Is free speech under attack?

[justjoinedtopost]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/speech/...-remarks-administrations-continued-commitment

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Deleted member 37064]

The brainwashed enemy you are talking about that can destroy whole civilizations, including innocents, are the career politicians in our own government.

Our political machine, and it's mindless followers, are but one such example. I won't say "government" since it's the political parties and politics in general that I'm referring to. There's a lot of people working in the gov't that are good.

You know, I think one time in a thread I mentioned my concerns over Eric Prince, and his opinion that we needed a new Phoenix program. There have been a handful of stories pop up since then that have shifted my opinion of that somewhat, from concern to "maybe he knows what he's talking about".

Can't say I agree with privatizing war either. While I'm all for shortening it, I do not think private contracting is the way to go. Look at how bad things got botched up with contractors (Blackwater primarily IIRC) in "rebuilding" Iraq.

I feel as long as we have terrorist groups like Boco Haram and Isis (as well as others), this new type of warfare will be the norm until some nitwit (and there are many candidates for that designation) will choose an extreme and catastrophic weapon to be victorious.
But we are wandering away from "freedom of speech".
I have mentioned racist acts performed while hiding behind freedom of speech. The ones I have cited are incidents in the area I live in.
We do have random assaults and crimes (including murders) but those (as of now) have not been racist acts as much as general criminal activity (by Whites and Blacks).

There will always be guerilla warfare. The US was founded on it, as the Contintental Army was getting it's ass handed to it left and right. it wasn't until they started using guerilla warfare that the tide started to change. Small conflicts will always exist, and moving forward will be the way it works.

Agreed, we're slowly moving away from free spech discussion and I think far too many use "free speech" as a thin veil of hate speech.

I pretty much completely agree with this. The war against Islamic extremist is a generational one. This isn't what most politicians are telling us, (John McCain was an exception). Fortunately, senior military leaders have been talking about being a generational war for a number of years. One of the few good things Trump has done has left most of the decision about how to fight this battle, in the hands of highly competent General Mattis.

The problem you pose is exactly the right question. I'm quite sure there is no simple answer to the question. It involves gradually nudging governments with Muslim populations to be more responsive to their people, but also being willing to help popular movements rising against their repressive regimes. It means developing allies in the region sometime at the government level and sometimes at the opposition level. It means stopping the funding of Saudis to Wahabbi Madaras, countering Iran's theocracy, and completing the destruction of the Baathist party that started with the invasion of Iraq but has failed with Assad remaining in power. It also involves harness power of social media and the internet to show the young people of the region that there is more to life than praying 5 times a day, and treating women like slaves. It also requires a humility on the part of the US, we can influence events but ultimately the people in the Middle East, Africa and South East Asia have to figure this stuff out on their own.

It also involves killing a boatload of Islam extremist preferably overseas, with drones, SEAL team and occasionally with large units. The trick is how to kill them without creating more martyrs willing to take their place. I don't know how you do this, but I have a fair amount of confidence smart folks like General Mattis, Gen. Petraeus, and Gen. McMaster and the junior officer they've trained have spent most of their lives studying the problem will find one.

While the Muslim Extremists were the top on my mind when I wrote it. I won't deny that I was also thinking to internal struggles of a nation such as the US and how it seems with each generation, the division keeps getting worse. I forget who it was. Perhaps Stalin? Who said that the way they will defeat the US will be from within. Meaning, Soviet implants, and starting to change the mindset of the youth to believe in socialism, communism, etc. Not saying I think it's happening widespread, as I believe it's just progression of the world.

It depends where you live, as a Brit I am amazed at some of the things that are done and said publicly in the States, you just don't get the sort of public racism here in the same way you seem to in the USA, probably because we have stricter laws in regards to speech. For sure people are racist and might say a few things, but it's kept relatively quiet. So yes, lots of things you wouldn't classify as hate crime in the USA is classified as that here, and therefore there is less of it.
I don't know exactly where the line is here on what is seen as hateful speech and free speech, but you could probably look into it. We have similar laws about public nudity, it's all ruled under "public decency", so you can technically be naked in public spaces so long as it's not impacting other people or being done in a really obvious or deliberate way. It's kind of common sense I guess.

To be honest, I think many of our laws are very similar. Where I think the difference is culture. In some ways, Americans like to blow a lot of things out of proportion. Coupled with the previous discussion of sensationalist journalism, and how most things of editorial opinions, we're now far away from factual reporting. I'm not denying that things happen, or attempting to reduce the gravity of how serious a crime/issue things like racism, prejudism, assault, etc. are. Just saying that because Americans seem to be hyper-sensitive to many things, they get blown out of proportion.

Look at the differences between TV in the US and UK. Wasn't illegal to show topless women on TV there as far back as the 70's and 80's. Here, nope. Not on broadcast TV.

 

[dilligaf0]

While the Muslim Extremists were the top on my mind when I wrote it. I won't deny that I was also thinking to internal struggles of a nation such as the US and how it seems with each generation, the division keeps getting worse. I forget who it was. Perhaps Stalin? Who said that the way they will defeat the US will be from within. Meaning, Soviet implants, and starting to change the mindset of the youth to believe in socialism, communism, etc. Not saying I think it's happening widespread, as I believe it's just progression of the world.

I thought the statement made by the Russian leader (I don't remember if it's Stalin or Krushchev or who) was also saying creating discord in the U.S. was also a way they would destroy the U.S.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I thought the statement made by the Russian leader (I don't remember if it's Stalin or Krushchev or who) was also saying creating discord in the U.S. was also a way they would destroy the U.S.

I believe that was also one of the goals. The key of it is that the destruction would come from within. I attempted to do a search for the specific saying before posting. But failed and had to go off of memory.

 

[dilligaf0]

I believe that was also one of the goals. The key of it is that the destruction would come from within. I attempted to do a search for the specific saying before posting. But failed and had to go off of memory.

I found this on Google and I have no idea if he's the first to say it but:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-put-trump-online-letters-20180716-story.html
For what it's worth.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I found this on Google and I have no idea if he's the first to say it but:
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-put-trump-online-letters-20180716-story.html
For what it's worth.

That's it. I remember much more descriptive of the how from readings of it.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Can't say I agree with privatizing war either. While I'm all for shortening it, I do not think private contracting is the way to go. Look at how bad things got botched up with contractors (Blackwater primarily IIRC) in "rebuilding" Iraq.

Yeah, it's a real tossup.

As far as how bad things got botched with Blackwater, I really don't know. Fog of war, and all that...

 

[justjoinedtopost]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-ed-put-trump-online-letters-20180716-story.html
For what it's worth.

Fear porn, intended to point the finger at Trump and the Republicans.

And before I get accused of running after Trump, let me point out that he has also met with Chinese leaders, Saudi leaders, Israeli leaders, etc...
And I have heard the exact same logic twisted to fit each time.

 

[Poker_Babe]

@Poker_Babe Happy Birthday!!!

Thank you btw.

 

[Poker_Babe]

And Happy Birthday.

Thank you.

 

[Poker_Babe]

Straight, white men between the ages of 18 and 50 commit the majority of all terriost attacks in this country. Men, overwhelmingly, commit all violent crime as well. These are easily comfirmed facts, clearly not racist or sexist statements. Absolutely ridiculous to conflate the two.

Keep in mind though, that the majority of people living in the US are white though. And you're right, stating facts isn't racist, it's just stating what is the truth. Truth can sting at times though LoL. But now you got me wondering, what is considered a terrorist attack?

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Keep in mind though, that the majority of people living in the US are white though. And you're right, stating facts isn't racist, it's just stating what is the truth. Truth can sting at times though LoL. But now you got me wondering, what is considered a terrorist attack?

Which is exactly why all this fear mongering pushed by repubs about foreign terrorism is racist bullshit. Most of our problems are homegrown.

According to the US Intelligence Community (and different countries define these things differently) a terroist attack is “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.” Biggest problem in the US, white supremacy groups.

While technically many mass shooting don’t fall into this category, but in a more literal sense, it’s all terrorism. We don’t know what the Las Vegas shooters motives were, but killing 500+ people seems like terrorism too me. Walking into a school and murdering children might not be “politically motivated” but it still looks like terrorism.

Either way, it’s still white dudes, who were born here, doing the most of it. While immigrants are too busy working the jobs we don’t wanna do.

I wonder if the guy that just shot up the synagogue will get charged with terrorism? He was still yelling about how he wanted to kill all Jews while being treated in the hospital. Will that make the cut for politically motivated? Hard to pinpoint a real meaning there when politics is in most aspects of life.

 

[Poker_Babe]

.
Biggest problem in the US, white supremacy groups.

Anyone know where to find any official stats on this??? I'm searching through the FBI's website, but I haven't had any luck yet. Damn site is one big confusing maze.

.
We don’t know what the Las Vegas shooters motives were, but killing 500+ people seems like terrorism too me.

I believe that the Las Vegas shooter killed 50 people.

.
While immigrants are too busy working the jobs we don’t wanna do.

That's a pretty big generalization don't ya think? Are we talking about all immigrants or just illegal immigrants? Immigrants from all over the world or just from Mexico? Who's "we" and how does anyone know that we don't want to do certain jobs?

.
I wonder if the guy that just shot up the synagogue will get charged with terrorism? He was still yelling about how he wanted to kill all Jews while being treated in the hospital. Will that make the cut for politically motivated? Hard to pinpoint a real meaning there when politics is in most aspects of life.

Probably not. Sounds racially motivated to me. Most likely will be charged as a hate crime imho.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Anyone know where to find any official stats on this??? I'm searching through the FBI's website, but I haven't had any luck yet. Damn site is one big confusing maze.


I believe that the Las Vegas shooter killed 50 people.


That's a pretty big generalization don't ya think? Are we talking about all immigrants or just illegal immigrants? Immigrants from all over the world or just from Mexico? Who's "we" and how does anyone know that we don't want to do certain jobs?


Probably not. Sounds racially motivated to me. Most likely will be charged as a hate crime imho.

*Shot ~500 people, killed ~50. Brain fart on my part, it’s feeling impossible to keep up with all the violence. As far as generalizations about immigrants. I live in Texas and this it what I see. People, usually from Mexico, holding the bulk of the manual labor jobs. The people who pick everyone’s fruits and vegetables are migrant workers who travel where the ripe stuff is, made up of Mexican/South American immigrants. There’s plenty of white people here, but I hardly see any on landscaping crews, janitorial staff or doing road work.

When I was working at a winery, guess who always picked the grapes and made up the entirety of the farm crew? Mexican immigrants. I got to pour wine all day while they did shit I can’t even imagine, for less money. That’s what I mean by the jobs we don’t want to work. The low paying, hard shit that’s usually outdoors in the god awful Texas weather. Who wants to pick grapes in August or go to work everyday in a slaughterhouse? No one, so the people with very limited options do it.

When I say immigrants I mean immigrants. Anyone who came here from a different country. In this context, Hispanic ones. The bureau of labor statistics has info on racial demographics. The only thing is I bet they don’t/can’t include all the undocumented workers so there’s a population chunk probably missing from their research.

 

[Poker_Babe]

hard shit that’s usually outdoors in the god awful Texas weather. Who wants to pick grapes in August or go to work everyday in a slaughterhouse?

OMFG, I spent the month of July in Austin a few years ago. I don't know how you guys do it... I guess Texans are just tough.

 

[AudriTwo]

When I say immigrants I mean immigrants. Anyone who came here from a different country. In this context, Hispanic ones. The bureau of labor statistics has info on racial demographics. The only thing is I bet they don’t/can’t include all the undocumented workers so there’s a population chunk probably missing from their research.

Over 100 years ago the white people who did take those jobs were Irish, italian, and polish imagrants. There was fear of new people coming in and taking up resources too and those people experienced similar to what most migrant workers and other imagrants experience today. It is evolutionary psychology imo because there is history of people negatively reacting to any sort of a different group in there territory no matter the circumstances.

Americans had distrust and fearful towards Jewish European refugees during before and during WWII. People fleeing from human rights violations. Same could be said with the fear of South Americans and Syrians running from violence to poverty. The negative reactions are the same.

 

[AudriTwo]

Somebody said: “the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them.”

Racist?

DC snipers had what color skin?

Lol mad about someone making it about race so makes it about race with whataboutism. Ignore all these white people who are right radicals, look at this one black guy who is a left radical.

Let's look at the facts. But let's look at ideology instead of skin color...

Last year there was 65 tterroristattacks, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.



There is also a rise in terror attacks in the states when most of Western countries are experiencing a decline. Middle East countries are experiencing a 40% decrease as well.


Since bocefish has been doghoused, I'm not gonna go into it more: https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Lol mad about someone making it about race so makes it about race with whataboutism. Ignore all these white people who are right radicals, look at this one black guy who is a left radical.

Let's look at the facts. But let's look at ideology instead of skin color...

Last year there was 65 tterroristattacks, 37 were tied to racist, anti-Muslim, homophobic, anti-Semitic, fascist, anti-government, or xenophobic motivations.

View attachment 78905

There is also a rise in terror attacks in the states when most of Western countries are experiencing a decline. Middle East countries are experiencing a 40% decrease as well.
View attachment 78907

Since bocefish has been doghoused, I'm not gonna go into it more: https://qz.com/1355874/terrorism-is-surging-in-the-us-fueled-by-right-wing-extremists/

Well if a university study has analyzed what has been reported, and a clearly left leaning reporter in San Paulo is now reporting on that, then I suppose these facts....are a big goddam daisy chain.

I see the State Department has pulled the funding for the GTD, or declined to renew their contract.

Somebody should make a poll to confirm these conclusions.