Is it ok to say "no"?

[Moonbase1]

Hi,
A friend who is a cb model has had an experience where she has done a private, been asked to take her panties of, declined (she is a "panties on" model) and then received a thumbs down.
She's quite upset by this. She says she's asked cb support in the past and been told that if a customer pays their 25 tokens then they are permitted to vote as they choose.
This does not seem right to me - "no should mean no", and effectively endorsing the thumbs down leaves a model feeling less than supported by cb on a very important matter. It also leaves the model disinclined to raise matters with support where they do not seem to be performing the roll appropriately.
Can I ask for comments please?
Thanks.

 

[Highlander884]

Its a shitty thing, and while I'm guessing, I'm pretty certain that the majority of thumbs down are from guys who are sulking that the girl won't do something that isn't on the menu.
There nothing u or the girl can do about it, but the good news is that it lasts only 3 months before it's removed, it's not permanent.

 

[Vixxen81]

It also has no weight on rank or placement on the site and you are more than welcome to hide your "score." I have three thumbs down. One, because I told him I didn't appreciate his sense of humor. Another because I refused to answer his PM because he wasn't a fan club member and the third because I refused to open his cam.

 

[MarieElise]

It also has no weight on rank or placement on the site and you are more than welcome to hide your "score." I have three thumbs down. One, because I told him I didn't appreciate his sense of humor. Another because I refused to answer his PM because he wasn't a fan club member and the third because I refused to open his cam.

All 3 immature af reasons to give someone a thumbs down imo.

 

[Vixxen81]

All 3 immature af reasons to give someone a thumbs down imo.

I totally agree. I've hated that system since they first introduced it -- felt very high school-ish to me. I feel like you should only be able to give a thumbs up if you tipped less than 100 tokens.

 

[tokensarentforkids]

Could be deserved if she doesn't mention it before accepting the private.

 

[Vixxen81]

Could be deserved if she doesn't mention it before accepting the private.

Not every guy who hits that private show button asks first. Happens to me a lot and while I stop them and discuss it first, not every model will. If he doesn't ask first, that's his fault not her's.

 

[D_A_X]

As a non-explicit model I am VERY clear about what I will and will NOT do in a private, BEFORE accepting any privates. I never assume a member knows just from my menu options. Most members don't bother to read or ask and since I don't like to mislead anyone I always say it up front. That being said, if I were her, just use the 'hide' feature as mentioned above.

 

[Vixxen81]

I check mine every day and the two I received yesterday were "Great cam model!" and "Awesome lady!" So there will be lots of those too and they'll brighten her day.

 

[Moonbase1]

Could be deserved if she doesn't mention it before accepting the private.

Even if they discussed it before... No means no - the model should have the right to decide what she wants to do right up to the moment before she does it, regardless of what might have been agreed before.

 

[Ex0byte]

Even if they discussed it before... No means no - the model should have the right to decide what she wants to do right up to the moment before she does it, regardless of what might have been agreed before.

I'm just a viewer on SC so maybe shouldn't stick my nose in, but I could not agree more. From my experience, the vast majority of models have a pretty good set of things that are willing to do in private / exclusive listed on their profile which literally takes a couple of minutes to glance over. If it's not on there, you should be discussing that prior in any case so that you understand the model's boundaries and what their show is meant to be.

The only scenario I can really imagine that I personally might be upset about would be a situation where we had planned something and were both onboard with it, 30 minutes goes by in private maybe working up to that, and then she got cold feet for whatever reason. I would probably not be happy about that, but at the end of the day I'm not about to try to coerce or guilt trip another human being into doing something they're not comfortable with, period. That scenario has never happened to me in about 1.5 years of being active on the cam site I use btw. Sorry, I really felt compelled to get that out there because no one should feel guilty or upset about maintaining their boundaries about what they are willing to do on cam.

 

[BlackWizard]

My " favorite' thumb down. i was using lovense domi and was one man who wanted edging me so he was sending 1, 1, 1,1, 1, 1 and then another man joined tipping and started sending crazy patterns, so the guy from 1, 1,1 got mad and i got thumb down
Place 2 : Was a man violet but he never ever do nothing, so after 10th time i told him that would be nice to be a bit more active (i saw he always have many tokens) if he every time watching my shows , once in life he tipped for flash pussy so i did it , and 5 minutes after i was taken pvt with one of my best regular. And i got thumb down with comment; demanding and then leaving Well yea i should stay in open chat forever for those 65 tkn and reject pvt for few k tokens

 

[hawkm00n]

Even if they discussed it before... No means no - the model should have the right to decide what she wants to do right up to the moment before she does it, regardless of what might have been agreed before.

Are you saying it is OK to agree to do something, and accept payment for it, but then refuse to do it?

 

[Vixxen81]

Are you saying it is OK to agree to do something, and accept payment for it, but then refuse to do it?

Yes.

 

[hawkm00n]

That sounds like scamming. I can't think of any other situation where it would be OK, so why is it OK for camming?

 

[Maxi]

In any walk of life you can accept payment for a service and decide not to do it and then refund the payment.

 

[Vixxen81]

That sounds like scamming. I can't think of any other situation where it would be OK, so why is it OK for camming?

I can withdraw consent at any time. My body, my room, my call.

 

[Marceline]

Are you saying it is OK to agree to do something, and accept payment for it, but then refuse to do it?

That sounds like scamming. I can't think of any other situation where it would be OK, so why is it OK for camming?

There's a difference between agreeing to do something and accepting payment with absolutely no intention of following through with it vs agreeing to do something with the intention of doing it, accepting payment and then something happening that makes you uncomfortable with the situation and withdrawing consent.

This isn't something that is totally exclusive to camming. Say someone pays a contractor a consultation fee, which also acts as a down payment for services, for some sort of huge home renovation. The contractor goes to the house and there is Nazi paraphernalia hanging up all over the walls. The contractor then decides they do not want to do business with that person. Or, someone pays for a gym membership. They go to the gym and start yelling at other members or get into a fight. They are then banned from the gym and there membership is non-refundable. Neither of those situations would be labelled as scamming.

But with the sexual aspect of camming, consent is paramount, as with any sexual situation. Without consent, it's coercion. And there's tons of reasons why someone can decide to suddenly withdraw consent. They agreed to a certain type of show and the member decides to start making comments that makes the model uncomfortable. You look at your phone and see you've gotten a text with bad news that puts you out of the mood. You unexpectedly started your period. The show you agreed to ends up being physically painful. I wouldn't say withdrawing consent for those, or really whatever other reason, is scamming.

 

[AmberCutie]

There's a difference between agreeing to do something and accepting payment with absolutely no intention of following through with it vs agreeing to do something with the intention of doing it, accepting payment and then something happening that makes you uncomfortable with the situation and withdrawing consent.

This isn't something that is totally exclusive to camming. Say someone pays a contractor a consultation fee, which also acts as a down payment for services, for some sort of huge home renovation. The contractor goes to the house and there is Nazi paraphernalia hanging up all over the walls. The contractor then decides they do not want to do business with that person. Or, someone pays for a gym membership. They go to the gym and start yelling at other members or get into a fight. They are then banned from the gym and there membership is non-refundable. Neither of those situations would be labelled as scamming.

But with the sexual aspect of camming, consent is paramount, as with any sexual situation. Without consent, it's coercion. And there's tons of reasons why someone can decide to suddenly withdraw consent. They agreed to a certain type of show and the member decides to start making comments that makes the model uncomfortable. You look at your phone and see you've gotten a text with bad news that puts you out of the mood. You unexpectedly started your period. The show you agreed to ends up being physically painful. I wouldn't say withdrawing consent for those, or really whatever other reason, is scamming.

 

[hawkm00n]

In any walk of life you can accept payment for a service and decide not to do it and then refund the payment.

Absolutely no problem with that, and the bit that makes it OK is refunding the payment.

There's a difference between agreeing to do something and accepting payment with absolutely no intention of following through with it vs agreeing to do something with the intention of doing it, accepting payment and then something happening that makes you uncomfortable with the situation and withdrawing consent.

This isn't something that is totally exclusive to camming. Say someone pays a contractor a consultation fee, which also acts as a down payment for services, for some sort of huge home renovation. The contractor goes to the house and there is Nazi paraphernalia hanging up all over the walls. The contractor then decides they do not want to do business with that person. Or, someone pays for a gym membership. They go to the gym and start yelling at other members or get into a fight. They are then banned from the gym and there membership is non-refundable. Neither of those situations would be labelled as scamming.

But with the sexual aspect of camming, consent is paramount, as with any sexual situation. Without consent, it's coercion. And there's tons of reasons why someone can decide to suddenly withdraw consent. They agreed to a certain type of show and the member decides to start making comments that makes the model uncomfortable. You look at your phone and see you've gotten a text with bad news that puts you out of the mood. You unexpectedly started your period. The show you agreed to ends up being physically painful. I wouldn't say withdrawing consent for those, or really whatever other reason, is scamming.

There's definitely a difference between a situation where everyone is acting in good faith and a situation where that's not the case.

The contractor in your example would presumably refund the payment because they aren't going to provide the service? (Leaving aside that the example used Nazi memorabilia, which illustrates your point pretty well, the issue that makes the contractor uncomfortable could be something else entirely). The contractor is entitled to withdraw their service - but they aren't entitled to keep the payment that was made in good faith (unless the terms of their original agreement said something like 'I don't work for people who like Nazis and by entering this agreement you declare that you aren't someone who likes Nazis').

However, the example of the gym is one where the member's own behaviour leads to them being banned (and losing their payment). So they are probably breaching the rules they signed up to (and possibly the law). That's more about consequences of their own misbehaviour rather than whether anyone is acting in bad faith.

I guess your example of the member making comments that makes the model uncomfortable is similar to the gym membership situation. And in the example where doing what the member asked for is painful, assuming there was a good faith attempt to perform the service, there's no scam and it's 100% understandable why the model would stop.

But in the other camming situations you mention, the member hasn't done anything wrong (and the model hasn't acted in bad faith either). But, if the model keeps the members money and the member doesn't get what they paid for, the outcome is the same as if there was a deliberate scam. But @Maxi made the only comment I've seen that talks about making things right for the member when everyone has been acting in good faith.

I seem to have rambled on a bit, but hopefully that all makes sense.

 

[Vixxen81]

Stripchat is the only site I'm aware of where you can refund a user. You can give tokens back on CB if the user is age verified to receive tokens, otherwise your hands are kind of tied. That said, tipping on Chaturbate is at your own risk and always has been. The TOS even states that you cannot tip and expect a "specific thing" in return for those tips. Granted we all know that's what we're doing -- tipping for actions/content etc, but that's the loophole. And also why the voting system exists.

 

[Marceline]

Absolutely no problem with that, and the bit that makes it OK is refunding the payment.


There's definitely a difference between a situation where everyone is acting in good faith and a situation where that's not the case.

The contractor in your example would presumably refund the payment because they aren't going to provide the service? (Leaving aside that the example used Nazi memorabilia, which illustrates your point pretty well, the issue that makes the contractor uncomfortable could be something else entirely). The contractor is entitled to withdraw their service - but they aren't entitled to keep the payment that was made in good faith (unless the terms of their original agreement said something like 'I don't work for people who like Nazis and by entering this agreement you declare that you aren't someone who likes Nazis').

However, the example of the gym is one where the member's own behaviour leads to them being banned (and losing their payment). So they are probably breaching the rules they signed up to (and possibly the law). That's more about consequences of their own misbehaviour rather than whether anyone is acting in bad faith.

I guess your example of the member making comments that makes the model uncomfortable is similar to the gym membership situation. And in the example where doing what the member asked for is painful, assuming there was a good faith attempt to perform the service, there's no scam and it's 100% understandable why the model would stop.

But in the other camming situations you mention, the member hasn't done anything wrong (and the model hasn't acted in bad faith either). But, if the model keeps the members money and the member doesn't get what they paid for, the outcome is the same as if there was a deliberate scam. But @Maxi made the only comment I've seen that talks about making things right for the member when everyone has been acting in good faith.

I seem to have rambled on a bit, but hopefully that all makes sense.

For the contractor example, I don't think most would refund it. A lot of general businesses that require consultations before services are rendered will apply that fee towards services. However, that fee is usually non-refundable, even if they end up not providing whatever services they offer. In that example, the contractor took the time to go to the house. Time they could have spent elsewhere. In business, time is money. I think it's similar with camming. I'll have guys who tip me just to read their custom video requests, for example. Even if I don't end up agreeing to the custom, I still spent time reading it.

However, I will say that for me personally, if I agreed to something and then couldn't do it for whatever reason, instead of initiating a refund (which isn't possible on most sites and I would never go the route of offsite payment methods), I'd try to make a compromise. I'd offer content that is equivalent to whatever they tipped for. That's just me. But even in that situation, you'll still have guys who are just straight up butts about it and would rather you be coerced into something you are uncomfortable with for their own benefit.

 

[Highlander884]

Well I'm not going to judge a girl or force her into anything. In fact when a less revealing girl decides to show more I always send a tip note to double check that she is OK, that's she's not forcing herself or being pressured by others.
And I've been in more then one room where the girl isn't in the mood and logged off and guys have understood.

I do however think if a girl changes her mind, there needs to be compensation of some sort.
Look at it this way, if a guy spends $160 dollars a month to get 2000 tokens and he tips 1k to a girl to do a boob flash but she decides not to, he isn't going to spend anymore on her again or give her a thumbs up, and anyone else with tokens watching isn't going to trust her with the rest of her tip menu.

Same thing with ticket shows, if a girl makes 10k and 100 members have tipped for ticket show, (yes I do know a lady who only charges 100 for ticket, popular too and u try to tell her that she could get away with charging more!) And decides she's not in the mood cancels but takes all the money, most of those guys are going to feel scammed and thumbs down her, the regulars would be understanding if she offers free entry for next ticket show.

Not every member has endless amount of cash!

Look at it another way, how do people who spend $$$ to travel to a concert react if the singer pulls out and the tickets are non refundable?

 

[Vixxen81]

Okay but what about when a viewer doesn't read the menu, tips an arbitrary (to them) amount that triggers a menu item and the viewer declines?

 

[Highlander884]

I'm confused by what u mean? If a guy doesn't read the tip menu tips for something that isn't on the tip menu then it's his own damn fault.

If the guy has tipped for something on the tip menu and the model won't ever do it, then she shouldn't ever have it on the tip menu.

If the tipper has tipped but it's giving him something then he has every right to say to the model not to do it and the model has every right to decide to or not to and if some viewer sulks if she don't, then they just have to tip for it themselves (which usually they dont)

If the lady is visibly upset and some idiot tips for something then, he's the fucking moron who can't read the room and if a busy room he will usually get ganged up on by other users in chat if she doesn't do it.

If a tipper tips for something and the girls decides she doesn't want to do it, then she can compensate or give refund.

I hope one of those answers the question.

Look I know the mass majority of users r asshole cunts, but there are still many guys who are understanding and considerate and care whether they upset the model or not.

 

[Vixxen81]

User enters the room, tips 200 tokens not realizing the 200 is also a tip menu item. HE declines the menu item, even though she's willing to do it even though he didn't mean to tip for it.

He declines it, so she doesn't do it. Is she supposed to explain that to everyone?

 

[Ozzie_]

User enters the room, tips 200 tokens not realizing the 200 is also a tip menu item. HE declines the menu item, even though she's willing to do it even though he didn't mean to tip for it.

He declines it, so she doesn't do it. Is she supposed to explain that to everyone?

IMO an emphatic no. That transaction is between the model and the person who tipped. Not the concern of anyone else in the room.


As to the other scenarios in this thread, I am of the belief that yes, a model has the right to refuse to do anything they feel uncomfortable with even if it is something they may "normally" do. Health and outlook/mood can change, I get that. However i do think it is only courteous and good business sense for the model to offer an alternative or a refund (if that is possible).

 

[Vixxen81]

IMO an emphatic no. That transaction is between the model and the person who tipped. Not the concern of anyone else in the room.

This is where I stand on the issue. Whatever is said to me in a tip note or PM is for my eyes only (on a brief tangent, I dislike it very much greatly when models read tip notes out loud to the entire room).

If someone sees someone else tip for a thing and the model doesn't do the thing because the tipper said not to do the thing, does it look like she just refused to do it? I guess it would make sense to just make token amounts for tip menu items "odd" numbers - 201, instead of 200 or 26 instead of 25...

 

[Highlander884]

If anyone says anything the model just explains and if the guy who hasn't tipped is still sulking, fuck him, kick them out. Seen that situation before. And it's usually the non tippers who make up a fuss.

 

[Ozzie_]

This is where I stand on the issue. Whatever is said to me in a tip note or PM is for my eyes only (on a brief tangent, I dislike it very much greatly when models read tip notes out loud to the entire room).

I agree.

If someone sees someone else tip for a thing and the model doesn't do the thing because the tipper said not to do the thing, does it look like she just refused to do it?

I guess it may well do that. If I was the tipper, however I would have made he request to not do the "thing" in public so everyone knew what was going on. I do not like to add to any complications if I can avoid it. I mean, it is not exactly a "private" conversation topic. Oh ok unless it was a private tip that no one else saw. well I don't do them either. I am in a cam room to enjoy and tip, I do not care who sees me tip. I've always seen private (anonymous) tips as kind of like humble bragging. Not my thing.