Poll: if you could get rid of stigma, would you?

[Gen]

I think the thread took a life of its own, my intention was simply discussing the negative perception Sex Workers face and the diminished opportunities in things like vanilla jobs or renting a place. I didn’t intend for it to turn into a discussion about human trafficking or murder rates in prostitution. It’s good that it did because I read things I hadn’t considered but it’s bad in that I was hoping more people would discuss their own preference in a selfish way more than trends in society

I don’t think you can separate them, though. Maybe if it was focused just on camming instead of sex work as a whole? Tbh I think camming has the best income-to-stigma ratio so the answers might be a bit different. I’d be more inclined to say No for camming but Yes for sex work as a whole. But that’s just me!! I think this is a really interesting topic and it’s given me a lot to think about.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Maybe if it was focused just on camming instead of sex work as a whole?

I agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/22/merseyside-police-sex-workers-protect

Here is the article you quoted. Seems to be referring to prostitution, which is something that ought to be in it's own category if you ask me.

 

[Gen]

I agree.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/dec/22/merseyside-police-sex-workers-protect

Here is the article you quoted. Seems to be referring to prostitution, which is something that ought to be in it's own category if you ask me.

Thank you for linking! I forgot to add it.

 

[Worship Jaclyn]

The world would be a healthier place if people weren't so closed off about sexuality. I think that's where the stigma comes from. So I would take an overall healthier population over job security.

 

[Innocent_Intentions]

Nah!
I love what I do and the people who matter the most (mother, sister, fiancé, dog) are all very supportive of it and that's all I really care about. Plus, I love walking into a room of people with my head held high feeling like I could take on anyone If they dared to cross me. Camming gives me a confidence that bagging groceries in an itchy red uniform for Weis Markets never did/could. I feel like making a waitress wage would once again constantly make me feel below my customers. Yeah it would be cool to not be given the side eye online (It's never happened in person) or to be called disgusting names. But what doesn't kill you makes you stronger and making sex work mainstream would take a lot of the fun away from it.

 

[AmberCutie]

It is interesting seeing the answers here. I know a LOT of the SW community are all for bettering life for all humans and take calls to action for big social movements, so the fact that 100% of the answers are NOT just for pushing the button and changing the stigma is surprising.

Some people really do just want to live their own life and will support what benefits them and those close to them, and it's harder to see the bigger picture. Not all cam girls/sex workers are ready to drop their own benefit to support the greater good, especially when it's all hypothetical.

 

[venomous]

Nope! Pay me the big bucks and call me a whore!

Epic

 

[Mila_]

so the fact that 100% of the answers are NOT just for pushing the button and changing the stigma is surprising.

And if we look at just the poll, not the answers, it’s almost a tie! But I don’t know if it’s all models or if people who are members here but who don’t cam for a living also voted

 

[Gen]

And if we look at just the poll, not the answers, it’s almost a tie! But I don’t know if it’s all models or if people who are members here but who don’t cam for a living also voted

You might already know but if you click on “26 votes” to the right of the results, you can see who voted what!

I would be curious to see if there’s a correlation between higher income and wanting to preserve the status quo, whereas people who benefit less from things as they might benefit more from changing it? Not curious enough to prove it further haha but passively curious.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

I voted, but only to see the vote.

 

[AmberCutie]

You might already know but if you click on “26 votes” to the right of the results, you can see who voted what!

I would be curious to see if there’s a correlation between higher income and wanting to preserve the status quo, whereas people who benefit less from things as they might benefit more from changing it? Not curious enough to prove it further haha but passively curious.

I'm probably considered mid to high income and selected NO because I'm one of the people I referenced before that isn't willing to fight the world's fight and just want to take care of myself and my own family. Knowing there are sex workers out there that have struggles because of stigma in the industry sucks, but in the camming world it really isn't that big of an issue and doesn't affect me directly so I act selfishly and don't push it.

I wholeheartedly believe if the stigma of sex work (but more so camming) was lessened, the pool of people in the profession would more than quadrouple and would have a big affect on the income of us current workers. We are already encountering an income drop from the camming industry being more popular, with this whole "MFC rooms have 1/2 the traffic they used to" cried all over the board. Traffic is still abundant, but it has spread over probably 3x as many rooms as a couple years ago because this job is getting more and more popular among younger chicks wanting a piece of the pie! We're already seeing it.

I would NOT be doing this job if it weren't for the probability of increased income and freedoms it gives me. If camming and other sex work became mainstream like waitressing or bank tellers, who knows what kind of changes we current cam models would have to make to secure the current amount of income we are used to?

 

[JickyJuly]

Pushing the button can be selfish too. In my case, it has some self serving purposes. I'm guessing whether someone has children or plans to have children is probably the biggest deciding factor in wanting to push the button? Before being a parent, I didn't care one way or the other. I think on my 10 year HS reunion paperwork for those who chose not to attend I wrote "porn" in the occupation line. Now, I don't have the same room to be flippant. Some judgement for my life choices will fall onto my kids, but I definitely don't want my naked internet butt to become part of that. My babes aren't in school yet, but I imagine it will become tedious talking to other moms and being guarded while trying not to seem too awkward.

 

[Phoenix4987]

I voted to not push the button. Sex workers deserve more bank than a waitress for doing what they do. Safety- physical and legal, not having to hide this big secret etc, I'm about it. Seeing these chicks get paid the same as someone who's taking your order, nah.

 

[Lintilla]

I voted to not push the button. Sex workers deserve more bank than a waitress for doing what they do. Safety- physical and legal, not having to hide this big secret etc, I'm about it. Seeing these chicks get paid the same as someone who's taking your order, nah.

Why does the sex worker deserve more? Please expand.

 

[Phoenix4987]

No thanks, if you disagree it would be far more interesting to hear that side.

 

[Kiki Jane]

I could see camming still possibly being highly paid, if the no-stigma button was pushed, but the industry might be way more choosy-- mainstream studios would probably pop up and take over. Camming might be more like regular acting, in that the cammers would mostly or all be working for big studios, who would audition and hire cammers/actresses who met certain high standards. At the very least, the criteria might be similar to hiring professional cheerleaders or swimsuit models or whatever, because there would be demand for more cammers (as opposed to the "demand" for top movie stars). There could/would also be cam superstars who would be like normal celebrities. Furthermore, cammers would probably have to follow stupid brand standards/customer service standards, that would make camming way less fun.

For the health of society, I'd push the button; but, it would likely make camming as a whole less fun, and less of an autonomous career choice for most women. So, for totally selfish, not-for-the-good-of-society reasons, I might be tempted to uh just leave the button room, so there's at least one fun, lucrative, autonomous career choice for women to do at home.

 

[JickyJuly]

No thanks, if you disagree it would be far more interesting to hear that side.

If we're just talking about camgirls, I sort of disagree. Preface: It's a slippery slope to rank what people "deserve" at their jobs of course. Very few folks really get paid what they should. Still, for tipping jobs, I've been a cosmetologist and a waitress. Both of those were WAY more bullshit to deal with than camming. Plus, cosmetology school took 4k, a year and a half of my life, cuts and burns, certification and constant further learning which takes time and money. If we're talking only about full service workers, I'd agree with you. They're going to deal with in person nonsense, safety concerns and bodily risks. But, as far as camming goes, even though it hurts to take the bad nights personally or to put up a ton of clips and hit a dry spell, I don't think it's necessarily true that we're all doing more or dealing with more than other tipped professions even with the stigma. Lots of professions have stigmas that don't get equalized with money.

 

[emahlee]

Nope! Pay me the big bucks and call me a whore!

AMEN!!!

Seriously, then every girl would cam.
And no, more men wouldn't tip/pay/use the sites.
I'd be screwed!

 

[charleigh_]

This. That it is taboo is what makes it hot and desireable. Same reason why having an affair is hot -- it's a secret and secrets are the currency of intimacy.

If we were all well-respected, treated properly and not seen as lowly cum-rags it wouldn't be fun for them any more. I have had tippers flat-out tell me they tip to humiliate, nothing more or less.

 

[Mila_]

If we were all well-respected, treated properly and not seen as lowly cum-rags it wouldn't be fun for them any more. I have had tippers flat-out tell me they tip to humiliate, nothing more or less.

Sounds like you need new regulars and a different hustle.

 

[charleigh_]

Sounds like you need new regulars and a different hustle.

Sounds like you need to keep your opinion to yourself about the community I've built in my room. No one said anything about "regulars".

It was one guy in particular who liked to "punish the pretty, pretty princesses by making them do all of the vile things they put on their menus (like when anal gaping was allowed)". Obviously, this tipper has a pretty poor outlook and attitude toward women in general but that doesn't mean he's the ONLY tipper that feels that way.

Anyone who understands anything about the psychology of sex knows that the potential shame should anyone outside of their sex partners know their particular brand of kink is part of the drive hot for a lot of people. Those fetishes didn't develop because it was normal or seen as healthy to openly practice those sex acts. They developed because it was shameful and it makes a person feel like they're getting away with something. That feeling is empowering to a degree.

Whether you want to believe it or not, men like to punish women. Women are the dirty, dirty for making a man's dick hard therefore they must be punished. If you don't believe me, I highly suggest you do your own research on the matter.

Porn being viewed as naughty is what keeps us in business. Normalize it and you might as well call it a day. Sure, protection laws and healthcare and unions would be nice but we're a long way from that.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

This is a really REALLY interesting question. While I LOVE the money and I do believe much of the high $$$ amounts has to do with the stigma, I know that stigma has a terrible effect on my mental health, and my safety not to mention the rest of the sex work community. I'd rather make less money and have it gone.

 

[Mfc_anon]

I remember a comedian once said, he loves having sex and eating cookies. But he’s not paying money to watch people eat cookies. Of course it would be great if we could all have that wholesome tantric sex but we all know stigma and shame is part of the excitement.

 

[caireen]

I think one thing that was pointed out by another camgirl when I had this discussion with some other people recently is that if it was less stigmatized it wouldn't be such a mark against us for future employment; like I would be able to list it and all the skills I've gained on my resume when applying for jobs or education opportunities.
I feel like if I had that ability a drop in income wouldn't be as devastating; I could more easily transition into another kind of job or career instead of basically going into the job market with an 8 year blank section on my resume.

 

[charleigh_]

I think one thing that was pointed out by another camgirl when I had this discussion with some other people recently is that if it was less stigmatized it wouldn't be such a mark against us for future employment; like I would be able to list it and all the skills I've gained on my resume when applying for jobs or education opportunities.
I feel like if I had that ability a drop in income wouldn't be as devastating; I could more easily transition into another kind of job or career instead of basically going into the job market with an 8 year blank section on my resume.

In this day and age, having a large gap in your resume isn't that big of deal. Fill in the gap with "Self-employed" and say you walked dogs for 8 years. Or that you had an in-home daycare or knitted sweaters for cats. They don't have the time nor the desire to dig that deeply into what your business was. You're not actually lying because you ARE self-employed.

 

[charleigh_]

Sorry you guys didn't like my opinion on a topic I've spent quite a bit of time talking to people about both in my room and in other areas of life.

I do have a question for you, though. When someone tells you no when you've asked for something, does that not make you want it ten times more? When you have a cam goal and it's just out of reach, you work harder to get it, right?

Treating sex workers without stigma once they leave the business should be the norm.

But, while you're in the business? I think the stigma adds to the excitement for the person viewing your cam. If you're pretty straight-laced in your room and then suddenly set an anal goal and watch the tips fly in, it's because you're doing something you swore you'd never do. It's excited a part of their brain that says, "this is so wrong, but so right".

I know a lot of you are a lot younger than I am and you'll figure this out in your own right. If you want to stop the stigma from ever occurring in the first place, it starts with how children are raised. You can't stop a grown man from degrading women when he's been doing it his entire life but you can prevent a future generation of those men from happening if they are raised respecting women and not treating women as trophies they deserve to win because they are nice guys.

Women are raped by nice guys every day because those nice guys feel like being nice entitled them to that woman's body. They feel that way because they were told they were by their fathers, other male role models, movies, magazines, songs and artwork.

This subject is far, far, far more complicated than "can I get a real job after I stop camming". It's about how women are viewed and treated in every aspect of our lives, not just our bedrooms.

 

[Mila_]

Sorry you guys didn't like my opinion on a topic I've spent quite a bit of time talking to people about both in my room and in other areas of life.

I do have a question for you, though. When someone tells you no when you've asked for something, does that not make you want it ten times more? When you have a cam goal and it's just out of reach, you work harder to get it, right?

Treating sex workers without stigma once they leave the business should be the norm.

But, while you're in the business? I think the stigma adds to the excitement for the person viewing your cam. If you're pretty straight-laced in your room and then suddenly set an anal goal and watch the tips fly in, it's because you're doing something you swore you'd never do. It's excited a part of their brain that says, "this is so wrong, but so right".

I know a lot of you are a lot younger than I am and you'll figure this out in your own right. If you want to stop the stigma from ever occurring in the first place, it starts with how children are raised. You can't stop a grown man from degrading women when he's been doing it his entire life but you can prevent a future generation of those men from happening if they are raised respecting women and not treating women as trophies they deserve to win because they are nice guys.

Women are raped by nice guys every day because those nice guys feel like being nice entitled them to that woman's body. They feel that way because they were told they were by their fathers, other male role models, movies, magazines, songs and artwork.

This subject is far, far, far more complicated than "can I get a real job after I stop camming". It's about how women are viewed and treated in every aspect of our lives, not just our bedrooms.

There is a distance between liking camgirls because it is "forbidden" and liking camgirls because you want to humiliate them and consider them, and I quote, "cumrags". I was objecting to your second point.

 

[charleigh_]

There is a distance between liking camgirls because it is "forbidden" and liking camgirls because you want to humiliate them and consider them, and I quote, "cumrags". I was objecting to your second point.

How many times have models complained that privates get crushed after 20 seconds because the guy just wanted to get his, or how demanding and degrading some of the tip notes and private sessions become? You can put the blindfold on or you can see that there is a percentage of men on these sites that are driven by this. When all of the super hardcore stuff was not allowed any more there was a significant dip in traffic until the next convention where it exploded in terms of new users that weren't aware of the old Chaturbate. A lot of the abuse has toned down significantly since those acts were considered against TOS, but it does still exist.

Had one guy come in the other day, never seen him before, and his first comment to me was "Hey get that cunt out and fuck it bitch". You know it happens. People need to know WHY it happens.

 

[Mila_]

How many times have models complained that privates get crushed after 20 seconds because the guy just wanted to get his, or how demanding and degrading some of the tip notes and private sessions become? You can put the blindfold on or you can see that there is a percentage of men on these sites that are driven by this. When all of the super hardcore stuff was not allowed any more there was a significant dip in traffic until the next convention where it exploded in terms of new users that weren't aware of the old Chaturbate. A lot of the abuse has toned down significantly since those acts were considered against TOS, but it does still exist.

Had one guy come in the other day, never seen him before, and his first comment to me was "Hey get that cunt out and fuck it bitch". You know it happens. People need to know WHY it happens.

My experience is vastly different probably because I ranked top 20 several times as a non-nude model on MFC and now on CB I am a teaser that maybe one days shows half a nipple and I am pulling the same kind of income. The standard in my room is very high when it comes to intelligence, generosity, and just a hint of weirdness so the kind of treatment that you are used to is very frowned upon by the members in my room. There are always randoms who stop by and post a rude comment but it is always people who are new to cams or from places like India, the regular cam watcher/tipper is certainly not like this. At least in my experience. So the idea that the reason this business is lucrative is because members want to humilliate us and consider us cum-rags is ridiculous.

 

[JickyJuly]

How many times have models complained that privates get crushed after 20 seconds because the guy just wanted to get his, or how demanding and degrading some of the tip notes and private sessions become? You can put the blindfold on or you can see that there is a percentage of men on these sites that are driven by this. When all of the super hardcore stuff was not allowed any more there was a significant dip in traffic until the next convention where it exploded in terms of new users that weren't aware of the old Chaturbate. A lot of the abuse has toned down significantly since those acts were considered against TOS, but it does still exist.

Had one guy come in the other day, never seen him before, and his first comment to me was "Hey get that cunt out and fuck it bitch". You know it happens. People need to know WHY it happens.

I banned dudes who spoke to me this way even on a meat market site like Streamate. Still made plenty of money. Doesn't happen because of a stigma or because they like being naughty. Those dudes want to talk to all the women in their lives that way. You don't have to pander to them. They're not going to be the high spenders, and, even if they are, they're going to burn most of us out. If you enjoy being a cum rag, cool. But, you don't have to be to make money in this industry. That's part of the stigma, and part of how the rest of us would benefit without it. I don't want to be lumped in with who you are as a camgirl. Many members don't want to be lumped in with the way you're generalizing men.