Inspired by some recent events

[Violet Dawn]

In a lot of ways respect is admiration. To respect is to have admiration for someone.
I mean its the definition of respect--literally--a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
Let me be clear though I am not agreeing that "Nathan" confused the two, only that respect is directly
related to admiration through its definition etc.

I never have to like someone to respect them. I respect someone because I think people should have basic respect as a living being until they lose that respect. I can even dislike someone personally, but still have respect for them. I think the definition of respect is not the one we commonly practice in today's society, because as young children we are taught we need to respect each other. But we are not taught that we need to like each other.


Edit: Or, at least this is how I was raised and taught how the world works. I can't speak for anyone else here.

 

[JickyJuly]

One thing that I don't think we've touched on, forgive me if someone else has mentioned and I missed it, is the sheer volume of people camgirls deal with. We don't need to agree that the sexual aspect of it makes for more danger. I'm not sure it does. It could really just be that in dealing with SO many people the numbers can add up enough to make the likelihood of interacting with someone who poses a threat. I mean, in my entire time as a camgirl, I've been pretty shitty at it. I'm a mid level girl at best. Even with that amount of traffic, I see many times more people than I did working in retail, waitressing or doing hair in a shift. Who knows how many potential nutters the top girls sidestep on a given night.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Just from reading the various quotes throughout the thread, it's pretty obvious that some people
view it in different ways, just by reading the individual posts.

You can't agree to disagree that there are multiple definitions of the word 'respect', there just are. It just is.
It is a word used commonly for multiple expressions, both noun and verb. Any where from "paying your respect" to "in the respect" to "respecting an individuals right to happiness"... none of these have anything to do with deep admiration. This is one of the reasons why English is such a hard language to learn.

Anywho I'm pretty sure this verb definition of respect is what Amber was referring to.

• have due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of.
  "I respected his views"
  synonyms: show consideration for, have regard for, observe, be mindful of, be heedful of;
  formaltake cognizance of
  "they respected our privacy"
  antonyms: scorn
• avoid harming or interfering with.
  "it is incumbent upon all boaters to respect the environment"

Edit: just realized I may have misunderstood what you were agreeing to disagree on, but I think the source of the debate, Amber, is probably the only one that need be discussed since her use is what has people all puffy.

 

[nathanielfromessex]

I'm curious to know why you have this opinion. Not trying to pick a battle, but interested to know for what reasons you have that makes you feel that cam modeling is not a respectable choice of employment.

I want to start by saying thank you for responding in a mature manner. To answer the question, mostly because they don't do anything deserving of respect. Requires zero education and zero training. Literally anyone can be a cam model. You don't even have to be conventionally attractive or even be in good physical shape. Hard job to hold in high regards when it has no requirements. Still have lots of respect for many camgirls. The work ethic and hustle of Kickaz is something I have a lot of respect for. The creativity of VeronicaChaos is another thing I have lots of respect for. Simply turning on a cam isn't something I find deserving of any respect. Let me be clear, camming is a respectable choice of employment if that is what one chooses. Just not a job that demands respect to me like some do.

 

[Influenced]

Who knows how many potential nutters the top girls sidestep on a given night.

I agree with this, especially when blocking your region or state is pointless now with VPN's etc. You just never know in any given situation
what a person is or isn't going to do, if they are going to act on their good impulses or bad impulses, acts of kindness, acts of rage, taking stalking
and obsession to the next level...etc. I think all of us on this thread can at least agree that no matter what, it's pretty scary out there. Safety has to
be a number one concern. I think it is helpful for us all to help spread the word just for safety in general on issues such as these.

 

[Influenced]

You can't agree to disagree that there are multiple definitions of the word 'respect'

Good Point.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Who knows how many potential nutters the top girls sidestep on a given night.

I like this quote a lot, side-step them they seem to do, with their behaviour on cam. They seem to keep them safely, not release them to other models, now that is something to respect.
I do think they are still at risk, but always seem safer than others. I guess they have similar social skills to a psychologist, keeping them safer.

 

[JickyJuly]

I like this quote a lot, side-step them they seem to do, with their behaviour on cam. They seem to keep them safely, not release them to other models, now that is something to respect.
I do think they are still at risk, but always seem safer than others. I guess they have similar social skills to a psychologist, keeping them safer.

That's an interesting take. I was definitely supposing the opposite that the higher up the ladder a girl gets the more likely she is to come into contact with danger. In the scenario that brought Amber to begin this thread, for instance, the dangerous party never actually interacted with the girl on camera it sounds like. By the time the camgirl had any interaction with the person, they had already built some wild delusions. The internet is a weird place.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Not to put words in Amber's mouth, but I don't think she's arguing that the second a girl registers as a model on a cam site, they should automatically be held in the same esteem as a doctor or a nurse or Bill Murray - I think she's just arguing that cam girls (like every other human being) deserve a base level of respect that precludes them from being harassed for their occupational lifestyle choices, and perhaps the recognition that with their profession comes risks that might not be readily apparent to all.

 

[Ambers Troll]

That's an interesting take. I was definitely supposing the opposite that the higher up the ladder a girl gets the more likely she is to come into contact with danger. In the scenario that brought Amber to begin this thread, for instance, the dangerous party never actually interacted with the girl on camera it sounds like. By the time the camgirl had any interaction with the person, they had already built some wild delusions. The internet is a weird place.

I would agree top models would be more exposed to danger.
I suspect in the instance you described they did try contact/ interaction at some point, but it may have failed in some way. No attempt at contact would be rare and even scarier.

My point about top models was one of defusing some risk. There are certain types of behaviour that are effective, such as clear rules of behaviour, and ways of including more risky people without triggering obsessive impulses. JoleneBrody is one such model but will finish on another as an example.
Something from Jessica Wilde comes to mind 'People are fucking weird.... You know that guy that nobody talks to and your kinda scared of him. I know him on an extremely intimate level. And let me tell you.. I'm a little worried.'

 

[LittleLei]

Requires zero education and zero training. Literally anyone can be a cam model. You don't even have to be conventionally attractive or even be in good physical shape. Hard job to hold in high regards when it has no requirements.

We may not have an education system, courses, training in a traditional way as many skilled jobs require, but god damn we are the students and our own teachers & bosses. Our learning doesn't stop and end with a certificate of completion and no one tells what or how to do things. You know off cam we have to learn how to be our own bosses with taxes, health coverage, savings. My job may not seem like I needed any education or training to you, but I've been able to speak and educate taxes, health plans and 401ks to my fellow peers, that you will deem have had "respected training requirements" in the field they are in, who have little to any comprehension how those things work, because those things are taken care of and calculated for them already.

The bolded sentence is confusing to me, I don't get how physical appearance is relevant, but I'll leave it with this... "You could be the ripest, juciest peach in the world, but there's still going to be someone who hates peaches."

If that's your opinion and views, then it is what it is, and I'm not here to change it. However, I do hope that maybe you will come around see that it isn't a job that literally anyone can do and an easy one for that matter. I gotta say pretty dicey to make that statement on a forum based and contributed by models, cause when I read that the model in me really said, "I work hard, and no one taught me, except me." And I'm sure all the models felt that way..

I'd like to end this response in a way that's not going to steer away from the original topic. I asked a question, thank you for your answer.

 

[nathanielfromessex]

Not to put words in Amber's mouth, but I don't think she's arguing that the second a girl registers as a model on a cam site, they should automatically be held in the same esteem as a doctor or a nurse or Bill Murray - I think she's just arguing that cam girls (like every other human being) deserve a base level of respect that precludes them from being harassed for their occupational lifestyle choices, and perhaps the recognition that with their profession comes risks that might not be readily apparent to all.

 

[Ambers Troll]

Respect for the choice to be a cam model for me comes from the confidence I took from my experiences, a whole heap of healing a damaged past, steering me away from a dangerous path, and helping me find myself (I was pretty lost).

When I started out I made a deliberate decision to explore my fantasies fully, I used a good chunk of savings, and just went for it with whoever I wanted to enjoy over the next few months. Not worrying about spending was awesome, but it also gave me the chance to really explore what type of women are out there doing this work. There is much to respect about most models, and some really amazing women, especially those who can start a good life for themselves doing this.

Members can see models as only chasing payday. Many models maintain friendships with a member they like, even if he chooses to disappoint them and move on to the company of other models for many many months. I respect this kind of emotional security, and so so many models possess it. I find it is the one thing that defines models doing this type of work for any time....respect.

 

[ferreus1982]

Sure, stalking is not limited just to girls working in the sex industry. However, the fact that part of our job is to sell fantasy and digital intimacy makes the likelihood much higher. The Internet makes it easy for mentally ill folks to access us and create their own delusions about relationships that sane people would realize are fantasy and "just for fun".

I remember a number of years ago reading an interview with a radio personality, where that person talked about how because they are on the radio 4 hours a day, and people listen to them from years and years every day, that sometimes when they meet these fans or talk to them when they call in, the fans act like they have been good friends for years. They sit in their car or at work for hours listening everyday, and they make some sort of association in their head that the people they are listening to are there with them. Many camgirls put in 10+ hours a day 6-7 days in a row, and are constantly interacting with the people in their room, in many cases in quite an intimate fashion, so I can imagine they are at an even higher risk.

 

[JoleneBrody]

I remember a number of years ago reading an interview with a radio personality, where that person talked about how because they are on the radio 4 hours a day, and people listen to them from years and years every day, that sometimes when they meet these fans or talk to them when they call in, the fans act like they have been good friends for years. They sit in their car or at work for hours listening everyday, and they make some sort of association in their head that the people they are listening to are there with them. Many camgirls put in 10+ hours a day 6-7 days in a row, and are constantly interacting with the people in their room, in many cases in quite an intimate fashion, so I can imagine they are at an even higher risk.

I recall a podcaster saying something very similar not too long ago. I do think it's a little different when it's so one sided, such as radio because you aren't so able to catch red flags before they escalate.
However, at any given time 90% of the people watching me will never speak a single word and are essentially watching me like tv or radio... or even just following instagram and tumblr, developing connections that are also one sided and scarily void of red flag early signs.
The people that are drawn to cam girls social medias that are NOT members are much scarier too... :/you make one little slip up and maybe your regs wont care... but what about the 20-50k other people who you know nothing about.

 

[CherryChu]

I want to start by saying thank you for responding in a mature manner. To answer the question, mostly because they don't do anything deserving of respect. Requires zero education and zero training. Literally anyone can be a cam model. You don't even have to be conventionally attractive or even be in good physical shape. Hard job to hold in high regards when it has no requirements. Still have lots of respect for many camgirls. The work ethic and hustle of Kickaz is something I have a lot of respect for. The creativity of VeronicaChaos is another thing I have lots of respect for. Simply turning on a cam isn't something I find deserving of any respect. Let me be clear, camming is a respectable choice of employment if that is what one chooses. Just not a job that demands respect to me like some do.

Soooo why are you on a forum full of camgirls if you don't think it's deserving of respect and takes no skill or talent whatsoever?? Have you even seen the lengths some of us go to in order to try to be successful...?

Last time I saw a list of skills and jobs that camgirls do when running their own businesses (which it is) it was something like this:

- model
- porn actress
- conversationalist/comedian
- counsellor
- lighting technician
- interior designer
- hairdresser
- makeup artist
- computer technician
- video editor
- photo editor
- PR/marketing director
- web designer
- costume designer
- artist
- accountant
- bouncer

And that's all I can think of right now when I haven't slept all night... the original list was longer

 

[ferreus1982]

I do think it's a little different when it's so one sided, such as radio because you aren't so able to catch red flags before they escalate.
However, at any given time 90% of the people watching me will never speak a single word and are essentially watching me like tv or radio... or even just following instagram and tumblr, developing connections that are also one sided and scarily void of red flag early signs.

Hmm, I didn't think about the red flags thing, that is a good point. Really, this whole thing has me thinking a lot now about the model/member interaction thing, in a very different way than when I joined MFC.

 

[CherryChu]

Regardless - I'm going to go with the definition of respect in this case as being 'deserving of basic rights/happiness/security/etc, being seen as a person' that kind of thing. That's what's necessary. I don't really care if you think a doctor or nurse is more 'admirable' than I am - but you don't get to tell me I don't deserve to live without fear. Pretty sure that's actually basic human right as defined by the UN actually...

All of this is why sometimes I think maybe it's entirely pointless to be vague about my location and all that? For one thing, I'm a terrible liar, so I'm guaranteed to slip up if I give lots of fake info. Either way, last time I had a stalker I put him in hospital and then jail. If a stalker managed to get hold of me I'd sure as fuck make the interaction difficult for them. I almost feel like that's what it'd take for stalkers to be deterred - like if someone did find my address and show up at my house and I castrated them with a spoon, then I guess maybe others might be less inclined to follow? Ha.

We shouldn't have to threaten retaliation in order to deter these people. We also shouldn't have to explain our income goals. Some of us are just trying to make minimum wage or support families. I freak out when I have a number of slow days because it means I won't be able to pay my bills. If I have a slow day but things have been going well beforehand, then that sucks, but it's not the end of the world. Every model will have her own reason for being upset over not meeting goals.

And have we even mentioned yet how camming is not an 18-65 job?? We have no idea how long we can stay in the job - younger and newer girls turn up, we get wrinkles, the world decides that's not attractive so we lose out. Some camgirls are successful into their 30s and 40s and beyond but it seems to be rare. I'm 24; there are models who retire from camming younger than I am now. I have no idea how long I can do this, so while I'm here, I want to make as much as I can so that I have savings to ease the transition into whatever I do afterwards. I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[nathanielfromessex]

The word respect can mean different things to different people. I really didn't think Amber was talking about the common respect that all people deserve. Feel kinda shitty now. Took it the wrong way and was wondering why is she acting like some kind of astrophysicys, astrophysis, like some kind of astronaut.

Wow. You sound like the kind of person who would say that a camgirl/woman in general getting catcalled or assaulted is ok because "they were asking for it."

Won't be responding to those looking to engage in this type of buffoonery in the future. Crazy amounts of mental gymnastics being done just to make a personal attack. No thank you.

 

[AmberCutie]

The word respect can mean different things to different people. I really didn't think Amber was talking about the common respect that all people deserve. Feel kinda shitty now.

I wrapped up my post with this:

or at the very least refrain from making judgments and nasty comments if you disapprove of their aspirations.

which was sort of meant to be a reference to giving us that basic respect. So many people out there refuse to acknowledge us as legitimate humans just because our job is taboo, and throw a fit when we speak up about things that bother us as if we don't have the right to. I don't insist for a moment that people must admire and hold us to high regard, just that camming and other sex work is a real job and we deserve basic respect just like any other working person.

 

[bud9752]

CIVILITY

 

[ComicOzzie]

Treating other people with respect should be your default position.

 

[BobbyB]

I want to start by saying thank you for responding in a mature manner. To answer the question, mostly because they don't do anything deserving of respect. Requires zero education and zero training. Literally anyone can be a cam model. You don't even have to be conventionally attractive or even be in good physical shape. Hard job to hold in high regards when it has no requirements. Still have lots of respect for many camgirls. The work ethic and hustle of Kickaz is something I have a lot of respect for. The creativity of VeronicaChaos is another thing I have lots of respect for. Simply turning on a cam isn't something I find deserving of any respect. Let me be clear, camming is a respectable choice of employment if that is what one chooses. Just not a job that demands respect to me like some do.

You are of course entitled to your own view.
I my view camming is closer to an art form than a regular job with a lot of formal training.
To make a living with camming you need to be good at adapting to your customer, if the customer are not happy they don't tip and you don't make money....
Maybe you should try to make money with camming, maybe you will come to a different conclusion about no skills required to be a succesful camgirl / camboy...

 

[CrazyCatLady]

I wrapped up my post with this:

which was sort of meant to be a reference to giving us that basic respect. So many people out there refuse to acknowledge us as legitimate humans just because our job is taboo, and throw a fit when we speak up about things that bother us as if we don't have the right to. I don't insist for a moment that people must admire and hold us to high regard, just that camming and other sex work is a real job and we deserve basic respect just like any other working person.

Exactly. I think THIS IS my biggest problem. It seems like everyone else is allowed to complain at times about their pay, benefits, boss, etc. As soon as a cam girl does we are met with "You just hang out on the internet and get off....stop whining".

I think the majority of the problem is that members only see the "fun" in what we do...because they are having fun. It's understandable but I do wish that people would at least attempt to put themselves in our shoes. Like...turn on your webcam/recorder and record a 4 hour entertaining show. How many people could do it? Not very many. It's exhausting. As members you get to watch TV, eat, leave the room, talk when you want...not talk when you don't want to, log on when you want, log off when you want, go pee when you want, surf the web, make phone calls, text...etc. You also aren't standing up in from of 50, 100, 1000 people who are either all talking at once or no one talking at all.

I had a guy say something similar to me one night in PM after I expressed that I was "exhausted" because I had been on cam 6 hours. I had just finished show and he was asking when I was leaving. He said "What? Exhausted from what?? I worked 8 hours today!" So I played his game. I said? "Oh yeah? What did you have to do?" He said he got to work, had a meeting, processed some documents, went and had a coffee-meeting with a client, came back and cleaned off his desk, went to lunch, spoke with his boss, pushed 4 loans through towards the end of the day and then drove home." I asked him would he rather have done that or done a 6 hour presentation to his boss on why the company should keep him as an employee...his only break being two 1 minute pee breaks. He...of course..said "God no...I'll do what I do everyday vs that. I hate when I have to do any kind of presentation."

Facepalm. That is what we do all day every day. Present ourselves and try to convince everyone that we are awesome and fun and pretty and worthy of their tokens.

Seriously. Just imagine that. Having to stand in front of your peers/boss for 6+ hours straight and entertain them...where you are the sole entertainer. Is doesn't matter if you add drinks or music....it is still EXHAUSTING and it does take talent, ambition and drive. If it didn't most camgirls wouldn't quit within the first 3 months.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

To answer the question, mostly because they don't do anything deserving of respect. Requires zero education and zero training. Literally anyone can be a cam model. You don't even have to be conventionally attractive or even be in good physical shape. Hard job to hold in high regards when it has no requirements.

Eh.

You do realize that the majority of military service members join the military with no education and no training. Yet everyone seems to hold service members in high regard. That seems like a really stupid reason to infer that someone is not deserving of respect when you literally have to have more knowledge to become a cam girl than to join the military. Lol.

 

[JickyJuly]

That's not really true. You have to do the ASVAB test to be in the military, not be disabled in any notable way and make it through boot camp in one piece. Still, if someone's ability to take a standardized test, do push-ups or buy a college degree decides whether you have respect for them, you're kind of a tool. Camming is like most service industry jobs. They don't require degrees (although plenty do require technical school and licensing) and your personality and ability to deal with other human's nonsense is going to decide whether or not you're successful. It might be worth noting that LOTS of camgirls are actually educated in other fields before ending up on cam. So the girl that you're choosing not to respect in the same manner you would a nurse or an accountant or a lawyer might actually BE a nurse or an accountant or a lawyer who got burned out and went for a new path or a break.

 

[CrazyCatLady]

That's not really true. You have to do the ASVAB test to be in the military, not be disabled in any notable way and make it through boot camp in one piece. Still, if someone's ability to take a standardized test, do push-ups or buy a college degree decides whether you have respect for them, you're kind of a tool. Camming is like most service industry jobs. They don't require degrees (although plenty do require technical school and licensing) and your personality and ability to deal with other human's nonsense is going to decide whether or not you're successful. It might be worth noting that LOTS of camgirls are actually educated in other fields before ending up on cam. So the girl that you're choosing not to respect in the same manner you would a nurse or an accountant or a lawyer might actually BE a nurse or an accountant or a lawyer who got burned out and went for a new path or a break.

My comment was a little tongue in cheek about the military. In any case the ASVAB can be passed by a 10th grader fairly easily...and if you are talking about anyone who joined the military 2001-2006 they got you a waiver even if you didn't pass..and they will still occasionally waiver scores.

But I guess my point is that it's such a weird thing to say you don't respect someone if they have a job that doesn't require experience or education. Because there are so many jobs that start that way but you gain all the experience and education through blood sweat and tears and are some of the most respected jobs in the country (the military being one of them).

Not to mention your comment about a lot of us being in careers and being educated before/during camming is so spot on. Just because we don't talk about these things on cam (for security reasons) doesn't mean we didn't/don't have careers, education and professional licenses.

 

[JoleneBrody]

When someones default setting is to LOOK for something wrong with a person asking to be treated with kindness... resulting in assigning definitions to words used that honestly in context, make little sense to jump too... that's troubling. That's the problem yo! That's exactly what we are talking about, people are quicker to search for reasons to not treat sex workers decently than the other way around. This thread is a bright shining example of that.

I get that you are basically (or entirely) a troll @nathanielfromessex and feather rufflin is fun, but if you do honestly feel bad and see what happened I hope you and a few others go back and actually think about how you got to that misunderstanding in the first place. Reflect on it and shit, and maybe take a few minutes extra to consider how your mindset also affects how you treat other women and sex workers in your day to day interactions.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Exactly. I think THIS IS my biggest problem. It seems like everyone else is allowed to complain at times about their pay, benefits, boss, etc. As soon as a cam girl does we are met with "You just hang out on the internet and get off....stop whining".

I think the majority of the problem is that members only see the "fun" in what we do...because they are having fun. It's understandable but I do wish that people would at least attempt to put themselves in our shoes. Like...turn on your webcam/recorder and record a 4 hour entertaining show. How many people could do it? Not very many. It's exhausting. As members you get to watch TV, eat, leave the room, talk when you want...not talk when you don't want to, log on when you want, log off when you want, go pee when you want, surf the web, make phone calls, text...etc. You also aren't standing up in from of 50, 100, 1000 people who are either all talking at once or no one talking at all.

I don't disagree with this necessarily but I do feel that when and how and to whom a cam girl complains about not making their goals or whatever their grievance at the time is, is kind of important. If Coca Cola complained on Twitter that they sold less Coke in February than they did in January despite working just as hard throughout both months, I don't think the end result would be people buying more Coke. And of course being a cam girl is harder than being a member. But given that cam girls are (hopefully) being paid to be there and members aren't, it really shouldn't be any other way, ya know?

 

[Miss_D]

The word respect can mean different things to different people.

You irritate me. Why are you even on this forum to begin with, since you seem to disagree and 'shit' all over everything we (read: us cam girls) say?

Also, that was rhetorical. Please keep your nonsensical answer to yourself.