Kids Harass the Bus Monitor

[Bocefish]

Donations to Karen are over $422K now :shock: She may be a millionaire before the donation window closes in late July. From the news story I heard, she's a retired bus driver herself and only does the monitor thing to help make sure the kids are safe.

 

[Nordling]

Donations to Karen are over $422K now :shock: She may be a millionaire before the donation window closes in late July. From the news story I heard, she's a retired bus driver herself and only does the monitor thing to help make sure the kids are safe.

She can hire Jesse Ventura to sit with her on the bus.

 

[Shaun__]

I am sorry, but as a parent I am willing to bet that this kind of behavior is not the first time these kids were "mean" and it was brought to the parents attention. This is not just "mean" behavior. This is downright CRUEL behavior. Their behavior escalated to this from some starting point. This kind of shit needs to be nipped in the bud when it starts and having the attitude of "kids are just mean sometimes" is likely the exact type of attitude that created these monsters.

This is not unusual behavior. I had the same basic thing happen to me when I had to ride the bus to school, and I saw it happen to other people as well. It was usually one ring leader who starts it, and the rest of his little gang would jump in trying to belong. Get the little followers away from the main instigator and they would be fine though. The reaction from people seems to be implying that they are unaware this kind of thing happens, and reenforces how shitty my childhood compared to theirs was.

 

[Nordling]

I am sorry, but as a parent I am willing to bet that this kind of behavior is not the first time these kids were "mean" and it was brought to the parents attention. This is not just "mean" behavior. This is downright CRUEL behavior. Their behavior escalated to this from some starting point. This kind of shit needs to be nipped in the bud when it starts and having the attitude of "kids are just mean sometimes" is likely the exact type of attitude that created these monsters.

This is not unusual behavior. I had the same basic thing happen to me when I had to ride the bus to school, and I saw it happen to other people as well. It was usually one ring leader who starts it, and the rest of his little gang would jump in trying to belong. Get the little followers away from the main instigator and they would be fine though. The reaction from people seems to be implying that they are unaware this kind of thing happens, and reenforces how shitty my childhood compared to theirs was.

You are talking about you yourself being a kid and getting teased by your peers, which is still wrong and still needs to be addressed swiftly. This was an ELDERLY WOMAN who was on the bus in somewhat of an authority role. Bulling an elderly woman to the point of tears is beyond normal. Most kids are taught to respect adults and typically are on their best behavior when adults are around. These kids clearly had ZERO fear of any consequence whatsoever. Kids who have this level of indifference have never suffered a consequence in their life. Or they are straight up sociopaths.

Tweens rolling their eyes and having a snotty attitude or sneaking out is "normal" part of growing up. This shit is just disgusting.

Agree. And just a step or two from overt violence, which if this hadn't been caught on camera, may have eventually evolved into.

 

[GreatDane]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet has been that if the parents were to discipline the children in a public setting that they will have more than one person calling the police department because someone feels that they are abusing their poor defenseless children... We as a society are placing the blame on everyone but where the blame belongs. Those children know better but have never faced any consequence for what led up to that situation.

Parents need to engage their children and make them aware of possible consequences of their actions. There are too many things as parents that we are not aware of going on when our children are not with us and too many people thinking some simple punishment is more than what is really is. ( swat on the backside, verbal confrontation, grounding) as Cammi mentioned, the punishment needs to fit the crime and each child handles punishment differently. My children are two completely different personalities and I have to handle each differently depending on what they did. Washing their mouths out with soap for saying something they shouldn't have works on one but not the other, a small dab of vinegar works on the other.

I am not saying that the punishment needs to border on permanent physical pain or embarrassment for the child but you have to fit the punishment to the crime they committed. Make them work off their mistakes by helping the person they did the wrong to, ALWAYS make them apologize to the person they did it to in person, face to face, not in a letter.

Bribery only works for the immediate problem but shows them that if they do this they get that big thing... too many do not take the time to spend with their children and it shows in the long run. Always show them love and compassion and if that means that a punishment needs to be meted out then make it fit the crime, never discipline when angry and always show them love after the punishment, there is no problem that a child causes that should make them feel that they have done harm to the relationship with their parents.

I'll drop it here and let you make your own decision on what YOU would do if you find out your child had done something like that.

 

[Bocefish]

I hope their parents make those little monster do more than this, but she doesn't want to see any of them again just yet:

Karen Klein -- the 68-year-old school bus monitor who was verbally abused by a gang of students in NY -- has FINALLY received an apology from 2 of the little jerks.

The statements of apology were written to Karen ... but have since been released by police.

One letter -- penned by a boy named Josh -- reads, "I am so sorry for the way I treated you."

Josh continues ... "When I saw the video I was disgusted and could not believe I did that. I am sorry for being so mean and I will never treat anyone this way again."

Another student -- identified as Wesley -- penned a note that read, "I feel really bad about what I did. I wish I had never done those things. If that had happened to someone in my family, like my mother or grandmother, I would be really mad at the people who did that to them."

Karen has said she feels bad for the little kids who bullied her.

http://www.tmz.com/2012/06/22/karen-kle ... ents-kids/

Police in the Rochester suburb of Greece, N.Y., were stepping up patrols around the houses of the middle-schoolers accused of taunting her. Police didn't name the boys but their purported identities leaked out on the Web.

Greece Police Capt. Steve Chatterton was compelled to warn against vigilante justice. One boy received more than a thousand death threats and commenters online were clear - and sometimes venomous - in their desire that the boys be severely punished.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/22/2 ... rylink=cpy

 

[SweepTheLeg]

To blame the parents as the reason why the kids did this is the exact reason why kids who grow up to be miserable members of society blame their parents to why they are the way they are. My parents worked all the time so after school my time was spent with babysitters, I had a tv and various video game system in my bedroom, I got to watch mature movies from a very young age, my parents never hit me ever. So with all that I could use that as an excuse to be a giant dickbag and show no respect to anyone?

These kids should be held responsible for their own actions, not their parents, society, religion, politics, etc. These kids did this and these kids should be punished for this. How does one get punished for this? Well one might simply say take away their summer- force them to help clean up their school and get it ready for the next year, if they don't show up or don't do a good job their responsibilities will only increase along with then having to help out around the school once the school year starts and not get home until say 5 at night as opposed to leaving at 3. I'd like to think being forced to have a full time job with no money to show for it and the summer vacation is taken away would be a nice place to start.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I didn't watch it for fear of being made to cry or get angry and want to hit things (namely those kids) but the aftermath is all kinds of awesome. It's kinda heartwarming to know that people (and a large volume of people at that) aren't so desensitized to this kind of thing that they can see it's competely inexcusable, and are willing to part with their own money to see that that poor woman (a complete stranger to them) comes out of the whole ordeal with something to be happy about. That's some tender shit, yo.

 

[Bocefish]

If parents aren't going to be responsible for raising their children to be decent human beings, they have no business bringing children into this world. It's their duty to instill certain morals and teach what is acceptable behavior and what isn't. 7th graders are more than old enough to know better, so they deserve the bulk of the responsibility for their behavior and should be held accountable. I still think all the parents involved should rotate bus monitoring duties for two weeks so they're more aware of what's going on.

 

[Shaun__]

You are talking about you yourself being a kid and getting teased by your peers, which is still wrong and still needs to be addressed swiftly. This was an ELDERLY WOMAN who was on the bus in somewhat of an authority role. Bulling an elderly woman to the point of tears is beyond normal. Most kids are taught to respect adults and typically are on their best behavior when adults are around. These kids clearly had ZERO fear of any consequence whatsoever. Kids who have this level of indifference have never suffered a consequence in their life. Or they are straight up sociopaths.

Tweens rolling their eyes and having a snotty attitude or sneaking out is "normal" part of growing up. This shit is just disgusting.

Your attitude is why some children are bullied until they commit suicide, constant nonstop torment, year after year, is not teasing. The only reason I am alive is because it takes a long time to strangle yourself with a slipknot, and I had second thoughts after six or seven minutes. I had to talk to a therapist after that, no way to hide the bruise. Children are much more vulnerable than an adults. That old lady on the bus was the adult responsible for maintaining order on that bus, and while this sounds mean she did not do her job.

 

[sweetiebatman]

With the greatest respect, what part of kids being taught discipling leads to them being bullied?, It is exactly the opposite that leads to endemic bullying and a complete respect for elders that is clear for all to see on the video

To cite Cammis "attitude" in this is completely wrong in my opinion

 

[Shaun__]

With the greatest respect, what part of kids being taught discipling leads to them being bullied?, It is exactly the opposite that leads to endemic bullying and a complete respect for elders that is clear for all to see on the video

To cite Cammis "attitude" in this is completely wrong in my opinion

getting teased by your peers

I am talking about this attitude. There is a difference between getting teased and bullied.

 

[sweetiebatman]

But you take that quote without the second part so it is completly out of context

The actual quote:

You are talking about you yourself being a kid and getting teased by your peers, which is still wrong and still needs to be addressed swiftly.

The second part clearly states it is wrong


With that kind of misdirection you should run for Government :lol:

 

[Shaun__]

With the greatest respect, what part of kids being taught discipling leads to them being bullied?, It is exactly the opposite that leads to endemic bullying and a complete respect for elders that is clear for all to see on the video

To cite Cammis "attitude" in this is completely wrong in my opinion

getting teased by your peers

I am talking about this attitude. There is a difference between getting teased and bullied.

Shaun, it appears like you like to just pick out bits and pieces of what people post and then twist it around to fit your agenda. It also appears that when people bring up valid points that contradict what you are saying you eventually start attacking them personally. Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension before you tell me my attitude is the reason why people commit suicide.

In every post in this thread it is abundantly clear how I feel about bullying and that ignoring it or chalking it up to "normal" or "usual" behavior is the reason why these kids escalate to such horrid behavior.

I pointed out that there is a difference between a peer teasing/bullying another peer and a 7th grader bringing an elderly woman to tears based on the usual inherent fear of adults that most kids have. I never once said either was normal, usual, excusable, or ok. In fact, I said the opposite of that.

As a parent of a 12 year old girl who was bullied to the extent of nearly having to change schools and that spends hours with her school making sure they enforce their no tolerance policy on bullying, I am very offended that you had the nerve to tell me my attitude is the reason people commit suicide.

You called what was done to me teasing.

 

[Rose]

You called what was done to me teasing.

I'm pretty sure that's not what sweetiebatman or Cammi said, but I could be misunderstanding. I'm pretty sure they both said it was wrong and not acceptable.

 

[Bocefish]

Sean, we don't know what you went through. However, you are being overly sensitive and misinterpreting what people are saying and taking it personally. Take a deep breath and maybe you will realize we are not trying to minimize bullying in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Mirra]

Heh... I am close to nominating CammiStar for MFC Mommy of the Year with how much she seems to "get it" when it comes to all of this. I think you're personalizing this a bit much and it's making what you read become misconstrued in your head, Shaun. I think everyone here agrees being bullied is a terrible feeling and that bullies need to be accountable for their actions. Some of us have different opinions on what restitution is appropriate for this particular situation but so far it seems everyone agrees the kids bullying Karen were in the wrong. Some of us put some blame on the parents and some of us do not but (correct me if I am wrong) otherwise we all agree how terrible it is for people to act like these kids did. No one is trying to diminish what happened to you growing up. If some people don't find it relevant, that's their opinion. I'm sure based on the emotion you've expressed in this post that their opinion does nothing to dissuade you of the relevance and that is fine.

Let's all take a deep breath in... hold it... a moment longer... and out. Feel your heart rate slowing? Civil discourse is the name of the game. Let's keep this discussion cleaner than the upcoming US Presidential Campaigns (not that we were anywhere close to that point yet).

 

[SoTxBob]

If parents aren't going to be responsible for raising their children to be decent human beings, they have no business bringing children into this world. It's their duty to instill certain morals and teach what is acceptable behavior and what isn't.

Completely 100% agree.. Sadly tho, many parents are themselves totally clueless and many times "dickwads" themselves..... it requires no parenting instruction to breed at a young 'knowitall' age either.
As a blatant example.. listen to the girls talking about MFC members and lack of basic manners.




:mrgreen: Somebody make Cammi a banner for "Mother of the Year".

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Question-If the parents do raise their kids to show respect and teach them right and wrong and spend a proper amount of time with them AND STILL the kid turns out to be Baron VonDickBag, is it the parents fault STILL? Can't people just turn out to be assholes on their own?

 

[Bocefish]

Question-If the parents do raise their kids to show respect and teach them right and wrong and spend a proper amount of time with them AND STILL the kid turns out to be Baron VonDickBag, is it the parents fault STILL? Can't people just turn out to be assholes on their own?

In a word, yes, unless they have exhausted every possible solution.

 

[SweepTheLeg]

I humbly disagree. That's like saying The parents get credit for how well the kid turns out when they were abusive and lazy and craptacular.

 

[Bocefish]

I humbly disagree. That's like saying The parents get credit for how well the kid turns out when they were abusive and lazy and craptacular.

Are you saying parents have no influence and their children will be who they are regardless?

 

[SweepTheLeg]

Not zero influence, but are you saying parents have all the influence on the child and all the good kids come from good parents and all the bad kids come from bad parents? I can only imagine how horrible Hitler's mom was.

 

[Nordling]

I humbly disagree. That's like saying The parents get credit for how well the kid turns out when they were abusive and lazy and craptacular.

Are you saying parents have no influence and their children will be who they are regardless?

I would say they have enormous influence, and influence that lasts a lifetime. However, there will always be kids who end up being serial murderers who had "perfect" parents and kids who end up being major philanthropists who had parents were evil pieces of human garbage. Humans are not robots with computer minds that can be perfectly programmed; at best we are creatures who, HOPEFULLY, respond to good upbringing and become positive citizens ourselves. But there are no guarantees.

 

[Bocefish]

Child psychology is extremely complicated and I am way out of my depth even attempting to pretend knowing anything about it. I do know that a child being raised by two loving parents has a much better chance of growing into a well adjusted adult.

 

[LadyLuna]

I don't think anyone is saying that the parents are the only factor in how an adult turns out. I think they are saying that parents are supposed to be the biggest factor in how a child behaves while they are still children.

A parent has legal responsibilities for a child's actions all the way up until the child is not their dependent anymore. This means until I was 6.5, my biological parents were responsible for my actions. The for half a year, a foster family was responsible for my actions, then for another two years, a different foster family, then for another two years, a third foster family, and on and on and on, until I turned 18 and moved out. Only at 18 did I become the legal responsible party for my own actions.

This does not mean that the parents are not to teach the kids responsibility for their actions. What it means is that when a child misbehaves, society is to lay the blame on the parents, but the parents are to discipline their child. But when the child turns 18 (in America, anyway), or becomes and emancipated minor, the responsibility stops resting on the parent's shoulders.

So basically, until the child is 18, the parent is supposed to act as a buffer for the child, taking the blame in public but reprimanding the child in private. Unfortunately, too many people have forgotten that this is how it's supposed to work.

Statistically, having gone through foster care, I should've dropped out of high school and be living solely on welfare right now, if not being in prison outright. I'm proud to say I beat the statistics, but that is not solely from my own self. Some credit lies in my biological parents, who taught me that knowledge is important and learning is fun, as well as that every person deserves love and respect. Some credit lies in my adoptive parents, who enforced the idea that good grades are a good thing to have, and tried to teach me how to handle money.

But ever since I graduated college, every decision I have made has been mine and mine alone. Sure, it rests on the things my parents taught me, but it is still mine. My first sexual partner taught me that. He told me "Starting now, you can do whatever you want with your life. Everything you do from this point is on you."

I have been exceedingly lucky in who I've had to support me over the years.

 

[Shaun__]

Jesus Christ, my entire post, and that is what you took from it?????? That I used the word teasing instead of bullying????

Tease and bully mean different things. They have completely different connotations, and can not be used interchangeably. All I know is what you type.

As a parent of a child who had a problems in school you should know that kids almost never get help, because adults minimize the actions of the offending child in their minds. They say they are just teasing, it is part of growing up, stop tattling, or they outright ignore it. Then when the child hurts themselves or others they wonder why it happened. My past is my past and does not bother me, but it infuriates me when people diminish the bulling of children, because I do not want anybody else to go through what I did. I will accept that you did not do it intentionally, but I will reiterate that diminishing the things done to children instead of helping them causes horrible problems. I will also apologize to you about my other post, I should have phrased that better, but I was mad.

I think most people can read my thread in it's entirety and see that I was not minimizing what happened to you but stating that kids usually are afraid of adults and don't treat them in the same manner that they treat their peers. That bullying/teasing is WRONG and needs to be punished in ANY capacity, but that when kids start bullying adults they have zero fear of consequence.

Why would they fear an adult, who sits there and does nothing to stop them? I doubt that was the first time they had misbehaved on the bus. They had probably learned that there would be no consequences for doing things on the bus, because the rules were not enforced strictly.

Children do not fear adults, they fear authority figures.

 

[Shaun__]

First of all, I was not even talking about these specific kids when I made that statement. I made it very clear in my original post that most kids who actually have consequences in their lives would not of even dreamed of doing something like this because they are taught to respect adults.

Small children tend to respect adults, but once they get older they start asking questions and testing boundaries. It was so sad when my nephews got to that age. I was the responsible father figure in their lives, and it was often my job to get them to behave and teach them why things are wrong. I never hit them, but it is easy to loom and look serious. Now I have to actually give them reasons, and argue when I get called in to do that. They had horrible parents, but they are turning out acceptably so far.

There are lots of kids that fear misbehaving in front of adults because they are taught to respect adults and there are typically consequences for their misbehavior in their every day lives. That is what I meant by "fear" adults. Yes, you are right most kids also fear authority. I summarized in that paragraph that you snipped, but in my earlier post I mentioned more specifically that kids are usually taught to respect their elders - i.e "adults". Most kids view adults as automatically being in a position of authority because they are in fact adults. You notice in my threads I say "usually" and "most".

These are middle school kids and like I said that respect stuff gets dropped at puberty for most children. You ever try to tell a teenager something? You know they are making the same mistakes you did, but they insist on ignoring everything you tell them. Nobody told me stuff growing up, so I tried to be better about sharing my life lessons. Total waste of my time, but I still do it just in case it works one day. The only reason most teenagers behave is fear of punishment, and if they know there will be none then they will act up. I do not think they had any consequences for misbehaving on the bus. I do not think they even informed the parents, or school officials when things happened. The bus monitor gave up her status as an authority figure, by allowing things to go unpunished.

What is really strange about this entire situation is it was you who suggested a few times in this thread that it was normal everyday kid behavior and "usual" for this type of stuff, and my response was that is is not normal and should NOT be ignored or minimized. It was you who appeared to be minimizing it the first place, calling it "usual" behavior which led to my posts.

I never said I approved of this behavior, but it is normal behavior. Corrective action should be taken when it happens, but groups of kids are cruel. The bus monitor says the same basic thing, when asked if they were bad kids. "Not deep down. But when they get together, things happen," she said. Everybody seems to be shocked this happened, but like I said this kind of thing happens all the time. I dislike people sensationalizing things, did you know those kids are getting death threats now? I do not want them bullied anymore than the people they hurt were. That is what happens when you blow things out of proportion. This should have been calmly taken care of, the parents should have been told and a punishment decided on. Instead it was put all over the media to get ratings. These kids are not monsters, and they are still at the point in their lives caring people can nudge them towards being productive adults.

It seems you are dissecting my posts and taking specific words and phrases out of context just to find things to argue or disagree with. It's a bit on the badgering side.

I was offended by your use of the word tease, and agreed with the other parts. If I pull out one thing it is because that is what i have a problem with. You said, "You are talking about you yourself being a kid and getting teased by your peers" I was beaten and verbally assaulted for years by my peers, and that is why I was offended. When I was a child I prayed for it to stop, then I prayed for it to stop hurting, and then I prayed for death. I am an atheist now, and find that hard work can take you places and change your world.

 

[sweetiebatman]

Shaun, It is almost as if you have decided what you want to believe based on your own misreading and selective quoting of Cammis wording. You are talking to a woman with a girl at school right now. For me, her words are more relevant than many, including mine as she is dealing with the situations we theorise about RIGHT NOW in real life. We can make all the sandbox theories or suggestions about this case that we want but she's dealing with them. She also makes a lot of common sense remarks you glide over

You again go on to make a lot of sweeping statements to support your own argument

Parents SHOULD be the authority figures. Kids should be respectful of adults because they are the "parent" in any given situation. These are values that should instilled by the parents or guardians

If i'm honest I find your arrogance, inability accept what others are saying and some of the glib comments used to try belittle the person you are "debating" breathtaking. The throwaway manner you apologised for suggesting someone was responsible for kids committing suicide was quite frankly appauling.

 

[Shaun__]

Shaun, It is almost as if you have decided what you want to believe based on your own misreading and selective quoting of Cammis wording. You are talking to a woman with a girl at school right now. For me, her words are more relevant than many, including mine as she is dealing with the situations we theorise about RIGHT NOW in real life. We can make all the sandbox theories or suggestions about this case that we want but she's dealing with them. She also makes a lot of common sense remarks you glide over

Like I said in my last post, I did not have a problem with the other parts of her post. This may be difficult for you to understand, but I do not have to accept an entire post just because it is 99% right. If I feel strongly about the last 1% I will say something. When I cut out parts of a quote I either agree with it, or decide to not to argue about it.

You again go on to make a lot of sweeping statements to support your own argument

Parents SHOULD be the authority figures. Kids should be respectful of adults because they are the "parent" in any given situation. These are values that should instilled by the parents or guardians

Society says kids should do those things, but nobody asks the kids if they wanted too. Kids are not programmable robots, they have free will and decide their own course of action to take. Besides respect is earned, not given because you avoided death for X number of years.

If i'm honest I find your arrogance, inability accept what others are saying and some of the glib comments used to try belittle the person you are "debating" breathtaking. The throwaway manner you apologised for suggesting someone was responsible for kids committing suicide was quite frankly appauling.

I never meant she was doing that, I meant the attitude of diminishing what happens to children contributes to it. I should have phrased that better, but I was very angry. I am an overprotective person at times, and sometimes I overreact. She says I misunderstood her intent and I accepted that. Sometimes words sound different to people based on associations they formed with them in their life. As to my apology, I never believe people who try to convince me they are apologetic. I like to keep them short and simple.