MFC ban questions

[xDollPartsx]

I will admit with my limited computer typing skills and habit of hitting enter immediately on things i have accidentally banned more people than id like to admit. If they send me a polite mfc mail i usually admit my goof and apologize. Most of the time tho if i get an mfc mail i get angry mean insulting mfc mails in response which causes me to either ignore the mail and not feel so bad about my goof or i respond by pointing out how rude it was of them to lash out at me that way and although they are welcome to come back to do so another night with a better attitude please and thanks. Haha.

 

[AmberCutie]

Of course not. My*FREE*cams. I want to say this as respectfully as possible, but in the end, I'm disagreeing and that tends to cause friction no matter what, so fingers crossed. Tipping is an optional feature. I understand that models want to be tipped, and that is entirely reasonable, but tipping is not required for viewing. Tipping is required for making requests or aiding in reaching a goal. Just like no model is REQUIRED to show anything, no user is REQUIRED to tip. Do models have to LIKE people who do not tip? Of course not. Models work for tips, so it is understandable to desire tips, but there are plenty of models that believe that they have a right to demand tips and punish those who do not tip. If someone is being rude, then by all means, punish them, but if they have not said a single word in the chat, or have been nothing but friendly in the chat, then what have they actually done wrong? Also, give it a little extra thought. You're banning someone for not tipping. What does that accomplish? Banning them doesn't force them to tip you. It just eliminates the possibility that they will EVER tip. If someone isn't even chatting, then you're not even getting rid of a nuisance in the chat. You're literally only hurting yourself.



Definitely. It is obviously the nicer option to assume all people (and models, by extension) are reasonable, rational, intelligent beings, but realistically, models are just as imperfect as the rest of humanity. No disrespect intended, but that is just the truth. Models can, and will, be just as irrational as any other person. Not ALL models. There are plenty reasonable, friendly models. However, there are some that act without good reason. For example, I was once in a room where the model had JUST set a 4,000 tip goal. Despite the fact that she was pretty modestly ranked (a very nice way of saying "in no position to be making big demands"), she gave the chat 10 minutes to reach the goal "Or else I will begin banning people randomly." Now, I can understand if a model is mad at not reaching a modest goal after a long time. Slow days happen, and they are understandably frustrating. Even in those cases, banning random people out of frustration I something I still cannot support, but I can at least...kind of...vaguely...barely see the reasoning behind it if nobody was tipping at all. However, this was largely unreasonable and people were tipping bit by bit (ranging between 10 and 100 every minute or so) so it wasn't like she was not getting tips, and yet at the 10 minute mark, when the goal was still about 3200 away, she announced she was going to start banning random users from the chat. Naturally, I left the chat at that point, so I don't know what happened after, but that doesn't sound reasonable at all.

Alternately, I was in another room where the model was not even facing her computer (computer, not camera, as I do know they are sometimes separate), I gave a perfectly friendly greeting, and got kicked/banned the LITERAL INSTANT my message came up in the chat. For the record, my username is not offensive or inappropriate in any way. Most would agree it is notably tame. I also did not comment during a show of any kind or a tip wall. Everyone was chatting normally, I came in, and my message was on the screen for maybe one full second before I got booted. Permanently.

In another case, the model's room was pretty dead, so I was chatting to keep her company. She was laughing and smiling and joking along with me. I even said "Sorry I'm not tipping. I hope it doesn't bother you." She replied with "Not at all!! You're really nice and fun to talk to! I'm glad you're here because it's so boring today!" Talked for about another 20 minutes before she had to go. Tried going to her room the next day. Nope. Banned. Not the slightest clue why.

Normally any time someone says the words I bolded in your post, I see red. Because most times they rationalize it differently or are very verbal about their intention to never ever spend a nickel in your room due to the title of the site. I appreciate the entirety of your post, though. I think one of the few subjects where ACF cam girls are divided is to ban or not to ban freeloaders. I am in the mindset of "if they aren't bothering me, they're adding to my room count, which is still helpful". Now, I will admit that every once in a while I do feel bitter about them silently sitting there watching me fail to hit a goal and not chipping in a mere token. But instead of banning random names, I'll give an innocent little speech about how it's most fun when it's a group effort and if no one pitches in I can't stick around, if you enjoy me don't forget a few tokens once in a while. I think that's a more positive and business-smart reaction than banning, in my opinion.

Now, if a "freeloader" pipes up with snarky comments in chat, or opens with demand or request, I'm likely to put them on ignore and/or 6 hour ban so I am not bothered by them anymore. Sometimes I'll click on them to view their tokens/points or how long they've been a member before making any judgment call, but it's all a case by case basis whether they get the iggy boot or not.

 

[Mila_]

Maybe your name rang a bell and she thought you were someone else. It has happened to me. I had a member who was a threat to my personal safety and he used a rare username. Whenever I saw someone with a username that was too similar I would ban them preemptively. I knew odds were that they were unrelated, but the risk was too high for me to take.

Edit: to add to the above comment, whenever someone gives me an "off" vibe, and I have a negative hunch about them I will ban, no questions asked. When you have 1000s of people walking into your chatroom you will probably encounter more than your fair share of crazies and if I feel someone is going to cause trouble I ban them before giving them a chance to.

 

[Gen]

I am on team "why ban quiet premiums when there are countless guests who've never even supported the site they're utilizing" but I've banned a few who sat silently in my room for shift after shift, never speaking or tipping. If you have the opportunity to interact and repeatedly opt not to, especially on days when I was really struggling, I don't want you in my room. I don't care if you can still lounge creep, just that seeing your username grinds my gears and it makes me a happier camgirl to remove your name from the list.

I think banning out of frustration is still a fair reason, though. I don't think it's always the smartest decision but I love that MFC lets you ban with no reason necessary if you choose to. Models have the right to ban anyone any time for any reason and I think that's fantastic.

 

[EspiKvlt]

When I ban freeloaders, it's basics who've been on the site for over a year.

I never ban premiums for that, though. I trust that if I'm patient enough, they'll eventually tip me if they keep coming back.

 

[Bringeroflight]

Normally any time someone says the words I bolded in your post, I see red. Because most times they rationalize it differently or are very verbal about their intention to never ever spend a nickel in your room due to the title of the site. I appreciate the entirety of your post, though. I think one of the few subjects where ACF cam girls are divided is to ban or not to ban freeloaders. I am in the mindset of "if they aren't bothering me, they're adding to my room count, which is still helpful". Now, I will admit that every once in a while I do feel bitter about them silently sitting there watching me fail to hit a goal and not chipping in a mere token. But instead of banning random names, I'll give an innocent little speech about how it's most fun when it's a group effort and if no one pitches in I can't stick around, if you enjoy me don't forget a few tokens once in a while. I think that's a more positive and business-smart reaction than banning, in my opinion.

Now, if a "freeloader" pipes up with snarky comments in chat, or opens with demand or request, I'm likely to put them on ignore and/or 6 hour ban so I am not bothered by them anymore. Sometimes I'll click on them to view their tokens/points or how long they've been a member before making any judgment call, but it's all a case by case basis whether they get the iggy boot or not.

Thank you for reacting reasonably. That's refreshing. That's honestly all I really have to say. The beauty of people reacting calmly and rationally is that an argument doesn't break out. I just wanted to make sure you know I appreciate the nature and content of your reply, since reasonable thinkers are not openly appreciated often enough.

Maybe your name rang a bell and she thought you were someone else. It has happened to me. I had a member who was a threat to my personal safety and he used a rare username. Whenever I saw someone with a username that was too similar I would ban them preemptively. I knew odds were that they were unrelated, but the risk was too high for me to take.

Edit: to add to the above comment, whenever someone gives me an "off" vibe, and I have a negative hunch about them I will ban, no questions asked. When you have 1000s of people walking into your chatroom you will probably encounter more than your fair share of crazies and if I feel someone is going to cause trouble I ban them before giving them a chance to.

My name is fairly unique, but it is true that a fair percentage of models get literally thousands of usernames appearing over their MFC career and don't pay close, specific attention to each one. Naturally, I try to view any situation from as many angles as possible, not just my own. It is easy to get banned and quickly resort to "FUCKING BITCH!!!!!" but that kind of anger will not solve anything. Not to say that it is impossible for a model to just be unreasonable, but assuming that off-the-bat would only make things worse. Considering the position models are in (har dee har har), it makes sense to be quick-to-ban either for security reasons or just having dealt with so many undesirables that their patience is understandably thin. Still, as a non-model, it can be very aggravating being targeted when I don't feel I've done anything wrong. Which is why I am very thankful for models that will contact a user before resorting to banning, if they can spare the time and effort. I was in a model's room once just being fun and silly with her, but every once in a while, she would walk off camera. Just being silly, I would note those moments with "Poof!", like she poofed from the cam. What I didn't know was that she was leaving the camera to cough or sneeze because she was sick, but since I didn't have sound, I couldn't hear that. She PMed me saying "If you're going to make fun of me being sick, please leave me alone." After I told her I didn't know she was sick and we cleared up that I couldn't hear her coughing and explained why I was saying "Poof!", she understood, apologized for the misunderstanding, and all was good. Of course, models with like 800+ people in their room can't be that personal, but it is nice when models manage to be nice enough to talk it out.

I am on team "why ban quiet premiums when there are countless guests who've never even supported the site they're utilizing" but I've banned a few who sat silently in my room for shift after shift, never speaking or tipping. If you have the opportunity to interact and repeatedly opt not to, especially on days when I was really struggling, I don't want you in my room. I don't care if you can still lounge creep, just that seeing your username grinds my gears and it makes me a happier camgirl to remove your name from the list.

I think banning out of frustration is still a fair reason, though. I don't think it's always the smartest decision but I love that MFC lets you ban with no reason necessary if you choose to. Models have the right to ban anyone any time for any reason and I think that's fantastic.

Honestly, I don't ever see a reason to fault basics unless they are being rude in a chat. Plenty of models have social media they use for promotion, like Twitter and such, but never pay those sites for their use of it. Same goes for MFC. The people that DO pay are what make it free-to-use for people who don't or can't pay. With all due respect, it seems like many models forget that tokens cost money. As much as I understand the model's end of wanting to get paid, I also understand the user's end of not wanting to dish out money on a site that advertises itself as being a free service. From the model's point of view, tokens are money that they receive, and it costs them nothing to receive the money. Time and effort on camera, for sure, but the only affect it has on their wallets is feeding them. For users, it is the exact opposite. Some of us cannot afford to pay, or can afford, but do not want to put our money towards this medium. That is how free-to-play games work. It is optionally free because there are people that choose to support and pay for perks. When models are the ones receiving the money, it is easy to forget that someone has to take money out of their pockets for those tips to exist. If the tables were turned and you were a user in someone else's cam room, you probably wouldn't tip as much as you expect your viewers to because now that is a cost on you.

As for not talking in chats almost ever, again, think of it from the viewers' point of view. Many of them are probably scared. It has been mentioned that models can ban whenever they want without warning or explanation, so why WOULDN'T people be hesitant to make their existence known when they know that there is the very real possibility they will just be insta-banned as soon as they say anything? Again, it is easy to see your own point of view and expect others to understand it, but try viewing the situation from their point of view as well before casting too much judgment.

As for models having so much power to ban, it is rather counter-intuitive. The idea of "blocking needs to be an option on social media for the sake of security" is entirely fair, even if people abuse it, but on something like MFC, the conditions are different. On something like Facebook, the two people involved are on equal ground. However, on MFC, the relationship is business-owner/customer. If you block someone on Facebook, you're not really losing anything, but blocking on MFC is ridding you of a possible source of income. Even if they haven't tipped, banning them ensures that they never will, so you've solved nothing. Since MFC makes profit by people buying tokens, turning that person away is that one user less likely to buy tokens to use on that one model, and when this trend is repeated across hundreds of models and users, the difference it makes in overall profit for both MFC and the model grows exponentially. All it does is kill/lessen business, which makes constant, easy permabanning counter-intuitive to the entire idea of a business. MFC gives too much power to the models, which is exactly what makes people scared to chat. Let me say that again. MFC GIVES MODELS SO MUCH POWER THAT IT CAUSES SOME OF THE ISSUES THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT. Models want people to chat, but act in ways that make users too scared to chat, which means the users do not chat and get banned for it, which only makes them more scared to interact with models. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by MFC giving models power to abuse. Let me make this very, very clear. YOUR MONEY COMES FROM MEMBERS TIPPING YOU. Business economics 101 is "If you treat your customers badly, they will stop being your customers."

 

[EspiKvlt]

You're comparing MFC to a social media service when it should be compared to a restaurant...

 

[AmberCutie]

You're comparing MFC to a social media service when it should be compared to a restaurant...

I have removed the "Bad Troll Attempt" (poop) rating you've posted because seriously, everyone needs to learn how to deal with disagreement without flinging feces. There are other ratings you can use if you disagree. Reserve "troll" ratings for actual trollish comments, not for people posting well thought out (even if disagreeable) posts.

(edit to add: I can and will remove the ability to rate posts if this remains a problem.)

 

[AmberCutie]

Honestly, I don't ever see a reason to fault basics unless they are being rude in a chat. Plenty of models have social media they use for promotion, like Twitter and such, but never pay those sites for their use of it. Same goes for MFC. The people that DO pay are what make it free-to-use for people who don't or can't pay. With all due respect, it seems like many models forget that tokens cost money. As much as I understand the model's end of wanting to get paid, I also understand the user's end of not wanting to dish out money on a site that advertises itself as being a free service. From the model's point of view, tokens are money that they receive, and it costs them nothing to receive the money. Time and effort on camera, for sure, but the only affect it has on their wallets is feeding them. For users, it is the exact opposite. Some of us cannot afford to pay, or can afford, but do not want to put our money towards this medium. That is how free-to-play games work. It is optionally free because there are people that choose to support and pay for perks. When models are the ones receiving the money, it is easy to forget that someone has to take money out of their pockets for those tips to exist. If the tables were turned and you were a user in someone else's cam room, you probably wouldn't tip as much as you expect your viewers to because now that is a cost on you.

As for not talking in chats almost ever, again, think of it from the viewers' point of view. Many of them are probably scared. It has been mentioned that models can ban whenever they want without warning or explanation, so why WOULDN'T people be hesitant to make their existence known when they know that there is the very real possibility they will just be insta-banned as soon as they say anything? Again, it is easy to see your own point of view and expect others to understand it, but try viewing the situation from their point of view as well before casting too much judgment.

As for models having so much power to ban, it is rather counter-intuitive. The idea of "blocking needs to be an option on social media for the sake of security" is entirely fair, even if people abuse it, but on something like MFC, the conditions are different. On something like Facebook, the two people involved are on equal ground. However, on MFC, the relationship is business-owner/customer. If you block someone on Facebook, you're not really losing anything, but blocking on MFC is ridding you of a possible source of income. Even if they haven't tipped, banning them ensures that they never will, so you've solved nothing. Since MFC makes profit by people buying tokens, turning that person away is that one user less likely to buy tokens to use on that one model, and when this trend is repeated across hundreds of models and users, the difference it makes in overall profit for both MFC and the model grows exponentially. All it does is kill/lessen business, which makes constant, easy permabanning counter-intuitive to the entire idea of a business. MFC gives too much power to the models, which is exactly what makes people scared to chat. Let me say that again. MFC GIVES MODELS SO MUCH POWER THAT IT CAUSES SOME OF THE ISSUES THEY COMPLAIN ABOUT. Models want people to chat, but act in ways that make users too scared to chat, which means the users do not chat and get banned for it, which only makes them more scared to interact with models. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy caused by MFC giving models power to abuse. Let me make this very, very clear. YOUR MONEY COMES FROM MEMBERS TIPPING YOU. Business economics 101 is "If you treat your customers badly, they will stop being your

While I won't ever really be ok accepting if a person is planning to NEVER tip the model(s) they enjoy on MFC, I can appreciate some of the sentiment of your post here. Especially the last section, I think that sometimes the freedom we have on MFC can cause us to overreact to things without considering consequences.

Also I will agree with Espi that the comparison of a bar/restaurant/performance being more appropriate than using a social media platform. Yes, the business model of "some people pay and others don't and it all evens out" rings true, but I just can't get on board with the metaphorical references you used.

 

[Behemoth]

I have removed the "Bad Troll Attempt" (poop) rating you've posted because seriously, everyone needs to learn how to deal with disagreement without flinging feces. There are other ratings you can use if you disagree. Reserve "troll" ratings for actual trollish comments, not for people posting well thought out (even if disagreeable) posts.

(edit to add: I can and will remove the ability to rate posts if this remains a problem.)

I find it funny you pick this post to make this statement on, when there are countless examples of other folks doing it, often without any justification at all, and from other individuals who do it far more often.

 

[AmberCutie]

I find it funny you pick this post to make this statement on, when there are countless examples of other folks doing it, often without any justification at all, and from other individuals who do it far more often.

This was just the final tipping point, going forward I'm going to try and police it harsher because it's beyond ridiculous. Removing your facepalm on my post too.

Edit to add/warn: I am not intending this to be a conversation point in this thread, so replies that don't apply to the actual topic of the thread are being removed to avoid derailment.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I have only banned silent viewers if I suspect them of capping. If you deal with cappers it's only logical if you know who consistently watches you but doesn't tip that they might be those people. Not that it'd necessarily stop them, but it might be a deterrent. I've had it before where capping magically stopped after a ban.

As for "what's the harm?" not everyone wants hundreds of viewers. For some they'd prefer a quieter room with a few really good regulars and deter people from capping etc. Maybe for others they have enough in their rooms that they don't care. In group I might ban someone if they kept flitting in and out paying very little to see me naked/play. I haven't done it but I guess it's kind of annoying, especially if you're a non nude model in public.
Everyone runs their rooms differently and cam for different reasons. If it annoys you that people watch you all the time and don't interact then that's up to the individual.

But yeah, if it were me I'd feel a bit upset/rejected. Just remember it's not personal and move on

 

[Bringeroflight]

You're comparing MFC to a social media service when it should be compared to a restaurant...

I contrasted MFC's block/ban feature against social media's equivalent and compared it's interpersonal aspects to businesses such as restaurants. I said, in not so many words, "It is more like a business than a social media site", which is exactly the sentiment you are expressing to me. We're agreeing. Admittedly, I did say quite a lot, so I can understand if the wall of text made things a bit less clear. More specifically, I had said that the banning function on MFC is treated like social media despite the fact that MFC is not social media-esque in interpersonal practice. The "comparison" I used to social media was specifically to note the differences, like holding blue and purple pieces of construction paper close together to make the differences stand out more.

I have removed the "Bad Troll Attempt" (poop) rating you've posted because seriously, everyone needs to learn how to deal with disagreement without flinging feces. There are other ratings you can use if you disagree. Reserve "troll" ratings for actual trollish comments, not for people posting well thought out (even if disagreeable) posts.

(edit to add: I can and will remove the ability to rate posts if this remains a problem.)

Wow, I REALLY like this Admin. Kudos, Amber. Seriously. I do not impress easily, and this actually made me stare in disbelief for a moment. I've seen loads of admins be fine with a "Whatever. Let them disagree. As long as nothing illegal or rule-breaking is happening, it is none of my business." mindset. Policing undeserved ratings? I applaud the micromanaging.

Edit: Got another "failed troll" rating. Not sure if it is the same one or not. Not sure how long they take to get removed. Just figured I'd mention it since I just saw it there.

While I won't ever really be ok accepting if a person is planning to NEVER tip the model(s) they enjoy on MFC, I can appreciate some of the sentiment of your post here. Especially the last section, I think that sometimes the freedom we have on MFC can cause us to overreact to things without considering consequences.

Also I will agree with Espi that the comparison of a bar/restaurant/performance being more appropriate than using a social media platform. Yes, the business model of "some people pay and others don't and it all evens out" rings true, but I just can't get on board with the metaphorical references you used.

Thank you for understanding. That really is my main point, to make things more fair for everyone. I certainly do not spite models just because I am not one, but I also do want to speak out about some of the imbalanced nature of the current setup of the site putting users lower on the hierarchy. Any business is a symbiotic relationship. Without product, there is no income, but with customers, there is no product bought. Both need to respect the other. Users need to respect that models work for money and deal with many people per day, but models need to respect the fact that their viewers are their income. Some of the most successful models are the really friendly, personable ones. That isn't mere coincidence. End of the day, my issue with the current system is that peramaban is too easy to abuse, which creates an imbalance between the suppliers and the demanders. Permaban deserves to be a feature, but make it less easy to abuse. For example, permaban could only be an option o be applied to accounts/ips with prior ban histories in that room. A model can ban for either 6 hours or 60 days, and when she does, a "mark" is put on that user's account/ip. After a certain number of either type of ban (say, 5 6-hour bans or 2 60-day bans, to minimize time abuse on the model's end), a permaban function becomes an option for that model to use on that account/ip. This would still allow a model to have power to ban users freely while still allowing a model to punish persistent users that actually EARN the permaban. Just to avoid models abusing this function by using a 6-hour ban, waiting 6 hours, then searching the user to ban it again just to rack up bans, the model would only be able to ban a user that has commented in the chat (each ban would obviously reset this). This would, again, limit the model's ability to abuse the mechanics while still allowing her to punish users that cause trouble. With all due respect, banning someone for sitting quietly in your room is a petty reason that adds to the "models have too much power" issue, so if you're a model that doesn't like when people are quiet, then...oh well. Users don't like being banned for petty reasons. Fairness requires some sacrifice, and when models have so much power, it makes sense that the sacrifice is coming from the model's end.

Of course, feel free to comment input and criticisms of the idea. It was just off the top of my head, and obviously nothing official, so by all means, share your thoughts on the idea whether you're for, against, or neutral on it.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I have only banned silent viewers if I suspect them of capping. If you deal with cappers it's only logical if you know who consistently watches you but doesn't tip that they might be those people.

I think you're wasting your time. The people capping you aren't the silent ones. They aren't even in your room where you can see them. Most likely they have an additional browser tab open with mfc not signed in and they are guesting you. So it's impossible for you to ban them. Even if you have them already banned, they could still cap you doing it that way. Or most likely they don't even have a browser open at all and are just recording your stream directly. Completely unstoppable and not worth the time being worried about.

 

[paige_orion]

Of course not. My*FREE*cams. I want to say this as respectfully as possible, but in the end, I'm disagreeing and that tends to cause friction no matter what, so fingers crossed. Tipping is an optional feature. I understand that models want to be tipped, and that is entirely reasonable, but tipping is not required for viewing. Tipping is required for making requests or aiding in reaching a goal. Just like no model is REQUIRED to show anything, no user is REQUIRED to tip. Do models have to LIKE people who do not tip? Of course not. Models work for tips, so it is understandable to desire tips, but there are plenty of models that believe that they have a right to demand tips and punish those who do not tip. If someone is being rude, then by all means, punish them, but if they have not said a single word in the chat, or have been nothing but friendly in the chat, then what have they actually done wrong? Also, give it a little extra thought. You're banning someone for not tipping. What does that accomplish? Banning them doesn't force them to tip you. It just eliminates the possibility that they will EVER tip. If someone isn't even chatting, then you're not even getting rid of a nuisance in the chat. You're literally only hurting yourself.

While I thought your posts were very well written and logical, I must disagree about the only "hurting yourself" aspect of banning non-tippers. Tipping is not optional for models. It is the way we pay bills. Rent. Eat. It isn't that we "desire" tips, as if it were some sort of luxury service, just a pleasant perk.... But it is our job. If people want us to continue to come online day after day, tips are not optional. They are a necessity. No one is going to continue to work a job for free. While I am sure that there are a few ladies out there who cam for the pure joy of it all - many also need tips to go along with that joy. I see a lot of freeloaders struggle to justify their freeloading habit, but 99.99% of them have zero intention of ever tipping. NOTHING a model will do will change that. If you have been a basic for 4 years... You probably aren't going to tip. If you are a premium who stays for hours a night but has never tipped a token for a year.... You probably aren't going to tip. Are there exceptions? Of course. But it isn't worth the hassle or the drain.

While no one is REQUIRED to tip, it can feel like a slap in the face for people to spend so much time enjoying your entertainment, while also thinking that you are not worth a dollar. I have seen the same faces sign into model rooms, night after night after night after night. Sometimes demanding free attention, sometimes just sitting back and watching while their model struggles to get tips. Never dropping a dime. It can be hard to watch. It can feel so disrespectful coming from people who return every single night, making comments about how amazing you are, how much you deserve to succeed, yet never thinking to drop a dime on you or trying to help you succeed. Those aren't supporters. Those aren't fans. While some freeloaders can be very mild and benign, I have seen a few true leeches.

That kind of behavior hurts the model. Freeloading can actually hurt your model. I have lost count of how many times I have heard models log off, frustrated and emotionally exhausted at trying to get the same freeloading faces to drop a nickel. Why would they continue to log in if they are not feeling appreciated? Why will they spend all of their time and energy to make an awesome show.... For a group of freeloaders? You say that models are harming themselves by banning freeloaders for freeloading... But actually, banning those people who can seriously improve a model's confidence. And bring positive energy into her room. Making room for supporters, fostering an environment where everyone chips in a little bit to create a wonderful atmosphere. Because tips are likely to beget tips - a room where everyone is throwing a few tokens in every few minutes is going to probably be a much funner place than a room where ONE person is carrying the countdown. If one person carries a countdown time after time, and a group of freeloaders gets to enjoy it... Well, tips dry up. The room can feel filled with frustration. And the model is the one who suffers.

You have said that no one is required to tip. And you are completely correct. But the model is also not required to allow you free entertainment at her expense. The model is not required to allow freeloaders to make them feel badly about their work. To bring negative energy to their rooms or their heads. Often times, I see one or two people clearing a countdown, and then a lot of people get to stay around and enjoy the show. Which is well and dandy, if the models allows it - but why should those non-tippers feel ENTITLED to see a free show without any intention of ever paying? It is a two way street. No one person is required to tip. But the model is also not required to allow them free entertainment.

Do I think models should demand tips? No. Of course not. But I also don't believe members should feel entitled to her time and energy and person without trying to contribute in some small way. Banning freeloaders can certainly be helpful, both for the model herself and for the atmosphere of her room. And if one doesn't even try to tip their regular model even a small little token, then I don't feel they deserve to complain when the model removes them from her world.

 

[Bringeroflight]

While I thought your posts were very well written and logical, I must disagree about the only "hurting yourself" aspect of banning non-tippers. Tipping is not optional for models. It is the way we pay bills. Rent. Eat. It isn't that we "desire" tips, as if it were some sort of luxury service, just a pleasant perk.... But it is our job. If people want us to continue to come online day after day, tips are not optional. They are a necessity. No one is going to continue to work a job for free. While I am sure that there are a few ladies out there who cam for the pure joy of it all - many also need tips to go along with that joy. I see a lot of freeloaders struggle to justify their freeloading habit, but 99.99% of them have zero intention of ever tipping. NOTHING a model will do will change that. If you have been a basic for 4 years... You probably aren't going to tip. If you are a premium who stays for hours a night but has never tipped a token for a year.... You probably aren't going to tip. Are there exceptions? Of course. But it isn't worth the hassle or the drain.

While no one is REQUIRED to tip, it can feel like a slap in the face for people to spend so much time enjoying your entertainment, while also thinking that you are not worth a dollar. I have seen the same faces sign into model rooms, night after night after night after night. Sometimes demanding free attention, sometimes just sitting back and watching while their model struggles to get tips. Never dropping a dime. It can be hard to watch. It can feel so disrespectful coming from people who return every single night, making comments about how amazing you are, how much you deserve to succeed, yet never thinking to drop a dime on you or trying to help you succeed. Those aren't supporters. Those aren't fans. While some freeloaders can be very mild and benign, I have seen a few true leeches.

That kind of behavior hurts the model. Freeloading can actually hurt your model. I have lost count of how many times I have heard models log off, frustrated and emotionally exhausted at trying to get the same freeloading faces to drop a nickel. Why would they continue to log in if they are not feeling appreciated? Why will they spend all of their time and energy to make an awesome show.... For a group of freeloaders? You say that models are harming themselves by banning freeloaders for freeloading... But actually, banning those people who can seriously improve a model's confidence. And bring positive energy into her room. Making room for supporters, fostering an environment where everyone chips in a little bit to create a wonderful atmosphere. Because tips are likely to beget tips - a room where everyone is throwing a few tokens in every few minutes is going to probably be a much funner place than a room where ONE person is carrying the countdown. If one person carries a countdown time after time, and a group of freeloaders gets to enjoy it... Well, tips dry up. The room can feel filled with frustration. And the model is the one who suffers.

You have said that no one is required to tip. And you are completely correct. But the model is also not required to allow you free entertainment at her expense. The model is not required to allow freeloaders to make them feel badly about their work. To bring negative energy to their rooms or their heads. Often times, I see one or two people clearing a countdown, and then a lot of people get to stay around and enjoy the show. Which is well and dandy, if the models allows it - but why should those non-tippers feel ENTITLED to see a free show without any intention of ever paying? It is a two way street. No one person is required to tip. But the model is also not required to allow them free entertainment.

Do I think models should demand tips? No. Of course not. But I also don't believe members should feel entitled to her time and energy and person without trying to contribute in some small way. Banning freeloaders can certainly be helpful, both for the model herself and for the atmosphere of her room. And if one doesn't even try to tip their regular model even a small little token, then I don't feel they deserve to complain when the model removes them from her world.

With all due respect, no model is required to get tips. Money is required for living, but the role of model is a role of chance. Do you need tips to get money to live? Of course. However, that does not mean users need to tip you. That is the drawback of such a service. Maybe you'll get tipped, maybe you won't. If you work as a waitress, you are not required to be tipped. No customer is obligated to tip. Even if you get paid less than minimum wage and need tips to survive, that doesn't mean the customers are "legally required" by the restaurant to tip. That's the risk you take by choosing that profession. Is it dark and unpleasant to accept? Sure. But again, that's the risk you choose to take.

If people want us to continue to come online day after day, tips are not optional

The mere fact that you used the word "if" is proof of the optional nature of the job. Again, models seem to be under the impression that they are owed tips. That is not true. Just like a stripper in a club or a waitress in a restaurant, you HOPE for tips. If you want a more stable income, then work a different job. Construction workers are under the risk of injury. Lawyers are under risk of being targeted. Models are under risk of fluctuating income. That's just how it goes. There is no nice way of saying this. If you don't like fluctuating income, then don't be a model. I'm not trying to sound rude or demeaning. That is just purely and simply the truth of the job. Just...look at the two following things you said.

Tipping is not optional for models.

While no one is REQUIRED to tip

Does anything else really need to be said? Your entire second paragraph aptly describes the nature of the job. It ISN'T secure. It ISN'T dependable. It ISN'T consistent. Again, that's the risk of being a cam model.

banning those people who can seriously improve a model's confidence. And bring positive energy into her room. Making room for supporters, fostering an environment where everyone chips in a little bit to create a wonderful atmosphere.

That is describing the model's reaction, not the fault of the user. It is like saying "It is your fault that I am offended." No, it is your choice to be offended. If I say "I like apples" and someone is somehow offended by that statement, it doesn't become my fault. It doesn't necessarily make it their fault, either. However, it was their decision to be offended by the statement, not mine, and therefor not my responsibility to amend my statement to conform to someone else's reaction to it.

You have said that no one is required to tip. And you are completely correct. But the model is also not required to allow you free entertainment at her expense

I never said she was. In fact, in an earlier comment, I explicitly stated "Users are not REQUIRED to tip, and models are not REQUIRED to be naked."

The model is not required to allow freeloaders to make them feel badly about their work.

Again, that is a choice of the model to feel bad. Another risk of the job.

Often times, I see one or two people clearing a countdown, and then a lot of people get to stay around and enjoy the show. Which is well and dandy, if the models allows it - but why should those non-tippers feel ENTITLED to see a free show without any intention of ever paying?

They don't feel "entitled" to see a show. They are reaping the benefits of others' generosity, such is the nature of the site. None of them (or at least the reasonable ones) EXPECT you to get naked without tips. They just aren't the ones tipping. So when others tip, they enjoy the rewards with everyone, like buying a round of beer for the bar. A similar example is a woman going to the bar without her wallet because she EXPECTS men to buy her drinks.

But the model is also not required to allow them free entertainment.

Actually, that is EXACTLY what is expected of a model. Not to give free entertainment in general, but to give free entertainment to those who do not pay because of the generosity of those who DO pay. Again, it is like one person paying the bill for everyone that goes out to eat. The restaurant isn't expected to give free food. They are expected to give food in exchange for money, regardless of the specifics of who gives them that money. Are the non-payers at fault for not paying? Of course not. One of the people was generous enough to take care of the entire bill so nobody else had to pay, and the restaurant isn't mad at the people that didn't have to pay because they still got the money they were owed for their services. That's how MFC works.

And if one doesn't even try to tip their regular model even a small little token, then I don't feel they deserve to complain when the model removes them from her world.

Again, like saying "Someone else paid for your meal, so screw you."

 

[Mila_]

Still, as a non-model, it can be very aggravating being targeted when I don't feel I've done anything wrong. Which is why I am very thankful for models that will contact a user before resorting to banning, if they can spare the time and effort.

I just want to say that your expectations and what I understand are your tipping habits don't match. I would never ban someone who is nice and tips me when they visit without an explanation, but I will also never take time to explain to a freeloader or someone who only pays when they have to why I am banning them if I do.

A cam girl's attention and time is what you pay for. If you want to have special treatment you need to tip the models well. And in camland "special treatment" is giving you the time of the day. Otherwise you have 2 options:

1) Suck it up

2) Visit models who are not as established and are more thirsty. They will probably devote more attention to you for way less and give you nice explanations for why they banned you, read your MFC mail, etc, when you don't tip and only pay for group.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

I think you're wasting your time. The people capping you aren't the silent ones. They aren't even in your room where you can see them

Not really, I wouldn't just delete people if I didn't have a hunch. I've genuinely caught cappers that way. Not big time cappers with efficient software. I'm talking about posting up on xhamster for whatever reason. A lot of cappers only record shows they watch and just aren't that organised.

So, edit to add -
I have had guys silently stalk me for years, and then, one day, they tip! I'm talking $20 basics. You never know. Not saying they tipped big, like 200 tokens, but still, it does happen!
Plus most of my biggest tippers stalked me for a bit before liking me enough to join in on chat and tip!
I wouldn't ever say never... But yeah if it bugs you then I don't think it really hurts the model. I mean models even lose or ban main tippers and still manage to earn the same so I doubt a few lurkers would make much of a difference if they had been lurking for a long time.

And yeah it does get kinda creepy after a while, I know we're camgirls and should be used to it and all, but I've been creeped out when members have known everything about a bunch of times they seemingly weren't around because they'd been silently stalking my room for months, even years previous. It can be a bit unnerving, so please guys, forgive us, we're only human!

 

[mynameisbob84]

I keep on reading this thread title as "MFC bans questions" and keep on breaking out in a cold sweat wondering how I'm supposed to ask models if they can open their bobs now.

 

[Bringeroflight]

I just want to say that your expectations and what I understand are your tipping habits don't match. I would never ban someone who is nice and tips me when they visit without an explanation, but I will also never take time to explain to a freeloader or someone who only pays when they have to why I am banning them if I do.

A cam girl's attention and time is what you pay for. If you want to have special treatment you need to tip the models well. And in camland "special treatment" is giving you the time of the day. Otherwise you have 2 options:

1) Suck it up

2) Visit models who are not as established and are more thirsty. They will probably devote more attention to you for way less and give you nice explanations for why they banned you, read your MFC mail, etc, when you don't tip and only pay for group.

This just sounds more outright angry and aggressive than anything resembling a reasonable reply. The whole post just sounds like an attack, not a rebuttal. However, I will humor it and rebut accordingly.

What it sounds like you're saying it "I'm a cam girl. I don't have to be a decent human being. You, non-model, are scum that must worship the very ground we walk on, otherwise leave us to our godliness." Models like to cling to the statement "Users should not feel entitled". And models should? "You came to see us, not the other way around." And you take your clothes off for money. Models like this have such huge egos that they take it as a personal attack when you tell them "People react better to being treated with respect." This model > users mentality is exactly the issue I wanted to address.

P.S. My first post has been getting many dislikes, ALL from models, and the few likes it got are from non-models. There is a clear divide there. Let that sink in that my "Models have too much power" is something the models want to contest. You treat users like scum and expect them to respect you.

 

[Yavin4MFC]

In general, I've observed models on MFC being pretty lenient when it comes to banning. It rarely seems random, always as a response to something someone has said. Chaturbate seems a bit different, the "So and So was banned and comments silenced" is pretty frequent in any room I've been to. I support models having full ban privileges, tho I'm not sure if room helpers should.

It was mentioned above that MFC is more akin to a restaurant than a social media platform. Along those lines...do you think MFC should have a functional equivalent of a "Better Business Bureau" or some sort of member protection/appeals service? It's something I've asked the Nood creators about and they are considering.

 

[Bringeroflight]

It was mentioned above that MFC is more akin to a restaurant than a social media platform. Along those lines...do you think MFC should have a functional equivalent of a "Better Business Bureau" or some sort of member protection/appeals service? It's something I've asked the Nood creators about and they are considering.

Definitely. As long as MFC is a business, it should be handled as such. Like has been mentioned before, it isn't a social networking service, and so it shouldn't be held to the same conventions. The same way any business is held to certain standards, MFC should have similar standards to clearly define the rights and allotments of the different parties involved with the site. Everyone should feel like they have agency in how they experience the site, as well as both models and non-models having equal footing to stand on.

 

[paige_orion]

The mere fact that you used the word "if" is proof of the optional nature of the job. Again, models seem to be under the impression that they are owed tips. That is not true. Just like a stripper in a club or a waitress in a restaurant, you HOPE for tips. If you want a more stable income, then work a different job. Construction workers are under the risk of injury. Lawyers are under risk of being targeted. Models are under risk of fluctuating income. That's just how it goes. There is no nice way of saying this. If you don't like fluctuating income, then don't be a model. I'm not trying to sound rude or demeaning. That is just purely and simply the truth of the job. Just...look at the two following things you said.

That is describing the model's reaction, not the fault of the user. It is like saying "It is your fault that I am offended." No, it is your choice to be offended. If I say "I like apples" and someone is somehow offended by that statement, it doesn't become my fault. It doesn't necessarily make it their fault, either. However, it was their decision to be offended by the statement, not mine, and therefor not my responsibility to amend my statement to conform to someone else's reaction to it.

"They don't feel "entitled" to see a show. They are reaping the benefits of others' generosity, such is the nature of the site. None of them (or at least the reasonable ones) EXPECT you to get naked without tips. They just aren't the ones tipping. So when others tip, they enjoy the rewards with everyone, like buying a round of beer for the bar. A similar example is a woman going to the bar without her wallet because she EXPECTS men to buy her drinks.

Actually, that is EXACTLY what is expected of a model. Not to give free entertainment in general, but to give free entertainment to those who do not pay because of the generosity of those who DO pay. Again, it is like one person paying the bill for everyone that goes out to eat. The restaurant isn't expected to give free food. They are expected to give food in exchange for money, regardless of the specifics of who gives them that money. Are the non-payers at fault for not paying? Of course not. One of the people was generous enough to take care of the entire bill so nobody else had to pay, and the restaurant isn't mad at the people that didn't have to pay because they still got the money they were owed for their services. That's how MFC works.

I realize that I am not going to change your mind. I realize that no matter how many models tell you that freeloading hurts them and their business, you will probably find a reason to justify it. For someone who shows such logic, you seem to be showing a surprising lack of empathy for the people whose business you are visiting, every single day. That isn't being a fan. That isn't being a valuable member of the community. In one breath you say that models are expected to perform for free (except for the generosity of others), and the next you are saying that they accept the risk of not being paid and are choosing to be offended. You don't want to pay and you want to see the shows, and yet you make it sound like the model's fault for expecting to be paid for her job once in a while. That kind of logic is just... flabbergasting to me and I truly, honestly cannot follow it. It makes no sense to me. Yes, I am offended when people take advantage of me and what I try to give to others. I am offended when people take advantage of my friends and the people who actually care enough to support their models. But if I had to choose, I would rather be offended when I see people taking advantage of others, than be selfish enough to be the person taking advantage of others with no qualms.

But in your example... We models are the restaurant. MFC may own the building we rent it in, but we are the restaurants themselves. We make the food. We each have a different theme. We set the tables. We spend our time creating a stunning feast for patrons to enjoy. We show up every single day and open the doors. So yes, the restaurant does get frustrated when customers come in night after night after night, drinking and eating our food, and telling us to our faces that if we didn't want people to eat our food for free, we shouldn't be offering it. Whaaaat?! The restaurant is totally allowed to be mad. I am literally sitting here and telling you that the restaurant does get upset, and yet you are still trying to justify it. By saying that it is our fault. Well, if I am a restaurant who offers delicious food and drink to everyone, I am sure as heck allowed to be frustrated when dozens of people come to my doors every day for YEARS and refuse to pay, and even worse - just wait around for someone else to pay for them.

The logic of your last post is the absolute definition of freeloading justification, and it truly makes me sad to see. I guess I have too much respect and empathy towards the models whose company I enjoy, who work so hard to plan events, who spend money in order to create a fun time for everyone... I want to see them succeed. I want to make them smile. I want them to recognize how much I appreciate them and their work and their presence. If someone does their job well, they deserve to be paid for it. I want them to be paid for it. I appreciate their shows, their conversation, their friendship, their persons - that I don't want them to have to quit their job.

But going back to the restaurant analogy... If I want to eat a restaurant, I don't go to one every single day in hopes of riding off of the coattails of someone else's generosity. That is disrespectful and practically the definition of entitlement. Feeling that you deserve to go to a restaurant and eat when you don't have any money, and just wait and wait and wait for someone to be generous. That's absolutely ludicrous. I don't know a single restaurant who would allow someone to come into their establishment every single day, take a seat, and they refuse to order even a single drink. For hours. Every single day. Just waiting for someone to buy them a meal. That is hurtful to the business, and they are well within their rights to kick out that person for loitering. Most restaurants do, in fact. Because it is better for their business. But I don't see masses of men going to fine restaurants every day in the real world looking for handouts - so why do so many people justify it on the internet?

If I cannot afford to eat a restaurant, I don't go. It's that simple. I have too much respect for the cooks, the waiters, and my fellow patrons to take advantage of them like that. Just because I want fancy food does not mean that I deserve it if I cannot pay. Or rather, if I have absolutely zero intentions of paying. If someone buys me food at a restaurant one day? I will return the favor the next time. I don't show up again and again and again, just waiting for the next person to come along to buy me something. It is absolutely mind-boggling. I cannot comprehend that kind of selfishness, and I am glad that I don't. In my opinion, you can't get any more entitled than that.

What is the definition of freeloading? According to the dictionary, "to take advantage of others for free food, entertainment, etc.". And that is what your previous post is justifying here. Taking advantage of the model's time and energy. Taking advantage of a few people with pockets... And showing absolutely no shame in it. If you never ever have any intention of tipping, but keep waiting for someone to pay the way for you to see the show, then you are taking advantage of another person's generosity. If you refuse to ever support a model, no matter how many times you visit, no matter how many smiles she has given you, then you don't deserve her amazingness. I hope she has true supporters who enjoy her restaurant enough to want to see it staying open, who want to pay for the food they eat and they drinks they drink, and not just take advantage of the generosity of other paying customers.

I think that makes me more upset. If someone does not think I am worth tipping, so be it! There are other rooms! But to see someone wait for a member to pay their way and take advantage of a member who just wants to show their support and appreciation for me... Freeloading off of their generosity... That upsets me worse than not being tipped. And I know many other models feel the same about their regulars.

Again... I realize none of this will change your mind. It's almost amazing how many times I have seen people come to a cam-girl forum and try to say that they deserve to enjoy all of what we offer, and yet also say that they never intend to pay and should not have to pay and imply that it is silly to expect to be paid - yet they expect to enjoy the show someone else pays for. It's wild to me.

We models aren't asking to be tipped every single day. Not at all. We give away a lot of free food and free wine and free soda. Because we're pretty darn awesome like that. We try to make ourselves a pretty classy establishment for everyone to enjoy, a community where everyone can stop in and find a smile. We just expect our customers who visit our restaurant and eat our food and drink our wines to... Sometimes... Occasionally... Chip in. They don't have to buy the entire bar a drink. Just buy a drink for themselves now and then. Or buy someone else a drink for a change. I really don't think that is too much to ask.

If people don't want to pay for a drink or eat at a restaurant... Y'know... Maybe they should consider just not going. Or not being surprised or offended when they get kicked out for continuously loitering and taking advantage of others.

I am sorry, Amber. I realize that this is derailing the thread. And we all know that my post isn't going to help, and we all know the justifications that will come next because we've seen it a thousand times, and it never changes. I'll try to resist replying again, I promise.

 

[yummybrownfox]

This just sounds more outright angry and aggressive than anything resembling a reasonable reply. The whole post just sounds like an attack, not a rebuttal. However, I will humor it and rebut accordingly.

What it sounds like you're saying it "I'm a cam girl. I don't have to be a decent human being. You, non-model, are scum that must worship the very ground we walk on, otherwise leave us to our godliness." Models like to cling to the statement "Users should not feel entitled". And models should? "You came to see us, not the other way around." And you take your clothes off for money. Models like this have such huge egos that they take it as a personal attack when you tell them "People react better to being treated with respect." This model > users mentality is exactly the issue I wanted to address.

P.S. My first post has been getting many dislikes, ALL from models, and the few likes it got are from non-models. There is a clear divide there. Let that sink in that my "Models have too much power" is something the models want to contest. You treat users like scum and expect them to respect you.

Yes, it sucks that you are visiting models who you feel treat members like scum. I hope you don't feel this way about all cam girls.

As for complaining about models "having too much power"...it's their chat room though. What a member sees as "a model having too much power"...the model may see it as finally having a job where she has control over what kind of people she has to interact with (Def. can't say that about those below minimum wage jobs where you're forced to deal with obnoxious, disrespectful, cheapskate customers).

If you feel that a model is behaving in a way that will cause her to lose viewers and cost her money, okay. Now you know that she isn't your cup of tea, and you can move on to a different model. As we've mentioned on here recently, there are models on MFC who can pretty much do/say whatever the hell they want (as despicable as me and you may think they are), and they will still have members sticking around (and tipping) for the show. Lol. Those models probably aren't gonna change their ways...especially if they're making money doing whatever it is they're doing.

Since it's MyFREECams, the good thing for you members is that you guys have the option to visit as many models as you want (since there is no limit to how long you get to sit/watch in a model's public chat) 'til you find one you're happy with.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I always thought the "free" in MFC was directed at models in the first place?

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I always thought the "free" in MFC was directed at models in the first place?

Nope. Aimed at enticing members to the site. If it was meant for models then it would mean you work for free and don't expect MFC to pay you.

 

[EspiKvlt]

If it was meant for models then it would mean you work for free and don't expect MFC to pay you.

No, more like "hey, you can use our service for free! "

 

[JoleneBrody]

Definitely. As long as MFC is a business, it should be handled as such. Like has been mentioned before, it isn't a social networking service, and so it shouldn't be held to the same conventions. The same way any business is held to certain standards, MFC should have similar standards to clearly define the rights and allotments of the different parties involved with the site. Everyone should feel like they have agency in how they experience the site, as well as both models and non-models having equal footing to stand on.

One of the most important values MFC holds itself to is allowing models to run their rooms as they see fit, from a social and personal standpoint. The model holds the power in her space. MFC is not a boss or an employer, they are a platform for independent contractors.
If you do not like this, MFC is probably not the right camsite for you.

As someone who has only banned one silent freeloader in the last year that I can think of, and that took 3+ years of being there every single day from the time I log on til the time I log off... I see your point, but I also will defend a models right to ban anyone who is making her feel uncomfortable in her work space for whatever reason.

She is not entitled to your money and you are not entitled to her boobs. Even though I'm not a big perma banner, I would leave MFC for another site immediately if they started to micro manage how and who I could ban.

 

[Carmita Bonita]

There is a camsite (can't think of the name maybe flirt4free??) where you are not allowed to ban as much as you like and are encouraged to basically suck it up and try to turn all users into paying customers and banning is considered only if you have exhausted all interactions with them and your score for the site goes down with banning someone as a final resort.

I'm sure the company thinks this is a good practice but if it was, more people would be working there/members would be using that site. (among other reasons it's a crappy site in general from most experiences I've heard but I was just using it as an example of a site that has less banning lol)

There is a reason myfreecams is the top choice for models to use. Whether a model is ban-happy, snobby, friendly, doesn't mind freeloaders or hates them--there is that freedom.

I don't feel like banning users kills business since if it is someone who is being detrimental to the room even IF they're tipping that kind of mood can piss a model off or make working unpleasant. Whether a user thinks they were being nice/normal/friendly and what not.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I feel like members should also know, that perma banning someone is not as easy as 6hr. It takes multiple steps to complete, after you issue a 6 hr.