Poll: if you could get rid of stigma, would you?

[Mila_]

Imagine there is a big red button you could press to remove all stigma associated with sex work. From now on doing sex work will be considered by everyone in society a regular job like being a cashier, a teacher or an engineer.

As a result of pressing the button you can now tell everybody what to do and don't need to lie ever again in any context, nobody will look at you funny and you wont be harassed. In turn many more women will join this club so it will no longer be as profitable. It pays about the same as waitressing. Would you press the button?

 

[ElaySmith]

Nope! Pay me the big bucks and call me a whore!

 

[AmberCutie]

I was just having a similar discussion on Twitter. I was told it's important to remove the taboo/stigma from sex work to make it a safer job, but the person seemed uninterested in acknowledging the lower profitability factor.

 

[Violet Dawn]

The only thing I'd do is make better laws for sex workers. I feel like the stigma adds to the allure and if anyone has a serious problem with me doing what I want then they shouldn't be in my life to begin with.

 

[eyeteach]

Nope! Pay me the big bucks and call me a whore!

: D I'm sorry but that absolutely owned me! HA!

 

[Emberblaze]

I've literally been thinking about this for hours so thank you for this thought provoking question.

I thought about a LOT of things before answering.

Number one being the fact that lack of stigma would mean better laws and better things in place to prevent forced human trafficking.

In Canada there are approximately 3 provinces super involved with human trafficking by a specific gang that targets underage girls. There are others doing this I'm sure but this gang in particular has either kidnapped or coherced a bunch of girls that I knew incredibly well. Family's literally had to buy their kids back. Girls went into hiding because when cohercion (I don't think I'm spelling this right and I'm too tired to care) didn't work they would take them by force.

And so I look at my hourly wage this week and think "would I give this up if it meant that would stop happening?" And I have to answer yes.

I would give up my own high paying job as a cam model to fight human trafficking.

But then I also think "if the job paid 11 bucks an hour plus tips would anyone still do it? Where would things be then? How would that effect the economy and the world?

But I'd probably still hit the button if I thought it would help stop human trafficking.

But then of course there's the thought that underage girls would probably still be trafficked. Maybe even worse because if women of legal age are only fetching 11 bucks an hour for pimps maybe they would think it more important to use minors so that they could ask more. And then where are we?

Back to more of the thing I'd love to see prevented.

It's a tough question. I answered yes in the poll but as I typed I thought of more things it would affect. I thought of ways it would help women and ways it could harm them more. So I really don't know.

It's not as simple as "would I give up my high wages to end stigma?" Because there's so much that plays into things.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Sub-question: would decreased stigma actually lead to less money? There'd be more women doing sex work, but would more men start to pay for their porn also?

 

[Lintilla]

I might need to find a new a job (or not, I've got skills and seniority?), but yep, no hesitation. I find stigma against sex workers unreasonable, and I prefer for most anything unreasonable to fuck off ASAP.

 

[Tartan]

going to ask a dumb question does this have anything to do with that @Katception lady on twitter? it seems to be what a lot of camgirls are tweeting about today

 

[Mila_]

I've literally been thinking about this for hours so thank you for this thought provoking question.

I thought about a LOT of things before answering.

Number one being the fact that lack of stigma would mean better laws and better things in place to prevent forced human trafficking.

In Canada there are approximately 3 provinces super involved with human trafficking by a specific gang that targets underage girls. There are others doing this I'm sure but this gang in particular has either kidnapped or coherced a bunch of girls that I knew incredibly well. Family's literally had to buy their kids back. Girls went into hiding because when cohercion (I don't think I'm spelling this right and I'm too tired to care) didn't work they would take them by force.

And so I look at my hourly wage this week and think "would I give this up if it meant that would stop happening?" And I have to answer yes.

I would give up my own high paying job as a cam model to fight human trafficking.

But then I also think "if the job paid 11 bucks an hour plus tips would anyone still do it? Where would things be then? How would that effect the economy and the world?

But I'd probably still hit the button if I thought it would help stop human trafficking.

But then of course there's the thought that underage girls would probably still be trafficked. Maybe even worse because if women of legal age are only fetching 11 bucks an hour for pimps maybe they would think it more important to use minors so that they could ask more. And then where are we?

Back to more of the thing I'd love to see prevented.

It's a tough question. I answered yes in the poll but as I typed I thought of more things it would affect. I thought of ways it would help women and ways it could harm them more. So I really don't know.

It's not as simple as "would I give up my high wages to end stigma?" Because there's so much that plays into things.

Do you think human trafficking is related to sex work stigma? How?

 

[Emberblaze]

Do you think human trafficking is related to sex work stigma? How?

I think the stigma around sex work prevents women from getting legal assistance.

Even in Canada where it's legal to escort (but not legal to pay an escort) women are not protected by the law. Often when they are able to contact the police they don't recieve the help they need.

Police and lawmakers so often treat sex workers (forced or chosen) as less than human and undeserving.

 

[caramia]

There already is a similar profession that is acceptable and has less stigma attached to it. It is called, dating, or in more extreme forms, gold-digging (marriage between female looks and male finances). I think life has the potential to be a lot happier and more peaceful if sex work is no longer considered as something dirty, and if males find it acceptable to pay for sex. They have to pay for it regardless, whether they wine and dine their woman, or put a ring on it, and bring the paycheck home. We have just made up little stories around reproductive dances to pretend we do it for love and not sex ultimately. In today's world of sex without consequences (beyond STDs) thanks to various birth control methods, women can be choosy about who they end up having sex with. This leaves perhaps a majority of males who aren't particularly good looking or financially successful (normal and/or pareto distributions of traits, genetic/acquired) without the possibility of finding a mate. These men end up resentful cause life isn't fair and some do bad things to act out that rage.

Less stigma around sex work could indeed lead to safer, better work conditions for the women involved in it. Frustrated males without a mate wouldn't have to hate themselves and/or a sex worker for engaging in stress-relieving activities if there's no stigma attached to it. Just like you go get a massage when your back hurts, you can go see a professional woman when evolutionary drives make you ache for action. I believe income potential is still correlated with one's physical attractiveness (brains help, but let's face it, top girls on MFC follow a certain average of age and body size). It pays to be good looking; social psychology studies show that time and again. There are plenty of men out there who need relief. Maybe not all sex workers would still make as much money, but as long as you can afford food and safe shelter, that to me is an honorable existence that far too many people on this earth only dream of. I am not touching on human trafficking because that imo is a completely different can of worms.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Sub-question: would decreased stigma actually lead to less money? There'd be more women doing sex work, but would more men start to pay for their porn also?

It is a good question, but my guess is no. I think the fact that sex work, is largely taboo increases the appeal. Generally fetish that consider particularly bad or dirty, like peeing, father daughter role play, fisting, incest, are the ones that pay the most. As opposed to something like foot fetish, which is generally just considered a little odd, but also doesn't appear to pay that well.

 

[ElaySmith]

going to ask a dumb question does this have anything to do with that @Katception lady on twitter? it seems to be what a lot of camgirls are tweeting about today

ugh, that tweet has so much wrong with it!

 

[AwesomeKate]

There already is a similar profession that is acceptable and has less stigma attached to it. It is called, dating, or in more extreme forms, gold-digging (marriage between female looks and male finances). I think life has the potential to be a lot happier and more peaceful if sex work is no longer considered as something dirty, and if males find it acceptable to pay for sex. They have to pay for it regardless, whether they wine and dine their woman, or put a ring on it, and bring the paycheck home. We have just made up little stories around reproductive dances to pretend we do it for love and not sex ultimately. In today's world of sex without consequences (beyond STDs) thanks to various birth control methods, women can be choosy about who they end up having sex with. This leaves perhaps a majority of males who aren't particularly good looking or financially successful (normal and/or pareto distributions of traits, genetic/acquired) without the possibility of finding a mate. These men end up resentful cause life isn't fair and some do bad things to act out that rage.

Less stigma around sex work could indeed lead to safer, better work conditions for the women involved in it. Frustrated males without a mate wouldn't have to hate themselves and/or a sex worker for engaging in stress-relieving activities if there's no stigma attached to it. Just like you go get a massage when your back hurts, you can go see a professional woman when evolutionary drives make you ache for action. I believe income potential is still correlated with one's physical attractiveness (brains help, but let's face it, top girls on MFC follow a certain average of age and body size). It pays to be good looking; social psychology studies show that time and again. There are plenty of men out there who need relief. Maybe not all sex workers would still make as much money, but as long as you can afford food and safe shelter, that to me is an honorable existence that far too many people on this earth only dream of. I am not touching on human trafficking because that imo is a completely different can of worms.

You basically said everything I was trying to type out in a much better way. I agree with your reflections on the matter. As much as I like earning a lot of money because of the stigma, I think I'd prefer the potential reduction in violence and frustration coming from men. Seems like that would be better for society at large rather than me earning a bit more money.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Less stigma around sex work could indeed lead to safer, better work conditions for the women involved in it. Frustrated males without a mate wouldn't have to hate themselves and/or a sex worker for engaging in stress-relieving activities if there's no stigma attached to it. Just like you go get a massage when your back hurts, you can go see a professional woman when evolutionary drives make you ache for action. I believe income potential is still correlated with one's physical attractiveness (brains help, but let's face it, top girls on MFC follow a certain average of age and body size). It pays to be good looking; social psychology studies show that time and again. There are plenty of men out there who need relief. Maybe not all sex workers would still make as much money, but as long as you can afford food and safe shelter, that to me is an honorable existence that far too many people on this earth only dream of. I am not touching on human trafficking because that imo is a completely different can of worms.

For folks in who live in country where prostitution is legal is the stigma lower than countries where it is illegal?. It seems to me that somebody like Freakonomics looked at the wages of sex workers in countries where it was legal vs illegal, and found they were lower. But it is been years since I read this and I could be mis-remembering the data.

 

[Tartan]

ugh, that tweet has so much wrong with it!

I spent a good hour reading them and now feel as if I have lost a couple of IQ points

 

[AudriTwo]

going to ask a dumb question does this have anything to do with that @Katception lady on twitter? it seems to be what a lot of camgirls are tweeting about today

god that thread.

 

[Tartan]

god that thread.
View attachment 74813

Thanks for the seizure...........

Hodor Hodor Hodor!!!

 

[AudriTwo]

Thanks for the seizure...........

Hodor Hodor Hodor!!!

i hope this is a joke. majority of epileptics cannot use computer screens or any screen. if so, you need to listen to your neuroligist.

(i have immediate family members with epilepsy)

 

[JickyJuly]

I'd push it if it only took the stigma from consensual, safe sex work. I already only make 2x what I did as a waitress. The benefit for me is just being at home and scheduling myself. I think full service sex workers and strippers should be treated like hairdressers/massage therapists. Make them get training for touching people safely, charge them for licensing, let the full service folks get an office where they can have security and safety. That would all create $ in our economy and clean safe conditions for workers and their clients. Taking those who care about safety and legality out of the shadows would also cut down on trafficking and nonconsent problems.

 

[Tartan]

i hope this is a joke. majority of epileptics cannot use computer screens or any screen. if so, you need to listen to your neuroligist.

(i have immediate family members with epilepsy)

Yeah I am good just hurt my eyes because I wasn't expecting it

 

[Guy]

You basically said everything I was trying to type out in a much better way. I agree with your reflections on the matter. As much as I like earning a lot of money because of the stigma, I think I'd prefer the potential reduction in violence and frustration coming from men. Seems like that would be better for society at large rather than me earning a bit more money.

Keep in mind that if camming became mainstream, the camming industry would likely stop being dominated by just 3 camsites. If you have 9 "go to sites" for models instead of 3 "go to sites" for models, that could very well mean more opportunities for profit.

 

[JickyJuly]

Keep in mind that if camming became mainstream, the camming industry would likely stop being dominated by just 3 camsites. If you have 9 "go to sites" for models instead of 3 "go to sites" for models, that could very well mean more opportunities for profit.

It's interesting to think about, but I don't think having more sites would mean more opportunities for profit. I do think sites like LiveJasmin and Streamate would have to increase the percentage they give models in order to stay in the game if more sites popped up and advertising/$ processing became easier. That would be fun to see. More cammodels might not even necessarily happen. More members might move to full service options. Plenty of camgirls might do the same. All of camming could turn as competitive as MFC. Or talent agencies could money grub their way in and pay to have their clients put at the top of sites. It would be nice to see the current system of legal brothels in America taken down. Taking the stigma away could really create changes that are complex. I don't see it doing anything negative for clip sales!

 

[Mila_]

I was really curious to know what you guys thought about this issue so I withheld my own opinion because I didn't want anyone to be influenced by it. But here it goes..

I would not press the big red button. Looking back my life has been just one long act of rebelling against my upbringing and if camming was just any other job the appeal of it for me would be half gone. It's the same reason why people smoke. Why if it's a horrible experience the first 10 times? Nobody likes coughing like their soul is about to leave their body, but you like what cigarettes say about you, which is the reason I smoked for 10 years and then quit cold turkey: cigarettes make you a rebel but if you say you are quitting smoking it makes you the worst kind of loser... the person who is bad but is ashamed of it.

Sometimes I fear that if we keep normalizing shit the only way to rebel we will have left is moving to the suburbs and raising 5 kids with a person of the opposite sex but the same ethnic background.

 

[MaddieLynn]

I wouldn't press it. I love not being "normal".

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Sub-question: would decreased stigma actually lead to less money? There'd be more women doing sex work, but would more men start to pay for their porn also?

Another: would decreased stigma lead to increased safety? Seems like quite a leap to me, perhaps based in utter naivete.

 

[AmberCutie]

Another: would decreased stigma lead to increased safety? Seems like quite a leap to me, perhaps based in utter naivete.

That is what the assumption is. The more accepted and mainstream it is as a career, the more understanding, support, and help sex workers would get.

 

[Gen]

Another: would decreased stigma lead to increased safety? Seems like quite a leap to me, perhaps based in utter naivete.

I think over time it would. Sex workers are often seen as disposable or at least as people who won’t pursue legal action against you. Change that, and I imagine there’d be at least some increase in safety.

Not the same as actually being safer obviously, and doesn’t directly address stigma, but one place in the UK classified crimes against sex workers as a hate crime, and I’d reckon that makes clients at least marginally less likely to be violent. Mostly this is just an interesting thing to see:

In 2006, Merseyside police was the first and so far only force in the country to declare crimes against sex workers as "hate crime".

The results have been dramatic. In the five years before the new way of working began to take effect in 2007, there was just one conviction for a series of assaults against sex workers.

Now the overall conviction rate for crimes against sex workers is 84%, with a 67% conviction rate for rape. The national average conviction rate for rape is just 6.5%.

I don’t think it’d ever be as safe as waitressing or anything like that, but I think reduced stigma would help more people realize that they likely know and care about a sex worker, and have bigger stakes in wanting to protect them, and that if it wasn’t a done-in-the-shadows type of job, there’d be more eyes on clients to behave themselves.

 

[Mila_]

I think the thread took a life of its own, my intention was simply discussing the negative perception Sex Workers face and the diminished opportunities in things like vanilla jobs or renting a place. I didn’t intend for it to turn into a discussion about human trafficking or murder rates in prostitution. It’s good that it did because I read things I hadn’t considered but it’s bad in that I was hoping more people would discuss their own preference in a selfish way more than trends in society