How about a list of models and sites who scam .

[Deleted member 88752]

How about a list of models and the sites that scam and use manipulation techniques and prey on vulnerabilities?
Put their name on blast so people know. Stop protecting bad people, thats Bullshit.

 

[MarieElise]

How about a list of models and the sites that scam and use manipulation techniques and prey on vulnerabilities?
Put their name on blast so people know. Stop protecting bad people, thats Bullshit.

We are indie models here, we don't protect bad people. But at the same time, it's not Amber's responsibility, when she already helps the Community out so much, to take on the responsibility of running a black list. Not to mention the possible legalities involved. Please consider that you may not be mentally mature enough for cam sites, despite your age (judging by your post history here). Kind of a ridiculous, and impractical idea. This isn't; duct tape a forum and industry together from chewed gum, a popsicle stick, and a few candy wrappers. There are a mass of legalities involved

 

[Marceline]

We are indie models here, we don't protect bad people.

No on here has anything to gain by defending blatant scammers.

However, the issue (aside from legality) with having an open “blacklist”, whether it be models or members, is that a lot of the time some person who got their feelings hurt over something trivial can claim that they got scammed or manipulated, when that’s not the case. There’s members who have posted here that claimed to be scammed, but when pressed for details it’s shown that the model was just being flirtatious (i.e doing her job) and he took it for more than it was, or he got banned after doing/saying something out of pocket. Either that, or its members/models claiming a successful model is scamming simply because they make good money and it makes those people insecure. A great example, back in the day we had a plethora of posts about one particular CB model. The venom people would spew towards her was disgusting. And, she didn’t scam. She never promised anything. People were just angry because she was extremely popular and clearly made a lot of tips.

But, in the situations where a model clearly love conned someone or scammed, you don’t see people defending those actions.

Also, a model blacklist wouldn’t actually work, because it’s not like someone will look up a model they think is hot to see if she’s on a blacklist before tipping her. It would just be a circle jerk of members bitching to each other.

One last thing, if anyone feels that they are susceptible to manipulation or are vulnerable, that’s something they should talk to with a therapist so that they can find the root cause of and overcome. Here’s a list of resources to help with that:

The Best Online Mental Health Resources | Sprout Health Group

As we brace for months of social isolation and financial uncertainty, online mental health resources have become a lifeline for relieving anxiety.

www.sprouthealthgroup.com

 

[Iluvablow69]

Wow, what replies

Thread closed.... haha

 

[Maxi]

I love how certain members say models are scammers when such a large proportion of public (and probably private) messages from members are about trying to get a model to do something for free idiots.

Love (hate)

 

[Highlander884]

Curious though. Aside from Google review stuff. Is there a page (besides those forum) that can warn models about any dodgy studios/employers.

Just I know 2 individual models who found they were getting lied to about how much they had earned by the same studio (apparently the studio is no longer around)

And while non of the models I know have been sexually harassed by admins/studio owners, there is still that worry they might end up working for an andrew tate like guy.

I mean it sounds like there's an underground forum for those that live in St petersberg but just wondering if a girl in eastern europe/south America etc etc can look up and see previous girls opinions of a studio?

 

[Iluvablow69]

I don't know.
There were things I wanted to post on another thread I started, but there could be actual legal consequences posting certain things online.
I've heard too many things about too many models/studios that make me sick.

I just don't know if this is the right place for it.

 

[Maxi]

Curious though. Aside from Google review stuff. Is there a page (besides those forum) that can warn models about any dodgy studios/employers.

Just I know 2 individual models who found they were getting lied to about how much they had earned by the same studio (apparently the studio is no longer around)

And while non of the models I know have been sexually harassed by admins/studio owners, there is still that worry they might end up working for an andrew tate like guy.

I mean it sounds like there's an underground forum for those that live in St petersberg but just wondering if a girl in eastern europe/south America etc etc can look up and see previous girls opinions of a studio?

Are you talking about a Glassdoor for model studios?

 

[AudriTwo]

I don't know.
There were things I wanted to post on another thread I started, but there could be actual legal consequences posting certain things online.
I've heard too many things about too many models/studios that make me sick.

I just don't know if this is the right place for it.

we've probably heard those things too and condemned them in other threads. tbh, it is annoying. I've been in this industry for over a decade, and no matter how by the book or many times we disavow manipulative scammy tactics here or in other indie cammodel spaces, it's somehow our responsibility to keep other models in check.

i do empathize that members experience lovecon, and i don't want to blame someone for being victimized, but if they keep feeling scammed, then it might more of a personal problem than a cammodels are scammers problem.

 

[Iluvablow69]

we've probably heard those things too and condemned them in other threads. tbh, it is annoying. I've been in this industry for over a decade, and no matter how by the book or many times we disavow manipulative scammy tactics here or in other indie cammodel spaces, it's somehow our responsibility to keep other models in check.

i do empathize that members experience lovecon, and i don't want to blame someone for being victimized, but if they keep feeling scammed, then it might more of a personal problem than a cammodels are scammers problem.

Sorry, I was replying to Highlander884's comment, not the subject of this thread
I just didn't select reply. My bad.

I meant about Studios that take advantage of models, rather than studios/models 'scamming' users.

 

[Highlander884]

Yeah I guess I mean glassdoor like site.

 

[cbhours]

And while non of the models I know have been sexually harassed by admins/studio owners

They probably have been but just didnt register as being harassed because of their countries culture. If you make a check list of things you consider sexual harassment i'd be quite surprised if they don't check at least one item.

Just I know 2 individual models who found they were getting lied to about how much they had earned by the same studio (apparently the studio is no longer around)

didnt follow, why do they need to ask the studio how much they have earned? everyone should keep up with their own numbers and double check every paycheck. I've never worked for a company that didn't make at least one mistake on a paycheck.

 

[NotYou]

Besides, the simple fact is, what one user calls a scam, the rest of us don't, and it's just a way to "hustle" for the job.
You would only ever have the user's side of the story saying the model was scamming blah blah.

 

[Dan Epstein]

Blacklisting a freelancer is a dick move, just like blacklisting a job candidate is a dick move, because you are denying people from making a living based on a hear say. Don’t be an asshole, that simple.

 

[misterical]

How about a list of models and the sites that scam and use manipulation techniques and prey on vulnerabilities?
Put their name on blast so people know. Stop protecting bad people, thats Bullshit.

I've been coming to this site for nearly 3 years and I've never seen anyone protect a bad person, whether that "bad person" was a model or a member.

I have on the other hand seen plenty of three legged antelopes casually strolling into a lion's den waving their tail around and then acting all surprised when they get eaten. I'm all for protecting vulnerable people but there's also an element of taking responsibility for yourself. Cam sites aren't the place for vulnerable people or those who lack self control.

 

[Iluvablow69]

Any Viewer that uses these type of sites frequently and spend tokens on them, will more than likely have had an instance where they feel they spent more than they felt they should have for something.
I can imagine so many Viewers get carried away and spend money they do not have, then regret it later and will claim they got scammed, when they didn't.

Requesting 100 tokens from 1 viewer for something and 1,000 tokens from a different viewer for the same thing, it's not a scam. It's no different from other sales based roles.
Sure that's a big difference, it's just a made up example, and sure the viewer who paid more would not be happy to know they paid 10x the price compared to someone else, but that's life.
It happens in almost every industry where prices are not fixed.

The general consensus here seems to be that this wouldn't be a good idea for multiple reasons. I agree.

 

[Highlander884]

They probably have been but just didnt register as being harassed because of their countries culture. If you make a check list of things you consider sexual harassment i'd be quite surprised if they don't check at least one item.


didnt follow, why do they need to ask the studio how much they have earned? everyone should keep up with their own numbers and double check every paycheck. I've never worked for a company that didn't make at least one mistake on a paycheck.

Oh the girls I've discussed this with, never had anyone hit on them or touch them sexually or suggest shacking up etc etc. Does kind of help that some were all woman working studios.

That's the thing the girls kept count of how much they made but the studio kept saying they had made less then that. Once sure a mistake sure, but most times it's quite clearly bullshit or they really need to hire people that know how to use a calculator properly!

The only 2 times I can think of, where I would have reported a girl for scamming. 1 was a girl who kept telling guys to use her tip menu but wasn't doing any of the flesh showing tips and when reminded just ignored (she wasn't around long).

The other time, girl was non nude who said she would do hand bra for first time at over 10k goal (can't remember what I was told and saw) but when goal was reached she just her hands over her clothes, never took top off or anything. She had done something similar before about putting on a bikini but just wire it on top of her clothes. (This was the bitch that thought she was better then ladies who did nudity and felt it was their "own stupid fault" if they got blackmailed, exposed, named and shamed etc etc)
You could except that as a joke for a few tokens, but if guys are contributing to spending $1k it's a scam.

 

[Skaar_the_Savage]

he got banned after doing/saying something out of pocket.

isn't that the very definition of scamming? ban the guy to avoid doing xyz, or bringing up some half truth as reason to ban the guy?

If it's impossible to communicate, and I'm out of pocket tokens/cash, and without what I requested, that's a problem.

I'm not sure it's fair to say it's the tippers mental health that's the problem if two way communication doesn't' exist for whatever reason AFTER I tip.

A model knew I had more than one account. I didn't hide it at all. I tried to restrict myself to one account. For whatever reason or somehow, the alt account ended up banned from her room even though I didn't use it. So, when I went join fanclub with my main account, the site automatically banned me from her room. When I told the model what happened, she acted like she didn't do anything wrong. She lifted the ban on one account but not the alt account. So each time I got tokens, again, I was banned from her room.

So if I say to the model its a problem, and she ignores it, how am I not supposed to feel scammed?

lets take it further, what if you have a specific request and the model delivers the opposite of your request on purpose. I asked for toe photos, and she sends kneecaps and then bans, isn't that scamming?

 

[AmberCutie]

isn't that the very definition of scamming? ban the guy to avoid doing xyz, or bringing up some half truth as reason to ban the guy?

If it's impossible to communicate, and I'm out of pocket tokens/cash, and without what I requested, that's a problem.

I think you're misunderstanding the phrase "out of pocket".

a person acting unnaturally or in a wild, inappropriate way

Not out of tokens in this context lol

 

[Iluvablow69]

isn't that the very definition of scamming? ban the guy to avoid doing xyz, or bringing up some half truth as reason to ban the guy?

If it's impossible to communicate, and I'm out of pocket tokens/cash, and without what I requested, that's a problem.

I'm not sure it's fair to say it's the tippers mental health that's the problem if two way communication doesn't' exist for whatever reason AFTER I tip.

A model knew I had more than one account. I didn't hide it at all. I tried to restrict myself to one account. For whatever reason or somehow, the alt account ended up banned from her room even though I didn't use it. So, when I went join fanclub with my main account, the site automatically banned me from her room. When I told the model what happened, she acted like she didn't do anything wrong. She lifted the ban on one account but not the alt account. So each time I got tokens, again, I was banned from her room.

So if I say to the model its a problem, and she ignores it, how am I not supposed to feel scammed?

lets take it further, what if you have a specific request and the model delivers the opposite of your request on purpose. I asked for toe photos, and she sends kneecaps and then bans, isn't that scamming?

The site will ban accounts linked with the same card details. Likely she did not ban your main account directly.
There's a delay for some reason. If account 1 is banned, you visit with account 2. You OK to just sit there, as soon as you top up with tokens or interact in any way, instantly you will be banned on account 2 also.

For whatever reason or somehow, the alt account ended up banned from her room

Somehow?
I feel there is more to this story haha

Also, asking for a toe picture and she sends a knee picture, it sounds like you pissed her off 'somehow'.
I guess, technically if you agree on something for a specific price, you paid and they didn't deliver, you could argue it's a scam.
This is just your side of the story.
Maybe I'll start a podcast bringing broadcaster and viewers together to resolve 'scams'.

I am not denying that scams exist somewhere on these sites, it's probably pretty rare.

The only thing that annoys me is the "Oh I'm so shy, however if you send me 10,000 tokens I'll DP for you in private" act.
1) You're clearly not shy
2) 10,000 tokens... :O
Btw, that was a genuine conversation, simplified for you.

Is it a scam or a sales tactic...I don't know...I can see the argument both ways. Either way, it ended there haha

 

[Skaar_the_Savage]

I think you're misunderstanding the phrase "out of pocket".

a person acting unnaturally or in a wild, inappropriate way

Not out of tokens in this context lol

I'm not advocating for a list of scammers or anything.

 

[Vixxen81]

I'm a little curious about this ban thing.

When I ban someone with multiple accounts, all of their accounts are immediately banned as well. If they create a new account, that account is not automatically banned from my room just because I banned the existing accounts previously or because someone buys tokens. If this has changed I want screen shots of it.

The only way I know of to be banned immediately after buying tokens is because you as a person have been banned from the site by Chaturbate staff for a site violation and creating new accounts then buying tokens triggers any new bans on new accounts.

 

[Iluvablow69]

I'm a little curious about this ban thing.

When I ban someone with multiple accounts, all of their accounts are immediately banned as well. If they create a new account, that account is not automatically banned from my room just because I banned the existing accounts previously or because someone buys tokens. If this has changed I want screen shots of it.

The only way I know of to be banned immediately after buying tokens is because you as a person have been banned from the site by Chaturbate staff for a site violation and creating new accounts then buying tokens triggers any new bans on new accounts.

I honestly do not know enough about it.
I just know, 100%, one of my accounts was banned from a Models room (legitimately, the reason was because I didn't respond to her SnapChat lol). I went into that same room with a different account, with the intention to send 25 tokens and a thumbs down. I actually didn't know at the time it had any effect on rankings, I just wanted to express my displeasure. I know, still a dick move, sorry about that.
I was in the room fine, I could watch her if I wanted to, as soon as I tipped 25 tokens, instantly banned from the room - within a millisecond, no way she could have clicked it that fast.

It may surprise you, but I haven't been banned from many rooms haha therefore I do not have much experience with it.

 

[Skaar_the_Savage]

I feel there is more to this story haha
This is just your side of the story.

Yeah well ideally, I would want her side of the story and what I asked, and .... oh look, more girls.
My admin was a nice lady but she was ban happy like nobody's business. So, I always feel like it's excessive.

Also, asking for a toe picture and she sends a knee picture, it sounds like you pissed her off 'somehow'.

I asked for something intentionally easy. so... I dunno

 

[Marceline]

isn't that the very definition of scamming? ban the guy to avoid doing xyz, or bringing up some half truth as reason to ban the guy?

If it's impossible to communicate, and I'm out of pocket tokens/cash, and without what I requested, that's a problem.

I think you're misunderstanding the phrase "out of pocket".

a person acting unnaturally or in a wild, inappropriate way

Not out of tokens in this context lol

What Amber said, haha!

But to answer your questions:

If someone is out of tokens and they didn’t or haven’t tipped, then no communication from the model is owed and they can ban at their own discretion with or without a reason for it. That’s not scamming.

If someone tips for a certain act or service that was agreed upon (whether through communication or because it was a tip menu item) and bans right afterwards, depending on the circumstance, it could be scamming. Like, if she agreed to do something and had absolutely no intention on delivering and planned to ban right after getting tipped, that’s not cool. If the member tips and along with the tip says something out of pocket (i.e crazy, wild, inappropriate) that really bothers the model, I don’t think it’s scamming if the member gets banned. It’d be like buying a movie ticket and then as soon as you enter the theatre you start yelling at the concession stand employee. You’ll be kicked out, and your ticket won’t be refunded.

When I brought up mental health, it was in reference to members who are always getting “scammed” or more specifically, love conned. Sorry not sorry, but I think if someone is lonely/vulnerable enough to where they go on cam sites and fall for the “I love you bb, plz send me thousands for x, y and z so we can be together”, especially when they intentionally go on cam sites to try dating models, they need counseling. That’s not a dig or an insult. The majority of mentally healthy people will not fall for that and they use adult sites for their intended purpose, sexy entertainment. I’m not condoning love scams, but people also need to take responsibility for their own actions and the best way to do that is to go to therapy to find the root cause of what caused that behavior.

The only thing that annoys me is the "Oh I'm so shy, however if you send me 10,000 tokens I'll DP for you in private" act.
1) You're clearly not shy
2) 10,000 tokens... :O

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this. There’s certain acts that most models don’t like doing, but for the right amount they’ll do it. For example, I don’t like doing penetration/dildo riding. However, I’m open to it for the right price. I have a guy who gets the occasional exclusive custom from me, and for one of them he wanted a long dildo riding scene. I charged him a couple hundred on top of my exclusive custom prices and in the end, I made about $1k from that custom. He was happy with it and came back and got another custom from me. Why? Because he knows that’s not something I usually do and so his custom was special.

Also, 10k tokens (so $500 for the model) isn’t really too abnormal for a DP show. DP in general is rough on your body. A lot of models don’t even like doing anal or offer it. I’m sure for most models, they’re going to be pretty spent after a DP show (especially if it was a longer private/public show) and won’t want to cam anymore for the day after that. So, she has to make sure that the she makes enough from that show to cover the loss of income from not being able to cam/do penetration shows for the rest of the day.

Maybe I'll start a podcast bringing broadcaster and viewers together to resolve 'scams'.

I’d legit start a Dear Abby type show where members and models can send in stories and ask for advice. I mean, I’ve already been writing novels of advice in threads like that for years anyway, haha.

 

[Vixxen81]

t may surprise you, but I haven't been banned

Not surprised at all. Models have vastly different criteria for why they ban people and trust me, it takes but a milisecond to ban someone. I banned a guy last night one second after he entered the room because his user name was absolutely filthy and I felt like if a grown ass man could input that and hit submit nothing good could come from his fingertips.

I had a fan club member who tried to test me with a second account. I banned the second account. He messaged me on OF asking why his main account was banned. Except I had not banned his main account. When I clicked on "clear hidden bans and silences" on my end both accounts were allowed back into the room. Because it's an IP ban, not a person ban.

 

[Iluvablow69]

It was more going from shy to doing that act haha (Also, I didn't ask for it, she offered it haha)
People can do what they want, but I am not sending anyone a 10,000 token pre-private tip the first time I meet them.


Also, I need to make a reminder never to get into an argument with @Marceline
I don't think it would end well for me.
I don't know what your background is, but damn! You can write haha
Numbers are my friend, not words.

 

[Iluvablow69]

Models have vastly different criteria for why they ban people and trust me

You've got that right haha



And then I was banned...

 

[Skaar_the_Savage]

If someone tips for a certain act or service that was agreed upon (whether through communication or because it was a tip menu item) and bans right afterwards, depending on the circumstance, it could be scamming. Like, if she agreed to do something and had absolutely no intention on delivering and planned to ban right after getting tipped, that’s not cool.

Ok, if the menu price was 100 tokens and I paid 1000? consensus is that generally, you should not expect to get banned after tipping?

When I ban someone with multiple accounts, all of their accounts are immediately banned as well. If they create a new account, that account is not automatically banned from my room just because I banned the existing accounts previously or because someone buys tokens. If this has changed I want screen shots of it.

You are essentially banning the payment information and any accounts that used that payment information recently.

you pissed her off 'somehow'.
This is just your side of the story.

Her mod was banning ppl. Her friend or admin I think was adding users to her permanent ban list. How or why her mod or friend would have me on a ban list? Because they didn't like mixing users.
So, probably one of those scenarios.

That's my theory. which again, I still feel like that's also a scam if someone else interfering.
I asked and never got a clear answers.
I know I got banned doing absolutely nothing more than once. LIke literally not doing or saying anything.

 

[MarieElise]

This thread is turning into a personal bitch fest already, and it's a thread about how we (as models) don't want to have to deal with that in our off time. Uuugh

I'm gonna be blunt here; it's not the job of other models to provide you explanations of why you got into trouble with a whole different model. Can you guys like start your own group therapy group message thread or something? This is just more unpaid work for us...

Several of us have already made it really clear that we don't want to deal with that shit, and have already put enough energy and time into it on this forum. C'mon ... Does Marceline really need to spend her off time breaking down the complete most simple concepts and basics for you all? Go tip her already Yes, she is eloquent and kind, and does a wonderful job, but is it really fair to drain on her like this? I call that taking advantage and imposing.

Why are any of your personal gripes and past experiences relevant here? To this thread? When we already said we are over it. If you want extra unpaid attention from cam models in our off time, be amusing, entertaining or helpful. Don't be endless drains, and whiners.