Is free speech under attack?

[justjoinedtopost]

Here is a pretty good one. He admits it is hard not to hate.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

sorry. You said 'felt'. You felt it was out of the scope.

now tell me what you think, plainspeak

Alex Jones reports on alleged conspiracy theories...
CNBC reports on alleged conspiracy theories...

?

In that context "felt" = "thought". It does not mean that I'm emotional about it.


As to your question, if I'm understanding it correctly (it's still extrememly vague in the context which you're after), there is no difference in the sentences aside from the who's doing the reporter. No clue who Alex Jones is, nor do I really care. CNBC, I will see a few minutes of the channel every few months if it's on someplace I may go to. So, from a 10,000 foot view, there's no difference to me. However, titles alone don't make what's actually being reported.
Depending upon the spin, that's where it matters as to the context of how they are reported. Neither are sources I really visit, so it doesn't impact me. However, a large number of people around the world say that news sources should be unbiased.

Personally, I just avoid many political shows. I think they're all full of shit, with a political agenda, regardless of which way it leans. At the same time, I think many "hidden" or lesser known sites are not credible, spewing nothing more than regurgitated op-ed articles which they believe to be fact, and not opinion.

 

[dilligaf0]

In that context "felt" = "thought". It does not mean that I'm emotional about it.


As to your question, if I'm understanding it correctly (it's still extrememly vague in the context which you're after), there is no difference in the sentences aside from the who's doing the reporter. No clue who Alex Jones is, nor do I really care. CNBC, I will see a few minutes of the channel every few months if it's on someplace I may go to. So, from a 10,000 foot view, there's no difference to me. However, titles alone don't make what's actually being reported.
Depending upon the spin, that's where it matters as to the context of how they are reported. Neither are sources I really visit, so it doesn't impact me. However, a large number of people around the world say that news sources should be unbiased.

Personally, I just avoid many political shows. I think they're all full of shit, with a political agenda, regardless of which way it leans. At the same time, I think many "hidden" or lesser known sites are not credible, spewing nothing more than regurgitated op-ed articles which they believe to be fact, and not opinion.

A quick example of Alex Jones' "reporting".
After 20 children and 6 adults were murdered in Sandy Hook Elementary school, Jones claimed it was a false flag, The victims were paid actors and nobody really died. He had other such opinions of other incidents as well.
That's Alex Jones in a nutshell, just so you know.
I agree news sources should be unbiased, but that doesn't exist at this time and each side wants to put out as much propaganda as possible to benefit their side. We need to eliminate the misinformation before we can get true information.
As long as companies can profit from, and political sides can "win" from propaganda, it won't change.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

A quick example of Alex Jones' "reporting".
After 20 children and 6 adults were murdered in Sandy Hook Elementary school, Jones claimed it was a false flag, The victims were paid actors and nobody really died. He had other such opinions of other incidents as well.
That's Alex Jones in a nutshell, just so you know.
I agree news sources should be unbiased, but that doesn't exist at this time and each side wants to put out as much propaganda as possible to benefit their side. We need to eliminate the misinformation before we can get true information.
As long as companies can profit from, and political sides can "win" from propaganda, it won't change.

Then, he wasn't the only one who believed in the "staged" shooting theory. I remember reading and hearing about it from a number of different sources. Kind of like much of the rhetoric both sides like to throw out there.

 

[dilligaf0]

I really think we were better off in the 60's when there were 3 news networks. They seemed to focus on the facts more and they identified opinions as "editorials".
Their goal was getting the facts, not hyping whatever gets them the highest ratings, true or not.

 

[AmberCutie]

I really think we were better off in the 60's when there were 3 news networks. They seemed to focus on the facts more and they identified opinions as "editorials".
Their goal was getting the facts, not hyping whatever gets them the highest ratings, true or not.

I wasn’t even a thought of being conceived in that decade but I still agree.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I really think we were better off in the 60's when there were 3 news networks. They seemed to focus on the facts more and they identified opinions as "editorials".
Their goal was getting the facts, not hyping whatever gets them the highest ratings, true or not.

Yep, today's "news" is more opinions and twisted theories than facts. It's all about ratings, and sensationalism more than anything now.

 

[DFT]

I really think we were better off in the 60's when there were 3 news networks. They seemed to focus on the facts

58,000 US soldiers might have wanted more reporting than the agreed upon "facts" of the day.

ForceTen described today's news accurately just above. Was it really better or best remembered in our innocence at the time?

 

[justjoinedtopost]

As long as companies can profit from, and political sides can "win" from propaganda, it won't change.

Can you stop looking at "their" propaganda, and look at "your" own?

Early in the Clinton campaign, there was an incident pretty much identical to the one described in the story you posted. Just like in the story you posted, it was dealt with. Would have been quite foolish to somehow say Clinton was to blame for it.

(not a defense of Trump by the way; you can believe that I have heard words from him that cause concern)

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Okay so I happened across this on twitter and figured it should be shared for those of you who have never seen jones. It’s hilarious and you don’t have to hear him talk, but it’s all things he’s said.



“Literal vampire pot bellied goblins” is somehow so catchy when sung.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Just the picture alone shows that anyone with an okay camera, a mic, and the ability to setup a decent looking cam room feels they can broadcast.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

What about what happened to YouTuber Mark Meechan aka count dankula?

In terms of Mark Meechan, this happened in the UK where while we do have free speech laws, they basically go under a rule of being able to speak freely so long as what you say doesn't prevent the freedom of others to live in peace.

So making extremely racist public "jokes" is not acceptable and you can get fined or even serve a short sentence. I think this youtuber only got an £800 fine, but he raised like £100k in legal expenses to fight the fine and said he'd rather serve jail time out of principle. He was also part of some extremely right wing groups and parties which are associated with racism, so while it was argued as a "joke", it seemed to be using racism as a publicity stunt for his channel, which I don't think is acceptable. Have opinions which differ from others and talk publicly about it by all means, but a white nationalist saying statements like "gas the jews" isn't really that jokey when you think about the horrific crimes made against the jewish population not that long ago.
To be honest, it seemed like in this particular case he made as big a deal out of it as possible, probably for publicity, when actually these laws have always been in place. I remember as a child it being in the paper that someone got arrested for teaching their dog to heil at Nazi slogans. You can agree or disagree with it, but those are our laws and have been for a long time. And to be honest, I'm pretty happy with it being that way.

There's a difference between being able to speak freely within your own home or private messages between friends, or speaking out publicly with your opinions and publicly spreading hate speech under the disguise of humour. Free speech is great, but it should not be misinterpreted as the right to say whatever the fuck nasty bullying shit you like without consequences.

We are on the other hand allowed to have protests etc within certain boundaries, and I think they're supposed to be planned, though in the UK nationalist protests tend to have not a huge show and have huge amounts of people protesting the protest. I guess there's a point where people just don't want to hear hatred, and that's also their right to drown it out. We do also have protests like anti-abortion, I think the rules for this are relatively free. They're not particularly common as far as I can tell.

I guess it's like, you can talk pretty freely so long as you're not actually using hate speech to directly attack people. And in Mark Meechan's case, I guess "gas the jews" went a step too far. And really, I think if you cannot see why a line was crossed you should probably reevaluate the meaning of that term.

In terms of free speech, we also have a law in one county that catcalling women is considered a hate crime. People could argue that their freedom of speech is being removed, but that freedom of speech would prevent women from being able to walk around feeling safe and unharassed by men due to their gender. While it's important to protect free speech, there is also an element of common sense where the line can be crossed and your "right" to free speech negatively impacts other people's lives.

 

[justjoinedtopost]

Okay so I happened across this on twitter and figured it should be shared for those of you who have never seen jones. It’s hilarious and you don’t have to hear him talk, but it’s all things he’s said.



“Literal vampire pot bellied goblins” is somehow so catchy when sung.

Well, as someone who got briefly sucked in to his little bubble back when he was attacking Bush, I can tell you it was anything but funny.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

In terms of free speech, we also have a law in one county that catcalling women is considered a hate crime. People could argue that their freedom of speech is being removed, but that freedom of speech would prevent women from being able to walk around feeling safe and unharassed by men due to their gender. While it's important to protect free speech, there is also an element of common sense where the line can be crossed and your "right" to free speech negatively impacts other people's lives.

Based on this alone, then a lot of things people say, do, act, etc. can be classified as a hate crime. Yet, many people feel that it's not. It comes from both sides, and both adamantly deny it.

Bottom line, people need to go back to showing a little bit of common decency and some respect to everyone. Even if you dislike them.

 

[dilligaf0]

Based on this alone, then a lot of things people say, do, act, etc. can be classified as a hate crime. Yet, many people feel that it's not. It comes from both sides, and both adamantly deny it.

Bottom line, people need to go back to showing a little bit of common decency and some respect to everyone. Even if you dislike them.

There's the problem. Too many people think they're the only people on the planet and whet they want is all that matters.
On a totally different subject, but in the same spirit:
over 400,000 people signed a petition to move Halloween to the last Saturday of October.
Whiny, self-centered assholes.
What's next? Move Christmas so it's a 3 day weekend? Make Thanksgiving a vegan only holiday? New Year's Day is the first Saturday of January?
It's madness!

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Along the lines of "free speech" and being stupid with what/how people say things...

It's an older story. But, I think it's stupid that TV personalities were trying to defend these punks by saying they were acting stupid and made poor decisions and it wasn't a hate crime.. If it was white kids who did this to a black man, they'd be calling for capital punishment and claiming Trump masterminded all of this..

https://nypost.com/2017/01/05/news-commentators-defend-facebook-hate-crime-video/

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Free speech?

https://washingtonpress.com/2018/10...note-for-new-neighbors-i-released-some-anger/ via @anteksiler


I think not. It's racism trying to hide behind free speech. Another racist caught and crying.

Yep, another racist caught spewing their shit and it's a "news anchor".

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/...error-threat-to-us-and-there-is-no-travel-ban


CNN anchor Don Lemon declared that "the biggest terror threat in this country is white men," adding that "there is no travel ban on them" in an exchange that has prompted rebuke from conservatives on social media.

"I keep trying to point out to people and not to demonize any one group or any one ethnicity," Lemon said to fellow CNN anchor Chris Cuomo during a handoff of their respective programs late Monday. "But we keep thinking that the biggest terror threat is something else, someone people who are marching, you know, towards the border, like it's imminent."


"And the last time they did this, a couple hundred people came and they — you know, most of them did get into the country, most of them tired — you know, got tuckered out before they made it to the border," he continued.

"So, we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them," Lemon concluded. "There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban on — you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy ban."

 

[AudriTwo]

The joke is being a Nazi is bad. He wanted to make the pug into the worse thing he could think of, and that was a Nazi. He initially made it for his small group of friends before it blew up.

Someone sees a cute little pug responding positive to nazi reteric, and thinks it's antisemitic. In context to the joke, now is that? I can't help but think of all the father david and monty python nazi jokes that have the literal punchline.

Regardless it was a stupid arrest and a judge said context doesn't matter.

Johnathan Pie shares my opinion.

 

[dilligaf0]

Yep, another racist caught spewing their shit and it's a "news anchor".

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/...error-threat-to-us-and-there-is-no-travel-ban


CNN anchor Don Lemon declared that "the biggest terror threat in this country is white men," adding that "there is no travel ban on them" in an exchange that has prompted rebuke from conservatives on social media.

"I keep trying to point out to people and not to demonize any one group or any one ethnicity," Lemon said to fellow CNN anchor Chris Cuomo during a handoff of their respective programs late Monday. "But we keep thinking that the biggest terror threat is something else, someone people who are marching, you know, towards the border, like it's imminent."


"And the last time they did this, a couple hundred people came and they — you know, most of them did get into the country, most of them tired — you know, got tuckered out before they made it to the border," he continued.

"So, we have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them," Lemon concluded. "There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban on — you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white guy ban."

I can go through and list Fox "News" anchors spewing their racist shit too. Big deal, they're after ratings. The woman I showed is a racist living in a neighborhood trying to run a black family out of their new home. That shit is straight out of the 60's. We have KKK spreading propaganda leaflets around neighborhoods here.
The problem is racists. Notice I did NOT say white, black, yellow, red orange purple or any other color.
Racism is the problem, regardless of the source.

 

[dilligaf0]

The joke is being a Nazi is bad. He wanted to make the pug into the worse thing he could think of, and that was a Nazi. He initially made it for his small group of friends before it blew up.

Someone sees a cute little pug responding positive to nazi reteric, and thinks it's antisemitic. In context to the joke, now is that? I can't help but think of all the father david and monty python nazi jokes that have the literal punchline.

Regardless it was a stupid arrest and a judge said context doesn't matter.

Johnathan Pie shares my opinion.

That's in the U.K.
Their laws hardly apply here, nor do our laws apply there.
The two men should have been in separate posts by the OP.
One for American freedom of speech and one for U.K. freedom of speech.
That's like comparing Canada's freedom laws to those of Saudi Arabia, they're totally different sets of laws and are not universal worldwide.
Because of Hitler and WW2, Germany has laws prohibiting the display of swastikas. It's not a worldwide law.

 

[AudriTwo]

That's in the U.K.
Their laws hardly apply here, nor do our laws apply there.
The two men should have been in separate posts by the OP.
One for American freedom of speech and one for U.K. freedom of speech.
That's like comparing Canada's freedom laws to those of Saudi Arabia, they're totally different sets of laws and are not universal worldwide.

Yeah duhh also holy shit you can be condescending. I was giving my overall opinion on it ment to quote issabella...

 

[Deleted member 37064]

The joke is being a Nazi is bad. He wanted to make the pug into the worse thing he could think of, and that was a Nazi. He initially made it for his small group of friends before it blew up.

Someone sees a cute little pug responding positive to nazi reteric, and thinks it's antisemitic. In context to the joke, now is that? I can't help but think of all the father david and monty python nazi jokes that have the literal punchline.

Regardless it was a stupid arrest and a judge said context doesn't matter.

Johnathan Pie shares my opinion.

I keep thinking about all the stuff like Blazing Saddles, Monty Python, Benny Hill and other shows that could never be made again in today's political climate.

 

[Deleted member 37064]

I can go through and list Fox "News" anchors spewing their racist shit too. Big deal, they're after ratings. The woman I showed is a racist living in a neighborhood trying to run a black family out of their new home. That shit is straight out of the 60's. We have KKK spreading propaganda leaflets around neighborhoods here.
The problem is racists. Notice I did NOT say white, black, yellow, red orange purple or any other color.
Racism is the problem, regardless of the source.

You already do enough posting of right wing hate as damn near everything you post shows the stupidity of the right. If you think both sides are guilty, why don't you post up the shit from both sides? Or, is it easier to just blame one side and continue on with the "only one side is guilty" dogma like so many (right and left) want to do? My post was to show the left does the same shit, yet people are willingly blind to it and claim it doesn't happen.

If you have issues with a woman doing what she did, you should be just as concerned about news anchors saying the shit he did. Not the "Big deal, they're after ratings." statement that you did. Even more so, if we're holding people accountable and they're losing their jobs for sexual misconduct the same rules should also apply for racist comments. Roseanne and Paula Dean are two people who made racial slurs about minorities and paid for it. Where's the repurcussions of minorities, and other whites, saying the same shit about whites? Or, is that "different"?

 

[JoleneBrody]

You already do enough posting of right wing hate as damn near everything you post shows the stupidity of the right. If you think both sides are guilty, why don't you post up the shit from both sides? Or, is it easier to just blame one side and continue on with the "only one side is guilty" dogma like so many (right and left) want to do? My post was to show the left does the same shit, yet people are willingly blind to it and claim it doesn't happen.

If you have issues with a woman doing what she did, you should be just as concerned about news anchors saying the shit he did. Not the "Big deal, they're after ratings." statement that you did. Even more so, if we're holding people accountable and they're losing their jobs for sexual misconduct the same rules should also apply for racist comments. Roseanne and Paula Dean are two people who made racial slurs about minorities and paid for it. Where's the repurcussions of minorities, and other whites, saying the same shit about whites? Or, is that "different"?

Do you genuinely believe that Don Lemon pointing out that most terrorist attacks in the U.S are carried out by white male extremists (true), as a reason why the Muslim ban is dumb is the same as a woman leaving a hateful letter on the door to try to chase her new black neighbor out of town? DO YOU REALLY?
Like I mean... turn off you what aboutism deflection tactic for just a sec and seriously think about it. This is a WILD stretch

 

[Poker_Babe]

The joke is being a Nazi is bad. He wanted to make the pug into the worse thing he could think of, and that was a Nazi. He initially made it for his small group of friends before it blew up.

Someone sees a cute little pug responding positive to nazi reteric, and thinks it's antisemitic. In context to the joke, now is that? I can't help but think of all the father david and monty python nazi jokes that have the literal punchline.

Regardless it was a stupid arrest and a judge said context doesn't matter.

Johnathan Pie shares my opinion.

I was getting ready to post almost exactly what you said here, but you beat me to it.

 

[Poker_Babe]

That's in the U.K.
Their laws hardly apply here, nor do our laws apply there.
The two men should have been in separate posts by the OP.
One for American freedom of speech and one for U.K. freedom of speech.
That's like comparing Canada's freedom laws to those of Saudi Arabia, they're totally different sets of laws and are not universal worldwide.

What's wrong with discussing free speech in the broader sense of societal norms and legalities within First World countries? People from all over the world participate in this forum, I was just trying to be as inclusive to everyone here as possible, because I believe it's an important topic that deserves a thoughtful discussion.

 

[yummybrownfox]

@Poker_Babe Happy Birthday!!!

 

[Deleted member 37064]

Do you genuinely believe that Don Lemon pointing out that most terrorist attacks in the U.S are carried out by white male extremists (true), as a reason why the Muslim ban is dumb is the same as a woman leaving a hateful letter on the door to try to chase her new black neighbor out of town? DO YOU REALLY?
Like I mean... turn off you what aboutism deflection tactic for just a sec and seriously think about it. This is a WILD stretch

Wild stretch? Nope. To use dilligaf's own words "racism is racism". I don't give a flying fuck if it's it's a KKK member burning a effigy, someone saying a racial slur, or a tv commentator making remarks such as has been made. Also, apparently this is not the first time Don Lemon has made remarks such as he has. People are critical of the shit Trump says, and calls his statements as racist and incindiary. Again, if the shoe fits, wear it. Even if it's your own smelly shoe.

To he honest, I don't agree with the travel ban imposed based upon a religious belief. Do I agree with heightened security background checks of people who are from select parts of the world based upon political upheaval and potential tie in with terrorists? Absolutely. However, if background checks show nothing (which isn't always accurate), I see no reasons why they shouldn't be allowed entry.

Just like I don't agree with the bullshit Trump and the Republicans want to do by removing birthright. I can understand the concern. But, I don't agree with it.

 

[dilligaf0]

What's wrong with discussing free speech in the broader sense of societal norms and legalities within First World countries? People from all over the world participate in this forum, I was just trying to be as inclusive to everyone here as possible, because I believe it's an important topic that deserves a thoughtful discussion.

That's fine. The principles of free speech are limited and outlawed in many countries, which is wrong. I was just pointing out that people under one country's laws may not understand the issues if they're looking at it from another country and under their different law.

And Happy Birthday.

 

[Poison_Ivy21]

Straight, white men between the ages of 18 and 50 commit the majority of all terriost attacks in this country. Men, overwhelmingly, commit all violent crime as well. These are easily comfirmed facts, clearly not racist or sexist statements. Absolutely ridiculous to conflate the two.