Kids Harass the Bus Monitor

[Mirra]

I think a lot of you heard about this story but I didn't see a post about it anywhere yet so...



Some guy found the video on Facebook, uploaded it to YouTube, and has started a campaign to raise money to give Karen (the bus monitor who is harassed mercilessly by the children in the above video) a vacation of a life time. They've FAR exceeded their goal which is the silver lining to this story but the fact this ever happened is completely baffling.

As I was going through the comments on the video, there were many opinions expressed and I figured it'd be good to hear what others think. People tried to place blame on the kids, the parents, religion (or the lack thereof), and one person even said "the system" (which I assume he means the school system but maybe not).

Here's my take:
The way these kids treated this woman is atrocious. Blame lies on the kids and the parents. I can't imagine that these kids DON'T know better than this so they definitely must be held accountable for their actions. They also don't seem to have any qualms about people seeing how they behaved since the episode was recorded and shared on someone's Facebook. This leads me to believe the kids aren't used to there being consequences to their actions and that makes me suspect the parents have failed at raising them.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Shaun__]

I will not blame the parents or teachers, because I am nothing like my brother or sister. They were hellions, even though we had the same basic upbringing. You can only do so much for children, then you have to let them out into the world to learn on their own.

I think the responsibility is firmly in the shoulders of the children, I would recommend deleting their Facebook accounts for punishment, or better yet posting super embarrassing photos on it every day for the rest of the year.

 

[Bocefish]

I wish she (bus monitor) would have stood up for herself. That said, the kids need some serious punishment. Their parents should be thoroughly embarrassed and held accountable too. The parents should have to be bus monitors for two weeks. The school should suspend the kids for a two weeks, no bus privileges until next year and public apologies from the kids and their parents to start with.

The latest figure for her donation fund is over $300K now, there's always a silver lining.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[sweetiebatman]

That is absolutely disgusting. What the fuck has happened to society when they think it is acceptable to FILM that happening?! Let alone do it in the first place, then some of the dumb fuck comments on the Youtube Vid are just as bad

Personally I would agree with you Shaun, UP UNTIL the point where they do something like this, Then it is absolutely the parents responsibility to bring them back in line.

Its a very easy and throwaway line to say that it is Society's fault that kids are turning into the little shites you see here. I was never like this and I grew up not so long back in the 80's/Early 90s. In my opinion the gradual erosion of a family way of life is to blame, and there are many socio-economic factors thrown into the mix too.

Its a massive and complex debate to have on here and I would be interested to

 

[Nordling]

One can only be horrified, although we know that kids without discipline always act this way. In Indiana, an even worse incident where a bus driver was physically assaulted by 7 and 8 year olds:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/indiana-elementary-school-student_n_1434663.html

Lord of the Flies reigns when parents don't monitor their own kids' behavior. And sadly, I suspect the kids are sometime copying the behavior of their own parents.

 

[Shaun__]

The parents should have to be bus monitors for two weeks.

I think that would be great, but I did see one of the fathers. He said he started crying as he watched the video. He was probably wondering what he did wrong, and seemed like a caring parent.

The school should suspend the kids for a two weeks, no bus privileges until next year and public apologies from the kids and their parents to start with.

I think the kids would like all of those things, and that is why I would use Facebook as a punishment. They care about it, and it would hurt worse than any vacation from school and freedom from riding the cheese to school.

Personally I would agree with you Shaun, UP UNTIL the point where they do something like this, Then it is absolutely the parents responsibility to bring them back in line.

How exactly?

 

[sweetiebatman]

By whatever means they think appropriate, They brought these little cretins into the world, they should sort them out.

The only step the school should take is to expel them

 

[JickyJuly]

We live in a society that teaches children from a young age that they are special and that their actions are above consequence. When compassion for others and responsibility for ones' own actions are not learned and enforced for everyone, things are a mess. I think everyone in the school systems is afraid to stand up to students and parents. It's really out of control.

 

[Bocefish]

The school should suspend the kids for a two weeks, no bus privileges until next year and public apologies from the kids and their parents to start with.

I think the kids would like all of those things, and that is why I would use Facebook as a punishment. They care about it, and it would hurt worse than any vacation from school and freedom from riding the cheese to school.

I can guarantee you they wouldn't like it the way I would do it. Cell phone and computer would be gone for 2 weeks. The suspension would be no vacation either, plenty of tree stumps he can dig out, garage and basement to clean... and can walk to school for a week instead of the bus, if it's safe.

 

[sweetiebatman]

We live in a society that teaches children from a young age that they are special and that their actions are above consequence. When compassion for others and responsibility for ones' own actions are not learned and enforced for everyone, things are a mess. I think everyone in the school systems is afraid to stand up to students and parents. It's really out of control.

Jickyjuly, Mother of the year 2013 :thumbleft:

But I completely agree, Its not just in this area that society panders to those in the wrong, and looks for all excuses as to why people have done wrong rather than punishing the wrongdoing

Bleeding Heart, Namby Pamby, Liberals will be the end of society as we know it. There was nothing wrong with the old system!

 

[nancy_raygun]

If it makes anyone feel better on Karen's (the bus monitors) side, someone on reddit put together an indiegogo fundraiser to collect money to give her a really nice vacation. The amount of giving that has happened is a testament that bullies have no power anymore. If my paycheck for the second half of June is sent to me, I plan on donating some of my money.

http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein

 

[Shaun__]

By whatever means they think appropriate, They brought these little cretins into the world, they should sort them out.

The only step the school should take is to expel them

Saying they should do something is what politicians and unruly mobs say. In all honesty there is not much you can legally do to a child. Expelling them would probably just create four future criminals, and I still think they are young enough to try to save.

I can guarantee you they wouldn't like it the way I would do it. Cell phone and computer would be gone for 2 weeks. The suspension would be no vacation either, plenty of tree stumps he can dig out, garage and basement to clean... and can walk to school for a week instead of the bus, if it's safe.

I hate to admit it, but your punishment reminds me of my visits to my grandparents. It is kind of sad that that kids are so spoiled that things like this are punishments instead of responsibilities. While I never had to remove any tree stumps, I spent a lot of time sawing off tree limbs.

 

[sweetiebatman]

Saying they should do something is what politicians and unruly mobs say. In all honesty there is not much you can legally do to a child. Expelling them would probably just create four future criminals, and I still think they are young enough to try to save.

No, you misunderstand, I am saying it is a parents responsibility to do whatever they deem appropriate to punish that child. My worry is that because the kids have got to a point where they think that what they did was acceptable that there has been little discipline up to that point

We are gonna get into another debate about what is acceptable discipline for a parent to administer vs what the state deems acceptable. I'm my opinion the balance has swung too far the other way

 

[Shaun__]

No, you misunderstand, I am saying it is a parents responsibility to do whatever they deem appropriate to punish that child. My worry is that because the kids have got to a point where they think that what they did was acceptable that there has been little discipline up to that point

You have not spent much time around children have you? My mom just sent me a text saying she was happy 1 out of 3 of her kids turned out okay, so that having three kids was not a total waste. We had the same discipline growing up, and I was the only one who worked hard and made something of myself.

You can beat children into behaving sometimes, but even that is not guaranteed. Bocefish's idea of tree stump removal is probably the best thing to do with them, but suburbs are often lacking in that kind of thing.

 

[sweetiebatman]

No, you misunderstand, I am saying it is a parents responsibility to do whatever they deem appropriate to punish that child. My worry is that because the kids have got to a point where they think that what they did was acceptable that there has been little discipline up to that point

You have not spent much time around children have you? My mom just sent me a text saying she was happy 1 out of 3 of her kids turned out okay, so that having three kids was not a total waste. We had the same discipline growing up, and I was the only one who worked hard and made something of myself.

You can beat children into behaving sometimes, but even that is not guaranteed. Bocefish's idea of tree stump removal is probably the best thing to do with them, but suburbs are often lacking in that kind of thing.

I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my differing opinion means I have spent less time around children, for the record you are wrong

And as for the second point I did not advocate "beating" children, in fact "beating" children causes more problems than it solves (obviously) but there has to be a line. Up to 18 you are a legal minor and the responsibility of your parents, You are forgoing you responsibilities as a parent if you just shrug your shoulders and say "meh, I did all I could"

 

[Bocefish]

Everyone has different parenting styles just like every child has different needs. Children need discipline and boundaries to feel loved as much as they need safety and hugs.

 

[Shaun__]

I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my differing opinion means I have spent less time around children, for the record you are wrong

And as for the second point I did not advocate "beating" children, in fact "beating" children causes more problems than it solves (obviously) but there has to be a line. Up to 18 you are a legal minor and the responsibility of your parents, You are forgoing you responsibilities as a parent if you just shrug your shoulders and say "meh, I did all I could"

So what should they do then, and please do not just say it is their responsibility again? I want to learn what parenting secrets you have.

 

[Mirra]

No, you misunderstand, I am saying it is a parents responsibility to do whatever they deem appropriate to punish that child. My worry is that because the kids have got to a point where they think that what they did was acceptable that there has been little discipline up to that point

You have not spent much time around children have you? My mom just sent me a text saying she was happy 1 out of 3 of her kids turned out okay, so that having three kids was not a total waste. We had the same discipline growing up, and I was the only one who worked hard and made something of myself.

You can beat children into behaving sometimes, but even that is not guaranteed. Bocefish's idea of tree stump removal is probably the best thing to do with them, but suburbs are often lacking in that kind of thing.

My father's widow has two kids from a previous marriage. One is leading a productive life, has a beautiful wife he loves, and has just welcomed his first child into the world. The other is over 30 years old and has never managed to keep a job longer than 6 months. He lives off of other people's good will and spends a large percentage of money he can get his hand on buying drugs and alcohol without even having enough food to eat. Different experiences outside of the home can definitely alter who we become.

That said, the parents are responsible for taking enough of an interest in their children's lives to find out when things are happening outside of the home that cause a bad influence. It is the parents' responsibility to avoid playing the roll of the enabler of bad habits and rudeness. It is the parents' responsibility to provide a positive example. It is the parents' responsibility to levy punishments and not just allow things to happen without consequence. The world isn't going to put up with their bullshit and one day it's going to bite them in the ass and it may cost them way more than they ever expected.

If one of them was my child, I would start by absolutely shaming them. I would put them in her shoes in a heartbeat. I would try (because try is about all you can do in a situation like this) to illustrate to them just how pathetic it is to be a bully. After they were shamed they would be apologizing to her and they would lose privileges for a couple weeks and they would receive a promise from me that the next time I found out they treated someone with blatant disrespect, things were getting exponentially worse.

edit: Going back to the first part I posted, children can also deal with negative influences inside and outside of the home quite differently. From what I understand, the father of her two sons became quite the alcoholic and likely provided quite a bad influence. He was likely a contributing factor to the one son being such a failure.

 

[sweetiebatman]

I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my differing opinion means I have spent less time around children, for the record you are wrong

And as for the second point I did not advocate "beating" children, in fact "beating" children causes more problems than it solves (obviously) but there has to be a line. Up to 18 you are a legal minor and the responsibility of your parents, You are forgoing you responsibilities as a parent if you just shrug your shoulders and say "meh, I did all I could"

So what should they do then, and please do not just say it is their responsibility again? I want to learn what parenting secrets you have.

As, Boce has said, each child is different and requires different things but there are two constants LOVE and DISCIPLINE when one is to prevalent over the other then I believe there will be issues. When these issues arise it is up to the individual parents to deal with their children to deal with them as they see fit, there is no one hard and fast solution

I am all up for a debate but I find your condescending attitude towards my opinions, especially in the last post a little rude

 

[JickyJuly]

I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my differing opinion means I have spent less time around children, for the record you are wrong

And as for the second point I did not advocate "beating" children, in fact "beating" children causes more problems than it solves (obviously) but there has to be a line. Up to 18 you are a legal minor and the responsibility of your parents, You are forgoing you responsibilities as a parent if you just shrug your shoulders and say "meh, I did all I could"

So what should they do then, and please do not just say it is their responsibility again? I want to learn what parenting secrets you have.

I think it is important to remind parents that discipline is their responsibility. Everyone's kids are probably going to do something that embarrasses them at some point and makes them feel like a failure. It just seems like so many parents these days take that as an excuse to give up or look for someone else to blame. Maybe it isn't always all the parent's fault. Some kids are mentally ill and need help etc, but the responsibility for seeking help can't fall to a minor it needs to be sought by parents. Were it me, I'd 1st make my child apologize. That would be followed by loss of all fun privileges and major addition of chores (hello summer vacation of no fun and all learning!). :dance: If these kids are not already in counseling, they should be, and a counselor might be able to help the parents tailor their discipline to something that would work better. Sometimes, even with the best efforts, kids grow up to be turds. Parenting is never guaranteed to pay off, but it should always be an 18 year job that has as much attention as is necessary. As a disclaimer, I have no parenting secrets to speak of. I could be way off in my ideas, but I promise never to blame anyone else if my kid is a brat. Hehehe.

 

[Nordling]

How NOT to respond to bullies:

http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/18/get-real-teacher-turns-table-on-bully/

A teacher in a San Antonio suburb allegedly tells students to hit a 6-yr-old "bully" to show why bullying is bad. From Starting Point with Soledad O'Brien.

 

[Shaun__]

I am all up for a debate but I find your condescending attitude towards my opinions, especially in the last pose a little rude

Bocefish gave solid things to do. Some other people in the thread, like you, keep saying they should do something. I am not picking on you, I am picking on all the people who keep saying they should do something or it is their responsibility.

This is not some great never before seen act of cruelty by children. This is normal everyday kids being mean. Anyone who is a parent can fall into this exact thing. You can do everything right, and then your kid falls in with some bad kids. They just start doing the same thing the other kids are doing, because they want to fit in. They want to have friends.

I would like you, and the others, to put yourself in the place of those parents and tell me what is the correct course of action to take. How would you try to repair this? The largest failing of most parents is that they say their kid is good and would never do this kind of thing.

My niece is the nicest, most polite, and wonderful child I ever met. She also suffer from anxiety, that gives her a fear of punishment. When she is older this fear is going to make her seek out groups and fit into their rules to prevent punishment.

Her parents will not be able to follow her around school all day steering her away from the bad kids, it will depend on the random class assignments instead that decides who she will meet.

I would talk to them, and explain why what they did was wrong. I would then take the things they think are most important to them away, it is cellphones, internet, video games, and Facebook for this age group. Then like Bocefish said give them some physical labor to build character.

Now please tell me what you would do sweetiebatman.

 

[sweetiebatman]

I don't understand why you keep trying to drag me back to what I would do, its not relevent to the discussion that we were (initially) having we were apportioning responsibility for the childrens actions, not preventative measures once we had decided who was responsible!

I cannot possibly say what I would do in this situation without knowing the specifics of these children or thier home life, I can assume certain facts all I want but thats not going to help, nor can you say that taking away the things you have suggested you would take away would have any effect. You just don't know

My point, which you have taken completely out of context is that the LEGAL responsibility for these children lies with the parents and societies (which is my only real point of interest in this case) way of dealing with them is what really matters

Just to be straight, I am not talking about specifics I am saying the parent should take onus on what the punishment should be. We have had lots of good examples of it in this thread

 

[sweetiebatman]

No, you misunderstand, I am saying it is a parents responsibility to do whatever they deem appropriate to punish that child. My worry is that because the kids have got to a point where they think that what they did was acceptable that there has been little discipline up to that point

You have not spent much time around children have you? My mom just sent me a text saying she was happy 1 out of 3 of her kids turned out okay, so that having three kids was not a total waste. We had the same discipline growing up, and I was the only one who worked hard and made something of myself.

You can beat children into behaving sometimes, but even that is not guaranteed. Bocefish's idea of tree stump removal is probably the best thing to do with them, but suburbs are often lacking in that kind of thing.

Discipline for children is not a one way for all type of thing. You really have to do what is necessary to get through to that particular child. What works for one child may not work for their siblings. You have to figure out what each kid holds value in you and take it away - whether it's pride, privileges, etc. I never cared about being grounded because I didn't mind being alone, but my brother hated being grounded because he was a lot more social. If the lesson doesn't come with appropriate consequences that make them REMEMBER and LEARN for it, it really isn't going to matter.

If my daughter did this I would be so ashamed. Just off the top of my head:

I would first have her go to Karen's house and apologize to her face. Second, I would ask Karen to give me a list of all the chores she needs done around her house that she needs help with, and I would supervise my daughter once a week while she did those chores for her. I would also make her do a certain amount of hours of community service every Saturday at a nursing home. And finally, I would take away every privilege she has : her phone, computer, social life. Anything that holds any value to her. I would strip down her room to only the essentials. Bed and clothing. For months - not weeks. She would also not being using public transportation to get to and from school.

The punishment would be in effect until I was convinced that she actually regretted her behavior; not because of the punishment, but because of the shame she felt for being so hateful and terrible to another human being. I would slowly give her things back once she showed improvement, her cell phone and any computer activity would be the last things she would get back.

This I like!,Especially the bold part, This is a parent taking responsibility for thier childs actions and doing all they can to prevent it happening again!

 

[sweetiebatman]

Bocefish gave solid things to do. Some other people in the thread, like you, keep saying they should do something. I am not picking on you, I am picking on all the people who keep saying they should do something or it is their responsibility.

This is not some great never before seen act of cruelty by children. This is normal everyday kids being mean. Anyone who is a parent can fall into this exact thing. You can do everything right, and then your kid falls in with some bad kids. They just start doing the same thing the other kids are doing, because they want to fit in.

I am sorry, but as a parent I am willing to bet that this kind of behavior is not the first time these kids were "mean" and it was brought to the parents attention. This is not just "mean" behavior. This is downright CRUEL behavior. Their behavior escalated to this from some starting point. This kind of shit needs to be nipped in the bud when it starts and having the attitude of "kids are just mean sometimes" is likely the exact type of attitude that created these monsters.

Maybe it started with pushing their sister down and calling her stupid and the parents just saying "oh, he is just being a kid and a brother..." and never saying "No, that is wrong, you don't treat your sister like that."

If you can not teach your kids simple compassion then you are NOT doing everything right.

Shaun take note:

This is what I was talking about with responsibility, It is the events leading up to what I consider a quite frankly appalling act that we have seen here that is the mark of a parent, The ability to mould a child when they go off the rails and give them a strong moral compass and a sense of what is right and wrong

I know full well parenting is hard and there are no easy answers but sometimes you have to be firm

 

[JickyJuly]

I now have a Cammi crush. :love4:

 

[sweetiebatman]

There is a place here in Florida where I live that is referred to as "The Farm". Its an all girls "reform" school of sorts where troubled girls are sent when they have become more than a parent can handle. I have always openly said that if my daughter ever got so out of control that I could not handle her with every resource I could, I would send her there.

Trust me, my daughter has made some mistakes, but she KNOWS there are consequences for them. Even her little mistakes, not just the big ones. As they say, the punishment needs to fit the crime.

God rest my mother's soul, but she was a pretty lenient parent, so I have learned a lot from her mistakes. She had a wonderful heart and tons of compassion, so I never bullied or mistreated anyone, but I pretty much spent from age 13-20 doing nothing but sex, drugs and rock and roll. I am pretty sure I am a zombie, because I have no idea how the hell else I am still alive.

I think I was very lucky in the respect that whilst my mother was exactly like yours sounded Cammi, She was as soft as they came and always let us off the hook and taught me so much about other people, My Dad on the other hand was, whilst being very loving a strict disciplinarian when I did step out of line I took the consequences and am none the worse for it, in fact it has lead me and my brother to be the people we are today

We are very different people in some respects but those core values instilled in you by your parents never go away

 

[SoTxBob]

Cammi, write a book. "How to parent and discipline for those with no clue." :thumbleft: :lol:

.....turning sideways for a sec away from the little shitbag kids and how much they need to be "disciplined".... I sincerely hope if her donations are 300k+ that she not only takes a vacation but also quits that silly bus monitor job.
I also have to wonder, what exactly is her function? What can a grandma type with no authority do to actually achieve anything ? Here bus discipline is very simple. You mess up, the bus stops. The driver has a radio direct to the school cop who then is called to remove you from the bus. They let the kid sit "in custody" until the parents come to get them. Happens again, they lose bus riding privileges for the rest of the semester and should it happen a 3rd time, permanent loss of bus privileges. There were a LOT of parents squalking when that was implemented... however, across the district, bus incidents have gone down from 2 dozen or so a week to maybe one per month.
Indeed the pendulum of discipline has swung to far to the side when a middle school kid will hit an adult and then laugh and say "you cant touch me or I will have you arrested and get you fired." :snooty:

 

[Rose]

I couldn't even watch the whole clip. :crybaby: It just hurts to know that there are children in the world capable of that kind of heinous, cruel behavior.

If those were my children, or any of the children I used to nanny, the first thing they'd have done after getting caught was to issue a public apology. The second would be hard, physical labor until they were exhausted. Then I'd probably make them do things like Cammi suggested, do Karen's housework, mow her lawn, wash her house, etc. With the kids I used to nanny, their parents had me make them run laps around the house or run on the treadmill until they were tired and then they were forced to apologize to whoever they hurt. It was pretty effective, kiddos got their energy out and learned their lesson. It's just sickening to hear about all these news reports of CHILDREN behaving in such a disgusting manner.

Makes me want to wear these kids like a shoe. :-x

 

[nancy_raygun]

Cammi, write a book. "How to parent and discipline for those with no clue." :thumbleft: :lol:

.....turning sideways for a sec away from the little shitbag kids and how much they need to be "disciplined".... I sincerely hope if her donations are 300k+ that she not only takes a vacation but also quits that silly bus monitor job.
I also have to wonder, what exactly is her function? What can a grandma type with no authority do to actually achieve anything ? Here bus discipline is very simple. You mess up, the bus stops. The driver has a radio direct to the school cop who then is called to remove you from the bus. They let the kid sit "in custody" until the parents come to get them. Happens again, they lose bus riding privileges for the rest of the semester and should it happen a 3rd time, permanent loss of bus privileges. There were a LOT of parents squalking when that was implemented... however, across the district, bus incidents have gone down from 2 dozen or so a week to maybe one per month.
Indeed the pendulum of discipline has swung to far to the side when a middle school kid will hit an adult and then laugh and say "you cant touch me or I will have you arrested and get you fired." :snooty:

From what I understand, she wants to keep her job. She claims that she loves her job, but I honestly hope she does just live off the rest of the donations. My guess is she really enjoys being around the kids. Not those kids per se, but she was a teacher at that school for a while before she became a bus monitor. Not to mention, she probably lives alone and this gives her a reason to get out of the house.

Anyway, from what I have read, the police have been called into action about the situation. The kids may be looking at juvenile detention and/or community service. While I think the detention is a bit much, I am in favor of them serving a good amount of time doing community service with a focus on supervised help with the elderly.