServe when I first heard of BLM. I was looking at a problem larger than just black lives. It briefly disgusted me for that very reason.

Doesn't bother me now, was just my initial feeling.
 
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Also to demonstrate what I mean. When the officers are killed by the extremists, if you ask many who they blame for it? The mayors.

Could they take it out on the black community? Yup. Do they? Nope. Because they have a deep awareness of who had the power to fix things from escalating, and didn't.

The problem I've noticed is that people who support #bluelivesmatter are as upset as people who support BLM. But instead of saying "yea. there's a problem" and coming together. They blindly defend police as a whole because they may have family members that are LEOs, while equally denying that the issues that BLM have been speaking on exist. They don't care - all they care about is that LEO's lives have been lost. But it's like.. Hi Hello, innocent people are being killed. You can't ignore what's been happening in society to get here. You can't pretend that the Dallas shootings happened out of nowhere. And a lot of the time they don't care. Their argument is that LEO's life have been lost and that's all that matters.

Personally, I feel bad that innocent people who happen to be police were killed. But also, they chose this job. They collected a paycheck by putting their lives on the line. I'm not going to pretend to be upset or falsely sympathetic because that's a part of their work. It sucks, and it's kind of messed up that I don't feel sympathy for them. But I just don't. I don't have blind honor and respect for their badges just because it's a badge.

I didn't even see this part until now. Wow.

Everyone good agrees that the young black men dying is a tragedy. Everyone good agrees that the police being killed is a tragedy. No one good believes one life is worth more than another. No one good believes one justifies the other. No one good believes a cops life is more important than another. Everyone good believes in justice for the dead and punishment for the guilty.

I don't believe BLM is a terrorist organization, I don't believe they're responsible for extremists. I think the overall message of the group is good. I don't believe they condone violence (or mean to)

But this... this right here...is what makes me lose my mind. And this is what is being allowed to fester by BLM.

To pretend for one second that there aren't instances where it's clear a cop killing a man in clouded judgement acting what they think is in self defense, while horrible, and punishable, and needs to stop, is anywhere near the same level of evil as plotted hunting of people for doing the same job as someone else is absolute bullshit and everyone knows that.

I never even believed BLM condones one justifying the other.

But when it's ok to say... well. that's what happens... well... that's what it got to.. well see... look... see...people only care about the cops dying...why should I care...

Sad as hell.
I honestly believed it was the small part of people who said this so I didn't bring it up sooner.

And no one calls that out for the bullshit that is, because everyone is afraid of seeming racist?

If people are ok with watching chaos unfold as a result of tragedies they should just admit it. But they can't pretend it's because they care about people.

Tell ya what, I'm gonna go hang out with the black friends who are just as disgusted by this kind of attitude as I am. I tried.
 
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Whew! It's not targeted? That IS a releif. (personally I never said it was or wasn't, but the agression and stops support the idea that it just might be. I've been stopped several times, given tickets that I didn't deserve, and been the victim of police brutality for 'matching description') Does that mean we shouldn't protest for change?

Of course you should protest for a change! What you shouldn't do though is lie about the issue to get more traction. By telling people that the police are targeting and killing blacks, by talking about a black genocide, and saying that America is a white supremacist state you are doing a disservice to the truth and to the real issue at hand. And perhaps if BLM didnt paint such an absurd picture of reality the BLM activists who decided to act on it and kill cops wouldn't have done it. But here is what BLM says on their website and elsewhere (the red highlighting was done by me):

BLM0.jpg

Who is targeting and killing blacks systematically? Because whomever is doing it is failing miserably at it considering black population is growing faster than the average in the US and that despite all the fuss the police only killed about 120 black people in 2015 in the US as a whole. What is BLM talking about here?

BLM1.jpg

In this graph they now go from talking about "systematically targeting blacks for demise" to call it an outright genocide. And not only do BLM call it a genocide, they call it a state-sponsored genocide meaning according to them it isn't a spontaneous genocide, no, the government is doing it. For any population who has actually gone through a genocide (armenians, jews, bosnians, rwandans) this is outrageous. There is NO genocide going on in the US against black people and the fact that they use the term so carelessly is a testament to how much they care about these issues (not much).

They also throw the idea in there that the state has a policy of attacking black children and families, that the state disposed of black gay people like garbage, again, if this was true the picture would be quite different.

But the most outlandish statements on this graph are the idea that the State is conducting "darwinian experiments" on disabled black people. Like we were talking about alien abductions. Calling America a white supremacist country is just the cherry on top.

Any person in their right minds who reads this graph realizes that there is something very wrong with BLM. Because if there truly was a white supremacist state targeting blacks for genocide and experiments we wouldn't have BLM. Black people would be fleeing the country in troves.

BLM3.jpg

This lie, the lie that the State is targeting blacks for genocide and "demise" is repeated over, and over, and over again in every single thing BML does. I have at least 10 more screenshots but I am not going to post them because it gets boring and you already got the picture. The fact is that these lies are dangerous. They divide people. They create hatred against America and against cops. The hatred festers and then you see BML activists shooting police officers at random. It is the direct result of these vicious lies.

So... should you protest the fact that police treats blacks with more aggressiveness than other ethnicities? Of course you should. Should you protest the militarization of police? Of course you should. Can you do it in a way that you don't paint a dark, rotten, and completely inaccurate picture of what is going on to stir hatred and fear in the hearts of your own people? I think you should.
 
I understand why you think that but it's not what I've been getting at, at all. The first time I saw the BLM protests gaining traction I thought it could be a good thing, because it will point out the problem in the militarization strategies of local police departments. I know, I'm a weirdo, but these are things I've been aware of for a long time. I thought it would be a good way to fight back against something that police are in agreement is wrong. But it's been taken a completely different direction.

The reason it's important to bring up the difference in media coverage and hype over police custody deaths is related to this. Say more people were made aware of all the unjustified police killings, not just black men. Say there also showed a pattern of increased police killings of all people across the country in recent years. (I don't know if that's true, I haven't looked at the numbers recently, but it very well could be, and at times I've been given that impression)

This forces the country to address the problem as a whole, and guess what? If there was a pattern that coincided with changing policies that have been handed down by the government in the last 10-15 years, who bears the brunt of the responsibility? Individual cops who fucked up doing their jobs in the new ways they are being taught? Or government over-involvement in the way they do there jobs?

But keeping people against each other,by making it seem like a problem that mostly only effects blacks, can slow that process down.And people believe it mostly only effects blacks because of American history. It's why it's important to look at the issues on the whole and ask these questions. People aren't always being jerks when asking to take racism out of it for a second, it can be the best way to get a grasp on a actually fixing the problems.

I don't understand where you're missing the "if other groups of people want to be heard - they have to put in their dues and get their voices heard just like BLM did." You keep saying that if the media covered all police brutality cases it would be better - I agree. But thats not at the fault of BLM, that's the medias lack of diverse reportings. Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean that it's not there. This is why I keep saying other groups can voice whats going on for them.

If the #AllLivesMatter crowd actually went to protests calling for the end of police brutality in general, along side of BLM or even at their own rallies. That would be 100% more productive than people using #ALM as a way to silence supporters of BLM or to disagree with BLM. You have a mouth, use it. And don't be mad at me for not speaking about your problems. BLM became what is it because supporters used their voices to talk about their problems, instead of trying to get someone else to talk about it. Other groups of people need to just do it already instead of looking at BLM like the spoiled child getting all the glory.
 
Also to demonstrate what I mean. When the officers are killed by the extremists, if you ask many who they blame for it? The mayors.

Could they take it out on the black community? Yup. Do they? Nope. Because they have a deep awareness of who had the power to fix things from escalating, and didn't.



I didn't even see this part until now. Wow.

Everyone good agrees that the young black men dying is a tragedy. Everyone good agrees that the police being killed is a tragedy. No one good believes one life is worth more than another. No one good believes one justifies the other. No one good believes a cops life is more important than another. Everyone good believes in justice for the dead and punishment for the guilty.

I don't believe BLM is a terrorist organization, I don't believe they're responsible for extremists. I think the overall message of the group is good. I don't believe they condone violence (or mean to)

But this... this right here...is what makes me lose my mind. And this is what is being allowed to fester by BLM.

To pretend for one second that there aren't instances where it's clear a cop killing a man in clouded judgement acting what they think is in self defense, while horrible, and punishable, and needs to stop, is anywhere near the same level of evil as plotted hunting of people for doing the same job as someone else is absolute bullshit and everyone knows that.

I never even believed BLM condones one justifying the other.

But when it's ok to say... well. that's what happens... well... that's what it got to.. well see... look... see...people only care about the cops dying...why should I care...

Sad as hell.
I honestly believed it was the small part of people who said this so I didn't bring it up sooner.

And no one calls that out for the bullshit that is, because everyone is afraid of seeming racist?

If people are ok with watching chaos unfold as a result of tragedies they should just admit it. But they can't pretend it's because they care about people.

Tell ya what, I'm gonna go hang out with the black friends who are just as disgusted by this kind of attitude as I am. I tried.

BLM isn't just for black people.. it just seems that way because of a name. But when people are killed unjustly, if they hear about it BLM speaks on it.

First & foremost, I am one person who supports BLM. I'm not a representation of the whole group nor am I a reflection of it. I am 27 years old, my opinions have been formed and evolving long before I even heard of BLM. And my personal feelings aren't something inspired by the BLM movement. Those are feelings that have always existed. I don't sympathize for death, the way most people would expect me to. I feel the same way for people in military - that's their job & they chose it. They knew the risks & they still went and did it knowing that their death is a possibility. They accepted it as a possibility so why am I going to get worked up over it? Like.. that doesn't make sense to me. But that's honestly a whole nother topic.
 
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I don't believe everyone in BLM subscribes to the language on their website. I don't believe everyone carries on like some of the clips I've seen. I don't believe it is fueled by racial hatred like the KKK.

Took a look to see what the SPLC had to say. https://www.splcenter.org/news/2016/07/19/black-lives-matter-not-hate-group

"The backlash to BLM, in some ways, reflects a broad sense of unease among white people who worry about the cultural changes in the country and feel they are falling behind in a country that is rapidly growing more diverse in a globalizing world. We consistently see this phenomenon in surveys showing that large numbers of white people believe racial discrimination against them is as pervasive, or more so, than it is against African Americans.

It’s the same dynamic that researchers at Harvard Business School described in a recent study: White people tend to see racism as a zero-sum game, meaning that gains for African Americans come at their expense. Black people see it differently. From their point of view, the rights pie can get bigger for everyone."

 
I don't believe everyone in BLM subscribes to the language on their website. I don't believe everyone carries on like some of the clips I've seen. I don't believe it is fueled by racial hatred like the KKK.

Took a look to see what the SPLC had to say. https://www.splcenter.org/news/2016/07/19/black-lives-matter-not-hate-group

"The backlash to BLM, in some ways, reflects a broad sense of unease among white people who worry about the cultural changes in the country and feel they are falling behind in a country that is rapidly growing more diverse in a globalizing world. We consistently see this phenomenon in surveys showing that large numbers of white people believe racial discrimination against them is as pervasive, or more so, than it is against African Americans.

It’s the same dynamic that researchers at Harvard Business School described in a recent study: White people tend to see racism as a zero-sum game, meaning that gains for African Americans come at their expense. Black people see it differently. From their point of view, the rights pie can get bigger for everyone."

Fucking this!, Thank you for posting this.
 
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I don't understand where you're missing the "if other groups of people want to be heard - they have to put in their dues and get their voices heard just like BLM did." You keep saying that if the media covered all police brutality cases it would be better - I agree. But thats not at the fault of BLM, that's the medias lack of diverse reportings. Just because you don't hear something doesn't mean that it's not there. This is why I keep saying other groups can voice whats going on for them.

I never blamed BLM for selective media coverage, what I keep saying is why the reporting is causing significant problems and slowing down the overall solving of the issues. But when its pointed out people get pissed off, and to me that makes no sense

BLM isn't just for black people.. it just seems that way because of a name. But when people are killed unjustly, if they hear about it BLM speaks on it.

First & foremost, I am one person who supports BLM. I'm not a representation of the whole group nor am I a reflection of it. I am 27 years old, my opinions have been formed and evolving long before I even heard of BLM. And my personal feelings aren't something inspired by the BLM movement. Those are feelings that have always existed. I don't sympathize for death, the way most people would expect me to. I feel the same way for people in military - that's their job & they chose it. They knew the risks & they still went and did it knowing that their death is a possibility. They accepted it as a possibility so why am I going to get worked up over it? Like.. that doesn't make sense to me. But that's honestly a whole nother topic.

I never thought you were representative of anybody else, and of course you can be apathetic about whatever you want. It's not the first time I've heard something similar. But I don't appreciate it being suggested that my compassion only goes in one direction when I've repeatedly expressed otherwise for kind of a long time.

To me cops being assassinated is a little more like dying in a terrorist attack than "what you signed up for" but everybody is allowed their opinions.

I've done what I can to point out the problems coming from policy here. It's worth looking into. That's all I've been trying to add to the discussion, and it doesn't mean it's the only capacity in which I'm concerned with it. I'm not trying to hijack a protest, but it might be something people who cared about the topic would like to think about.
 
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