Is chivalry sexism?

[JickyJuly]

If a man is going to treat me like a lilting flower, he best be an actual Knight. And I want a white horse, treating wounds with leaches and fire, stabbing bad guys with huge metal swords kind of knight. None of that Paul McCartney title bullshit. :lol:

For real though, chivalry is too old not to be sexist. That doesn't mean that opening the door for someone is wrong. But, deciding which stranger to open a door for based on the contents of their underpants is sexist. Opening the door for those you love is polite. Opening the door for any random stranger who seems in need is polite. Opening the door for only people who have the sex parts you are into is self serving.

 

[ACFFAN69]

We're all focusing on this silly "hold the door" morality question, when I'm sure all of us hold the door for each other. Most people that aren't assholes do that. The juicy question lays on if you expect a man to do those other actions mentioned.

For me, I'm willing to play the game, just as I allow my strings to be pulled in every way of life based on the puppet I'm asked to play. I'll open the door to the car to the girl I'm attracted to, regardless of the fact that I hate that I should, and realize the sexism behind it. Ignoring by extension the lack of respect I'm showing to the person I do it too. I'll hold her her chair, I'll walk on the street side, I'll gladly offer my cloak. I make compromises because it doesn't hurt me too much to do these things, regardless of the underlying meanings that these actions represent. When I do it to the person I love, it is not about the underlying meaning, it's simply not fighting the strings of culture being pulled against me. Thankfully I can generally quickly discover those strings that the one I love expects myself to be entangled with.

I act the same in every walk of my life. I lie to my employer and my family about the debauchery that I've gone through over the weekend. I realize that money is debt and just paper, meaningless to anything but the lie that we accept it to be, but I willingly accept the lie, because to do any other is to reject the world we've conjured up. I lie to everyone I meet. I play a role. I hope that those I care about can see through the mirage and truly love the person behind it, just as I see through the mirage they cast and love the person behind it.

That being said, I respect those that stick their middle finger to the lie. I wish we all could be that honest.

 

[camstory]

Just one of the few things I don't have any temptation to over think. I don't know if it is sexest - spos that dependens a bunch on the definition. But, if lovin you is wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

[SoTxBob]

My name is Bob and I'm a sexist. Its been 11 days since I've had the opportunity to open a door for my lady. :-D

This sexism label bizness is part of the absurdity that seems to grow unbridled along side the 'PC' rhetoric in todays ever so fragile and sensitive society. Manners are seldom taught to the youth of today. That saddens me. I could write a long page of examples I've witnessed in the last year alone that when I was a kid, I'd have gotten a thwack behind the ear from my folks if I had done the same.
I let women go thru the door first, I hold that door for them. I wait till they are seated at a table before I sit. The chair pulling thing is reserved for uber special times. Sometimes I order for her [if i know her and its ok.] Most of the better 3-4+ star restaurants will still look to the man to do this anyway. I offer them my arm if we are walking somewhere [again if we are close or know each other.] I'm used to paying for dinner or whatever, but its come to if shes faster grabbing the check, she can pay. I LOVE giving her flowers. It makes me feel good. I was "scolded" by a flannel clad female neighbor of hers one time for this practice. When shopping, I carry the [larger] bags so she can flit about fairly freely.

While it is simply the generations old manners/courtesy toward others I was taught, I also love to treat her like a princess. It makes her happy. I love when shes happy. Dare I say "my princess" or does that throw me to the 'possessing her' side of the BS bus ? If a guy putting you first is a problem, or it makes you somehow uncomfortable, then I truly feel sorry for you because in my belief it ties into the ability to show love toward others a bit down the road.

 

[Ambers Troll]

For real though, chivalry is too old not to be sexist.

Some of it still applies, the helping a woman in heels with stairs is one.
The opening a car door, especially if the woman you are with is in a short skirt/ dress is another, keep in mind that you are covering the door with your body. If she is in heels you may well help her sit.
Opening a door for someone in a gown (your bride for example) would be wise. Perhaps something less extreme like a strong door closing on a female friend wearing heels, why not hold it open?
Women are smaller than men, more prone to cold, especially if wearing less.... So why not offer your coat
Even covering a puddle with your overcoat, so your partner in a long gown can cross might still apply.

But take the case of a woman in flat shoes, and pants of any kind, no chivalry required... doesn't mean you wont hold a door or offer an arm, but it is playing a gender role even if well manored.
For myself in the modern world the more chivalry based acts are appropriate in cases where women do them for each other.

 

[WizofAus]

I've been avoiding this topic, because I'm good at stepping on land mines, but here goes.

Chivalry had its place, and I'm sure in the past it was most welcome, but these days equality appears to be more important to the modern woman, and the 'weak woman who needed a the strong mans protection' is not something they associate with.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some women who lament the loss of chivalry, just as there are some men who wish we could return to a simpler time when the woman stayed at home and did everything; seen, but not heard; barefoot and pregnant.

In all likelihood, this simpler world does still exist in royal families or amongst the filthy rich, but as I have no experience with either I can only make an uneducated guess.

Manners, now they'll never get old.

If the person your with can't recognise that your actions are those of a person who considers others, then maybe they are the ones who have the problem.

I don't do anything because it's expected of me, I do it because I know it's the right thing to do, and I want to do it. I always offer people help if it looks like they are struggling with whatever they are doing. Opening a door, carrying something, problem with a task at work, etc. I like helping people.

But beyond that, if it's not obvious that someone needs help, i.e. opening a car door or helping them sit on a chair, unless they indicate to me that they need help, why is it necessary for me to do so.

People need to ask. Don't expect that others can read your mind or know what your expectations are. Speak up. I'm not someone who goes into a store and waits for assistance. If I'm having trouble finding something, I ask someone.

I make it known to those who Are important to me that I am more than happy to assist them in anyway possible, but I don't run around catering to their every whim. If they want something, they need to learn to ask.

Getting back to the whole opening of car doors and helping someone with their chair, it's not something that I believe fits into the realm of manners. Maybe if I was trying to impress someone I might do it for them, but then I'm not being myself. I don't think its necessary.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[MayaEden]

But he's not respecting other people? Idk, if I hold the door for someone and see someone else on their way to the door I continue holding it for the next person. It's pretty hard to miss someone behind you once you're already holding the door. Seeing someone coming and then continuing to let the door close in their face because they're not the person you're trying to sleep with seems pretty rude to me and not an attractive quality in a human.

huh? Got weird kinda quick, now the dude is letting the door close in someones face because they aren't the person he's trying to sleep with? lmao nevermind

Yes that's what she said since the beginning, that she likes doors being opened for her but, when it's only because she's a woman on a date (hence the sleeping with part) and he lets other people getting slammed in the face because of it, it's a deal breaker. I bolded the important part in case you missed it.

Do I like when someone opens doors for me? You betcha. But if I go out on a few dates with someone and they open doors for me but not a man that's behind us, there won't be anymore dates because he's clearly doing it for me because I'm a woman instead of doing it because I'm just another person.

 

[KylieJacobs]

We're all focusing on this silly "hold the door" morality question, when I'm sure all of us hold the door for each other. Most people that aren't assholes do that. The juicy question lays on if you expect a man to do those other actions mentioned.

Absolutely Not!

 

[AmberCutie]

We're all focusing on this silly "hold the door" morality question, when I'm sure all of us hold the door for each other. Most people that aren't assholes do that. The juicy question lays on if you expect a man to do those other actions mentioned.

Expect it? No. Appreciate it and love it when he does? HELLS YES!

I expect a man to hold the door open for anyone close by, as a courtesy. But all of the other stuff (helping a girl take off/hang her coat, pulling out chairs, letting the woman order first or order for her if she would like, offering coat if it's cold, opening car doors) are things that don't apply to "I expect my man to do that for everyone regardless of gender" because it applies to the person he is out with, not the general public around him.

 

[SaffronBurke]

A lot of these things are making me feel like I'm the only woman alive who dresses practically for dates. Thus, most "chivalrous" actions would be weird.

I don't need to be dropped off/picked up, or have help walking, because I'm in big stompy boots, or flats, or comfortable heels.

Fashion be damned, if it's cold, I'm wearing clothing appropriate for the weather. I check the forecast and dress appropriately. I take at least a shawl or scarf everywhere, because I'm cold anytime the temp dips under 80. Don't need your coat, I already brought mine.

Maybe I just don't know how to girl properly, but I really don't "get" dressing impractically for the sake of looks. Yes, some heels are difficult to walk in. I don't wear those out of the house, what if I need to run for some reason? I have rather cute, very high heels that I'm more than able to walk easily in, and those are what I wear out. Wearing cute clothes that'll leave me freezing? No thanks, I'd rather be warm. I either wear something cute and weather-friendly, or I wear my really warm, down-to-my-ankles, 1970's gentleman's overcoat.

 

[DeezNA]

And I want a white horse, treating wounds with leaches and fire, stabbing bad guys with huge metal swords kind of knight.

My doctor still uses these treatments... this is not normal?

While we're all sitting on the Norman Rockwell 50's-era nostalgia/resentment fence, I just wanna say it would be absolutely lovely to have someone rub my feet while I'm lounging in my den sipping Scotch and smoking a pipe after a long night of getting naked on the internet.

Is that hurting anyone? Only if the person doesn't wanna do it or they rub my feet too hard... Doesn't even have to be a chick. Could be a eunuch Philippino midget for all I care in that respect, I just want my damn feet rubbed.


Seriously though... Two girls go out on a date, one pulls out the other's chair - sexist? Two dudes go out on a date, one offers the other his coat - sexist? Once you take gender out of the equation when thinking about the situation, it immediately becomes clear that it's just something nice to do for someone.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

But he's not respecting other people? Idk, if I hold the door for someone and see someone else on their way to the door I continue holding it for the next person. It's pretty hard to miss someone behind you once you're already holding the door. Seeing someone coming and then continuing to let the door close in their face because they're not the person you're trying to sleep with seems pretty rude to me and not an attractive quality in a human.

huh? Got weird kinda quick, now the dude is letting the door close in someones face because they aren't the person he's trying to sleep with? lmao nevermind

Yes that's what she said since the beginning, that she likes doors being opened for her but, when it's only because she's a woman on a date (hence the sleeping with part) and he lets other people getting slammed in the face because of it, it's a deal breaker. I bolded the important part in case you missed it.

Do I like when someone opens doors for me? You betcha. But if I go out on a few dates with someone and they open doors for me but not a man that's behind us, there won't be anymore dates because he's clearly doing it for me because I'm a woman instead of doing it because I'm just another person.

Understood her post chief, was just a very simple way of thinking and it got weird quick. Now the only reason that guys are holding doors open is because they might sleep with the person and they let doors slam in peoples faces because they aren't going to sleep with them. It got so ridiculous that it wasn't worth responding to. Thanks for trying tho, A for effort.

 

[eyeteach]

Allow me to take a step back for a second. If I'm out on a date I'm going to do those things; I'll hold the door, help her with her coat, sit after her, etc. If that makes me chauvinist then so be it...I'll always see those characteristics as proper manners.

But to be able to do those things I've first got to have a date, it's kinda hard when you're as ass-ugly as I. So to any single ladies reading this wondering if I'm worth the trouble to go out one on date with please know this: not only will I treat you with respect and act as a gentleman should, I also put out on the first date.

 

[Zoomer]

Allow me to take a step back for a second. If I'm out on a date I'm going to do those things; I'll hold the door, help her with her coat, sit after her, etc. If that makes me chauvinist then so be it...I'll always see those characteristics as proper manners.

But to be able to do those things I've first got to have a date, it's kinda hard when you're as ass-ugly as I. So to any single ladies reading this wondering if I'm worth the trouble to go out one on date with please know this: not only will I treat you with respect and act as a gentleman should, I also put out on the first date.

Depends. If you stop having sex (or trying to get it) do you stop doing those things?

As for who people hold doors open for - if any of you let a door slam into someone's face (unless they've insulted your daughter.... wait, that's sexist, son then) you deserve a bloody good slap. Since you've already put the effort into holding open doors then if someone would benefit within a reasonable time frame (i.e. 2-3 seconds*) then hold it open.











* extend to 5 seconds if she's hot, and 10 seconds if she's got big boobs and starts jogging towards you (arch eyebrows guilts them into jogging).

Wait, what, what?!?

 

[camstory]

I'm willing to play the game

I'm not only willing to play it, I actually enjoy it. That does not mean that I think it is much more than a game these days. (In our modern western world much of the protections that chivalry once guarded are no longer a danger.) But as a game, it is a game that shows the respect held for the protections offered long ago by the generally physically stronger of genders, for those of the more vulnerable, when those things could and did at times make a difference. Is it a role playing game, I think it is, but we are men and women. I accept, and even respect ppl who care not to embrace those roles at any measure, (I refuse to put on much of the male roles others might feel would diminish their personage). And, I also think there is no harm in many of the roles we do play. If though, I understand a woman I am with is uncomfortable with me playing these roles, I don't see any reason to make her uncomfortable. (As I first mentioned though, I enjoy the game, so I might enjoy myself less if asked to drop the role.)

(I feel the need sadly to offer some opposing understandings I have to the eggshells I may have crushed under foot. To say the male gender is generally the stronger physically, I feel is just stating fact. I believe the fact is that females generally are the more hardy of the genders in spite of their lesser physical build. And, I would suggest anyone who might fell differently read a detailed account of the Donner party tragedy of 1846.)

I respect those that stick their middle finger to the lie. I wish we all could be that honest.

This is what I aim for as often as possible, though I nearly always miss the mark. (It is a tough task for one who spent most of his life being wishy washy, and being worried to tell everyone what I thought they wanted to hear, and only honestly speaking my mind when that happened to line up conveniently.) I'll finish a bit off topic, but it ties in with the honesty and bravery to flip off the lie. It seems to me that it has become very popular for ppl to be aggressively contrary for no other reason than being contrary, and that many mistake this often for true honesty of convictions?

 

[camstory]

deciding which stranger to open a door for based on the contents of their underpants is sexist. Opening the door for those you love is polite. Opening the door for any random stranger who seems in need is polite. Opening the door for only people who have the sex parts you are into is self serving.

I agree completely, and I enjoy offering the right of way/door held open for anyone that is following me out, entering as I'm exiting, etc. Can I honestly say I might not quicken my step a bit if the person coming in as I am going out was female, vs male? No, I can't, and the fact that in doing that feels OK b/c it would feel awkward if I did the same with a male, I understand does not change that it is sexest. (and imho part of our societal & my weirdness that would be better shed, so we (I) might not feel awkward in such cases.) And, yes it is self serving, but can a thing not be both self serving, and of service to someone else?

 

[ACFFAN69]

(I feel the need sadly to offer some opposing understandings I have to the eggshells I may have crushed under foot. To say the male gender is generally the stronger physically, I feel is just stating fact. I believe the fact is that females generally are the more hardy of the genders in spite of their lesser physical build. And, I would suggest anyone who might fell differently read a detailed account of the Donner party tragedy of 1846.)

Or the ladies who marched on Versaille during the French revolution, made hardier then their male counterparts due to their chosen profession; or the female soldiers in Russia who shocked the Germans in WW2 (who most likely only went to war because they discounted the female manpower that communist Russia was able to embolden with a sense of equality. Female snipers in fact have been generally regarded historically since that war as preferable snipers) (edit: And let's make no mistake, Russia vs Germany was by far the most important aspect of WW2), or Mother Lü in china. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure we could make a huge list of other examples. I admit though, these examples are notable because they are few and far between, so I bow to your conclusion.

I respect those that stick their middle finger to the lie. I wish we all could be that honest.

This is what I aim for as often as possible, though I nearly always miss the mark. (It is a tough task for one who spent most of his life being wishy washy, and being worried to tell everyone what I thought they wanted to hear, and only honestly speaking my mind when that happened to line up conveniently.) I'll finish a bit off topic, but it ties in with the honesty and bravery to flip off the lie. It seems to me that it has become very popular for ppl to be aggressively contrary for no other reason than being contrary, and that many mistake this often for true honesty of convictions?

I'm glad you mentioned this because I'm almost always playing devil's advocate in any conversation.

 

[SaffronBurke]

While I've seen a few things mentioned, nobody has voiced their opinion on whether it's appropriate for the man to always pay for the meal. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Personally, unless the guy I'm seeing is a sugar daddy, I would feel bad if he was always paying. In a sugar relationship, it's kinda expected that the guy is paying for everything, but I'd still offer to tip the server or something.

The rest of the time, in the case of a first date or a new relationship, I think that whoever initiated the date should pay. In a more long-term relationship, where eating out is frequently a mutual decision, I feel that it's fair to take turns in some way.

 

[Rose]

While I've seen a few things mentioned, nobody has voiced their opinion on whether it's appropriate for the man to always pay for the meal. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Personally, unless the guy I'm seeing is a sugar daddy, I would feel bad if he was always paying. In a sugar relationship, it's kinda expected that the guy is paying for everything, but I'd still offer to tip the server or something.

The rest of the time, in the case of a first date or a new relationship, I think that whoever initiated the date should pay. In a more long-term relationship, where eating out is frequently a mutual decision, I feel that it's fair to take turns in some way.

It depends on who's going out together and what the circumstances are. I'll take a few examples from my life.

BJ and I went out on a date when I was 17. I had a crappy job and had only just finished high school about 6 months prior. He paid for dinner and a movie. Fast forward to this Saturday, I took him out for Christmas shopping, movie, popcorn, and put gas in the van. I paid for all of it, but he cleaned the whole house and did the finances. For my birthday date next month, it will be the opposite; he'll pay and I'll probably clean.

My sister and I agreed to go to dinner, shopping, and a movie together when she was 16 and I was 19. She was still in school, I had a job and a home. I paid for pretty much everything. Last winter we agreed to do the same, minus the shopping. She has a job, I have a job, we split the bill and head back to mom's house for drinks and a free movie on the couch.

I invite an old friend from our days living on base to go to dinner with me to catch up. He offers lunch instead. We split the bill because of the compromise and casual nature.

My brother invites me for coffee with his wife on a Tuesday afternoon. They invited me and it's casual so I let them pay.

I invite my mother to lunch and coffee. It's just the two of us so we split the bill. I invite her to dinner with BJ and I out at a nicer restaurant. It's a nicer place and BJ is attending, so I pay the bill.

 

[IndicaDesires]

I like chivalry. It's one thing to show those mannerisms on a date because you want me to feel special, and another thing entirely to actually be sexist and say or do things that imply I'm weak and can't do them for myself.

That being said, I don't expect chivalrous behavior. If I go out with a guy, he won't lose brownie points if he doesn't open my car door. But he might gain some if he does. But not all girls are the same. Some will take offense to it. I think if you accidentally offend a woman this way, just apologize and make sure she knows you're doing those things out of trying to be polite, not because you think she's delicate or weak. Also on the flip side.... ladies, try not to get offended by it. Remember that many men are raised by their mothers and father's to do things like that. You see that a lot in the south.

 

[IndicaDesires]

While I've seen a few things mentioned, nobody has voiced their opinion on whether it's appropriate for the man to always pay for the meal. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Personally, unless the guy I'm seeing is a sugar daddy, I would feel bad if he was always paying. In a sugar relationship, it's kinda expected that the guy is paying for everything, but I'd still offer to tip the server or something.

The rest of the time, in the case of a first date or a new relationship, I think that whoever initiated the date should pay. In a more long-term relationship, where eating out is frequently a mutual decision, I feel that it's fair to take turns in some way.

my current boyfriend has always paid for my meals. But he has a good job, and I just started camming on mfc (and flirt4free wasn't very lucrative) last month so I've been broke. I intend to try and make things more even now that I have some income. Also, in my defense, I'm a cheap date. We go out for Mexican food and wings. Both of us can eat at those places for 40 bucks, most of that being his beer :-D . And I only see him once or twice a month at most, sometimes we will go 2 or 3 months before he has time to come back and visit. So it's not like we go out often. Long distance relationships are loads of fun.

 

[camstory]

(I feel the need sadly to offer some opposing understandings I have to the eggshells I may have crushed under foot. To say the male gender is generally the stronger physically, I feel is just stating fact. I believe the fact is that females generally are the more hardy of the genders in spite of their lesser physical build. And, I would suggest anyone who might fell differently read a detailed account of the Donner party tragedy of 1846.)

Or the ladies who marched on Versaille during the French revolution, made hardier then their male counterparts due to their chosen profession; or the female soldiers in Russia who shocked the Germans in WW2 (who most likely only went to war because they discounted the female manpower that communist Russia was able to embolden with a sense of equality. Female snipers in fact have been generally regarded historically since that war as preferable snipers) (edit: And let's make no mistake, Russia vs Germany was by far the most important aspect of WW2), or Mother Lü in china. This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure we could make a huge list of other examples. I admit though, these examples are notable because they are few and far between, so I bow to your conclusion.

I respect those that stick their middle finger to the lie. I wish we all could be that honest.

This is what I aim for as often as possible, though I nearly always miss the mark. (It is a tough task for one who spent most of his life being wishy washy, and being worried to tell everyone what I thought they wanted to hear, and only honestly speaking my mind when that happened to line up conveniently.) I'll finish a bit off topic, but it ties in with the honesty and bravery to flip off the lie. It seems to me that it has become very popular for ppl to be aggressively contrary for no other reason than being contrary, and that many mistake this often for true honesty of convictions?

I'm glad you mentioned this because I'm almost always playing devil's advocate in any conversation.

Yes offering just the one example, did not mean I did not think of others. I was between the Russian defence of Leningrad while under siege, and the Donner party. I also thought to use the examples of Aleut woman during the fur trade years when Russian traders striped complete islands of all the male population and left the woman to fend for themselves. I knew only the Donner story well enough to know how persuasive the evidence is. There is also the whole child bearing thing. But perhaps the best support for my not so well educated conjecture, is that for roughly a million to half a million years, depending on how you measure, modern women has had to survive, and adapt to modern men.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

It may be sexist, but I really don't care. I believe there can be some positive sexist things. For example, I get free drinks for having a vagina. I also get to cam on MFC because I have a vagina. I also get to go to an all woman's gym because I have a vagina.
As "sexist" as that all may be, I love it.
Being a man will always have a ton or natural advantages like generally being stronger, not having periods, and not having to give birth. So I really don't think it's unfair for women to have their own advantages, too.
I don't know if I would say I expect chivalry because the majority of men now don't seem to be very chivalrous. But I won't date a man that is not chivalrous. I had a guy not open the door for me on a date once and I stayed outside of the restaraunt until he came back and did it.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

I really think chivalry is a preference.
Some guys prefer brunettes but we don't say, "you are discriminating against blondes!!!"
But I prefer men that are chivalrous and that's "sexism."
Even if it is at its core, that seems very radical to label it as such.

 

[RubyDimples]

If we take gender out of the picture, it should just be human decency to another human being. Lets stop basing everything on sex and rather on how decent we are to each other.

 

[LilyMarie]

While I've seen a few things mentioned, nobody has voiced their opinion on whether it's appropriate for the man to always pay for the meal. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Personally, unless the guy I'm seeing is a sugar daddy, I would feel bad if he was always paying. In a sugar relationship, it's kinda expected that the guy is paying for everything, but I'd still offer to tip the server or something.

The rest of the time, in the case of a first date or a new relationship, I think that whoever initiated the date should pay. In a more long-term relationship, where eating out is frequently a mutual decision, I feel that it's fair to take turns in some way.

Whether I feel bad when my date insists on paying for a meal and whether I try to talk them out of it so that we can split depends on their income to be quite honest. :?

 

[AmberCutie]

While I've seen a few things mentioned, nobody has voiced their opinion on whether it's appropriate for the man to always pay for the meal. What are everyone's thoughts on this?

Personally, unless the guy I'm seeing is a sugar daddy, I would feel bad if he was always paying. In a sugar relationship, it's kinda expected that the guy is paying for everything, but I'd still offer to tip the server or something.

The rest of the time, in the case of a first date or a new relationship, I think that whoever initiated the date should pay. In a more long-term relationship, where eating out is frequently a mutual decision, I feel that it's fair to take turns in some way.

Whether I feel bad when my date insists on paying for a meal and whether I try to talk them out of it so that we can split depends on their income to be quite honest. :?

I think that's understandable. If I was dating someone that was open about the fact that they had a super well paying job, I'd feel just fine with them paying for the majority of dates. I'd still want to pay for our coffee or a drink now and again, though. Just to feel like I'm contributing.

 

[Gen]

I feel pretty much the same as Amber & Lily about paying for dates. My first grown-up boyfriend was super successful while I was working part-time for minimum wage. I would sneak him a Starbucks or two but generally he played for all of our dates because if we'd tried to split the cost, it would've been the McDonald's dollar menu every night :lol: likewise when I had a full-time job and dated a student, I got to play sugar mama and pay for most things because I wanted to do stuff that cost money and I had some and he didn't. Once you're established in a relationship I think it's more just practicality than anything.

I do think chivalry is sexist at its origin but it's one of those sexist things that a) I benefit from, and b) I don't think most people do with sexist intention. If someone is opening doors and whatever because they like me and want to baby me a little, I think that's sweet and I'll probably baby them right back in my own way.

If I had the opportunity to achieve my feminist ideal world and chivalry had to be abolished to do so, I'd let it go, but as things are now it really isn't the biggest deal to me and in my experience, guys like doing it and girls like receiving it so it works for me.

 

[AuroraKnight]

My opinion on this may be skewed because I was raised in a Mormon family, but for the most part I expect chivalry.

The door thing we all seem to be stuck on though is just common courtesy, if I reach the door before you, I'll hold it open, regardless of gender or age. Though I've found that at least in my small town, if I hold the door for a man, more often then not, he'll rush to grab it and wave me through before going through himself.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Every once in a while, a guy will actually rush to get in front of me so that he can hold the door for me.

That's just awkward for both of us. You can take the door for me if we get there around the same time or if you get there second. But don't cut in front of me. I'll probably end up stepping on your feet, because I'm a fast walker and don't expect people to randomly appear in front of me.